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Location: Atlanta, Ga | Which model is Ovation's top of the line classical guitar? Does Ovation make any model with AAA grade spruce?
Thanks |
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Location: SoCal | Their classical models are 1863 and 1763 (super shallow bowl and mid depth bowl). The tops are cedar, not spruce and are AA grade wood.
May I suggest that you look on the Ovation web page and save yourself some time asking these types of questions. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | If you're looking for some older ones, the 1113/1613 has AAA Spanish Pine and the 1116/1616 has AA Spruce. Dave |
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Location: Atlanta, Ga | Hey moody, I did look at the ovation web site but the reason I am asking "this type of question" is that Ovation will make custom order guitars beyond what is in their standard range. The standard range guitars don't necessarily list the grade of wood used on classicals. Who knows, maybe ovation doesn't want to use AAA grade spruce on classicals for a specific reason. If so I am curious to what that reason is. My question goes deeper than what some marketing guy wants the the internet web site guy posting on the official web. |
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Location: SoCal | Ovation will make any guitar you want. Take a look at the recent thread on Paul Templeman's Folklore (and look at the guitar in the members only section). You didn't specify what you were looking for in your initial question, so I answered with what they have in their catalog and are current making as standard instruments.
Ask a more specific question (as you just did) and you'll get a more specific answer |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I was curious. How does the CC059 compare with the higher end classicals? Any opinions? |
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Location: SoCal | Built in Korea, less expensive materials. You get what you pay for. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Moody, have you played the CC059? It can't be as bad as your response intimates. Actually, I was wondering in terms of playability. For instance, with the Telecaster, I've found that the $1200 tele feels like a nice piece of wood, while the $350 tele feels less "solid" but still is quite playable. I suppose, as I write this, it's that old saw, that a good guitarist, all things being equal will make a good sound out of a stick and a string, while a lousy guitarist, can't make a note with the most expensive. I'll do a blind taste test, some time in the next month and I'll report back. Wish me luck! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | All classicals will sound like a guitar with really loose strings ....
Actually I am NOT a classical guitar player by any possible stretch of ones imagination. But I have owned models cc-63, 1113 and 1116. I currently own models 1613 and 1624. What I can tell you (in my opinion) is that the plywood top cc-63 sounded aweful compared to the others. No volume or clearity at all. The 1624 has a slightly thin sound due to the artist bowl. The deepbowls 1113, 1116 and 1613 all sound the same to me. The cc-63 had cheap open gear tuners, while the US made guitars all had nice sealed shallers. The nato neck on the cc-63 also felt kind of cheap, while the 5 piece mohogony necks all had that solid Ovation feel. As far as fit an finish, you definately get what you pay for. The 1613 that I have in gloss black is just stunning to look at, it plays very nicely and really makes you feel like you have a quality instrument in your hands. The sound is wonderful (as long as someone other than me is playing). You can see a picture of this in the gallery. Dave |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | The 1613 sounds like a nice guitar. I'm sorry to hear that the 63 doesn't sound nice. |
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Location: SoCal | I never said or implied that the Celeb classical was a bad guitar. I said that you get what you pay for. There are people on this board who own Celeb classicals. Let them answer as to the playability and tone.
Korean Ovations use less expensive materials, have the lesser preamps, and in general aren't as good a guitar as the USA built Ovations. I have yet to play a Celeb anything that I thought was a match for a USA built Ovation.
I didn't say that the Celeb classical was a bad guitar. I said you get what you pay for. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Bad analogy here, but as long as your expectations are realistic and in line with what you pay then you should be a happy owner no matter what the name of the guitar or where it was made. If you buy a Toyota and expect it to be a BMW, you will be disappointed. But there are many, many happy Toyota owners who feel they got a good product for what the paid. If you look at a Celebrity and an Ovation and decide to buy the Celebrity because it looks "similar" and will be "just as good" you will be disappointed. On the other hand, if you decide to buy the Celebrity because it fits your needs and your budget (and accept the fact that there are better guitars for more money), then you will be satisfied with your purchase.
Forget about comparing Celebrity and Ovation. It's the old Toyota and BMW story. Better to compare a Celebrity to other brands of guitars in the same price range with similar features. What you will find is that the Celebrity is one hell of a guitar for the money. Important point here is that the "competition" is other similarly priced instruments, NOT high end Ovations.
Comparison of Celebrity to Ovation is not relevent. I am not a Celebrity basher (I have owner several and have always felt I got a good product for the money I paid). But I agree 100% with Paul Moody - I have never owned, seen or heard a Celebrity model that could compare to an Ovation - because (guess what), you get what you pay for.
Dave |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Hate to be "anal", but should we be specifying "USA" Ovations. They all say Ovation on the peghead, right? |
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Location: SoCal | I think that Dave was trying to make that distinction, talking about Celebrities and Ovations. But he meant, when he said Ovations, USA Ovations.
I've had a long day and I'm tired, so take this into consideration on my next comment, but yeah, you're being anal. Something that you are not known for.
We've had this discussion regarding Korean vs. USA guitar too many damn times. People need to browse thru the archives before asking questions like this. Or maybe I should have referred him over to the archives initially? |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | perhaps... we were all fng's once, right? lol :cool: |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Yes, seasquare, you read into my post exactly what I intended to say. As far As I'm concerned there are 4 lines of related guitars - Applause, Celebrity, Ovation and Adamas. And that's the way I refer to them. I think Ovation makes a big marketing mistake by branding both the Celebrity line and Ovation line with the "Ovation" logo. It confuses buyers and dilutes the Ovation name. Look very fast and tell me which is a Celebrity Deluxe vs. Elite or a CC57 vs. a Balladeer. The 4 product lines have distinct target audiences and vastly different price points and features - hence they should be portrayed individually. I'm not putting down Celebrity guitars at all. As I said before I have been a happy owner of several of them and think they spank the pants off similarly priced guitars. Dave |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Interesting point, Dave
I have been pondering on the fact that Ovations were seen in almost everybody's, who was a prominent musician, reperetore some years ago. They disappeared about the time the Applause and Celebrity lines appeared with the Ovation name and distinctive headstock. Ovation made the mistake of leading the parade of cheap guitars, and got shot in the back by the arrows, as the other makers followed suit more quietly. I.e. Fender , Martin, with cheap knockoffs that they could sell in the catalogs for UNDER $300 DOLLARS STREET. Ovation, unfortunately, led the pack with the Applause.
Bailey (kick my ass if I'm wrong) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | A further thought: Ovation has done a nice job of positioning the Adamas line. Adamas has it's own name, own headstock logo, own catalog, webpage etc. It has unique features and a certain target audience. Seems to have worked. They also do the same for Applause. Different features, different target market, different distribution chain, etc. and IT also seems to work. But somehow they muddy the waters by trying to portry Celebrity and Ovation as the same guitars and wonder why the consumer can't tell the difference or justify why this one or that one has such and such price - so the buyer ends up with a Martin or Taylor. Dave |
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Location: Atlanta, Ga | Note to self: Don't ask what the top of the line model is anymore. Too confusing.
Hmmmmm. I've owned Ovations, played many, read the websites, and read very carefully the catalogues. My conclusion is that the top of the line steel strings are the custom legend and custom elite (I may be wrong and others certainly may have opinions). My reasoning is that Ovation reserves their highest quality AAA sitka for these models. Even the 2003 Collectors Edition uses AA grade. So, right or wrong that's my assumption.
So I look at classicals (which I'm interested in). The catalogue I have states that the elite can be made in nylon (along with several other styles but the custom legend literature says nothing about nylon options). It doesn't say anything about the top wood at all and I can't really find anything on the web site that helps. I assume that it uses AA grade on the elite just like the steel string. I really want to know if a standard model custom legend is made with AAA sitka with a nylon option. So, I e-mail Ovation and ask them. I ask "Do you make any standard model classical guitars with AAA grade sitka spruce?" The response is "All our guitars are currently made with cedar tops. We can, however, custom make one with spruce." Did they cleverly omit AAA? I don't know. Maybe the flexibility of AAA doesn't combine well with nylon and Ovation's production techniques. I would assume it works better but who am I to say, So, I say why don't I just ask the friendly folks on the fan club site. What a moron I am. I improperly ask what the top of the line classical Ovation is and whether or not they make any with AAA spruce. I shouldn't ask that type of question I read a couple of times.
Sorry guys and gals. I should have known better. I'm now enlightened. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I like that analogy about BMW v. Toyota, puts things in context. Thanks. So it looks like my next guitar will be a non-celebrity usa made ovation. ;) |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Don't worry about people dissing your question. That's the nature of board like this. It's like the real world with all sorts of people. In fact, this board is way better than average. You just have to wade thru the non-reponsive material. I've found people here who are polite and helpful. I wish I had the answer for you. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | 1773 Nylon Mid-Depth 4
1863 Nylon Super Shallow 4
According to the catalog they use AAA wood.
http://www.ovationguitars.com/index.cfm?fa=catspecs1 |
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Location: SoCal | cgadave:
You're not just enlightened, you are now officially one of us!
You're question wasn't a bad one, it was just ambiguous. Some days I read those well, and somedays I don't. Dave (Standingovation), I believed really nailed down the answer with his BMW vs. Toyota answer. My question to him would be, where does Lexus, made by Toyota, fit in to the equation?
Seriously, I've got a suggestion for everybody who is new to this board. Ice down a couple of beers, make some nachos, and spend a Saturday afternoon going through the board archives. I swear to you, it's time well spent, and entertaining as all get out. You will come away with so much knowledge regrading Ovations and so many opinions, that you will be astounded. I've been known to go back and re-read sections of the archives just because it's fun (I tell my wife I'm working on our taxes on the computer). |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Paul, your Lexus question is a great one. Lexus goes out of their way to distance themselves from mainline Toyota. They have seperate dealers, seperate repair facilities and to the buying public seems like two different companies. They (Lexus and Toyota) are both very successful because the have staked out their target comsumers and taylor their products, prices, and selling environments accordingly.
This is basically what Ovation did with Adamas. They created an upscale product with a different set of features and a different target consumer. And I think this has been a very successful move for them. Someone once asked me if Adamas had to license the roundback technology from Ovation. How's THAT for product segregation in the publics eye?
The problem is at the other end of the spectrum where a company introduces a lower end line of products, such as Celebrity. Imagine the total freaking mess if Toyota introduced a really low end line of cars that looked something like Corolla's and Camery's but had lesser features and were manufactured in Vietnam (for example). And they just dumped both lines in the same sales showroom and even called them both "Toyota". The confused consumer would say "WTF?" and probably end up buying a Ford or GM product. In my opinion this is exactloy what is going on with Celebrity and Ovation, despite the fact that both Celebrity and Ovation guitars are great products for the money.
Dave |
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Location: Atlanta, Ga | An4340,
Thanks for the link. I did see that AAA cedar was used but I was curious about spruce. Speaking of cedar I'm warming up to cedar use on steel strings but I wouldn't play them with a pick (I wouldn't play a redwood guitar with a pick either). I really like cedar while playing fingerstyle.
Hopefully soon I can go through the archives while chillin' with a cold one to catch up a little. |
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Location: Tennessee | Going off topic a bit ... did anyone else see the small ad for the Q in the August Guitar Player? It was just a small 1/6 or so page in black and white. Just a note: It was the excellent Hamer ad on the back cover that made me pick up the pub and leaf through it. |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | Dave (standingovation),
It's funny you should say that about Toyota's... they do have a lower end Corolla, only it's put together in CA with their engine and transmission- it's the Chevy Prizm. It's a great car for the money :D
Now if I could just parlay that into a 1773 classic... |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Just one question in to subliminal motivation
Why did Dave in the first paragraph of a preceding post say; " taylor their product" TAYLOR, what was he trying to say?
Bailey :D |
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| If Mercedes-Benz had followed in the footsteps of Ovation after buying Chrysler they would have slapped a bunch of Mercedes hood ornaments on all these Dodge Neon’s and renamed them Mercedes-Benz Celebrities. Then all the Mercedes dealers could just stock a couple of Mercedes 300’s & 500’s and the rest could be Mercedes cc47’s or something. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | The "taylor" thing was a slip, but I think a pretty good one (ha ha). The analogy to mercedes and chrysler is very appropriate. Dave |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Just had to catch you on that one Dave, and I agree on the Chrysler/Mercedes comparison. Unfortunately, we may live to see the Mercedes Neon, and, if we are unfortunate enough, it will have gull wing doors.
Bailey |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | OK, first off, excuse my rambling and cognitive "stray voltage". However, after perusing this now, lengthy, dicussion, and connecting it to a thread I recently promulgated ("New Critter...."); I am additionaly persuaded and motivated to have my 1127 rebuilt. Analogously, the choice being: Would you buy a brand new Subaru Legacy, a good, solid, reliable vehicle, or put your 1972 Mach I into the shop for a new engine, upholstery, wheels and tires, and paint job? Nostalgia is a factor, but what about the intrinsic, and inherent quality of the vehicle?
Now, if this fails to "open up a can of worms", then I obviously have missed my mark as a social agitator and petty revolutionary! |
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Location: SoCal | Ok, I'll take a shot at this as it is something I've given a lot of thought to regarding both cars and guitars.
Maintaining a used car or guitar is alway, but always, in the long run, cheaper than buying something new. With cars, the trick is to find something you like and get one that was leased, with low miles, and now being offered by the dealer with a full warranty. That way, somebody else takes the big depreciation hit. Then you drive it until the wheels fall off. Putting three grand a year into repairs is nothing compared to monthly car payments of $4-5000 for the next 3-5 years.
The downside is that if you get into an accident, you'll never get your money back out. For example, my "toy" is a 1983 Rx-7. Over the last few years, I've put in (including the purchase price) about $9000 into it. I can't sell it for more than 3 and if it were totaled in an accident, it I wouldn't get more than 1. But to buy something comperable new, I'd spend $25000 and be making payments for 4 years.
Same with a guitar. While the money you put into an older guitar can't be justified (most times) by what the guitar is worth on the open market, by and large, it's still cheaper than a new guitar, and you get the satisfaction of playing something that is wonderful, has history, and isn't like everything else on the wall of the Guitar Center.
I've only bought two new guitars in my life. I currently own about 10 Ovations and the newest one is from 1993. The oldest three go back to 1968.
IMHO. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Is the refurbished Mach I a better car than the 2003 Legacy? Perhaps irrelevant. Preserving history and continuity might be a better rationale. It all depends where you place the emphasis. Yes, I know this has strayed from the original issue of high-end classical guitars BUT, given the choice, would you restore the 1974 1613, or buy the 2004 Folklore Deluxe? |
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Location: SoCal | Isn't the 1613 a nylong string? Or is it the Folklore of old?
Given that choice, and an ability to spend the bucks for the newer guitar, I'd get the newer. The reason being, the bracing pattern. I think that the A bracing pattern is much supperior to the older patterns. And, I just think that the Folklore Deluxe is one of the best guitars that Ovation has ever build.
But if we were comparing a new Legend with one from the early 80's (same bracing), I'd go with the older guitar. |
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Location: Scotland | The Folklore was 1114/1614. An older 1613 and the current FD are poles apart, any comparison of steel/nylon guitars is pointless. The nearest current model to the 1613 would be the 1863 or 1773 Legend Nylon string, which, getting back to the original point of the thread, are specified as having AAA cedar tops, but they'll make one for you in AAA spruce if you ask.
Paul, the old Folklore/Josh White was X-braced. While I agree the A-brace is arguably better than the various VT patterns, the older X-braced guitars, like the Deluxe Balladeers we both own, sound killer. $500 max for an old Folklore or nearly 3 times that for an FD-14? As much as I think the new version is a great guitar, I know where my money would go. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Choice of restoring an old 1114/1614 or buying a new FD-14 also might depend how much you value having something rare. There are thousands of 1114/1614 but on 50 of the FD-14's. Dave |
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Location: Scotland | Hmmm.... what price rareity, and does it really matter, given Ovation's status in the vintage/collectors market. I have a Folklore of which there is only 1. If I put it on ebay tomorrow, would that make a difference to it's value? I suspect not, but it ain't gonna happen, so it's academic. |
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Location: SoCal | Paul:
I gotta admit that the only Folklore I ever hear (I've never played one), was a right handed guitar converted to a lefty. Sound wise, it sounded like my 78 Legend which a most uninspiring guitar when strung normally.
I blew the opportunity last month to try one of Standovtion's Josh Whites when I was in Phoenix. I'll be that those guitar, with the X bracing and the old shinny bowls, would indeed, be killer.
You are absolutely right about our DB's. Mine gets played around the house more than just about anything else.
But when I played his Folklore Deluxe... wow. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Paul T. - I wasn't refering to resale "value", but rather the value of ownership, like sentimental value. If something is rare, I just feel luckier to have it, that's all.
Paul M. - The FD and the Josh don't sound all that simlar. I think the differenc is mostly due to spruce top vs. cedar. Tough to say which I prefer.
Dave |
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Question on classicals