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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Just like to remark that it is impressive to see people risking their lives to acquire what I, and most of you were born with, Freedom.
Those Iraqis walked into the voting places as a downtrodden, terribly mistreated and cheated bunch of ordinary people, threatened with their life by a group of thugs who openly derided the freedom to vote. Those thugs, numbering in the thousands were trumped by voters numbering in the millions.
Al Zaquairi (shithead) is faced with the old dilemma, if you have a machine gun and millions and millions of enemy march at you who can reproduce faster than you can machine gun, you better grasp your ass and head for higher ground. Good bye, Al Zaquairi, Hello freedom.
The big joke is that only Al Zaquiari is the subject of a dictator, the Iraqis are FREE. HE is the stupid asshole.
Bailey |
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Location: Central Oregon | Very well put Bailey. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | "Just like to remark that it is impressive to see people risking their lives to acquire what I, and most of you were born with, Freedom"
I'm more concerned with our troops that are over risking their lives. |
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Location: SoCal | We're all concerned with our troops. But there has to be a balance regarding the importance of the mission. If we were only concerned with our troops, we would never have gotten involved in WWII. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I can't say that I understand the comparison to WWII. That war was a global conflict which threatened the world. Not to mention the fact that we were attacked by Japan.
This war is about us invading another country because Bush needed someone to punish for 9/11. Do you really think that Bush gives a crap if the Iraqis (who danced in the streets on 9/11) have a democracy? |
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Location: SoCal | Yeah, I do think that. Take a look at this. Gives a little history of what's going on.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/markalexander/ma20050128.shtml
But then who cares about history, or safety. Bush is obviously just doing this to get his rocks off. Oh, sorry, that was Clinton who was big into that. |
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Location: NJ | A very worthwhile read:
Banking On Baghdad
. . . . and I'll leave it at that. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Hey Moody. I'm betting that you didn't get that article from the New York Times, huh ;)
Let's just agree to disagree.
John |
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Location: SoCal | We can do that. And I agree with your comments on different guitars, different sounds, different purposes. What Martins do you own?
What NY Times article? |
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Location: Corvallis, OR | Yes, Moody makes an interesting statement. He uses the phrases " our troops, " and "the mission."
Unfortunatley, he leaves out what he means by "our troops," and "the mission." In WW11, the mission was shared by all Americans,but in Iraq, the mission is NOT shared by all Americans. Only the Pentagon and the conservative machine keep the myth alive.
And what IS the mission ???
Is it to reveal weapons of mass destruction ? There arent any - remember ?
Is the mission to give democracy to a down trodden country? Then we should have invaded Libya or North Korea a long time ago- they have needed it more for a long,long time.
Is the mission to protect the common man from some country's murderous dictator? If so, we should have intervened in the Sudan, where over 50,000 people died of starvation and military brutality in the same time it took Saddam to gas 5000 Kurds.
Is the mission to restore free elections? Then why havent we invaded Communist China (to name one of about twenty) a long, long time ago ?
Is the mission to root out and destroy terrorists? Then we should have invaded Libya a long time ago. They have admitted to harboring terrorist camps, and have admitted responsibility for blowing up an airliner. (remember that ?)
Is the mission to attack the people responsible for 911? Then why didnt we attack Saudi Arabia? War mongers ignore the fact that MOST of the 911 hi-jackers were from Saudi Arabia. NONE of them came from Iraq. None !
The administration keeps changing it's reasons for being there. What is the mission?
Most of the countries mentioned above (Communist China, Libya, North Korea,The Sudan area in Africa) have no plentiful supplies of oil for us. Its true, that Saudi Arabia supplied most of the 911 murderers, but we already have some nice contracts with them to supply us with oil.
The bravery of our troops is not connected to the motivations of the administration. These are two different discussions, and it's time the administration started discussing the reasons for "the mission" . |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Oh man! First politics, now Martins? We're gonna get ourselves kicked out of here :D
I have a DC1E, which is basically a electric cutaway version of a D1. I also have a 000C-16GTE which is an auditorium sized guitar which is very comfortable to play. It's actually fairly similar in size to an Ovation.
My Martins are not the fanciest models but they are very reliable, great playing guitars. I was going to pull the trigger on a nice D-28, but at that price, I'd be afraid to take the thing out on a gig. |
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Location: NJ | WHY do we always "go here"??!!!
This thread's Topic was entitled:
". . Iraqi elections, No politics allowed . ."
Sorry Bailey, but that in itself is a flagrant oxymoron, and I don't see how you can have one without the other . . . . |
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Location: Upper Left USA | It's all about choice. choose your guitar, your Leaders or your god.
It's good to have choice, period. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I'm with you Bailey! |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Personally, I don't see why the occasional political discussion is frowned upon, provided everyone is respectful of one anohter. From my experience, the people on this board seem like likeable, intelligent people and I'm interested in what you all think about important issues.
Apparently, at least some of you agree since the "political" threads seem to take off pretty quickly.
Just my opinion. |
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Location: SoCal | Hey 4fingers, read the column I posted, then we'll talk. Not everybody supported our involvment in WWII. There was radical decension (sp?) even back then.
After you've read the article, take a note from John B (and maybe from me) and we'll steer this conversation back to guitars.
John, I've played some damned fine Martins in all price ranges. Sometimes I've been impressed and sometimes not. And I don't think I've ever played a bad Larivee. I like those guitars. Our lead player at church plays a Larivee. Beautiful acoustically or plugged in. |
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Location: Midland, MI | I used to follow politics and policy avidly, but then I realized what was being presented in the media was not the reality of what was going on.
There's a marvelous quote from Pynchon's 'Gravity's Rainbow' that covers American politics quite nicely:
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers.
And that's all I'm going to say about that.
Play on! |
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Location: SoCal | Sorry, I support Bailey on this...yes, this is a guitar forum but it is also the only forum many of us participate in.
Late at night in New Mexico, with coyotes howling and crickets chirping, he should be able to make a non-political statement. Take it or leave it - I accept it as non-political. It is a major moment in history. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Moody:
I agree about the Laravee. My friend brought one over a couple of months ago and I was very impressed with it. The sound was excellent and the fit and finish was incredible, especially since it was not even a real high end model. I would certainly consider buying one. |
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Location: NJ | I look at this post. I leave for the post office, I come back log on and find 16 responses.
there are places for politics and it is not the ofc.
there is a big difference between patriotism and nationalism and remember that here in the USA we can barely get 60% of our FREE people to vote.
PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME LOCK THIS THREAD!!
I thought to myself maybe if I just ignore this post it will go away but NOOOOOOOOOOO (in my best john belushi voice) the usual suspects get going on their adgendas. Great take it to a political forum not here. |
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Location: SoCal | Hey, John and I are talking guitars here.... |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Are there any Russian made guitars? |
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Location: SoCal | I had traded Jon for a great Larrivee OM model, KOA back and sides, bear claw top...was very impressed.
However, didn't think twice when trading it to W-2 for one of his 1537's.
As to my Martin D-25K2, it is a keeper although not played much as I always seem to pick up a round bowl. |
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Location: Isle of Man, UK | **definately not political - just an observation**
I'm in awe of those risking their very lives to vote, as much as I respect those who are fighting to give them that right.
Now, given that it is well known that the nationals are indeed risking their lives to vote, could no-one in the developed world have thought of something better than inking a finger with purple ink after they've voted?? I appreciate that proper measures need to be taken to keep the vote clean and proper, but isn't this singling out those who did vote for harm?
Any better ideas anyone? I have to confess, I haven't thought of anything better so far today...
JB |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | So Alpep,
Do you at least get an echo when you talk to a wall? |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I can't wait to try the new 2005 collectors, back to guitars please. :D |
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| There are Russian guitars. They are the worst guitars in the world. Interestingly Fender Custom Shop's top top man is a Russian emigre who first got a job packing guitars at Washburn when he arrived. He ended up building most of the Washburn Signature guitars (including Dimebags) before Fender lured him away with sunshine and money.
Not a mention of politics. I have nearly bitten my tongue off. On the up side my wife thought Moody was rather good looking when she saw the pics on his posting - I won't mention the politics to her. |
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Location: SE Michigan | I have been in the thick of some heated political threads on this forum before, and I'll ask the same question again: What's the harm? If people want to talk a little politics what is the harm? Many forums would love to have any response, 26 responses means people are reading and responding to this forum, isn't that a good thing?
And I will say again the internet is the town square of our era, we owe it to our children to speak out. People are dying for the cause of freedom and we are freaking out because our guitar web forum is talking a little politics. Are we Americans here or what? The really scary thing is when people stop talking politics and issues. Then we've become a bunch of apathetic couch potatos mindlessly strumming our six strings. Then we have reason to be very afraid.
And for the record, I support our miltary and the cause of freedom for the Iraqi people, but I think 4fingers nailed the point; we were sold a bill of goods and a lot of people paid a very high price for it. |
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Location: NJ | it has been the request of Miles and myself that we talk about guitars on this forum, in particular Ovation and Adamas guitars.
Personally I have seen too many friendships and businesses ruined over political BS on the web. If you want to talk politics use the phone or another forum set up for the exchange of political ideas.
Is there any part of this post that is NOT clear????????????????? |
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Location: Midland, MI | I wish it were more like a coffee shop than a town square. Then we could all play bongos and wear black turtlenecks and act like smoove, cool beatniks, daddy-o. :D
My older sister purchased an electric guitar for her oldest son. It was made in some 'Stan' country. The neck wasn't just backbowed, it was twisted. The bridge was fubar to the point where no adjustment would get you in the neighborhood of proper intonation. The tuners would slip over a short period of time (think hours, not days). I felt bad for him. Not bad enough to loan him my O or any of my 'lectrics, but...bad juju. It was almost as bad as current Gib*on and Fen*er offerings, I tell ya!
HAHAHAHA! See, a little humor with the guitar talk! ;) |
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Location: south east Michigan | For the most part, I agree with Brian T. However there is always someone who just don't know when to quit or understand the limitation of this format. Therefore, I think it's best left to a seperate section or another forum. |
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Location: Germantown, MD | Just an observation from an English teacher/writer/person who cares about language.
We're told (mostly, but not exclusively by the administration) that the election in Iraq is about freedom. It really has more to do with democracy--although I'm having a lot of trouble imagining voting in an election in which the candidates' names aren't on the ballot and I could only vote by party. Most countries, including Iraq, have had something resembling elections for some time, but as someone commented last week, "Democracy doesn't happen when you vote someone into office; it happens when you vote someone out.
Skeptical as I am about this experiment is spreading democracy by force of arms, I'd like to see the Iraqi people getting a better deal than they've gotten, but I'm afraid it's going to be a while before we can really celebrate success there.
Peace,
John
PS. Several reports I've seen indicate that the hope-raising scenes of people lining up to vote and proudly displaying their purple fingers are coming from just a few fairly well controlled areas and there's little news coming out of the rest of the country because the media aren't permitted to go there. |
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Location: SE Michigan | I'll abide by the rules Alpep, but I cant help but marvel at some of the ridiculous topics I have seen on this forum that have nothing at all to do with guitars. Some of them went on and on and on.
I cant help but wonder if the real problem is that some people dont like the opinions being expressed. I'd like to think of members of this forum as sort of an extended set of friends. It's nice to talk about what's on your mind with your friends. I hope to see you come down on all non guitar threads with equal zeal.
Maybe you should post the rules so we all can be clear about what is and is not allowed. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I sure can't wait to try the 2005 collectors! :D :D :D |
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Location: Midland, MI | Anyone have tab for the into to 'Long cool woman' so I can play it on my Elite? ;) |
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Location: NJ | If you bothered you would find it.
Privacy Act Statement
Code of Conduct, Disclaimer, and other legal mumbo-jumbo that we wish we didn't have to post.
This page is still being drafted, but until it's complete...
...use some common sence and be kind to each other.
As our community grows, it has become necessary to inform those who have recently joined, and remind those who have been around for awhile of some basic guidelines.
This board is not intended to be a forum to promote any individual agenda be it from a single person, groups, or commercial or private entity. It is a private community of Ovation enthusiasts from around the world, encompassing a variety of backgrounds, ages, and interests. All opinions and discussions are welcome without fear of censorship, with the only "rule" being to be kind to each other. When said discussions and/or opinions become disruptive and/or repetitive and degenerate into personal agenda, we reserve the right to close threads, remove posts, and ultimately suspend participation.
This is a family oriented board, and as such hurling insults will not be tolerated. The offenders will be warned once and continuation of said behavior will result in the offenders account being suspended. |
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Location: Las Vegas | Long before the "Iraqui" "elections" result in real "freedom" or real "democracy" for the Iraquis any more than the Diebold "elections" did for the American People, I will have climbed into a time machine, gone back to 1970, bought every single Ovation guitar and amp I could find, and brought them back to 1974 where I will stay till the end of my days, climbing back into said time machine at the stroke of 12 on New Years' Eve each year thereafter.
And far more likely to happen.
Les
:rolleyes: |
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Location: Midland, MI | John Titor, is that you?
:p |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | How does a thread about Irag (on a GUITAR forum) get more replies than a thread about guitars? I know they are still counting votes in Ohio, but trust me - the election is over. Nobody likes soldiers losing their lives anywhere in the world ... or citizens losing theirs. There is no right/wrong on this one - only opinions. Personally I'd rather play my guitar and leave the politics up to my elected officials. Dave |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Look what you've started Bailey! I bet there are a bunch of OFC members walking around with swollen lips after today. I know I have bitten mine several times. |
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Location: SoCal | I like this group of people. There were opinions expressed and nobody got bent out of shape, nobody got personal and nobody got hurt. And there were even some guitars discussed. Anybody realize how rare this thread is? In a world where people yell and call names just because they disagree, that never happened here.
I'm proud to be a part of this board. |
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Location: SoCal | well, it was kinda boring yesterday... |
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Location: SE Michigan | We need the Bush administartion to invade the OFC and free the oppressed masses yearning to speak freely and vote! yes vote! WE NEED FREE ELECTIONS OF OUR FORUM ADMINISTRATORS!!!
Long have the Elitest multi-holed slot-headed deep-bowl minority imposed their will on the unrepresented center-hole loving majority!
For years we have played only the guitars they allow, we go into the shops and see only the models they approve of! No MORE!! DOWN WITH SUPPRESSION OF FREE GUITAR EXPRESSION!!
Help us George W., Those new funny shaped bowls are actually plutonium enrichmant chambers, The new gradphite rods in the LX neck are parts for a missle launch system! Don't wait for the smoking gun! Invade now! Don't wait for the mushroom cloud! |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | How about the 2005 collectors new bowl design? Is that cool are what? :D :D :D |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Paul,
It like that echo off the wall Miles was talkin 'bout :eek: :eek: :eek:
I can only hear the sounds of my 1537........
Stephen |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | As has been stated, sometimes other discussions that are not political or religious in nature don't get asked to be ceased as much as political or relgious ones do. Good point, but as the other topics are not as passionate, they usually defuse on their own quick enough. As the admin I "pick my battles" as it were. Although some topics are not about Ovation guitars, they aren't worth really making a fuss about. A stray from the centerline is a fun distraction sometimes and I don't have a problem with that. I particularly find political and religious discussions the most dangerous with regard to online forums and friendships in general. Just because we have a common interest and attitude towards guitars and many other aspects in life, don't think for a minute that we are even remotely similar in our politcal and religous beliefs.
The fact that those that participate in the conversations already know how Al and I feel about it, yet still continue, I can only regard this as a complete lack of respect for not only myself and Al, but to the people who do respect our wishes.
The Terms of Serice boil down to a simple request from Al and I. Be kind to each other, and stay away from any agenda's. I don't think that's a lot to ask... but, maybe it is. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Well said Miles, now back to guitars! |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Great Opinions
We all have them
Iraqis are close to being able to express theirs.
We have been able to express ours for over 200 years.
Many, many U. S. soldiers have died for that, even in my limited lifetime (I was born in 1935), I volunteered for Korea but didn't have to go, many others had already went and died. Almost everybody we knew in the early 40's had a friend, relative, loved one who died in WWII, and we thanked them when we saw Aushwits, Viet Nam was the first war where Americans shouted for more soldiers to die so they could get political power and had the gall to call those who died from Canada where they deserted "baby killers". Now our soldier volunteers have to hear "Americans" hoping for more casualties so they can get elected from their safe homes here where the terrorists have been shut out by our troops in Afganistan and Iraq.
If Carter had not had the amnesty the people who are now cheering for the "insurgents" would have been serving sentences for desertion in time of war instead of crowing from their safe positions in the media.
In he 18th century it wasn't unusual to run a totally corrupt traitor out of town on a rail with some tar and feathers and maybe a little horse whipping, that was a little extreme, but gloating on the death of soldiers for the hope of getting votes or glory is the other extreme.
I would suggest that those of you who think our soldiers are wrong in shooting "insurgents" go over their and reason with them in their little houses where they cut of "infidels" heads. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Alright, obviously there are many people on the board who wish to discuss things other than guitars. If the administrators of this board are against that, then we should respect their wishes. If anyone is interested, I can set up a little discussion board for those of you who want to talk about "non guitar" issues.
If you're interested, e-mail me and I will set something up. Hopefully this will make everyone happy.
John
bruggy66@yahoo.com |
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Location: SoCal | Miles, you're just now figuring out that we have no respect for you and Al????
I like this place. It's one of the few clubs that I want to belong to. I mean, why would I want to be a member of any club that would have me?
Rimshot...... |
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Location: Houston, TX | I played the new 05 Collector's on Saturday. The contour is a nice feature and a pertinent advance. Good balanced sound. This may seem weird, but it kinda seemed too light. Hard to get used to. So I bought a Roland GR-20 guitar synth instead. |
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Location: SoCal | Light? Weight? That's part of the point. Ovations have always been heavy guitars, with the KBar and bowl. The LX's are lighter in weight. Easier to wear on a strap and they vibrate better. That contoured bowl was tuned in it's design. |
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Location: Converse, Texas | So, when I get my Collectors 2005, I'd like to play Long Cool Woman... Anyone have the tab? It was asked yesterday. |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | Hizz...
try this:
Long Cool Woman Tabs |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I think it is really important not to have politispoo discussions here since they always seem to be contriversial. I for one, don't want affend ennybuddy again. If we are going to have a politspoo subject then maybe they could be a little more understanding of all the wrong views that seem to be heald by so many. Look at it this way, at least half the people think the other half are full of it so it is important that we be tollerant of that. If there weren't people who were wrong then the right ones wouldn't look so brillient, wood they? Hell, you have to have Taylors to appreciate other guitars. |
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Location: Tampa, FL | Originally posted by cwk2:
Hell, you have to have Taylors to appreciate other guitars.
CW, you are one big reason my work productivity is way down since I took up with this gang of miscreants. Gotta love a sense-o-humor. |
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Location: Central Oregon | I don't think that's quite right. I've never had a Taylor & I appreciate my other guitars just fine :) |
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Location: Converse, Texas | chatman: Where in Tampa are you? I'll be visitng there this month. |
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Location: Tampa, FL | I'm actually just north of the University of South Florida in an area known as Lutz. Lutz is the remnant one big orange grove north of Tampa. I'd sure like to meet. One of the more interesting venues in town is Skipper's Smokehouse. Let me know the days you'll be in town and roughly where you'll be, I can let you know what our choices are. I do not think I am traveling this month (if I do it would be the week of the 14th). |
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Iraqi elections, No politics allowed