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Location: Fort worth Texas | I am curious as I am considering a Taylor I played one again recently and it just sounded outstanding.
Didnt play as well as my Ovation though but it had not been set up yet either.
What are you guys thoughts and information to support your thoughts. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I have played a few Taylor guitars, and they all sounded great. Taylor guitars are very well made, and they use top woods in their construction. And they are everywhere, just turn on the TV and it won't be long until you see an artist using one. They must have a great artist relation department. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I don't have a huge collection, and I don't even sell gear for a living so this is just based on my experience. When I loiter at the music shop I like to play all types of guitars just to try and learn things. I have played some expensive Taylors that realy sounded great. I don't memorize model numbers so I can't be more specific than that.
Sound aside, I find the Taylor necks not as comfortable to play. Furthermore....
.
alright cut!.Your rambleing!...let's try that again..
I'm trying to come up with "information to support my thoughts", but it comes down to just being my opinion and what fits nice in my hands.
I can name 6 solid reasons why I have an Ovation. Without those reasons, I would probably have a Taylor. |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | I've owned two Taylors, a 410 and a Baby. The 410 is a dreadnaught and sounded great. I sold them both mainly because Taylors are more fragile than Ovations and I got frustrated trying to keep them in mint condition, free of dings, nicks, etc. Also, keep in mind that Taylor uses a 25 1/2" scale as opposed to Ovation's 25 1/4". 1/4" doesn't sound like much but it does make a difference in the tension of the strings. Taylor just came out with some short scale-25"-models, so I guess they have realized that the 25 1/2" scale makes Taylor guitars feel somewhat "stiff." In any event, if pure great acoustic woody sound is what you're after, it's hard to beat any of the 400 series Taylors. |
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Location: SoCal | Taylors are nice guitars. I just think that they are too much money for what you get. And I've yet to play one that has "soul". Hard to describe. I don't have a problem with Taylors, but they don't have that "I can't put it down" feeling to me. If you want a Taylor then get one. Nobody can tell you what's right or wrong for you.
Great advertising tho'. |
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Location: SoCal | Played a couple but no opinion, no interest unless a special deal or a special issue (thought the one the did with the "Liberty Tree" was interesting.)
Yet, since the factory is only a couple of miles from here, would be an advantage. Personally, I pick up an Adamas or Ovation over the wood boxes I have.
Don't think less of a Taylor player. However, do feel sorry for them. ;) :p ;) |
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Location: Texas | IMHO:
Overpriced.
Adamas textured top all the way.
Serge
www.sergiolara.com ;) |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i've only played a few and i couldnt be too critical without sounding biased toward ovation. they are good looking and sound good. i attended a stephen king picking workshop, where he represents taylor guitars. i saw allot of beautiful but expensive guitars, and learned some interesting picking styles. even won a set of elixers for identifying a sond he was picking.
i know what has stood up to the abuse of lots of gigs and a tough coastal climate, and i seem to play my ovations the most. they probably dont throw stuff at you billy like they do me. and if it really gets tough, you can put your left arm through the strings, grab a pool cue and three muskateer your way to the door without worrying what you'll play for thr next gig. lol.
a really good friend just bought a quilted maple taylor, and it was as good as bookmatching of wood can get. but he wanted to know what kind of belt buckle i had on before he handed it to me. i actually was flattered as he didnt realize how hard i would have had to press it into my masa reserve to get it to my belt buckle. i think you can slalom ski on an ovation. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I guess I'm on the side of Moody PI. Side by side in a band situation, to me, the ovation and adamas sound has more complexity and personality, which some people like and others don't. I'm not saying taylors are bad, they are good easy playing guitars. The only way to test this is to find a band where they play both and check them out. If you live in the Tampa/ Sarasota area I can recommend:
http://radiofreecarmela.com/
They have a song on the website, and you can hear the ovation doing lead, and in the background on rhtym, the taylor. |
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Location: Florida | If you want a lot of guitar for the money, get an Ovation or a Tacoma.
If you want to in that oh so important elite circle of Taylor-ites, be prepared to spend much more. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | In general I think they sound great. I've played a few different models and really liked them, BUT they are pretty expensive. The necks are pretty nice and comfortable. My son has the Taylor Big Baby and for $400. it probably blows away anything under a grand. Ovation is definately the best bang for the buck. |
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Location: Zion, Illinois | I recently tried a couple Taylor's at a local music shop. The first one was a high priced cutaway. It didn't do anything for me; i was not impressed with the sound. I tried another model, it wasn't as fancy looking but still listed for about $2500. I was very impressed with the sound but for that much cash I can get a hand made Paragon or a couple of fine Ovations. |
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Location: Scotland | Taylor have a fantastic product. The guitars look great, play well & they are built with incredible precision. They have their marketing just perfect. But, and it's a huge "but"......... I have yet to play a Taylor that "spoke" to me, and I've played a lot of them. That's not to say they are bad-sounding guitars, they are not generally, it's just that their sound does not inspire me in the slightest. If I was in the market for an all-wood, high-end American-made guitar it wouldn't be a Taylor. The short-list would include Goodall, Collings, Bougouis and maybe Santa Cruz or Huss & Dalton, among a few others.
A couple of months ago I was demonstrating for a Capo manufacturer at a regional guitar show. The stand opposite us was the UK distributor of a Chinese-made range of Taylor look-alikes, marketed in the UK as "Turner". They happened to have an all Koa Taylor on the stand priced at just under £4K GBP. I tried it and then tried a similar Turner with a UK retail of around £500. It didn't look, play or feel as nice, but in terms of tone, volume & projection it destroyed the Taylor. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | My experience with Taylor has been in the recording studio. One of my artists uses primarily a Taylor. He plays what he calls adult contemporary blues so it's very acoustic oriented and one he told me he liked Ovation, but it didn't really fit the act to which my response was "and Taylor does??? why not Martin or Gibson???" Well as it turns out, he's got a good sence for marketing. The Taylor is just vanilla enough in looks and sound to not distract from the presentation. The price is ok, the sound is good, the look is predictible etc etc etc... I find I can get a nice overall tone with some good microphones.... in other words... It doesn't suck.
He's mostly a solo act, so even on large festival stages volume and feedback is not an issue for him. He has some high-end pickup and preamp system installed for live use.
I think Ovations are fuller and translate the artists feeling into sound. They are more expressive.
One final comment... if you are playing between the 1st and 5th frets mostly, Taylor (or anything else is fine). Above the 5th fret, there is only one choice, and that's Ovation. |
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| I bought a Big Baby for my son. It is good quality for a good price. From the Taylors I've played in stores, I'd say they make good guitars but it always appears that they are just overpriced for what you get. |
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Location: SoCal | Since we are talking about Taylors - any idea what an excellent condition, hard shell case, for the 615-CE, jumbo, maple w/spruce top, dark sunburst. Probably 200-2002 as it doesn't have the Expression System, appears to have fishman.
Rudy Montes called me - a friend of his daughter is trying to sell. Told Rudy that Paul M. says it has no soul...told him to put on eBay at min $1,200 with about $1,600 BIN...not sure if that was good advice or not, just a guess. |
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Location: Tennessee | Two cents chipped in from a self-proclaimed hack. I've never owned one, but the store where my son takes his bass lessons always has 10-15 so I've played a whole lot of them for short periods of time. The various models all have different tonal characteristics ... some I really liked, some quite as much. They are beautifully and very well made, and are exceptional players, from the top to the bottom of the line. But the impression I always came away with was that they were ... well, too perfect. They seem to me to be the Stepford Guitars. Beautiful to look at, remarkably compliant for whatever you need to get out of them, but somehow lacking something that I just can't describe.
To relate a story ... about two years ago I hosted an event at my home. At one point, I passed through a conversation about guitars, and a lovely lady who played in a P&W group was talking about her Taylor 12 string, and how she had searched for the perfect guitar for years and had finally found it. Later, when the crowd thinned some guitars came out, including my 6759 CL12. I flatpicked some opening chordings, and she came bolting across the property. I put it in her hands to play while I attended to my hosting duties ... an hour later she was still playing, with the most angelic look on her face ... eyes closed and clearly one with the instrument. She opened her eyes and gave me a smile of pure satisfaction. Later, as she was leaving, she told me she had never expected any guitar to play and sound like my CL, especially not an Ovation. She said this guitar "did it" for her and she was going out to trade her Taylor for an Ovation like mine the next day. I have not seen her since, but I sure wish I knew how it all turned out. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | if you are talking about recording, most unbiased sound techs i know like the ovation sound from a easy to handle signal standpoint. i guess they mean it is easy to record.
if you are rotating a guitar to look at it's physical apperance it's an "otra cosa" (another thing). ovation always put the working musician first. ( at least before the new look alike imports). what you visually present to the public is beautiful and the rest has to do with what it's all about. SOUND! DURABILITY! ONE LESS THING TO WORRY ABOUT. i can't say more about how trouble free my ovations have been. hate to say wash and wear, but strings and 9v batteries are my only maintenence. that is super important to me.
if you want to show off your furniture to non musicians-----------------
if you want a guitar you can count on gig after gig without carrying pampers------OVATION has set the example. |
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Location: Tennessee | Funny you say that Russ ... I'm just reading the new update catalog from Sweetwater and here's a great desription they have for the Legend:
"Choice of pros
Maximum sound with minimum playing effort -- when you make a living with a guitar in your hands, you need an instrument that delivers both, night after night. With top shelf materials, New England craftsmanship and superior electronics, Ovation Legend models like the LX-TPB have been the choice of working pros since their introduction. Their impressive dynamics are the product of the select, solid Sitka spruce top, braced to maximize vibration, and the clear projection of the Lyrachord body. Warm, woody, and rich, the LX-TPB delivers a silky smooth playability that seems almost effortless, from soundcheck right on through to the last set."
Couldn't have said it better myself. And in an apparent nod to those purists among us here at the OFC, not one word about electronics or plugging in! |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I seem to be agreeing a lot with Russ since he joined us again. That might mean he needs to examine his soul.
I haven't played a Taylor in years. but I was a visitor to his "shop" in the 70's and had a pre WWII Washburn mandolin repaired there fully satisfactorily. It had hung on a wall as a decoration until the neck warped, he, Mr. Taylor pulled off the fretboard and shaved the neck to restore it to proper condition, and gave me a piece of rosewood to replace some that was missing. He was swamped with work at that time and couldn't spend any more time on my mandolin to replace the rosewood, so he explained to me what to do, charged me a very reasonable price and went on to become big time.
Where I agree with Russ is that playing expensive acoustics in a band situation is not where you want a Taylor, Martin (I just saw a D-45 in MF for $6299) etc., where one drunken sailor could wipe out your life's savings. Ovations not only sound great, are designed for professional use, and even the most expensive won't cause you to mortgage your home. When you get $10,000 a gig, you can play just about anything regardless of cost. Most of us are trying to make a little money in tough venues, and our guitar has to be like a Peterbilt truck, delivering the goods over and over with toughness and reliability.
Ovation, Ovation, Ovation.
Bailey |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | I have weighed in on this before, so apologize for any observed redundancy.
IMHO, Taylors are nice guitars -- per se -- but are not values for what they cost. I have owned several of them from 400 series to 700 series, and didn't like any of them for live performance as much as I like my Ovations. They are pretty, but the electronics were no better, if as good, and I personally much prefer Ovation necks.
Best of all, I can buy at least two Ovations to suit my taste for the cost of one Taylor.
I sometimes wonder if their artist endorsement program isn't a part of what makes the ones the rest of us buy cost so much more.... As Paul T. mentioned, there are better boutique acoustics for the same money. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Paul T said it, they're nice guitars but they have no soul.
As I've said before, They are a glass of warm 1% milk. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | i guess that makes us all sOul brothers. que no? |
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Location: Fort worth Texas | I want to say I appreciate all the great input even though a lot was opinion. There was also a lot of technical aspects I had not considered.
I will most carefully take a closer look at the models I was interested in.
You guys really gave a lot of valuable information.
I have to agree the price is freakin high, but I really really enjoyed the sound from the model I played,..w/expression system.
I know I would probably have the same opinion about a better Ovation than the one I have but,...well as some of you guys mentioned I am a working musician.
I have noticed when you are playing with 2 round surfaces its like trying to control a race car with a lot of slop in the steering.
The 2 surfaces being the back of my Ovation and my fat ass stomach...lol (over 30)
I did notice the tightness mentioned before in the playing of the Taylor, I assumed it was the strings being of a higher gage than my lights on the O.
I love the way my O plays, thats what sold me it plays like an electric.
I guess what it boils down to is I may have to keep the O, and buy the Taylor and wince every time I bring it onstage. I take great care of my guitars and I know accidents do happen so I also have all my music equipment insured.
I think I might actually like a larger bowl sound but its just way uncomfortable for mw to play as the fretboard is miles away from my body...lol.
So I suppose I will be a shallow bowl Ovation player til some kind of diet works on beer molecules retained in the body.
Thanks again for all the help once again the Ovation Fan Club comes through with years of wisdom and personal experiences to help me with my decision.
Thanks again guys. |
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Location: NJ | I tried to like taylors but just can't seem to warm up to them. Eveyone i pick up seems to have the same generic sound and feel. I think they are well built and structurally sound but like vanilla and chocolate, I have to have chocolate.
I have problems with their preamp system also. I played a gig a while back with an ovation. the leader had a taylor with a mic and piezo setup. He fought the feedback for over a half hour. with my ovation I just plugged it in and turned up the volumne and waited for him.... |
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Location: Omaha | Billy B,
While you could get another 20 (or 100!) opinions about alternatives to Taylors, I can't help myself; you really should play a couple Larrivees if you must have an all wood guitar.
The 03 series are about the same price as an Ovation (with onboard piezo and preamp), and with all solid woods, most that I have played sounded as good as their 05 (mahogany) and 09 (rosewood) series guitars. I just haven't found a better sounding or better crafted (both build and materials quality) production guitar out there. Larrivees are very consistent guitars; I'm inspired every time I pick one up; I'm sorry I can't say the same for Taylors (like a few others here).
That's my $.02 that you didn't ask for...
;)
Current Larrivees:
1992 05-OM
2002 09-LV |
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Location: SoCal | Larivees are terrific guitars. The lead player at our church has one and it's a damned fine instrument. However, today he was lamenting over a small scratch in the back. I pointed out that I never have that problem.....
He goes thru a small eq board to get a good sound out of it plugged in. I had Big Blue today and the OP 24 didn't need a thing to sound good.
I wouldn't tell anybody who loves their guitar, that they have the wrong guitar. If they feel as strongly about their guitars as I do about mine, then they are doing just fine.
Just don't sit there and tell me how wrong I am. |
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Location: Scotland | Just a point about the Taylor Expression Pickup System. Taylor had their user message board closed down because there was so much negative opinion from people who had bought guitars equipped with this system. The ES system, despite the hype & input from Rupert Neve simply SUCKS. They tried to reinvent the wheel & failed, dismally. The ES may well sound great in a store or at home, but in the real world night-after-night, show-after-show, at concert volume, piezo technology at this point in time does a better job. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Taylors are not ice cream, they are ice milk. Lo-carb lo-fat ice milk.
As we used to say years ago they are GSOs (guitar shaped objects)
There are so many other options for non-O guitars, I'd exhaust them before going to a Taylor. I would say that choosing a Taylor over a colonoscopy would be a good choice though. |
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Location: SoCal | I won't say anything bad about Taylors. They are a nice guitar. They just don't make me smile when I play them. They do make me wince, however, when I look at the price tag. |
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Location: Massachusetts | I have been wanting to get another acoustic for a while now. I have an S771.
I'm looking used and really want a custom legend, mid bowl that isn't black. Billions of black and CCB shallow bowls though, don't want that.
The other part of me wants a used Taylor. I've been jonesing for their low end 314ce which is $1500 new...for that you can get a new custom legend and the Ovation blows it away for looks and sound.
But the 300 series is very bright sounding, almost Ovation like. You have to move up to the 400 and higher series to get any kind of bass and mid depth.
Used they are still $1100 for a 3 year old guitar which is just nuts.
Oh, I compared a Taylor 314ce to a brand new Adamas CVT I really wanted bad and the Adamas had better bottom and a brighter top but not much definition in the middle. Between the Taylor and the Adamas the Taylor won but between Taylor and Taylor the 300 series is pretty weak and overpriced.
Oh, I did play and Elite LX against the 314ce and the LX was very warm and bassy and blew away the Taylor. |
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Location: Australia | I own one Taylor (714) and two Ovations ( CL & Adamas).
The Taylor is a fine sounding acoustic but I always seem to find myself reaching for an Ovation.
It's the playability of the the O's, the general feel and the best necks (and electronics) in the acoustic world.
Also, I must agree on the Taylor Expression System, it really does SUCK. Nice in theory and that's about it. |
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Location: Lawrenceville, Ga. | I used to play a Taylor, albeit not the top of the line (a 310). Nice guitar for what it was, and I used an LR Baggs M-1 top plug in with. The 310 was quickly showing the wear and tear of gigging and I also got tired of fussing with the EQ settings to get the sound I wanted. Saw a good deal on my Elite T and never looked back. Now I just plug in and play. Still trying to put away a few bucks from each gig to get an Ovation 12 string to replace the one I foolishly sold a couple years back to buy that Taylor! |
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Location: Fort worth Texas | Corvairfan,....thats the line I played the low end 314ce I had the same opinion and the 310ce which was even cheaper sounded great to me.
I still love my O though.
What do you guys say about the claim by Taylor that their expression system stops feedback almost completely since it uses magnet sensors instead of piezo crystals,... they claim that when you attack using piezo systems the sound quadrouples causing feedback and distortion.
I dont know if I agree with this but I do know in certain situations I have had trouble getting my O up in the mix even with the OP-40's notch filter,.... usually it makes since cause its a small stage or the stage volume is just way too high.
Ideally I want an acoustic electric that dosent feedback,..period. Is there such an animal? |
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Location: NJ | Ideally I want an acoustic electric that dosent feedback,..period. Is there such an animal?[/QB]
yes it is called the viper |
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Location: SoCal | Picture in the local paper today. REO Speedwagon did a concert and one of the guitarists was playing a modern Viper. |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | Kevin Cronin uses the EA68 Viper for his stage acoustic. He has a longtime association with Ovation, and was one of the poster boys for the 1985 Collectors' Series. The other in that pic is one of our own beloved.... |
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Location: SoCal | ? |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Billy Blaze:
[QB]
What do you guys say about the claim by Taylor that their expression system stops feedback almost completely since it uses magnet sensors instead of piezo crystals,... they claim that when you attack using piezo systems the sound quadrouples causing feedback and distortion.
QB]
If they are making such a claim then they do not understand the relatively simple physics involved.
Feedback happens when a PA or monitor system amplifies the signal at sufficient volume that a microphone or pickup receives it at the same level as the source sound. This is know as "unity gain". What then happens is the sound from the loudspeakers is again amplified through the system and you have a feedback "loop". The big problem with acoustic guitars is the energy from the sound system sets the guitar top in motion, so it really doesn't matter whether you have a piezo, a microphone or a magnetic pickup, the acoustic physics and the resulting problems remain the same. The Ovation Viper works well because the top is relatively stiff because of the semi-sold body, so it's almost impossible to get a loop happening.
For what it's worth, my experience of the ES system is that it's feedback threshold is significantly lower than a piezo system. |
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Location: NJ | ". . If they are making such a claim then they do not understand the relatively simple physics involved. ."
Since said claim is being made by their Marketing Department . . . . . .(click.) |
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Location: Fort worth Texas | ok...here is what they say word for word.
"For the past 30 years the vast majority of acoustic pickups have used a source known as piezo crystal. Piezo is a square law device meaning that if you double your attack the output of the pickup quadrouples and so on.
The harder you play the worse it sounds.
Piezo's require a pre-amp just to function, both to match the high empedance leveals and to correct the undesireable native sound that the pickup itself produces.
In the end, however, you still hear the voice of the piezo crystal as well as the distortion it produces when you play hard." |
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Location: Fort worth Texas | Hey Tony,
I know you posted about a 615ce? I looked up the current price of that guitar and it retails for
3,628.00....ouch!!!! |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Billy Blaze:
ok...here is what they say word for word.
"For the past 30 years the vast majority of acoustic pickups have used a source known as piezo crystal. Piezo is a square law device meaning that if you double your attack the output of the pickup quadrouples and so on.
The harder you play the worse it sounds.
Piezo's require a pre-amp just to function, both to match the high empedance leveals and to correct the undesireable native sound that the pickup itself produces.
In the end, however, you still hear the voice of the piezo crystal as well as the distortion it produces when you play hard."
Yes, but it has nothing to do with feedback threshold. We all know that piezos are far from perfect, but they are practical & can be made to sound pretty damn good if you know what you are doing.
The best-sounding pickup I have heard so far has to be the LR Baggs I-Beam, but it's virtually unusable for me because it's feedback threshold is even lower than the ES system. In fairness, the ES sounds OK, it just has a way to go before it'll convince me. |
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Location: Charlotte NC | My chiropractor recently found out I play guitar and brought his Taylor in for me to check out. I thought it had a nice sound. Somewhat fuller and warmer than my 1771LX but I wouldn't say remarkably better. It was a big thing and it felt like I was holding one of those gigantic guitars the guys in fiestas down in Mexico play. He said he got it on a private sale for a little over 3 grand. Heck, for that much, I could get another LX to leave at my office, another one to keep in my car, and yet another one for each of my kids! |
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Location: SoCal | I've posted this before, but about a year ago, I found a music store that had a Balladeer Special (?? the one with the satin face and wood rosette?) with new strings on it. I played it against several Taylors and it was a much better, fuller guitar. When you actually listen with your ears instead of your ego, O's compare very very well against a great number of very popular guitars. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I still have this churning around in my head:
"They are a glass of warm 1% milk."
Let me add - Why have a Garden Burger when you want a Thick-n-Beefy. |
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Location: NJ | ". . .Topic: What do you guys think about Taylor guitars . . ."
- I usually try NOT to.
". . . and why? . . ."
- I have no REASON to. |
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Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Yes, but it has nothing to do with feedback threshold. We all know that piezos are far from perfect, but they are practical & can be made to sound pretty damn good if you know what you are doing.
The best-sounding pickup I have heard so far has to be the LR Baggs I-Beam, but it's virtually unusable for me because it's feedback threshold is even lower than the ES system. In fairness, the ES sounds OK, it just has a way to go before it'll convince me.
is the i beam what they put on the rainsong paul? it had a mic and a piezo, and was a nightmare playing infront if the amps. (not bad in the parlour plugged in.) i thought it was the thin carbon fiber body. maybe both. i couldn't even begin to play with the mic on without making the patrons wince from the WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Russ, every Rainsong I've seen with electronics has had Fishman and as far as I'm aware none of the larger companies are installing the I-Beam. It was probably the internal mike causing the problems. In my experience unless you have the mike & pickup on separate outputs, a very high quality sound-system & a competent engineer, internal mikes are usually more trouble than they're worth.
With the Exception of the I-Beam I'm a big fan of Baggs pickups, especially the LB6, which is the only after-market piezo pickup which comes anywhere close to the OPP in terms of output, string-to-string balance & feedback rejection.
As an alternative to Piezo pickups, the Baggs M1 magnetic is stunning. To my ears it's bettter than the Sunrise & the Vanden Mimesis (the original Scottish handmade version of the Fishman Rare Earth) |
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What do you guys think about Talyor guitars and why?