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Location: NC | Okay.............see alot of 12 string guitars. What are difficulty in playing a 12 string vs. a 6 string and advantage to a 12 vs. 6? I have never really heard an explanation. :confused: |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | My main guitar is a Custom Legend 12string. The sound is very different from a 6str. That's why I chose a 12...I wanted to fill a room with sound (small group worship settings, 20-50 people, sometimes not plugged in). The neck is slightly wider, but IMHO an Ovation is the easiest 12srt neck to play. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | 12 string or six string
car or suv
and that could just as easily be
suv or car
it's all in what you want. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | A 12 string (Ovation necks rule!) is more chorus and rythym based. While there are some lead 12 Players (Roger Leguinn of the Byrds) they are as rare as Rocking Horse Poop (thanks again Bailey).
I play 12 in a Praise Band and it allows the other players to have their own voice. If they aren't having a good day the sound tech can turn me up louder! :D
Vice versa.
I can coax more variety out of a 6 though.
12 string calusses and 6 string calusses are different too.
Having both is a must! |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | MWoody
RHP was not my invention but from one of our other great commentators, I can't remember which at the moment.
EliteLX
I went through a 12 string phase in CA and found them to be a great difference than 6 strings. I was influenced by Glen Campbell's albums (not CD's) as "Mr 12 String" made in LA just before he became Glen Campbell, the star. They are great lead instruments for driving up tempo songs, best known of those would be "Good Night Irene" by Leadbelly, the most famous jailbird in music lore, whose 12 string playing was legendary. Look up Leadbelly and Glen and you will have a good traditional 12 string insight.
Bailey |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Elite, playing a 12-string is more difficult than playing a 6-string, but not as much as you might think. You have to develop the knack of holding both strings for each course down at the same time, plus not accidentally touching the adjoining strings(unless you intend to). It does take a bit more finger strength as well.
A properly set-up 12-string is not difficult to play. I've played 12-strings by many manufacturers and Ovations are definitely the best, with Taylors not far behind.
The sound of a 12-string is much different than that of a 6-string, more high and bright. It is definitely a rhythm instrument---Leo Kottke and Roger McGuinn do well playing lead, but most of us mortals will have to settle for playing rhythm.
The sound of a 12-string is also more "dense" than a 6. They are really different instruments and should be thought of as such.
You usually use lighter strings on a 12-string, .010s or .012s---.012s are the heaviest strings I've ever seen for a 12-string in normal EADGBE tuning. Obviously, you can use heavier if you tune it lower(Leo Kottke does).
I have two 12-strings, a 2001 Adamas Melissa Etheridge and a 1981 Ovation Glen Campbell 1118 slothead...I'm just too lazy to post my guitars with my name any more.
Roger |
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Location: North Carolina | Compositionally, they are two very different animals. If I were locked in a room with one or the other and had to write a song, I would come up with 2 different songs depending on which one I had. In the past, I have tried to play a 6 song on a 12 or vice versa and it just doesn't work. You should have one of each to be complete!
Franklin
franklinmoore.com |
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Location: Corvallis, OR | Hi
A few other differences-
1- A 12 string is essentially two six string guitars in one. And so they require about twice the normal amount of time spent on tuning, since they have twice the normal mumber of strings
2- For beginners at least, tuning is also more difficult than a 6. Because both sets of strings must be in very good agreement with each other - not like separately tuning two six string guitars that wont be played together.
3- 12 strings also have a reputation for serious problems due to the extra load placed on the instrumnet by the strings. The problems include warped necks,bridges that come loose, and distortion of the body. (I have not heard Ovation owners complain in this department, however.)
4- A 12 string is not just a loud version of a 6 string guitar. The two instruments do not specialize in the same kinds of music, nor do they require exactly the same techniques to play them - and some people just never get the hang of playing a 12.
5- A common complaint people have about a 12 string is that "the neck is too wide." Interestingly, the neck width on most 12 strings is 1 7/8 inches, which is the same width of my finger style 6 string guitars (Ovation # 6774, 1624, etc.) In fact, my practice/camping guitar is an old 12 string fitted with nylon strings.
Felix |
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Location: Zion, Illinois | For all you 12-string players out there, I found an interesting DVD at homespun tapes. It is named "Contemporary 12-String Guitar" by Chris Proctor. It is all about alternate tunings and playing the 12-string as a solo instrument. It might give you a totally new outlook on 12-string playing. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Elite, something else that should be mentioned in case you don't know it (I didn't prior to getting interested in 12-strings) is that for the low 4 pairs of strings the paired string is tuned an octave higher than the "regular" string.
Thus, a 12-string in "normal" tuning is tuned to be EADGBE, with the EADG string pairs(the octave-higher strings are usually thinner) being an octave apart and the B and high E strings being paired identical strings tuned to the same pitch.
Roger |
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Location: Wooster, Ohio | Really interesting posts. I started out with a six for years, then for some reason it was twelve for a couple of years and now it is really both. They are really two different instruments with very different voices, advantages and disadvantages. Since I have been using a double neck in prase band, I find it fasinating that on some songs the 12 is just awesome with its chorusy fullness. But on some songs the 12 is two busy and the six works much better. I think with a six you can do more subtle picking things, which on a twelve can get lost or just more difficult given the double strings. I really like being able to go back and forth, it is really like have two different intruments which I can call on when needed. The 12 can be dramatic in the right place, but today a did a solo on the six which had a lot of picking and it would just not translate well to the 12. I don't think you choose one or the other, use both and it is really fun.
Steve |
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Location: NC | Thanks guys...............that is the feedback I was looking for. Answered everything then some. :D |
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Location: SoCal | One thing I want to add...although I had a 6-str before (unplayable, had same fate as the guitar on the same stairs as in Animal House, first guitar I learned on was a 12-string. It was my only guitar. Different animal than a 6-str. Don't recommend until someone is fairly comfortable with the 6-str. It may stunt your development - tendancy to work with 1st 3 frets or capo, no barre chords, scales, etc. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I might add, Ovation has the reputation of making the most trouble free and reliable 12 strings and has had that reputation for many years, even though they don't feature it in their ads. MAYBE THEY SHOULD.
Bailey |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I play both, but mainly use a 12 at solo/duo rock gigs. It is a completely different animal to play a 12, and my techinique tends to be very different than on a 6. I love ripping into a 12, it's just monsterous! It's more exciting to me because it's more of a challenge, but well worth the effort.
The downsides are finger picking, arpegiated stuff, and barre chords can be challenging, but sound beautiful if you can master it. String bending is a real treat, unless you're Stevie Ray. Also, due to the lighter guage strings, some of the bottom end doesn't come thru like on a 6...it's a bit of a trade off.
I had been mixing the low EAD strings from a 6 string set it to compensate...and it sounded awesome, but gets expensive buying 2 set of strings for each string change, at the rate I go through 'em. The Ovations handled the extra tension like a charm. Absolutely brilliantly designed guitars, and incredibly reliable.
Some songs, I find, I just have to pass on the 12 string...it's just too difficult, or really inappropriate. I think you quickly get a feel for when it will work well and when it won't.
If I really had to choose only one guitar, I'd stick with a 6 string, simply because it's more practical...you can play a wider variety of music on it and have greater flexibility in every situation. But don't cha dare try and take my 12 from me...once you get a taste for it, it's hard to give up. I feel most at home on my 12.
Johnny |
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | I love the sound of a 12-string but, with my small hands, have never found one that's comfortable to play. I haven't had the opportunity to play an Ovation or Adamas 12-string; it sounds like that may be the answer to my problem - assuming I can ever find one in a store to try.
In the meantime, I think I recall hearing about an effects device that claims to emulate the sound of a 12-string. I'm not thinking of chorus, but something that is designed specifically to mimic a 12-string. Does anyone know of such an effect? If it's true, it would be quite a find - that gorgeous 12-string sound with the ease of playing a 6-string. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | "I haven't had the opportunity to play an Ovation or Adamas 12-string"
You must to truly know!
I think it was the Line 6 that had the emulated 12 string thing going. Paul Templeman was involved in the string that came up if you want to search.
Try a Tacoma Papoose 12 string as well! It might work better for smaller hands. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Duncan, if you want a 12-string sound with 6-strings, another solution would be to restring a 6-string with thinner strings and put it in Nashville tuning(everything an octave higher). That should get a lot of the 12-string sound!
Roger |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | The Line 6 Acoustic has a 12 string setting using 6 strings as does the Line 6 Variax electric. The reviews give them good marks for 12 string sound plus many other guitar emulations. I wish someone here would get one and tell us all about it. I think Paul T. mentioned playing the electric but I don't recall him mentioning the 12 string mode.
Bailey |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | Nashville tuning....I play 2nd guitar on our worship team and usually play my CL 12, but last Sun. I took my '97 Collectors' and put high octave strings on it. Well...I think I've found that little guitar's perfect voice! With the main guy playing 6str. and me in Nashville tuning it sounded like a really cool 12str. And it was a lot easier for me to play the neck on that guitar. Lots of fun to experiment like that! John <>{ |
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Location: Warrenton, Virginia | I always felt that a 12 string improved my "finger picking"....when I leave the 12 and go to the 6....much faster and truer |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | Nashville tuning
whazzatt? :confused: |
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | According to the posts above, it appears to mean tuning all strings an octave higher, using special "high octave" strings. Still, wouldn't that put a lot of extra tension on the guitar, possibly leading to damage? |
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Location: NJ | Tim;
A good analogy would be:
Stringing a 6-string with JUST the harmony strings of a set of 12-string strings.
The E-A-D-G are an octave higher.
If you listen to Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb", Gilmore's acoustic in the background at the choruses are done on an Ovation Custom Legend strung "Nashville". |
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Location: Warrenton, Virginia | Cliff
I like the thought of that....but would it be a bit twangy? How do you think that would sound on an LX? |
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Location: NJ | Slap;
Ashamedly, that's the extent of my knowledge on this. :rolleyes:
Never done it, nor played it.
I believe Messrs. Moody/Templeman are a little better versed on this . . .
It's some "Country" thing . . . |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | ....but would it be a bit twangy?
...hmmm... maybe that's the point.
... would that "Special Tuning" justify my purchase of another guitar??? :rolleyes: |
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Location: Warrenton, Virginia | thanx Cliff....maybe Moody/Temp will chime in.
Tim....yep sounds like justification to me |
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Location: SoCal | Stringing a 6 string with the octave strings from a 12 (I think D'Addario sells sets of these now) and tuning them like they would be tuned on a 12 is Nashville, or high string tuning.
It makes a very jangly sound. A lot of recordings in Nashville and in other types of music use a guitar strung this way. It simulates the sound of a 12 but doesn't make the track sound so muddy.
The way to make it effective is to capo up around the 5th to 7th fret. I've got a buddy that I'll play rhythm with and I'll do this and play all sorts of rhythm figures while he's playing the main tune. Very very cool.
Older O's are great for this. The O's of the 70's (except for the Custom Legends and the Adamii) had very little bass so they were perfect for this application.
I just read in an interview with David Gilmore that he still uses his 1970's Custom Legend for this purpose. |
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Here's how I justify purchasing a new guitar: "Hmmm...I think I want to buy a new guitar." Works every time. ;) |
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Location: Warrenton, Virginia | Paul Moody
Thanx....I never thought of it....plan to try it. |
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Location: Scotland | High-string guitar is very much an ensemble thing. It's great for doubling rhythm parts on a recording or for playing with other rhythm guitarists without getting in the way, but a Nashville-tuned guitar by itself it sounds pretty weak. |
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Location: SoCal | The only exception to what Temp just posted, that I have run across, is when I heard a championship fingerpicker play a Nashville strung guitar. It was incredible.
Wag, you know him, Michael Earhardt (sp?). |
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Location: Warrenton, Virginia | Paul
What does it sound like? Kinda like a harp? |
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12 string vs. 6 string