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January 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | It seems as of late I notice more and more instruments (like everything else) made in China. The Applause guitars are manufactured in China. I got my Musicians Friend catalog in the mail today, and noticed that many Guitar makers are taking advantage of the cheaper labor, and feature a line made in China. On a recent visit to the GC I noticed quite a few China made guitars. Ibanez, has an archtop line made in China, not to mantion other makers. What grabs my attention is the incredible low price of these instruments, they look ok too. Compared to the crappy (low end) guitars that were made over 25 years ago, these guitars are a bargain for the entry level player. Question: Anyone own a China made guitar, and how good are they? You sure can't complain about the price.
Tommy M. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | I have owned many. I am amazed at the quality. the only one I have kept was a couple of danelectros. the body and neck held up but the hardware is horrible |
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September 2003
Posts: 782
Location: Waurika OK | Well, as much as I hate to admit it, yes. I have a good friend that recently had a stroke, has had a pace maker implanted, and one of his carotid arteries cleaned out. All within a month.
Visiting him in the hospital, he said he had always wanted to learn to play guitar. I told him as soon as he got home, we would get started and I started looking for a guitar. He had no insurance, so you know what his financial situation is, and I don't have the money to buy him a good O. and wanted to get a guitar in his hands soon.
I visited in several guitar shops that I have traded and bought in. As I was leaving one in Duncan, OK, the owner said, "Have you tried one of these?" The brand name was Santa Rosa. Regular size, cutaway. Strings were low with no buzz, good action and the sound was suprisingly good. He said, "I sold these last Saturday for $69, they are now $89 dollars, but you can have one for $69.
As you would imagine, it was light in weight, but that was a plus because my friend has lost some strength in arms.
Will it last a long time, no. Would you want to play out with it, no. But for the time being, it has made him happy.
This guy has a lot of friends, and my plan in time is to buy him a better guitar as he gains strength. I have already talked to some and don't think the price will be a problem.
Of course when the time comes, you can imagine what brand of guitar will be bought!
noel (not finking out on Ovation) |
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July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | My 2003-vintage Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plus 'burst was made in China....beautiful, absolutely beautiful and plays like a dream(believe it was set up in the U.S.). It's disgusting.
Roger |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | The local mom/pop has a 'house brand' of guitar, 'Allen Guitars' (named after the owner, Rick Allen). They're very inexpensive for what you get; for example: a beautifully flamed, carved maple top, PRS style body with dual HBs, birdseye neck...the whole nine yards *and* a case for < $500? And there are four of them on the wall and a backroom stacked with more so you can get the 'best' one? Crazy.
I wasn't terribly surprised when I found out they're made by Samick. Seems Samick is making stuff for *everyone* these days. The only possible downside I see is lack of resale value. Not that I care so much about that (call me, Packrat!). :)
Still, I'm partial to Ovation and Peavey, based on past experience. I've never had a Gibson or Fender and doubt I ever will...I'm cheesed at Gibson for what they did with the whole Lynx Crowe thing and both Fender/Gibson are overpriced in my not-so-humble opinion. But, then again, if the right opportunity came along...
If it plays good, is built well and you like it, who cares what's on the headstock? |
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Posts: 265
Location: Warrenton, Virginia | Noel
Thanks for sharing about your friend in the hospital with a stroke wanting to learn the guitar.
Hope he makes progress with his health and the guitar |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Ovation...It's a healing thing
Brad |
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June 2002
Posts: 863
Location: Central Florida | On a recent trip to the local GC, I noodled around on an Epiphone Les Paul Standard that had a "Made In China" sticker on the back of the headstock, and was very pleasantly surprised.
I'd owned a Korean made Epi LP about ten years ago, and the quality then I thought was pretty darned good. More recently, I'd owned a Gibson LP, and the Chinese made Epi I played the other day was much closer in quality to the Gibson than the Korean built one I had ten years ago. The fit and finish, fret work, and overall set up were as good as any non-Custom Shop Gibson I've seen.
Obviously, they're cutting corners somewhere in order to keep them at their specific price point. But heck, as long as the overall sound, look and feel of the higher end version is there - and you're able to get beyond the name on the headstock - who cares?
Jeff |
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January 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | Cutting cormers is right. It's called no human rights for their labor force, and no enviormental laws governing lacquer vapors and disposal of solvents etc. Hence, the cost to consumers is less. They still are a competing guitar on the market, and their quality is suprising, for the price.
Tommy |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | This is correct Tommy but it's the way it has always been. First Japan then Korea then indoneesia and taiwan and china. And it's not just guitars, it's everything. |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by cwk2:
This is correct Tommy but it's the way it has always been. First Japan then Korea then indoneesia and taiwan and china. And it's not just guitars, it's everything.
I saw a Dilbert cartoon once...the PHB had outsourced a department to Mexico, who outsourced it to India, who outsourced it to Japan, who outsourced it to...you get the idea...the last frame was the boss reading a proposal for them to provide the services to the last outsourcing country in the chain for the services that they originally outsourced.
If you can follow that...it all came back around. |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | If people were just willing to pay what it costs for a quality piece made here we wouldn't need all that runnin around! |
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December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | Walmart Nation with disposable dreams. |
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July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | There's the first line of a song, Mike!!! Go to it!!!
Of course, should you record it, Walmart would never carry it!!!! :D
Roger |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | when I was a kid something made in japan was considered crap. I have gone from seeing items made in Japan, korea, malaysia, mexico etc become respected. eventually the enviornmental issues and human rights issues will follow and then it will be just as expensive to produce items in the those countries as it is in the US. unfortunately none of us will live to see it. |
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January 2003
Posts: 49
Location: SunShine State | There is a place in the Florida keys that hatch out shrimp. Every day an old Beachcraft from Key West takes a load to Mexico (about 325 Miles). The shrimp come back full-grown to the US tariff free.
Is this why Ovation makes all the bowls in the US for all their imports? |
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July 2004
Posts: 7
Location: East Texas | Please allow me to dust off my soapbox:
Taxes are paid at the current rate of the country they are manufactured in (34% in US, 2% in China). If you had a product line with a $10 million dollar profit, where would you produce? Pay $3.4 Million in taxes our $200,000 in taxes?
Please write your elected officials and VOTE. Eliminate the Coporate tax and the US economy would boom.
Whew! I feel better now.
The overseas guitars are improving. I played a Alvarez Thin Body made in China that sounded great in a music shop. If you can't find good used and that is all you can afford, you have to by what you can afford to buy. Just play before you pay. |
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March 2002
Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | Dust off that soapbox more often.
I've got an Epiphone Riviera (335 style) that was made in Korea & set up in the USA that is as nice of an electric guitar as any I've ever had the pleasure to play. (I should add that I've never actually seen a solid body Ovation, let alone played one.) Fit & finish is very good & the neck is superb.
Asia is making some very good stuff of all types & they're getting better all the time. Quality control is still weak in some areas but they learn fast. We're getting Taiwan body panels when required by insurance companies (fenders, hood, etc.) that are almost as good as the OEM parts for fit, occasionally better in the case of GM.
/\/\/ |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I've heard that in china, the local chinese companies, who pay a tax higher than foreign companies, are complaining about the favorable tax advantage given to foreign corporations producing their goods in china. The chinese will fix this tax problem, congress won't, for reasons of its own. So this tax rate will change. even if they do equalize it, however, they are making factories so fast, and there are so many underemployed people, that production costs won't equal ours for 50 years. Or so I'm told.
Yes, I agree with play before pay, but sometimes the prices are pretty good by mail order. |
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February 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Netherlands | I bought a solidbody Cort M520 two months ago, made in Korea. It's a stunning instrument. Solid mahogany, set neck etc. etc. Cort ans Samick are arguing on who is the biggest manufacturer in the world. Both companies manufacture about 30% of the worlds' guitar production, according to their websites. Together, that's 2/3rds of what is produced today.
Both companies own factories in Korea, Japan, China, Indonesia. They produce for fender, ibanez, gibson, prs, (ovation?).
No wonder they are able to make good instruments. Where labor is cheaper then material costs, the quality of the product rises. When material cost is cheaper than labor, the quality of the product drops. It's all just economics.
Meanwhile, I think Europe and the US will have to reconsider the high taxes, wages etc. or WE will become the next third world. (More import than export = loss)!
Martin |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | I've heard via a few European importers/distributors that the Chinese situation may change soon. Apparently China is going through a major raw materials shortage to the extent that they have to import scrap metal for recycling. Most scrapped cars from the UK now go to China. This will eventually impact on all Chinese manufacturing, and prices will rise accordingly. |
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February 2003
Posts: 299
Location: Netherlands | But it may as well impact world economics. Last year, China alone was responsible for the increase of the raw steel price. China uses about70% of the world's steel production. Same applies to other materials.
Martin |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Martin, according to several websites, so far this year the figure on Chinese steel consumption is around 25% of World production, and it's growing, with a projected peak not until 2010!. The upshot, as you said, is that we get cheap Chinese-made goods in the short term, and everything else gets more expensive in the long term. The whole situation is a global economic time-bomb. |
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Posts: 299
Location: Netherlands | I got the figures wrong and stand corrected. Meanwhile, I worry on. :)
Martin |
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October 2002
Posts: 153
Location: Huntington Beach, CA | I played a Chinese guitar in a local shop and it sounded pretty good, played nice, etc. Problem was that a couple hours later I again had the urge to play that guitar.
Seriously though, if you are interested in imports, checkout www.rondomusic.com. They have some pretty nice stuff and very reasonable prices.
D. |
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February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | Now I'm a guy who has USA Ovations and wouldn't look twice at a celeb. or applause. That said...my daughter just got an Alvarez RF8 mailorder. I had it sent to me so I could set up this "junker" and make it somewhat playable before she had to deal with it. Well...for $200 w/hsc this is one nice made-in-china guitar. Sealed tuners, high quality spruce verneer on the top, high q. Sapele verneers back and sides (and ALL bookmatched to boot), set up to perfection with Elixers, what appears to be Tusq nut and saddle, real...not fake...MOP soundhole rosette. How the heck do they do this for $200??? John <>{ |
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March 2003
Posts: 555
Location: Wooster, Ohio | I know I have commented before, but the Celebrity doubleneck I bought months ago on ebay is now my main guitar. The quality and sound are excellent even with it being a panelmaster. Little talked about, is the innovativeness of the use of a body that is 3/4 of the normal size. Much easier to handle, and the acoustic volume is more that made up by its width. Simple but very effective. Electronics first rate as with most Ovations. My Dream guitar would be a solid spruce version, but with the Korean body size not the full size USA custom. Without the far east connection I would never have be able to play an Ovation double. |
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May 2004
Posts: 295
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | I'm not much of a political beast, but it has occurred to me that, although my Elite, my Martin, and my soon-to-arrive Adamas are expensive, they are quality instruments, and buying them put money in the pockets of U.S. workers...Hey, wait a minute - I'm Canadian! |
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December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | Duncan, it's OK! we return the favor by purchasing affordable medications from you!
It all works out! |
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January 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | Rondo Music, Eman, how did you find out about this place. I bought my first amp (Ampeg Gemini I), and guitar (Fender Jaguar) there in the 60's. I guess things have changed. Interesting that they specialize in inexpensive (notice I didn't say the word cheap) imports.
Tommy |
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China Guitars