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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 6
Location: DeLand Florida | Hi Folks,
New member and first post. Just bought my
first Ovation (and I'm a real unhappy camper).
Its a used 1996 nylon/electric Country Artist (6773.) Its in terrific shape, top is absolutely mint. Zero dings. Couple of very minor belt buckle scratches on the back, otherwise its flawless.
With one *major* exception. The intonation is
*way* off. I should have checked closer before
I bought it (at Sam Ash in Orlando). Took it
to one of the top repair guys in Orlando and then had his findings confirmed by a good friend who's a luthier in Chicago.
After multiple checks on dimensions, it appears the bridge was installed on the top almost a 1/2 inch too far back on the top (distance from 12th fret to top of saddle is 1/2 inch too much).
Again, top is *mint* therefore it wasn't done post-manufacture or as a repair. As such, 12th fret harmonics don't come close to matching 12th fret fretted notes. All way too
flat. 12th fret fretted notes match harmonic
almost on top of *13th* fret.
And measurements and comparison of scale length,
distance from nut to 12th fret, 12th fret to where
1st string lies on top of saddle, etc. confirm misplaced bridge.
Questions for the group:
1. Any historical data re. bad bridge placement on Ovations? Its hard to believe only one bridge could have been installed incorectly at the plant. (mine is a '96, Serial No. 513206). I would think that the defect would have come up on other guitars. Otherwise, I'm *really* unlucky!
2. Needless to say, there's no warranty coverage,
but, given manufacturing defect, do you think
Ovation would entertain fixing it? Seems its a direct reflection on their quality control. (especially from Kaman, a company that manufactured Navy helicopters!)
3. Sam Ash. Any responsibility on their part
for selling a defective guitar? or is it a
classic "let the buyer beware" deal. (No matter,
I'll pull their string and see if they blink)
Regardless, I'd really like to get it fixed.
It sounds and plays great (up in first position
at least). I'm normaly a Martin and Taylor
player. Got the Ovation just to get a nylon
electric sound for that "Doyle Dykes and Buster
B. Jones" sound.
Any thoughts and advise would be appreciated.
Jim Jarrell
DeLand, Fl
JRJarrell@aol.com
www.tabpigs.org (Leo Kottke tabs from me
and and some other "pigs for tab") |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Welcome Jim!
Putting aside all the other issues, contact the factory about getting it fixed. Time after time people on this board have reported great success and satisfaction. |
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Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Assuming it's true, bring it back to where you bought it. That's like selling a car that goes only 30 miles per hour. If you bought a car like that, would you accept it? No. As for the factory, once it's sold, only the first buyer is entitled to the lifetime guarantee, but I'm sure the factory can give you a quote, but I'd be inclined to buy another one, and make sure I test it real good before it comes home. |
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Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Too strange! Did you measure the scale length ... that is from the nut to the bridge ... it should be 25.25". If not, then it is definitely misplaced. To me, that guitar sounds unplayable and should be returned for full credit.
You say the top is mint ... if the top was replaced at some point then the bridge placement could have been done at that time, not at the factory. Having seen the QA that goes on there, it is highly unlikely something that off would into the general marketplace. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I agree with all of the above. Take it back to Sam Ask first. They may do the right thing, but maybe not. If no luck there, I would call customer service at the Factory. |
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Joined:
March 2004
Posts: 201
Location: Vernon, CT | I agree wholeheartedly with what everyone has said. However, if Sam Ash is unwilling to take it back, get if fixed (for free to you) or give you your money back then I would also contact your local or state comsumer protection people. Plus, let the OFC members know how you made out. Good luck! Play On!
John L. |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 6
Location: DeLand Florida | Thanks for all responses. Great group!
All true. Only problem being, you wouldn't
buy a car to begin with that only goes 30 mph.
I feel like an idiot for not checking it closer.
I always check the intonation on guitars (12th
fret harmonic with 12th fret note) even when just
trying them out. Was "blinded by the light" on this one. Paid $629 bucks for it. Internet research told me that was a good deal. Especially given its condition (no joke...top is
*mint*)
Fully understand that. But, if it was an
original defect from the factory I'd like
to think that, regardless of warranty, they'd
at least discount cost to fix it. Not unlike
cars being recalled for a manufacturing defect.
Doesn't matter who owns them (original owner,
used car buyer, etc), problem was induced by the factory as part of initial construction process.
That seems somewhat different than a part going bad after "normal use" and an item that original owner's warrantly would cover.
Therein lies the problem, doubt I'd ever find
one that nice (bridge misplacement notwithstanding)for that price. Counter argument being fact that, regardless of condition, its not worth 10 bucks with bridge misplaced.
Scale length is dead on at 25 1/4 inches.
Luthier tells me "distance from nut to point
where 1st string contacts saddle should be
scale length plus ~ 1/16 inch. Slight variation for type/gauge of string, relief, etc etc."
Ergo, 1st string contact point should be 12 11/16 inches from 12th fret. Its 13 1/8 inches.
If you saw guitar think you'd agree the top
has never been tampered with or replaced. Its
too clean. Like out of the box. Any work of
that nature would manifest itself visually in
some fashion. Its too clean. Not sure even the
factory could replace a top and make it look that
"original".
That kind of begs to my point of whether Ovation would, for QA purposes, fix it even though I don't have warrantly coverage.
Not sure what the history of the guitar is. As a 1996 model, you'd think the issue would have come up earlier. No wonder it looks so new!! Either that or the owner(s) were novices and never left the first position (lot to be said for that!. As Chet Atkins said..."The money is in the first 3 frets")
Will do...and thanks again for all the advice.
Jim Jarrell
www.tabpigs.org
and check out fellow "pig" Bob Evans, Winfield
2003 winner, at www.bobevansguitar.com |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 234
Location: Phoenix, AZ | Originally posted by Jim Jarrell:
Not unlike
cars being recalled for a manufacturing defect.
Doesn't matter who owns them (original owner,
used car buyer, etc), problem was induced by the factory as part of initial construction process.
Don't want to rain on your parade. But, your situation is very different than an automobile manufacturer's recall. The obvious difference being that recalls are initiated by the government for the public's safety.
A search of the Ovation web site should get a dealer or dealers near you who can look at the guitar to tell if the bridge placement is correct FOR YOUR GUITAR. If there's a question or problem, they have direct access to the Factory. If there's really a problem, taking it to the closes authorized Ovation representative will save you time in getting it fixed. |
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Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I'd play out the string on what Sam Ash will do first.....THEY have responsibility for selling the guitar at this point. If they refuse to do anything, THEN I'd go to Ovation(and I'd NEVER go back to that Sam Ash).
Roger |
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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | "Scale length is dead on at 25 1/4 inches.
Luthier tells me "distance from nut to point
where 1st string contacts saddle should be
scale length plus ~ 1/16 inch. Slight variation for type/gauge of string, relief, etc etc."
Ergo, 1st string contact point should be 12 11/16 inches from 12th fret. Its 13 1/8 inches."
OK, I'm still confused. So, if the scale length is essentially correct, does that mean the fretboard is short from the nut to the 12th fret?
Again, it would be a manufacturing issue. I'm with the concensual view; start with point of purchase. |
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January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | Makes me wonder if someone replaced the neck with the wrong type. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | bingo |
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June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | I own the same guitar. Do me a favor and measure very precisely the distance from the very end of the guitar top (the end near the strap button) to the rear edge of the bridge. And also from the rear edge of the bridge to the tip of the saddle piece for the low E and high E strings. Something ain't right.
My guess is either the bridge or the top was replaced. Replacement bridges are usually a little bigger than the originals in order to cover up any marks from the original one. A new pridge could have been installed and you would never know it. Or perhaps the top was replaced. believe me, I have had the factory do some very invasive work and you would NEVER know it from the original. Those guys are incredible.
The question is how to get it fixed (assuming you can't return it). If it was me I would do the following: I would have the bridge replaced with a wider one, that would cover the "shadow" of the one that is on there now. I own a 6773 and am looking at it as I write this. I think the repar with the wider bridge would look fine.
I'm really curious how it got the way it is. I gaurentee there is no way it left the factory originally like that. I've seen what they do at final check-out and this would never slip through.
Dave |
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Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 1445
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | I agree with Dave. To the guys that do the final checks on these guitars all day long, something like this would hit them right between the eyes immediately, IF it ever got that far to begin with.
Wayne |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 6
Location: DeLand Florida | Dave asks..
(the ) to the rear
I'm somewhat challenged in the "precsion
measurement" department Dave, but my ruler shows
7 1/2 inches from back of bridge to end of
guitar (right over the white plastic border
inlay at back end of guitar body)
Its about 1 inch exactly from back edge of
the bridge to the top of saddle where low
E (6th string) contacts saddle
about 1 1/16th inches from back of bridge
to top of saddle where high E (1st string)
contacts saddle
Yeah Dave...exactly. Again nut to 12th
fret is 12 5/8 inches. Thus, scale length
is 25 1/4 inches. But, 12th fret wire to top
of saddle for first string is 13 1/8 inches.
I'm starting to agree. But whoever did the
work did one fine job. Its flawless. But
that could explain why top is absolutely
*mint* and guitar was made in '96.
< I have had the factory do some very invasive work and you would NEVER know it from the
But..if factory did the work, any chance
they could have misplaced bridge. And
btw, I would think factory would keep
record of work done and could verify.
(assuming ).
Not sure I want to return it. Not unless
the cost to fix it is totally prohibitive.
Any idea on the cost to do that and any
recommendations on who could do it?
To be honest, I'm not all that concerned
with the look (to some extent) of the repair as much as I am with the cost to repair and
getting the intonation under control which
is going to require bridge work of some sort.
I'll talk with Sam Ash salesman and see
if I can get some info on guitar's history.
Question... I assume that Ovation would know what dealer originally sold it. But as a '96, its been around awhile so it'll be hard to track.
I'm just alittle "peaked" that Sam Ash in Orlando
would sell it that way. For sure I'm at fault
for not checking, and I'm no novice, so I'm just as hacked off at myself. At 58 I've been around guitars for a long time. Only an intermediate player, but still should have checked it closer.
Again...I'm really impressed with the assist
I've gotten from this group. A standing ovation
from this old picker! ;-)
Jim Jarrell
www.tabpigs.org |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Jim,
Yeah Dave...exactly. Again nut to 12th
fret is 12 5/8 inches. Thus, scale length
is 25 1/4 inches. But, 12th fret wire to top
of saddle for first string is 13 1/8 inches.
Have you measured from nut to saddle? Sounds like the nut to 12th fret is right on with scale length. Get out a tape measure and do the nut to saddle and you may find the answer there. If everything is consistent, you should come up with 25.75" which would indicate bad bridge placement. |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 6
Location: DeLand Florida | Nut to saddle is 25 11/16ths...or
just 1/16th short of 25.75 inches.
Given fact that scale length should
be 25.25, it looks like bridge is
about .50 inches too far back.
And as would result, the 12th
fret harmonic and 12th fret fretted
notes don't match. About .50
inches off. Flat.
Jim |
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Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Ouch. Oh well, at least the problem is identified. Now it's just a matter of getting it fixed. Back to Sam Ash, I'd say. And it may be that this one will not be the one you end up with ... there are enough of them out there, and folks here will keep an eye out for one for you. Let us know how it all turns out. |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Jim, Guess what. Your bridge is in the wrong place! I've got my 6773 laying on my lap right now and it's 7-7/8 from edge of bridge to edge of the top (yours is 7-1/2). I still think the top or bridge has been replaced. Does your bridge look exactly like this one:
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 6
Location: DeLand Florida | Bingo... that's it. Identical. So mine
doesn't have a bridge replacement. So
far that is. Will contact you offline
regarding. Thanks again to all. Will
post a post mortem as to final outcome.
Jim Jarrell
www.tabpigs.org |
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Ovation factory defect....bridge misplaced (?)