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Location: SoCal | 
Adamas |
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| wow, there is another red one here:
http://www.geocities.com/eliasargyris/1187.html |
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Location: Midland, MI | I really like those red Adamas (Adamii?). Just something about them. Nice one! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Tony - you need to thatch ;) It is beautiful, isn't it!
Shar - That is a nice red one but you may want to search the archives on elias argyris before walking that path. |
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Location: NJ | Wow! . . first time I've ever seen a Slot up "on the block" . . .
Should be interesting t'see how high it'll go . . .
DAMN!! . . . I wonder what # it is . . . |
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Location: SoCal | This may be the one and only time a slothead is ever seen on ebay. I wonder if it will hit it's $15K reserve? It should. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | It seems a little quiet over this one...
Who will be duking it out with Spyder over this one? :rolleyes:
I didn't see the Trawler on the bid list this time though!
I'm a little short this week so I'll just cheer (jeer?) from the sidelines. It would be nice to see an OFC'er come up with this one. Mortgage rates are at an all time low! |
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Location: Texas | I say "WE" should buy it.
15 @ - $1K each
30 @ - $500 each
We can rotate it and have it for a couple of weeks a year, then send it to the next "owner".
Lets keep it in the OFC!
Serge ;)
www.sergiolara.com |
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Location: SoCal | Unless the seller closes the auction early, this looks like a straight auction...I didn't see any reserve. |
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Location: SoCal | No reserve listed in the traditional spot, but in the description, it states a $15k reserve. The seller may have made an error in how he set this up.
The honorable thing would be to let him know. Anybody feeling honorable? |
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Location: Midland, MI | Or maybe the seller was not being so honorable by not employing the eBay reserve function, but rather stating in the description that there is, in fact, a reserve, thereby avoiding the 'reserve price' fee that would otherwise have to be paid. I suspect the fee on a $15k reserve would be not insignificant. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | cliffito, you actually gig with yours don't you? maybe i need to share my collectables with the world too. well at least with the margarita and sunburn sliver of the world. it will be interesting to see what this brings the seller. |
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| hi guys,
I got some news: I emailed both the ebay seller (hectoru67) and elias about their slotheads.
There is something strange about hectoru67's response. he did not provide serial and model number, he did not tell me anything about the guitar's condition and history, he may cancel the auction early!!! and he wants "around $15,000' though he hasn't set a reserve. I dono....
i haven't heard from elis yet, but in our past communications he's been very knowledgeable and polite...i certainly hope he asks for less than $15K! I'll keep you posted.
sean |
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| Man those guitars are really something with that slot head and so very rare. I thought this was Samova's?? And yeah whom ever this is they need to put a reserve in there or there going to make the high bidder real mad.
It will be tough to sell it again on Ebay if this auction closses and he refuses to sell it for the $6k it may end up at?
Buyer from overseas may make a good offer before this is over anyway? That seems to be the way these go.
Randy |
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Location: SoCal | It is pretty obvious that Spider saw it early, placed a bid high enough to still be the high bid. Only Spider or the Shadow knows howwww high. :p
Got a feeling that, as Spider is also on the OFC, he's wondering the same questions such as "serial and model number", "anything about the guitar's condition and history", and the fact that seller "may cancel the auction early!!!"
Trawler is on the bid list, as usual.
For me, I'm waiting for the 30th Anniv Adamas - I don't think I will be disappointed :) :D :) |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | It is number 0050-95.
Wayne |
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Location: Texas | Here is the reply from the seller:
...."GOT FROM CHARLIE CASH MUSIC IN HOUSTON IN ABOUT 1980-85.
# 1687-7
0050-95.
SO AWESOME, HATE TO SEE IT GO....."
Serge
www.sergiolara.com |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Confirmation:
ORIGINAL OWNER 1980-85.
1687-7
0050-95
THANX,HECTOR |
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Location: SoCal | You know, ya gotta wonder how a guitar like that sat in a music store for 3-5 years without selling. |
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Location: SoCal | anyone know what these actually sold for back then? (at least the ones that didn't go to a performing artist.) |
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Location: NJ | The pricetag was what probably kept it in the store . . . .
Such was the case with mine . . .
Mine, (which is strictly acoustic), sold (in '78) for $2,400. Original dealer's price was $2.8K.
Back THEN, . . .
. . . . s'lotta money for a guitar . . .
gig t'nite . . .
'later, gents . . . |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Newbie to O's and Ebay that I am I am still fascinated by something here.
Piss-poor description, pictures and identification and possibly messed up on the reserve. Owns an OH-My_GOD class instrument and bumbles through EBAy.
Bless his heart. :(
I know Spyder will enjoy this guitar for the 30 seconds he holds onto it... |
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Location: Australia | Ovation amaze me sometimes. Lets face it (with a few exceptions) their "vintage" models don't generally fetch vintage prices but with the slothead they have a very collectable and sought after guitar which goes for big bucks.
Why don't they be like every other guitar company in the world and......make a vintage reissue !
Even if they did a slightly upgraded model with ebony fingerboard and modern electronics I'd buy one.
Tony - Do you know something about a 30th Ann. Adamas ? I hope your right :) |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Richardd, very good point.
click. |
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Location: SoCal | they did a great job on the Custom Legend this year...kept the tradition yet added a little extra such as the gold label, bone nut, OP-Pro, and bear claw spruce; all improvements. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Anticipation, thrill of the hunt and all that. Should be really cool! |
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Location: SoCal | Listing is in violation of eBay's policy:
Reserve Price Violations
Reserve price listing violations occur when a seller engages in the following listing activity:
Stating the reserve price in the title or description of the item when the item has not been listed using the reserve feature.
Stating in the title or description that the high bidder is obligated to purchase the item even if the reserve price has not been met.
Reserve Fee Avoidance - canceling bids and ending a listing early because the seller's desired price has not been met.
Listings that violate the reserve fee policy are not permitted. Disciplinary action may result in listings being ended and/or a formal warning or account suspension.
To report a listing that has a description or title that violates the reserve price policy contact us with the item number.
To report a listing that a seller ended early in violation of our reserve fee avoidance policy, contact us with the item number you would like us to review. Although there are legitimate reasons for ending a listing early, eBay will investigate sellers who abuse this option.
We have all seen auctions close early - for a $1,000 guitar maybe no complaint; for this one, maybe. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Here are some thought on this slothead guitar and all slothead adamii in general.As we all know this guitar has become legendary among Ovation fans.In other guitar circles and sites no one cares or would pay over $1000 for one.Most would not pay $500 for one,unless someone educates them about them.
In the last two years i have seen these guitars become the pre war martin D45 of the Ovation world.Highly sought after.With 35 examples available,i can see why.I personally was searching for these guitars 6 years ago.Long before the craze.Since then i have owned 3 of these highly prized guitars(#31,#33,#57).I have paid from $1800 to $3500 for them.At the time i though i was crazy for paying so much but knew deep down what these guitars would reach once the rest of the ovation fans discovered them...
So, the question is are these guitars worthy of $5000 0r $10,000,how about $15,000? Will one reach $20,000? I would not sell mine for less than $20,000 because of the rareness of the guitar,the condition and the Paul McCartney connection.Having said that i dont believe anyone will pay me $20,000 for it at this time.Who knows down the road.
(please dont fall asleep,im making a point)
So,with the recent ebay sighting of the slothead #50 and the $15,000 reserve i began to wonder about the slothead adamas'and its future value and place in guitar history.
Here is my conclusing.Just as the pre war Martin D45 rose in value from the 60's($20,000) thirty years after its release
thru the 70's ($40,000)to the 80's($60,000)thru the 90's($100,000)to its current value of $145,000..
The Adamas slothead in the same way being the rare top of the line model is now pushing thirty years old.They began selling at around $2400 in the late 70's.Reached the $3000-$5000 range in the
late 80's to early 90's.Recently one sold for slighty over $6000 to Japan.So, the adamas is rising in value fairly well.What will be its next step up the value ladder?Im not sure if anyone will pay the $15,000 for this #50 guitar but if they do i dont believe they will ever loose money on it years from now.Lets sit back and watch these rare unique guitars find their place in history. |
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Location: SoCal | As always, interesting thoughts, Sam.
I thought the one that went to Japan did sell for $15k? |
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Location: NJ | ". . cliffito, you actually gig with yours don't you? . ."
Russ, I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've actually "gigged" w/it . . .
Other than something like a playing at a wedding or at someone's house, I've only really played in public places where I was confident it's safety/security was ensured (quiet, intimate solo gigs where I have enough room to safely mic it and have a secure enough spot to put it when not in use).
Such was NOT the case last night . . .
An errantly thrown half mug 'o beer managed to splash itself on ME, my mic/stand, my GUITAR, my pedal board, AND my 12-string on it's stand!!!
My partner just looked over, and muttered:
"Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . . . S%^T!!!!!!!"
Luckily, I keep a small bale of hand towels and a bottle of Dun65 in my bag for just such morons . .
Giving someone a public verbal castration (especially when possesing both a microphone AND the sympathies of the entire house) inflicted a much a better blow to this clown than any physical throttling I could have dispensed on him.
(Of course, afterwards, I showed no ill-will by allowing him to buy me NUMEROUS snifters of the absolute BE$T tequila that the house offered.).
On the SlotHead:
I kinda agree w/the general consensus that this guy SEEMS to know what he HAS but is going about representing it "strangely".
Should be interesting to watch . .
. . . . that is of course if the whole thing does INDEED transpire. . . . |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I agree with Sam, It will be interesting to see how high they go and how fast. |
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Location: SoCal | Just got the following email from the seller:
"HI, GOT AN OFFER 6,800.00
LET ME KNOW IF YOU BID HIGHER SO I DON`T CANCELL 12HRS EARLY.
THANX,HECTOR." |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I second that. Turned the message over to eBay for whatever good it did. |
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Location: NJ | Please forgive my "eBay Ignorance", but can he do this?? |
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Location: SoCal | He can "do" whatever the hell he wants. Whether ebay lets him continue using their site is a different matter. |
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Location: SoCal | Will see if eBay warns him before (or cancels listing)...not much they will do after.
Serge is now high bidder...we'll see.
Great guitar but this still smells. |
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Location: NJ | . . . least it's getting a bit "interesting" now . . watching it over the weekend was a bit of a snore-fest. . . |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Cliff, if you are a bidder, a snore-fest is a very good thing!
By the way, are the epi's on the slotheads real wood?
Wayne |
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Location: NJ | Wayne;
I realize that, but sometimes when you have the luxury of not having to take part in the fray, it's fun to watch a good "blood sport" ;)
(and besides, it like "comps" in the real estate market . . . )
On the eppaulets:
Oh Yeah!!
I'd venture about 5-6 kinds.
Not sure which ones, though . . . .. (Bill?)
This was a textbook case of
"Doing It RIGHT the First Time" |
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Location: Upper Left USA | "but sometimes when you have the luxury of not having to take part in the fray, it's fun to watch a good "blood sport"
Why do we watch NASCAR again? Isn't ebay more like watching golf on a rainy day?
I am hoping that the invloved follow the rules in this one! |
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Location: So. Cal. | Just so you know, the seller has made it clear that if he does not get the price he wants he will not sell. He does not care if he gets a negative feedback or even suspension from eBay. You can be the highest bidder and it still would not matter. He is fishing for the 15K buyer.
I tried browsing over the eBay rules last night. Suspension is all they can do to such a seller. Unless you have the money to file a civil suit for breach of contract.
Let's do a poll on what the final price would be!? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Ebidding will peak at $8,250 - $8,500 at which time it will be pulled and end up on a wall in Tokyo. |
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Location: SoCal | I agree, don't believe it will sell for over than $9,000 and it will be a private offer.
And, as usual, we will probably not know the sales price...for the past several early issue Adamas I - only conjecture as to the past sales price. |
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Location: RI. That small State out East | My take is that he has a name or two that he is pitting against one another.
I agree that he won't follow rules. I think a $9,000 offer cash and close the sale would walk away with it.
You better get to him soon with cash because he could change his mind.
Yes, you better plan on spending another $400.00 to go to TX... Sooo, is that $9,400 My guess.
Woz
Very slow in answering any questions my way. I told him I believed he had it sold... Or like Mike said... He's still not selling.
"9 wide necks 27 narrow necks" does anyone know what #50 is? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | "Yes, you better plan on spending another $400.00 to go to TX... Sooo, is that $9,400 My guess."
Have Hizzoner send a Ranger!! :eek: |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | "9 wide necks 27 narrow necks" does anyone know what #50 is?
1687, like #50, is the standard (narrow) neck and 1689 is the wide neck model #.
Wayne |
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Location: NJ | #50 is a 1687. |
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Location: SoCal | Since my Adamas catalogs are on the east coast right now, what is a 1687? |
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Location: So. Cal. | 1687 - Standard non-cutaway Adamas I
color is -7 (beige) - see Tony C's collection. |
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Location: NJ | Wait a minute . . .
If #50 is beige, why's he showing a bleu one in his pix???? |
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Location: SoCal | Looks beige to me. Only the pic posted on this thread looks blue. |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Cliff, the beige color is grayish-blue in the center and runs to cream at the outside...that's the way this one is showing up on my monitor.
It's one of the few things that isn't strange about this whole auction. :rolleyes:
Wayne |
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Location: NJ | okay . . . .
T'me it looks like a blue one in crappy outdoor lite. . . . oh, well. |
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Location: SoCal | Sounds to me like it's margarita time. |
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Location: NJ | . . . actually, it's 20-past MargaritaTime. |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | ". . . actually, it's 20-past MargaritaTime. "
I think I need one too...I'd like to nail this one to the wall (the auction, not the guitar) but all the controversy makes it a little scary.
Also, I'd have to cash in some blue-chip Phender stuff to pay for a guitar most people have never heard of. When you are spending this much money, one can't help but be concerned about the ability to cash it out if you need to for some reason.
Decisions...
Wayne |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Cliff, time for the medicine..... |
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Location: SoCal | Bill, I think it's a least 5:00 somewhere. Time for a drink in Margaritaville. |
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Location: So. Cal. | Cliff, let's say you are in dire financial hell, you have already sold all your other valuables. Either you come up with some money for the IRS or you are going straight to the slammers, how much would you ask for your slothead? You only have, say a week to close the deal. |
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Location: SoCal | It would depend on whether he could go to the same place as Martha Stewart. I happen to know that he's always had a "thing" for her. |
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Location: Central Oregon | It's gone.
/\/\/ |
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Location: SoCal | looks to me that eBay decided to pull the listing:
The item you requested (3756843409) is invalid, still pending, or no longer in our database. Please check the number and try again. If this message persists, the item has either not started and is not yet available for viewing, or has expired and is no longer available. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Maybe someone bought it and he cancelled the auction. |
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Location: SoCal | Dave, missing in action?
This is part of what I got from eBay:
Please be aware that auction:
3756843409 - OVATION ADAMAS VINTAGE PROTO-TYPE
in which you were a bidding participant, has been ended early by eBay for violating one or more of our listing guidelines.
Because the auction was ended early, you as a bidder are not required to complete the transaction. Since this is a listing violation, the seller is free to relist the item in the proper format. Should you wish to do so, you are free to bid on the item again if it is relisted. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I'm stuck somewhere between asia and europe. Back in the US next monday. Ukulele shopping in Japan was a success. I found the REAL mothership. You will love it.
About this slothead, does anyone have the sellers email address. I've got a few questions about his guitar. |
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Location: NJ | hmmmm . . .
I guess THIS is why Miles refers to it as the "Elusive (as opposed to "Illusive" ;-) SlotHead" . . .
How high'd this thing go before it was pulled??
If he was serious about selling it, he should've just listed it here under ForSale at ". . $15K . . period."
Mike:
If it came down to a showdown with the IRS, you'd be reading a post from Russ about the new singer for Bubba and the Bottomfeeders who sleeps in the little room behind Philo's . . .
Moody:
My ex-wife was Martha Stewart before there WAS a Martha Stewart . . . been there/done that.
. . . . I've often pondered willing the guitar to the Metropolitan Museum of Art's musical instrument collection . . . . |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | If it smells like fish..... |
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Location: Upper Left USA | ...smoke it?
Having been one of, I suspect many, that turned in a question to the Ebay Police, I feel bad and good.
If you sign on to take advantage of the audience that eBay gets you need to play by the accepted rules. Using this site to sell ovations has it's frustrations and triumphs as well but there are rules of trust and fairness involved.
I hope Hector jumps back into the light of day with this instrument but I doubt it. My intuition is that it was never meant to be sold unless a fanatical offering was made.
It is sad. The spirit in which these instruments were crafted and distributed was gracious and benevolent. They were meant to be shared and appreciated.
My apologies to Spider as I know I have vented on the possibility of "treasures" going abroad. My frustration is actually on "our" lack of support and appreciation in keeping these items.
It sure was a nice thought that an OFC'er might have it on their wall though. |
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Location: Texas | Here is a new email I got from the seller:
"HI, SORRY,
SOMEONE REPORTED ME TO EBAY ABOUT THE RESERVE AND THEY CANCELLED THE AUCTION.
THATS OK ,I`LL JUST RELIST.I THINK IT WAS THE LA,CAIFORNIA GUY WHO IS MAD BECAUSE I DID NOT SELL TO HIM FOR 6,800.00.
GOT TWO OTHER OFFERS HIGHER,YOU`LL SEE.
REMEMBER, IF AUCTION IS NOT AT LEAST 7-9,000.00 I WON`T SEND IT,WHAT EVER HAPPENS.
15K WAS TO SEE THE MARKET,BECAUSE I DID`NT KNOW,THATS ALL. WHAT IF I PUT A HIGH RESERVE FOR REAL, IT DON`T SELL AND I PAY MONEY TO EBAY ANYWAY,RIGHT?"
Serge
www.sergiolara.com :rolleyes: |
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Location: Texas | Well, I am Guemozo on ebay.
I won the guitar for 5K.
Now, he emailed days ago saying that "he had an offer for 8K and won't sell for less but that he will let the auction finish".
Now, what? I am waiting to see what happens now after it has ended.
It will be unfair and out of ebay rules if he sells it outside of ebay and blows me off, and I hope he does not sell it to an OFC member.
Serge |
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| I just do not undersatnd why some people insist on not using the EBay option of a reserve? The reason that auction was canceled before was because I think a personal reserve price was stated by the seller in the auction? You can't do that! But they did it again in this one? Must be an ego thing! Just pay the reserve fee and be done with it!
Now whom ever it was that offered this $8,000.00 is going to haggle with the seller anyway now? they know Ebay is ruined for them and relisting it is going to be worthless to him or her?
Wish I had an extra $6000 around I'll bet I could get it for that in a few weeks after this guy gets burned by everyone who emailed him and promised to buy it!
That is a great guitar!!!!! and that was a piss poor auction strategy by the seller?
Every time I get emails about ending an auction or offer to buy my item I am selling I tell them to just bid! If it does not meet it's reserve I will consider fair offers?
You can't blame Ebay they charge a fee for their service and it is a real fair amount considering the commission a guitar dealer would get if he sold this in his store, and for the number of people this auction reached! Foolish Foolish Foolish! |
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Location: Scotland | Serge, under ebays rules he MUST sell to you. If he doesn't you need to report him and they "should" cancel his membership, which admittedly is little consolation under the circumstances.
A few weeks a go I bid on and won a vintage American Barbers chair for a friend whose daughter was opening a hairdresing salon. The seller decided that he would not sell "for sentimental reasons" basically he didn't use a reserve & he got a better offer outside of ebay. I reported him, filled in the forms & forwarded all the email headers, but he's still trading on ebay. |
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Location: Texas | Paul,
Thanks for your input.
I know, and that is what I will do.
I emailed him asking about the shipping charges and I am waiting for his answer.
Will let you know what's next.
Serge |
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| Serge I hate to say it but I'll bet it's going to go oversea's and we know where. These guitars are so very rare I do not know how set you are financially but perhaps make a slightly better offer to them?? You should have been the buyer on this but for what it's worth Ebay is not going to fight for you and it will take a Lawyer and some more Cash to force this issue? Sucks big time. I know.
Don't let this one go if you can. Make a deal?
Randy |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | If you bid on something and win, its yours. General rule is you can sue for specific performance, and you have to sue her where she lives. Then the next thing is how do you prove damages if it's been sold. Problem is dealing with a deadbeat seller is a pain in the ass, and probably the best thing is just to report her to everyone you can think of, from ebay, to paypal, to the better business bureau and the attorney general of the state she lives in. I'm sorry man, it looked like a good guitar, but the seller's a dirt bag and while guitars don't have bad karmas, people do, and this seller will get hers someday. |
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Location: Texas | Well, I just hope that no OFCer buys it outside knowing that I played by the rules and bid on ebay and won it fair and square.
If we find out that someone on the club bought it, I am going to demand that they kick him out of the OFC or I am out myself.
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| Much like the rest of us I have been watching this one as well! That is a beautiful instrument Serge. I know how pissed you are about this whole deal so please do not take my suggestion wrong. It is worth more than the $5k and it will go even higer in value in the future? Make some kind of a deal with these sellers and to hell with the Ebay rules. If the seller is not going to follow them your sunk otherwise. Offer alittle more? I think 8k is to much considering it did not reach anywhere near this price in that auction? But I am rooting for ya.
Randy |
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Location: SoCal | Serge, well said...
eBay has the ability to take action, we'll see. An individual listing agrees to "rules" and "restrictions." He has contracted to sell based on his listing and the fact that the auction ended. I am not a lawyer but I do believe Serge has legal rights under "performance", both against the seller and eBay. As a bidder, Serge agreed to certain obligations and gained certain rights under a unilateral contract. Disregarding what state(s) would have jurisdiction over eBay's actions, both Serge and the seller are residents of Texas. Interesting whether the Texas Attorney General or Corporate Commissioner would find this interesting. Especially as this is the second auction, after the seller was chastised by eBay. |
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| Good luck man. Problem is it takes so long and by the time any letters are written or action taken that guitar will be gone! and the expense of litigation will still fall upon the pursuant? I just want to see you get this guitar Serge. This is the easiest way and it's worth considering.
By all means if your interested in pursueing this through legal channels go for it! You have a case but you and I know how this works! You may get some retribution in the end a few years from now? but that guitar will not be in your hands in the end! Dam Shame too! Bad auction from the start! |
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Location: So. Cal. | "..If we find out that someone on the club bought it, I am going to demand that they kick him out of the OFC or I am out myself."
Serge: Your dispute is with the seller. I do not, personally, see any connection with the OFC or its members. I find it, again personally, presumptuous for you to make such a statement. It's like preschool children telling their friends not to play with someone they don't like.
If I had the money and ended up buying the guitar, Miles or Al can ban me from the board if they choose (which I doubt they would); but I certainly would not feel bad doing so (buying the guitar and stay on the OFC board).
Incidentally, we all know that offers were already made to the seller for up to $8k. I was not surprised that no one even bothered to bid last night. Otherwise, you really think in a legitimate auction this guitar would have gone for only $5k?
I apologize if I offended anybody on the board. I am merely expressing my personal opinion on this. As a member in good standing, I take offense to people telling me how to behave as an OFC member. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "I guess THIS is why Miles refers to it as the "Elusive (as opposed to "Illusive" ;-) SlotHead" "
A couple of people have mentioned this, and I don't understand. If you don't have the courtesy to tell me where the mistake is, it's obviously of not that great importance, yet it keeps coming up. Very odd.
As far as the slothead deal... make ya kinda wonder about someone who lists a multi-thousand dollar guitar yet has concerns about a minimal listing fee. For my two cents... price is dictated by market. $5000 seems reasonable. Is it "worth" more, probably, but I don't think anyone will pay that much, at least not for another 20 or 30 years. |
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Location: SoCal | You guys are getting all wound up by a prick in Texas who's tooling everybody around.
Everybody step back from the table and take a deep breath and relax. This is not worth getting upset about. |
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Location: SoCal | Michael, in reference to "As a member in good standing, I take offense to people telling me how to behave as an OFC member."
I think the points are: [1] any potential buyer had the option to bid prior to the close; [2] I guess we would hope that members of the OFC are a little different than most.
Some OFC'ers have contacted a seller after a failed auction (didn't meet reserve, etc.)- fine. Some OFC'ers have bid against each other - fine.
Only concern I have is that this was a valid auction. I had the option to be the higher bidder. I could have made a personal offer to the seller outside of eBay. Personally, I decided early on that it wasn't worth it. It is, after all, only a guitar. I won't violate my personal beliefs. I can't force others. I can make a decision to associate with others that I want, as Serge can. |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Good point Moody. Let's not forget to vote on Tuesday! |
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Location: SoCal | I don't know if the final word got out, but the election voting rules have changed. Republicans are to vote on Tuesday, and Democrats on Wednesday. |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Good one! We'd better not take this too much further. I just thought a subtle comment wouldn't hurt. |
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Location: Tennessee | Serge,
You've got every right to be upset (if indeed the seller does not come through) ... you have a valid contract per the eBay "contract" one signs when they register, post for sale, and bid. Hopefully the seller will do the right thing, but if not, your choice is litigation ... I'm not a contract lawyer, but I certainly have paid enough of them to know that you indeed have a valid contract; the question is enforcement if it comes to that.
But what I really want to say that I have dealt with, and gotten to know, many of the members of the OFC. Every one of them are honorable people in my eyes. They may bid against you, me or each other on an item of this magnitude and importance, but those I know would let the pieces fall where they will and wouldn't back door the winner at the end of the auction. The folks I know here just aren't wired that way. Then again, I am often accused of always seeing the best in people ... on occasion I get burned, but the vast majority of the time I find that good people always want to do the right thing. And this board is full of good people. (The above doesn't necessarily apply to the occasional lurkers here, but then again, that's not why you're here.)
I for one truly value your insights and advice and am honored that someone of your stature takes the time to frequent this board as much as you do. Those of us who have been following this whole sordid affair have known that you were on this with a passion, and I for one was rooting for this guitar to end up in your talented hands where it could be used in the manner which was intended by Charlie in the first place. We could then all share in the majesty of the guitar on your next album.
I wish you nothing but the best of luck in getting this transaction completed to your satisfaction. But I also believe that if it doesn't, another one will come along at a time and place that was truly meant to be. |
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Location: SoCal | I second what Bob says. |
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Location: SoCal | The problem is that there were and are members of the OFC that didn't bother to bid on eBay (or at least near the end) to win the guitar "fair and square."
They went directly to the seller with their "private offers" while the auction was in progress and have submitted offers after the bidding was won by Serge.
Just got off of the phone with Hector (seller), not to buy the guitar, but to try and see if seller would honor the contract with Serge - Serge is in Mexico City and asked me to call him. Glad I did. Hector is not the low-life I thought he was. Nice guy trying to sell a guitar and get a decent price for it. Hope he comes back to the OFC often. Sounds like Hector will make his decision soon. Just too bad that those making private offers didn't stand up and bid at the auction. Serge "played by the rules." |
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Location: SoCal | Hector's not that great a guy if he puts an auction up on ebay and then doesn't honor it. |
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Location: SoCal | Paul, absolutely correct...told me he would write Serge this evening.
Maybe he'll stand tall and do the right thing. |
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Location: SoCal | I hope so. Given the chance, I prefer to think the best of people. |
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Location: SoCal | Well, we do and do not have the answer. Direct copy of email Serge forwarded to me:
SERGIO,
I UNDERSTAND YOU.
ALOT OF GUYS SAID THEY WHERE GONNA BID AND DIDN`T.WAS TRYING TO SEE THE MARKET ON THIS UNUSUAL, NOT AN EVERY DAY,ONCE IN A LIFE TIME GUITAR.THE AUCTION SAYS AND MY EMAILS THE OFFERS GIVEN TO PREPARE YOU AND OTHERS.
THANX,HECTOR.
IMHO, anyone doing business with this guy is forewarned about his scruples. Also, my understanding, he is now trying to sell an item that he is obligated contractually to sell to Serge. Could be sticky... |
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Location: NJ | welcome to the wonderful world of e bay |
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Location: SoCal | Al, glad you got back safely...was great to have you come out!!! |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Reading all these posts makes me think what Charlie Kaman would think of all this interest in his slothead creation. I wonder if Ovation knew back when these guitars were made just how special they are. I sure hope this guitar goes to an OFC member, as these are guitars to cherish for years, and examples of how Ovation was and is ahead of its time in guitar building. |
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Location: NJ | Just a clarification.
I will not throw off anyone from the OFC if they buy this guitar.
Hector is purely a capitalist who wants to get the most money for his instrument. Unfortunately he went about it in the wrong way.
If anyone should be thrown off the site it should be me, I am just an idiot that buys and sells guitars for a living. I have bought many guitars from ebay and resold them. It's called business.
Sorry Serge but if you leave the OFC over this it is your decision. Your beef is with Hector not with the OFC. Hector seems the less than honorable one here IMHO. as for any e mails etc they are probably all lip service.
YUP tony made it back safe from CA |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | It reminds me of the old saying, when you dance with a snake, always look him in the eye. That's kind of how I look at ebay. Knock on wood I've never had a problem and the few items I reallllly wanted I got not problem. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Ebay can be craptastic! I know all of us have horror stories. One of my favorite scams is a seller selling something he doesn't own. Basically, the guy had swiped a picture from Miles website. You have to be so careful with ebay, and when you tell the ebay police about this, they are useless. |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | I wonder if UPS and Ebay are run by the same people? |
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| I know everyone on this site knows this guitar is worth more than 5k. Perhaps after the crap that was pulled on Ebay with this auction a lot of bidders figured they would get a good deal if the auction did not finish as high as it would have had they bid what they were willing to pay? I don't know nor do the rest of us.
Givin the FACT that this guitar would sell for much more than this amount, (More than double closer to tripple) if it was advertised on a web site or through a dealer much like Al.
I would offer this guy more money If I wanted this badly enough it is a once in a lifetime guitar for most of us. Legal options are going to be difficult and very time consuming and if it went for $7k we would all think someone got a good deal? Right? Make a deal.
I don't blame Serge He's just blowing off steam and most likly posted his discontent with ohter Forum members in the heat of the moment.
It's not a secret that many of these Adamas guitars go to our friend in Japan nothing wrong with that. Some people are real Sharks, some are not, that's the way of the world. When I bought my 12 string Adamas 1688-7 The dealer I bought it from told me he was getting pounded by some guy in Japan trying to buy this for a little more than the auction went off for. He canceled his bid early because he did not want to ship this 12 string overseas and deal with all the hassles this was explicidly stated in his auction on ebay. If the auction ended for $500 and I knew it was worth $2,000 I would have offered him more for it! In a heart beat! I wanted that 12 string and Ebay rules would not stop this guy from selling this for more if the offer were there?
This is an Ovation topic of interest so I feel it's alright to add a comment about this Guitar. I sure hope, givin the temperment of this deal gone bad, no one is peaved at my thoughts.
Since this guy is not going to honor this deal or at least I gather this may be the situation? Offer him a better price and put this guitar in your home. Why not? That's what the guy who's going to get it is going to do! I'll bet if it goes overseas it sells for around $15,000 US dollars or more!
Tony my hats off man. Nice try to make this deal happen. You sound like a good friend to have!
I probably should not have posted this. I tend to piss people off in here? But I guess were all quite a cast of characters anyway. and mean no offence to any others suggestions or efforts. concerning this matter.
Serge in the end it is just a nice guitar! If you did get it for 5k it would have been an absolute steal!
For what it's worth,
I'll be covering up my head now! Randy |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Choices:
Give up.
Pursue international/Internet Legal processes.
Renegotiate, secure the instrument and sue over the difference in costs at a later date.
Just depends how much money, time and emotion you want to invest. I hope Serge gets it throught the easiest path.
For the Seller; Scruples are choices. Character is as little or as much as you make it. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | What happend to the guy who outbid Serge at $5100. His bid was pulled for some reason. Maybe it was Hector in disguise? It's not fair if he does not sell it to Serge, but on the other hand it's also not fair to people who may have bid $6-7000 but didn't because Hector stated that he would not sell for less than $8000. The whole deal stinks, but I don't think there's much anyone can do about it. The "honorable" thing for Hector to do would have been to cancel the auction just before the end if the price did not meet his expectations. I know that's a sleezy way to get arounbd reserve fees, but let's be honest people do it all the time. |
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Location: SoCal | In summary, this is just a guitar...not life and death. Frankly, I don't think it is worth the hassle or the stench.
We see Serge playing by the rules while others are hiding in the shadows still trying to influence Hector (kissing his ass.) "Please Hector, sell it to me, please." Hope whoever gets it enjoys his or her shallow "victory."
Same bidders that could have bid on the auction. Although these bidders prefer the shadows, Hector is very open saying who they are.
What I found interesting was that Hector claims lack of knowledge w/eBay, yet has 85 feedback-many of them sales. This a false excuse. |
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Location: SoCal | Dave, he did on the first listing, admonished by eBay for it...Hector blames some guy in LA for reporting him to eBay.
Serge had the high bid, no one pushed it up. No one stopped them from bidding. Auction closed with Serge notified as the winner.
Ever lose an auction because you didn't watch it or decide not to bid? Then, after losing, you try to buy it from the seller?
Doubt it.
Not talking about contacting a seller where it closed without getting to the reserve. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Someone named Chris Lambert bid $5200 and was the high bidder (at $5100) until his bid was cancelled for some reason. More stench to the fish stew. |
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Location: SoCal | strange...if it had stuck, then Serge could have bid higher, then someone else could have bid...gee, always thought that was the way an auction worked. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | In my conversation with Hector he mentioned a OFC buyer from San Diago,Ca. who was offering to buy at over $12,000..Im not sure if this is true or who this buyer is but this would set a record for a slothead adamas.. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | If Hector actually stopped to read posts in lieu of just posting an ad he would see where I said I reported the first auction to ebay.
I will never buy one of Hector's CDs.
I will, however, go looking for some of Serge's and may even pay full price! Serge, I wish you the best in this. |
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| I, perhaps, am wrong about the selling prices of these?
I thought the one Elias had went for around $15,000? I know that's what he was asking. |
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Location: SoCal | re: In my conversation with Hector he mentioned a OFC buyer from San Diago,Ca. who was offering to buy at over $12,000..Im not sure if this is true or who this buyer is but this would set a record for a slothead adamas..
Not me, my only bid was about $3K on eBay (knew I was safe.)
Problem is that there appears to be a lot of misinformation out there as to what some of these have sold for.
Also, can we really trust Hector when he tells us what his high bid is...he told me Saturday afternoon that his high bid was $8,000 from France.
Maybe he likes all of this attention? Had told him he should have posted back then on OFC's "For Sale", give the minimum he would sell for, then allow offers for 24 hours. |
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Location: SoCal | oh, forgot...CLICK |
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| Wow Serge I feel bad man? This guy sounds nutz!
Let it go Serge I really thought this was worth an awfull lot more than it seems to be. There will be others.
Sick Ebay on him and see what happens. good luck.
Randy |
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Location: Central Oregon | After all I've read on this subject I wouldn't sent that Hector guy fifteen cents, let alone fifteen grand. He'd probably take your money & tell you he got an offer for $18K & he's gunna send your money back, errr, someday. Maybe. Unless he needs it to buy a new 55 gallon drum of slime. Screw that guy & his damned guitar.
/\/\/ |
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | As Artie Johnson would say, verrrrry eeenteresting. Has this thread set a record for number of posts?
I'm not familiar with the process. Is a "reserve" the minimum price the seller is willing to accept? So, if this guy has a reserve of, say, $8K for the slothead, he's not obliged to sell if the highest bidder comes in under $8K? And he IS obliged to sell to the highest bidder, as long as his reserve has been met or exceeded? Have I got it right? |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | You have it correct. I have not been following closely, but it seems in this case, there was NO reserve set, which means the seller is obligated to sell to the highest bidder. |
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Location: NJ | Miles;
About the "Elusive" crack:
I never even realized it until I typed my post in this thread. It didn't "look" like what I remembered seeing on the Reference page . . . it was then that I looked it up.
No offense intended . . .
So . . . (and please forgive MY eBay ignorance as well) . . .
What is the advantage of this guy NOT posting a reserve w/eBay?
Is the amount of eBay's "cut" proportionate with what he sets as a reserve?? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Yup. You pay a fee for setting a reserve amount.
If you're not looking you could pay a fee for everything. There are a lot of help and info links so it's easy to get informed. There is cost but the exposure is awesome! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Sure there is a fee for listing a reserve price that is "FULLY REFUNDED IF ITEM SELLS."
There is the Final Value Fee which works out to about 1.6% of the final price for an expencive item. You pay the The Final Value Fee (FVF) if your item is sold, ends with a winning bid, or is purchased. This fee applies whether or not you complete the sale with the buyer. Under certain circumstances you may request a Final Value Fee Credit. For example, you can request full credit if a buyer backed out and did not buy the item.
Then then there is the insertion fee (sounds kinky) that is not refunbable at all. for an item over $500 it's $4.80.
So what this breaks down to from what I tell is that instead of just paying an insertion fee, this clown gets to pay all of the fees and he didn't sell the guitar, and he'll probably get banned from eBay. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I still think Hizzoner ought to send a Ranger in! |
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Location: SoCal | Where's Hoppy & Topper when we need them? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Now I get it. I was generationally challenged for a momemt there.
William Boyd's (Hoppy) brother and son. |
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Location: SoCal | and his faithful horse, Toppy |
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Location: SoCal | Absolutely ridiculous...Hector gave Serge negative feedback; he's the one who refuses to honor a completed auction.
hectoru67: BAD COMMUNICATION,Emailed won`t sell,got offers,special item,hard to price,resrv
Seller hectoru67 ( 83) Nov-03-04 20:44 3758051461
Reply by guemozo: I WON GUITAR-NO RESERVE-REFUSED TO SELL-RULES ARE RULES-NO HONOR SELLER Nov-04-04 06:49 |
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Location: Iowa | Its back on eBay VINTAGE ADAMAS PROTOTYPE 1687-7 OVATION GUITAR |
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Location: So. Cal. | Not the same kind - just an early Adamas I (solid headstock). |
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Location: Tennessee | This is a different guitar ... not one of the elusive (apparentely now more than ever!) slotheads. |
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Location: Iowa | oops |
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Isn't this new one the model that Play2PraiseHim posted about the other day, that he's dying to find? Somebody should alert him. |
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Location: NJ | Not at $4K . . . . . . |
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | And he might not want one with a serial number that starts with "666." |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Nice number! These tend to go in the 1500-2000 range from what I've seen. Is this the same guy Hector? If it is maybe that explains the number. |
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| Duncan, Duncan, Duncan(I say shaking my head from side to side)!!!! why do you assume that I am a male!!! HaHa!!! Don't feel bad. I think that this makes the 3rd time on the 3rd forum that my identity has been mistaken for a man. Let me assure you that if you saw me in person, you would not make that mistake!!!! But I do appreciate you guys and hopefully some more gals are here, looking out for me!!!! That serial number does bother me !!! I am trying to hold out for a 1687-8 (Blueburst) finish !!!! By the way, anyone know what year this serial # ='s ? |
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. |
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Location: SoCal | Here you go
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33029&item=3759779083&rd=1 |
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Location: NJ | What'dya do Moody, call this guy and correct him?? |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | What do you expect from Guitar Center? |
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| Hey Serge, looks like Hector has placed an ad on Harmony Central Classifieds for the adamas that he refused to sell to you. Says he wants to get $15000!!!! Search classifieds under Adamas!!!! |
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Location: Iowa | Wow, I don't think i've ever seen a topic with so many replies on here! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | The real interesting question is how Guitar Center ended up with an early Adamas I. What do you suppose somebody traded it in for. Martin? Taylor? Larrivee? |
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Location: SoCal | if GC would reduce it so quickly down to $1,600 start...they couldn't have given much for the trade. |
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Location: Tennessee | Maybe it has been way high up on a wall in the cheapo acoustic section since it was new and they just figured out what they had. :D |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | In GC's defense (on this auction) I emailed him to let him know the difference between the guitar that ran last week (the slothead) and the one he was selling, along with an approximate value. He immediately apologized and revised the listing.
Wayne |
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Location: SoCal | Wayne,
Not me but I am aware of a couple of other guys who also emailed him. Poor guy.
Looks like a good opportunity for someone. At least GC will honor an auction. |
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Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
...You pay the The Final Value Fee (FVF) if your item is sold, ends with a winning bid, or is purchased. This fee applies whether or not you complete the sale with the buyer. Under certain circumstances you may request a Final Value Fee Credit. For example, you can request full credit if a buyer backed out and did not buy the item...
Just a guess, but this just might be the motivation for leaving negative feedback for Serge.
Moody, do I get my secret decoder badge, now? ;)
Serge, print out every one of Hector's posts here and get them to eBay with your complaint. Just my $0.02. |
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Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | The seller did NOT have to leave negative feedback for Serge to get his refund of the auction from eBay. That is a separate thing. He DOES have to go through a process of "Payment Reminder", then "Warning of Non-Paying Bidder", and then "Refund of Auction Value". Been there, done that. Not 100% sure of the terminology, as it has been a year or so since I've had to do it, I've had very good buyers lately.
Leaving negative feedback for Serge was the seller just being a jerk. I feel bad for Serge, he certainly did not deserve it. THREE refunds to a seller and you are banned from eBay. Negative feedback has NOTHING to do with it. It is when eBay loses money from a buyer's actions that they take action.
Roger |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Roger-
Interesting, I did not know that, so perhaps should have remained silent on the thread. My supposition was that it would have been easier for the seller to claim a refund if they could 'claim' that the buyer was a deadbeat and had left negative feedback...playing it for what it's worth.
Further, I did not know that if eBay refunds fees to a seller three times that the get banned. But, what does banned really mean? Can the same person not just open a new account with a different ID? Or does eBay have some way of tracking individuals? I'd guess they don't, based on the number of scam sellers, shill bidders and bid shielders that keep popping up time after time. |
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Adamas slothead