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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Was looking for some new cables (mic, etc.) and saw that Monster brand has guitar cables suited to music genres-ie rock, jazz, etc.
They have an acoustic guitar cable ($80 for 20ft! OUCH!) designed to add warmth to piezo pickups and transfer the nuances of the guitar...yadda, yadda, yadda...
Sounds like B.S. to me, but not being a tech head, what do I know. Can a cable change sound that dramatically? I believe a good cable is a great investment and can improve sound over a cheapy, but $80 worth? At that price, if it's not going to do my laundry too...
Just wondered if anyone has one or checked em out, or can shed some light I'd love to know more...they are a big name in cables. Input?
Johnny |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I really wonder if you could tell the difference with your eyes closed. |
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Location: NJ | Well, . . you'd be able to feel that your wallet's a little thinner. . . .
I've got a couple of Monster cables, and I really like 'em . . . very dependable. Haven't seen these "custom-tailored for acoustic/electrics" though . . .
Probably some gimmick with the shielding . . .
". . . At that price, if it's not going to do my laundry too... . ."
- for $80, it should be giving me a good reason for having my laundry DONE . . |
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Location: SE Michigan | It depends on the overtone you desire. For example, cables made with "Brazilian Copper" favor the darker bass side of the spectrum. Cables with Adirondack or Austrian plastic on the insulating sheaths enhance sustain. Some cables even contain fossilized mammoth dung as a dielectric spacer between the jack tip and shield, these are preferred by finger-style players. |
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Location: Midland, MI | I would be surprised if you could tell the difference, but then I've been known to not be terribly disciminating. :)
That being said, I won't buy anything Monster Cables makes with the whole lawsuit-as-business-model thing they have going (Google is your friend). I won't support it. But, that's just me. |
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Location: south east Michigan | It depends on the overtone you desire. For example, cables made with "Brazilian Copper" favor the darker bass side of the spectrum. Cables with Adirondack or Austrian plastic on the insulating sheaths enhance sustain. Some cables even contain fossilized mammoth dung as a dielectric spacer between the jack tip and shield, these are preferred by finger-style players.
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There is always a grain of truth in humor.
That is the funniest thing I have read here in a long time. :D |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Remember, the Emperor really liked his new clothes, too! :rolleyes:
Wayne |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Brian,
Don't forget "Tinned Copper" cables. They bring out the bright side of the sound spectrum. |
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Location: SoCal | Brian,
Can you give us the pros and "cons" on:
:p hand soldered vs. machine soldered connections
:eek: long grain copper conductors vs. short grain
:rolleyes: oxygen free copper vs. "oxygenated?"
:) Self Shielding Counter-Spiral Hyperlitz geometry vs. the standard foil and braid shielding |
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Location: Midland, MI | And then cover the benefits of cryogenic treatment of steel guitar strings. |
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Location: SE Michigan | The very best tonally responsive copper is "free range copper". This type of copper is only harvested in it's natural state, when found laying on the ground. You see mining copper with huge machinery drives out the free radical valiance electrons which give free range copper it's pure harmonic tap tone. You can actually pick up a piece of free range copper and tap it with a hammer and hear it's natural harmonics. Mined copper sounds weaker when tapped because the free electrons have been traumitized by the in-humane mining process. Some people claim that placing mined copper in front of speakers and playing Devo records repeatedly at max volume can restore some of the free valance electrons and result in a purer tap tone. But I think it's best to demand the real thing when buying a cable, pure book-matched free range copper.
Also most people agree you have to actually play the cable before buying, ideally several different cables, with a friend across the room who can comment on the quality of the harmonic overtones. Compare cables of different color and length before buying, and dont forget to get a cable humidifier to keep your cable from cracking. |
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Location: NW NJ | Brian - I haven't laughed that hard in weeks :D |
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Location: Waurika OK | Got to get Brian and Bailey get in the same room with two computers networked. Give em' a topic and stand back, way back.
Pegleg Dog Hopkins |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | xnoel
No use!!
I am speechless when confronted with such deep and insightful, scientific, dubious, deeply opinionated, well researched, mentally challenging (challenged?), revelations of historic significance and miniscule social relevance. I just have a deep desire to buy one of those cables and plug it into my voice box (swallow it?) and hear those beautiful stentorian tones that should sound like the three Irish tenors harmonizing on "The Rose of Tralee" if it works like it should.
Why waste that kind of technology on a guitar when the real money is in singing.
Hurrah for free range copper, and I'm sure they have doped it with a small dab of anti-krypton to preserve the Super Man singing syndrone, where you blast your neighbors windows out on the high notes.
Bailey :rolleyes: |
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Location: SoCal | I often stay up past my bedtime watching old westerns (currently Mountain Men) to see what Bailey will post as he waxes eloquent...
;) :p ;) |
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| Ohhhhh....... My God! ????? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | How does all this effect my Nday wireless system? I only use free range duracells in that. |
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Location: SE Michigan | Sadly, some cablers still compromise ethics and dope free range copper with antikryptonite, some people will do anything for money. But buyers need to be aware that under the CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species), even the artist can be fined for merely possessing a cable containing doped copper.
A friend of mine had a show at Yellowstone Lodge. There was a Ranger in the audience who caught a glint of the tell-tale maize-umber color that is reflected by doped copper. Next thing he knows my buddy is in hand-cuffs, thrown in the back of a van and jailed in nearby Bozeman Montana. His cable was cut into tiny pieces, and some over-zealous Green Peace workers actually poked their fingers through the cones of his PA speakers. It took fourteen months and over seven grand in fees and fines for him to finally regain his freedom. Dont risk it man, good sound just aint worth the price.
But if you really want the pure, undoped, ring of free range copper, Behringer has a new cable-modeler pre-amp. It uses 24 bit digital signaling to actually duplicate (more-or-less) the sounds of sixteen classic cables. I havn't tried it yet but I am told it comes pretty close to the real thing, at least for studio use. My buddy (now reformed) uses one and really likes the Jimmy Hendrix melted-rubber with lighter fluid highlights setting. He also said that the Jan and Dean corroded sea-salt setting really recaptures the buzz and crackle of that time. |
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Location: Vermont USA | And I thought I was crazy. Some of you must live near area 51 :eek: I cant wait till the factory tour and meet you all.
Paul (Sleepy Harp Hopkins) |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | All craziness aside............
I use Monster cables for some of the hookups between the various components of my home studio.
Here's why.....
Monster has a no questions asked guarantee on their cables. I have cut their cables up and modified them....then decided I screwed up. No problem...take them back to the local ProSound guitar store and they give me brand new ones...EVEN THOUGH I PURPOSELY CUT THE OLD ONES UP!!
Today, I carried in a couple of 2 meter cords because I decided they were too short. Nothing wrong with the cables...just too short.
The store immediately credited me the cost of the 2 meter cables (no receipt required) and upgraded me to brand new 3 meter cables for a whopping $5 each, which was the difference in cost between the two.
Sometimes paying a little higher price for cables, regardless of the hype, is a good thing!
Stephen |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Cutting up expensive cables isn't "craziness aside"? Then swindling your honest and poverty stricken vendor, WELLL, I'll take honest insanity over blatant unfettered destruction of equipment. REPENT YOU OVATONICALLY CHALLENGED SINNER!!!
I would cuss you out if I could get this Monster cable out of my throat, as long as it is there my cusses sound like "The Wearing of the Green" as done by the Three Tenors. I was right, IT WORKED!!! |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Of course it is not crazy when you know you can replace it for FREE! (which obviously adds to the higher cost to begin with ;)
Stephen |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Stephen
Your soul is destined for purgatory, buy five guitars from Al and say over and over, "I will never again cheat my local guitar store unless I can get away with it." To avoid burning in hell, send $20 to each OFC member.
I will now ask for a vote from the members as to whether this form of soul cleansing should be carried out.
Members, it's $20 or nothing, please vote your conscience!! |
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Location: SoCal | Bailey,
Should the SINNER contact The Monster personally to convey every OFC member’s high regard of the Monster Guitar Cable’s sonic properties and that it is our Cable of Choice? |
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Location: SoCal | Brian,
I’m not ready for Behringer’s Cable-Modeler. Ethics is most important though. I will accept the minor loss in my high-end and pledge to only use “Dope-Free” Free Range Copper. Will I really notice the difference? When I was younger I wanted to hit higher, and higher, and higher frequencies. Now approaching 50, I realize that above a certain point, higher doesn’t matter. I hid my use of doped copper even from my wife. I was so afraid of running out... I resorted to hiding it in free range chicken egg shells in the refrigerator. Now I can go back to using my refrigerator for what I learned it was for back in high school: storing my pots and coke.
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Location: SE Michigan | My buddy tried to get Monster to replace his cable that the Federal Rangers cut into tiny pieces. It seems that there is a clause in the warranty that excludes damage resulting from war, insurection, or violation of Federal laws.
And I have nothing against a high quality cable, some of my best friends use Monster cables. But when I saw the advertisments for "bass tuned" or "acoustic tuned" cables, well, off came the gloves.
A quote from Musician Friend about the "acoustic instrument cable":
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/362001/
"Magnetic fields in ordinary cables cause frequency and phase distortions, but the patented 3-way Time Correct® windings in the Monster Acoustic Instrument Cable reject interference protecting all of your instrument's transient attack, full output, and critical overtones". (all for a reasonable $79.95)
Now my buddy suffered one hell of a transient attack at Yellowstone Lodge, and his cable just layed on the ground and didn't even attempt to help him. The time corrected windings could have merit, I guess it will allow you to go back in time (kind of like Superman) and fix that mistake you made three measures ago. I could really use this feature.
But in the interest of protecting endanged species; I am working on the first truely "acoustic cable". I mounted a brass outdoor water faucet right in the sweet spot behind the bridge of my guitar. Then I connected a garden hose that runs over to my mixer where I have soldered on another faucet. You can adjust the volume by opening or closing the valves. Keeping the guitar valve wide open and constricting the mixer valve gives great overdiven sustain. And MAN, you should hear this rig into an all-valve amp!! I found that larger 3/4 rubber hoses are better for bass and rythym, while smaller 1/2 vinyl hoses favor the treble and really cut through the mix. This is pure acoustic tone man, the way God intended it, not a hint of frequency or phase distortions.
And I and going to sell this marvel for only $69.99!! Email me if you want to purchase one of my new hose cables. |
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Location: Vermont USA | Dude talk about getting hosed. :eek:
Paul |
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Location: Tampa, FL | Brian T - Took a look at your link and was really struck by the last bullet point.
"Striking natural wood grain connector design compliments the natural wood look of most acoustic instruments"
Don't know about the rest of you, But I'm holding out for the textured Lyracord look! |
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Location: Tampa, FL | A plea for sanity...
Did a quick hack at some numbers and would appear that a 'reasonable' resonant frequency for any kind of numbers you might anticipate in coaxial type cables starts around 22 mHz and goes up from there. This is about 3 orders of magnitude above human hearing and the componenets that make up the calc would mean that I could be off by a factor of around 1 million times before you get near the human hearing range. Even factoring in the idea that you would start to notice the effects long before your frequencies of interest start to approach the human hearing range, I have difficulty believing that this hoopla makes a difference. So here's my question...
Short of truly crappy connections (bad connection or connector corrosion), can you tell a difference between cables? I think you would likely have more variation between individual channels on your mixer/amp due to component and manufacturing tolerances than you would get from different cables. But then again I have miniscule experience in the real world aspects of this and have approcahed as pretty much an intellectual exercise. So all youse guys out there with dog ears, can you really tell a difference? |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Bailey,
I am truly shamed that I have taken advantage of the implied warranty of a corporate giant.
Your check is in the mail :cool:
Stephen |
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Location: SE Michigan |  |
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Location: NJ | . . . if only the "War On Terrorism" could be fought with PhotoShop . . .
:-) |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | And we all had so much free time on our hands!
Stephen |
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Location: Upper Left USA | It amazes me how far this string has been stretched… and that I haven’t jumped in sooner!
Quick story. I attended a music seminar a couple months back. In this one class was Roby Duke, on alternate tunings. He was setting up to play a borrowed acoustic with dual pick ups and outputs – he said it was for changing out and testing different pick ups. He showed us a $200 8 footer and had to borrow a GC (not Glen Campbell) $10 special to hook up. He explained that we wouldn’t hear the difference but a sound engineer with too many dials would have a conniption!
The high dollar stuff is needed for recording, testing and long distances/low difficulties.
If you want to talk real CABLES! Have you ever had to broom out a 3 ½” wire rope to pour a speltered socket? As an Apprentice I got this job. Went to pour the socket, Shipyard Newspaper Photographer shows up – all of a sudden this apprentice is pushed out and all the senior Mechanics go to work for the photo-op! Photographer leaves and said apprentice has to put the tools away. Twenty-five years later you’d think I was over it!
:( |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | ...maybe not fought with but I'm sure it's being justified with Photoshop. |
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Location: NJ | I'd agree that the only instance that I'd spend an inordinate amount for a cable would be for a particularly long run . . . . like my PA speaker cables . . . . |
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Posts: 123
Location: Massachusetts | I've been on another forum for a few years now and Monster Cables come up all the time. Yes they do have a slight noticeable difference and tone and yes they have a lifetime warrantee but the unanimous vote is that they are built like junk and will fail.
I just did a quick browse of the archives over there and people are saying good things about:
Spectraflex
Planet Waves
George L's.
Peavey has been mentioned and they have a lifetime warrantee.
George L's are mostly pedal board cables and pricey but most people do hear the difference when using them.
Based on everything I've read I will STAY AWAY from Monster and look for Planet Waves and Spectraflex when I get my next cables and that will be soon. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Gasp, gag, gargle gargle splook splook, whoook whoook, ploopy ploopy, turg op de valb, TURG OP DE VALB LITE NOW!!! DIS IDN'T WOOKING TATALL!!
DIS HOSE TING ID NO GOOD, IT ADMUST DRANDED BE WHEN I TRAD TO TING!!!!
Whoo, I liked de Monster cable much better, TURG OFF DE VALF AGIN, I DIN SAY TURN IT ON, TURN OP DE VALB!!! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | All kidding aside, the answer to if you can hear the difference between these high-end cables and regular cables is maybe/depends.
If you have a good cable, and compare it to one of these high-end cables at the same length... maybe you will hear a difference if you are producing enough dynamics.
If you have a crappy cable, and compare it to one of these high-end cables at the same length, you most likely will hear a difference.
A few people brushed on the reasons these cables exist and the actual cable is only one part. A high quality cable should be better for long runs, should last longer, have higher quality contacts, be quieter, and reject noise a little better.
These aspects when combined can make a serious difference in sound. I have absolutely noticed the difference in longer runs of speaker and mic cables, so it only makes sence that there would be a noticable difference in guitar cables. But again, I'm not sure you would notice any difference in runs under 30 feet. At 50 feet you start to hear differences in mic and speaker cables, especially when combined with higher end gear such as subwoofers (for speakers) and condenser microphones.
I don't think I have ever tried to run anything more than a 20 ft guitar cable. |
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Monster "Acoustic" guitar cable