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Posts: 271
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida | Wanting to take the plunge for a 12 string, but usually play finger style with finger picks... I know traditionally 12's are for rhythm work, because of the symphony of tones generated by the pairs in unison and in different octaves as ALL the strings are strummed...
How hard is it to go back and fourth from regular 6 string to 12 string if I were to further my finger picking skills ???
Do you have to lengthen the stroke of each "finger" to "pick" up the 2nd string on a 12, or is there enough to cover the paired 12 string fetch ???
AB |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | listen to some leo koetki
the fingerboards are generally wider on 12 strings so you will have to get used to that. otherwise I see no problems |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | I've found it harder to learn to wear and use the fingerpicks in general than to use them on a 12. You might want to pinch the strings on the bridge to make sure they are pretty close together, it will make picking easier. |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I think if you use finger picks you should be fine. I use bare fingers so I have not been able to get much out of a 12 string that way.
There are lots of examples of finger picked 12 strings. Look at "Over the Hills & Far Away", or "Behind Blue Eyes". |
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May 2004
Posts: 295
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Leo Kottke, Ralph Towner, John McLaughlin - all took the 12-string beyond strumming rhythm chords. I pick single notes on my 12, but I use a non-flexible flat pick (Jim Dunlop Jazz III).
For me, it does take a bit of practise to stroke the paired strings properly; that may be because I don't play it enough. It's worth the effort; a picked (as opposed to strummed) 12-string, whether using finger picks or a flat pick, is a beautiful sound. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | I use a flatpick and fingers and get a good sound out of a 12 when fingerpicking. When flatpicking single note stuff, I've found that I've got to keep the pick very perpendicular to the strings in order to catch both strings. |
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Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i also like to flat pick a 12 string, because you can get distinctly different sounds on eadg by picking up or down and by changing the attack. (same for the b-e if you are bad at tuning).
maybe i have never found the right finger picks but i have always found it tough if not impossible for me to pick up with a thumb pick and down with the finger picks. |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Russ, I agree. I am just now getting to where I'm comfortable with a thumb pick, but I had to sand off the point so it's almost like my thumb playing the note. I keep working on getting the fingers and am half way there but..... I just keep going back to all fingers and stay on 6 strings. |
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Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | lots of musicians here that play nylon strings build up their fingernails with what are often combinations of different glues and papers. they look like you should be taking a prescription to cure the problem.
ovation used to make josh white's fingernails didn't they cwk2?
i can see how a little modification of the thumb pick could help, but the hook in the finger picks made me give up. every year or so i put a set on and in about 5 min they go back in the unused relics box till the next time.
the kind of music we play would bury a good finger picker anyway. "i met a gin soaked bar room queen in memphis" tink chinng chinng.
hmmmmm |
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Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | I have a bad habit of picking at my fingernails. Having said that, when I let my nails grow a bit, I find that even when I'm picking with the edge of my right hand fingers, not with the nail, but with the meat, having the nail behind the flesh gives me the tone I'm looking for. When I grow the nails longer and try to play with the nails, it just doesn't work for me.
When, in nervous habit (usually sitting in traffic and not thinking), I pick the nails way back, the sound I get when playing is not what I want. So for me, it's short nails behind the edge of the finger that works. |
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Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i finger pick like you paul on the synth guitars where you can do allot with the signal no matter how the string is picked. i find myself playing with a very light touch. it can be a calming almost etherial feeling compared to chunking away at a gig.
on an acoustic that sharp clear sound you get with a pick or your own choice of a hard edge against the string always has me coming back to a pick for playing an acoustic on stage. at home i do both.
we have had a really good musician sitting in with us for the last year (jay donnelan from LOVE in the 60's). he uses a pick and uses the remaining three fingers to add flavor. |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Fingernails. Ed Gerhard's web site discusses this extensively and I can endorse his method.
First, my nails are strong and I don't pick or bite them. But the index and middle(to some degree) wear down when I use a pick. I put a coat of super glue on and when it's wet dip the nail into this little jar of acrylic powder. It hardens to the touch right away and in 30-60 minutes you can use a nail sander to get it smooth (Ed sells these too, and the powder)
I agree with you Moody that the nail just as a pick it a bit awkward but the combination of the meat of the finger finished up with a nail hit gives the best sound.
Also if you break a nail you can glue them back together and go from there. |
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February 2002
Posts: 613
Location: Zion, Illinois | I picked up a DVD from Homespun about fingerpicking 12-strings. It is by Chris Proctor and is very interesting. It is called "Techniques for Comtemporary 12-string Guitar" if anyone is interested. |
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August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | Speaking of Fingerpicks, these are the only one I use, both for guitar (6&12) and banjo... they are great!
Alaska Pik |
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Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | Tim,
I tried these and they are the best yet. However, unlike W-2 I have those wimpy, soft nails that bend backwards when they get 1/8" long. I have to keep them cut with little to "anchor" the picks. I will inquire about some nail build up techniques.
Maybe a good manicure is what I need! Then an exfoliation and a back massage. Yeah, that's the answer! :rolleyes: |
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December 2002
Posts: 939
Location: Fort Worth, Texas | I do the same thing Paul M. I try to grow my fingernails long and end up tearing them up and then chewing them off. I just never could get used to fingerpicks, I use the "meat" of my fingers, but they'll get sore after a couple of intensive fingerpicking songs.
:(
I fingerpick my Pacemaker just sitting around alone or picking with friends, haven't worked it into any songs on stage. It makes for a great sound to do some basic Travis picking on a 12-string while a 6-string guitar does rythm or lead, then throw in some mando.... :) |
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Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | Woody,
Try some Gorilla Snot between the AlaskaPiks and your nails... might work... |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Actually, a liberal application of REAL gorilla snot to your fingertips will help tremendously . . . it'll keep you from biting your nails!!! :p |
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Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | Thanks Cliff, I am awake now.
One litmus test for 12 strings when shopping/tasting is whether or not I can fingerpick the 12.
So far, only Ovations have passed the test for me. With bare fingers it may lack somewhat in volume but the control and technique is better.
The 12 is mostly used for rythym but do not limit it to that. These O's have the potential for a lot of virtuosity.
I like the idea of "pinching thestrings at the nut. Will that still work when the octave string is strung under the main string? |
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March 2002
Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | With Big Blue, volume has never been a problem. |
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March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | Originally posted by Tim Chapman:
Speaking of Fingerpicks, these are the only one I use, both for guitar (6&12) and banjo... they are great!
Alaska Pik
tim, i have never seen these before. this might change the way i feel about fingerpicks. who is a good mailorder source? i have a sister coming down, so i should get some ordered to try. bunches garcias amigo for the tip, finger tip included. |
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August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | I order mine directly from AlaskaPik.com ... I use Small (index finger) and Medium (middle finger). I also use the brass ones for the banjo...I use a National Thumb Pick, but I have seen guitarists use the Alaska Piks on the thumb and fingers. |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Tim,
Are you hands small, medium, etc?
The site doesn't really give much sizing information so you would know what to order.
Stephen |
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August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | ...hmmmm I guess I'm a medium... about as average as one can get...
...the "Small" I use on my index finger is quite snug... a medium would fit ok, but I'd need a large for the thumb.
One thing to remember is that just like plastic thumb picks, you can adjust the fit by placing them under hot water and re-shaping them to suit your digits.
Here is another source (check out the instruction PDF):
Alaska Piks at Musician's Friend
One more nice thing about them is that you can also "down strum" with the back of your nails (like in Flamenco) and the piks don't get in the way! |
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August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | back when I was playing acoustic with a number of 6-string guitars, started playing with the plastic thumb and finger picks (even metal at times.)
still have a couple sets of the Nationals...can still find the National thumb picks but not their finger picks. |
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August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | Tony, Check this link....
Janet Davis Music
The Nationals have just been re-produced (see the first listing). |
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August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Tim,
Unfortunately, the metal was reissued, not the plastic...however, ordered some plastic and metal, even a set of Alaskan to give them a try.
You deserve a discount there...found some other things for my Christmas shopping. |
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August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | Tony,
All I want is to be first in line to play the Banj-"O" when they finally admit to creating one! :D :D |
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February 2004
Posts: 171
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma | As for fingerpicking a 12... I first tried it when John Denver did it on Annies Song.... It took alittle time to get but Wow what a sound... I can to it with bare finger or finger picks but the finger picks deliver the crisper sound...
Gerald |
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April 2004
Posts: 265
Location: Warrenton, Virginia | For Abendicum
Good question. In my opinion and experience, it's easier to play fingerstyle with a 12 and sound good than with a six and sound good.....from my experience, one can really get some great "licks" down on the 12....the back stroke with your right hand fingers just hit the octave strings and they come back with a "ring" showing up when your hand and concept of being through...is awakened again so you do the "roll"to meet that sound or best it....it is fun....then switch real quick to the six while your right hand fingers are programed...and you will realize the "stutter"/"chicken" licks you can get or even a soft roll playing something like Imagine or Vincent.....good stuff & a good question.
regards |
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April 2004
Posts: 265
Location: Warrenton, Virginia | personally.... recommend you throw away the picks for your fingers and grow nails....better control and sound.....in my opinion |
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August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | When I played Classical exclusively, I used only my fingernails as is required. After switching to steel stringed guitars and playing with others who use a flat pick strumming style, my fingerpicking was getting lost by their volume.
I also found that, for some reason, my hands were taking a beating and the fingernails were getting broken regularly by outdoor hand work.
Then, along comes Alaska Pik... same feel, same attack, same nuances as my fingernails, but without the worry of nail breakage/weardown that I had before.
If different guitar models are "all ice cream" as our Resident Sage has stated, then perhaps AlaskaPik fingerpicks are the "sprinkles" on top :D |
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June 2004
Posts: 271
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida | Thanks to ALL ...
AB |
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March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | thanks tim, i'll be sure to try these alaska pics out. |
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Joined:
June 2004
Posts: 271
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida | I got the 12 string and I can finger pick it with or without the pics... makes know difference to me...Sound is muted a bit w/o pics but you can "brighten" up the sound, if you "plug in"... and play with the settings of the amp and pre-amp...
AB |
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12 String Finger Picking ???