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Location: Scotland | Hi. I'm new to these forums despite having had a Custom Balladeer since about 1979. I can't imagine life without it but my wife tells me that as i don't have many other expensive interests I can upgrade to a new Ovation for my birthday.
I'm confused. I'd have about £800 or 1500 dollars to spend on it. however the tone on my Balladeer just seems to get better with age - and it is now a member of the family. I could just be persuaded to pass it on to my son if i can find an Ovation which might just provide a little better tone or maybe just because mine has no built in pick up.
So, can anyone suggest a possible replacement. I'd obviously want to play it first but some thoughts would be welcome. Naturally, I've started by looking at the current Balladeer.
I'm a leftie and play James Taylor type songs ( all day long according to my wife).
Some help please. thanks in advance. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Welcome Jimdad!
You are so in the right place. There is a recent string on left handed (sinister) options and a few members who are in their right mind.
There are lots of options to "upgrade" to and twice as many opinions. Having just re-aquired my first Ovation - a 1973 made 1112-1 - I know what you mean!
Learn to use the search tool and the member gallery - great tools!
Look for Mr. Paul Templeman - now an Ovation Dealer in the UK.
I stay away from James Taylor tunes myself - ever since my mosh pit accident at one of his concerts.
Enjoy! |
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Location: Scotland | John, drop me an email from the link above. Left-handed USA Ovations aren't too common over here, but the UK distributor has stock & I can do you a great deal. I'm based in the North East, so I'm not too far from you |
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Location: Scotland | Thanks, guys. Paul, i'll PM you. Mwoody, I can't seem to get the Search function to work for me and I don't see the thread about Lefties you spoke of. Can you remember the title? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | It was a topic started by Leftovertion, #2621, just a couple of days ago.
Go to Search and plug in Member 2621 - if it works!
You'll get god info from Paul T! |
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Location: Tennessee | You'll get god info from Paul T!
No need to stroke his ego that much! :D |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | Guess you haven't heard about Paul T's ne wAdvertising slogan.....
it reads as follows:
"I aint much to look at, but i'm good at heart"
Uh oh,...sounds like most of us! :rolleyes: |
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas | I played a LX-Legend at Guitar Center Friday and it was v-e-r-y nice....
Was a right handed one. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Stonebobbo - at least I used a small "g"! I have been having a little trouble with my vowels. |
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Location: Scotland | Sorry, but it's difficult to get "god info" from an athiest. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Not so, but that is for another site...
I am getting reaquainted with my 1112. It amazes me how cool the old instruments are even when A/B to the more recent ones.
Has anyone warned him about GAS yet? |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | .....I just hope he's not disappointed when he compares a mid-bowl anything to his deep-bowl......GAS may go out the window...... :D
Roger |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Now, now Roger. You know that GAS never leaves - it just changes color and shape. Stand by an overzealous bass player for a few essions and you'll appreciate the thinner bowls! |
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Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida | After looking at O's under $1,000 I was always drawn to the 1771LX Standard Balladeer, seems to have all the LX upgrades... They retail for $700 USD...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=04081000272620518811606955 1688/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/513631/
1 more review of LX:
Ovation LX Upgrade
Inside-the-plant look at a host of serious enhancements
By Eric Wolf
When a number of research and development projects at Ovation came to fruition at around the same time, the LX upgrade package was born. It offers significant and tangible improvements to Ovation's most popular American models: the Elite, Legend, Standard Elite, and Standard Balladeer. The bowl, top bracing, neck bracing, neck joint, and electronics of the LX guitars are all a cut above Ovation's already very high standards.
Twist my arm
When I was a wannabe fusoid in the '70s, Al DiMeola's flattop chops convinced me that Ovation was the acoustic axe for electric guitar players. Since then, I've spent more time on acoustic than electric and I'm still a big Ovation fan. So Musician's Friend didn't have to ask twice to get me to make the coast-to-coast flight to Connecticut to tour the Ovation plant.
The plant is located in the tiny old textile town of New Hartford in western Connecticut. The building is a rambling red brick refitted textile mill that ran on mechanical water power back in the 1850s. It is situated right on a world-class trout stream.
I was immediately struck by the laid-back pace in the plant. These are clearly craftspeople, not just factory workers. There is a tremendous amount of careful handwork on each guitar and almost every craftsperson has mastered multiple processes. The guitars are not made in large lots. All models trickle through the factory one at a time. As you would expect, the technology is truly dazzling, all oriented toward extreme precision in every detail of manufacture. And I do mean extreme-for almost all processes, the primary unit of measurement is a thousandth of an inch. I was dazzled for hours as I was guided through the intricacies of the making of the new LX guitars, from the wood storage room to the giant room full of gorgeous finished Ovations.
Lighter back and new bracing
The LX guitars start with a new back material that's been lightened by the injection of tiny glass bubbles called microspheres. This new Lyrachord retains the durability of its predecessor, but is actually more acoustically vibrant and weighs 33% less. Even the machine-molded back gets a tremendous amount of handwork in shaping, finishing, and fitting it to the neck of the guitar. The bowl itself is cut to accommodate the perfect neck angle using a machine that leaves NO room for even the slightest error in neck alignment.
The solid Sitka spruce soundboards of the LX guitars are fitted with a new scalloped X bracing pattern developed with a laser vibrometer. This piece of wizardry plots the vibration of specific spots on the top to seek out dead zones which can be eliminated through precision placement and scalloping of the braces. (This is not hype, I actually saw this machine.) Amazingly, all the bracing is minutely radiused to provide a very slight arch to the top so that if the wood expands with moisture it will always expand out, preventing concave dead spots and warping.
The exotic wood epaulettes around the multiple sound holes of the Elite LX and Standard Elite LX are inlaid into the top for a much more plush feeling. There's a small birch backing to lend support immediately around the sound holes.
Necks generation
The Kaman bar has been the pièce de résistance of Ovation's neck technology development. It provides incredible stability and consistency but adds a little weight. The lighter LX bodies require a lighter neck for correct balance. But Ovation was determined to keep the kind of stability the Kaman bar provided. The ingenious replacement is a revolutionary neck-and-joint system that combines bolt-on efficiency and strength with set-neck precision and aesthetics. Bolts that extend through a thick Lyrachord portion of the bowl into an aluminum block integrated into the heel add support to the precision-fitted, glued neck joint.
To further strengthen the joint and add lateral stability, two 3/8"-wide, flat graphite bars are set on edge into parallel narrow grooves that extend on either side of the truss rod from beneath the seventh fret into the body of the guitar. Combined with the five-piece neck construction, this prevents twisting and makes a phenomenally strong joint that will never warp.
The new LX truss rod is a masterful invention that comprises a round steel rod threaded on both ends through tiny blocks welded to a second parallel-running square rod. The result is a rod that can be turned one direction to forcefully increase the bow of the neck and the opposite direction to forcefully pull the head back. LX owners will never experience that frustrating moment when they discover that the truss rod is loosened all the way and the action is still too low.
The fretboards of the LX series guitars do not come into direct contact with the soundboards. This prevents all the special warping problems that often result from fingerboards that are simply glued to the top. This system also would make it possible to pull and replace a damaged neck without destroying the whole neck joint-a first for set-neck acoustic guitars.
Back to the future
Connoisseurs of classic Ovations swear by the Original Patented Pickup. Featuring six separate elements embedded in silicone that sense string and top vibration, the OPP provides balanced tone across the spectrum and from string to string regardless of string type, gauge, or tension. Now Ovation has re-created this pickup to the last detail, sourcing out parts (even wire) from the original suppliers based on vintage specs.
Working closely with Al DiMeola, Ovation has created the OP-Pro, a new preamp which captures the same warm vibe of the original OP-24 preamp and adds a wealth of techno-sizzle. When you hit the bypass button, the EQ is automatically configured to the precise setting Al DiMeola uses. When the button is engaged and the three-band EQ sliders are centered, you've got Melissa Etheridge's precise settings. The OPP and OP-Pro come standard on all the LX guitars.
The end result of all these changes is a lighter, more resonant guitar with precision setup ability, amazing stability, and truly phenomenal tone-both acoustically and plugged in.
Experience for yourself the lightweight feel and fabulous tone of Ovation's LX upgrade. Musician's Friend has all the LX models in stock. Let us make you the best deal you'll find anywhere on one of these luxurious new guitars.
Seems to me to be the best bang for the buck...
AB |
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Location: Scotland | Yep, it would be a great choice, except that they do not appear to be available left-handed as yet, & Jim's a leftie. |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | Our local stores won't have LX lefties, but I'll bet if you called and had a little conversation with the factory they'd make you one. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Going back a bunch here.....Mike, I DO appreiciate the mid-bowls....I have THREE....but someone who is used to the depth of sound from an old deep-bowl may initially be disappointed by the brighter sound of a mid-bowl.
My wife and I did this comparison last Friday in a shop; she sat in front of me while I played an Al DiMeola Custom Legend(the only production deep-bowl available) and a non-LX 1777 Legend(exactly like one that I have) and she could tell the difference easily. She said the 1777 had a much brighter sound, the ADII had more depth and character.
Yeah, I know about GAS!!!! I wanted to "liberate" that ADII from that shop soooooo bad!!!
Since there's no LX for lefties at this point, I'd suggest a L777 Legend.
Roger |
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Location: Upper Left USA | What happens at the factory - do they just declair it "Lefty" week and flip over the jigs and such?
Roger - too many guitars, too little cash. :confused: |
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Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida | You can't special order it ???
AB |
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Location: Omaha | I've been away for a couple days, but let me give you the scoop, straight from the factory.
Lefty LX's won't be available for some time...let's just say indefinitely, since Ovation is currently 2,000 orders behind on the right-handed LX models; and they won't start making any lefties (they haven't even got the bowls yet!) until they catch up with right-handed ones, which are obviously their bread and butter.
So I went ahead and ordered a lefty 1777-5, or L777-5 as someone recommended on a previous post. I e-mailed the factory several times, and received helpful e-mails back each time, confirming that it will be a while before lefties are available, and also confirming that my L777-5 will be made to regular 1777 specs; it won't have any of the new LX specs (like "X" bracing or the OP Pro preamp or the new neck).
I'm satisfied with this for now...if Ovation gets the bugs worked out of the Op Pro preamp (for one, there is almost no volume gain until you turn the knob all the way to 3 o'clock), I may order an Elite LX lefty in a year or two.
:rolleyes: |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Sounds super-duper to me, Mikey. You will likely not be disappointed. My non-LX 1777 sounds very, very nice, just not the same as a deep-bowl.
MikeW, too little cash NOW, at least, my GAS fund is growing weekly......but the siren call of a Balladeer LX may prove irresistable.....definitely the best of the LXs to my ears, never played a bad one yet.
Roger |
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Location: Upper Left USA | OAO - Either tie yourself to the mast or unfurl full sail into the Siren's nest! |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Mike, either I tie myself to the mast or my WIFE may cut me loose!!!! :D
Roger |
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Location: Upper Left USA |  |
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Location: Scotland | Thanks for the interest and the welcome everybody. I've been in touch with Paul and he's been very helpful. I'm torn at the moment between a conversion of an old non cutaway leftie, a L777-4 Legend which is outside my price bracket - don't know why I'm even thinking about it! - and waiting for an LX. Paul reckoned maybe just into the new year for lefties of these?
Btw, GAS :confused: |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Guitar Acquisition Syndrome - an affliction that causes the person involved to want to continue to acquire guitars beyond what he/she really needs.
Roger |
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Location: Scotland | Aint that the case :) |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | But you can never have enough guitars!!! |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | Bill's Right!! You can never have enough Guitars.
There is no such thing as too many..
Now if i could only convince my wife.. :rolleyes: |
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Location: Scotland | OAO, I'm interested in the deep bowl versus mid bowl aspect. On my Custom Balladeer I tend to use light Elixir strings (0.11). I'm so used to the sound it makes that I'm starting to get worried that I will find the sound of a mid bowl a bit lacking. Trouble is, having investigated a few shops around me I can't find anything better than a Celebrity to try out as I'm a leftie.
In a nutshell, what might make the Legend a better guitar than my 78 Balladeer? Why is it worth the extra money? Is it all down to finish or tone or specs? |
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Location: Scotland | At the risk of doing myself out of a sale.....
If your guitar is a pre K-bar 5-piece neck version it is one of the last of what many would consider the "classic" 70's Ovation Balladeers. They are solid, dependable workhorses & they can sound great (though in my experience they vary drasticaly from sample to sample)
With the Legend you're getting a classier-looking guitar (gold hardware, bound fingerboard, inlaid rosette) latest electronics, a different bracing pattern (A as opposed to X, Let's not go into the fact that the LX's are back to using X-bracing) and a cut-away. I wouldn't get hung up on the mid vs deep bowl thing. I own several examples of each and any differences are pretty subtle. Whether you prefer one over the other is something you'll need to figure out for yourself. Hope that helps, but I realise it probaby doesn't. |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | I agree with Paul. There is not a whole lot of sound difference between the Deep Bowl and The Mid Bowl. If there is it is very Subtle. I went with a Mid-Bowl for my 1858 12 string and it sounds great! Projection is outstanding. I think you'll be very happy with a mid-bowl. |
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Location: Scotland | Certainly not doing yourself out of a sale, Paul. I appreciate the honesty and I'm still working on it. I think i'm going off the idea of converting a used one so it's either wait ( for ever ? ) for an LX Balladeer or go for the Legend ( and cook my own meals from now on. :) Might email you later.
Meanwhile, how do I tell if my Balladeer has a pre K-bar 5-piece neck ? |
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Location: Scotland | The K-bar Balladeer necks were 2-piece with the neck-rod adjustment through the soundhole. The 5-piece necks have a rod-cover at the nut, plus you can clearly see the 5-ply lamination. There may have been a 2-piece with a rod cover but I've never seen one. |
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Location: Scotland | Looks like I'm the 2 piece. There's no rod cover. Now I'm confused. I thought I remembered buying it for my 24/25th birthday which would make it around 1978. It appeared to be from the check on the site Does this mean it's not a '70s Ovation??? It's model 1112L and serial no. is 246582. |
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Location: SoCal | The serial number would date it to 1981, which is consistant with a k-bar, two piece neck. |
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Location: Scotland | Thanks, Moody. It would seem that I lost a couple of years in the 70's somehow. Any suggestions? ;) |
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Location: NJ | . . . if only we ALL knew . . . . :rolleyes: |
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Location: SoCal | Take more drugs?? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | We are supposed to refer to them as "Meds" now! |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | That's the Politically Correct term, But not everyone wants to be Politically Correct. :D |
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Location: SoCal | Better living thru chemistry. |
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Location: Omaha | jimdad,
Let me help you with your decision concerning mid-bowl versus deep bowl; there is no lefty deep bowl! (I think...)
Only mid bowls are available left-handed from what I've seen in current Ovation catalogs, and even looking back at older models on their website ("discontinued models").
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this? But current models are definitely ONLY offered left-handed with mid-bowl, and I beleive every lefty that is not a special order is also a cutaway.
HOWEVER, having said that, according to Ovation's 2004 price list, "Left-handed models are available by special order for most Ovation USA models at no additional charge. All mid-depth cutaway models are available, however preamp options are limited to OP30 and OP40." Also, it says that "special orders" "can be delivered in three months from receipt of your order from an Authorized Ovation Dealer..."
So you try to interpret that...or just e-mail Ovation to get a better answer; they're usually very good about replying within 24/48 hours. :cool: |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | Great Answer Rev Mikey,
Now that yo mention it it seems that I remember that as well. Good tip. |
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Upgrading my Ovation for 50th birthday