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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Hello everyone. There has been some talk on here lately about the Korean made Pinnacle guitars. I have played one, and was really impressed by the quality of its construction, and its sound. Only one thing I don't understand. Why does it only come in one color? It has a nice solid grade AA spruce top, how about a natural one? Why are nice guitars like this only offered in one color? Thank you....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Indiana | Hello from a new guy? I've been reading the messages about the Pinnacles because I'm considering buying one. There's an online store called Oklahoma Vintage Guitars that have them at what seems a good price to me. I have an Ovation Glen Campbell 12 I bought back in the 70's when I was going to teach myself to play. Now I'm going to try again with a little help and would like a 6 string. Would the Pinnacle be a better choice than the Celebrity or Tangent? What would be a good entry level amp? |
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Location: Queens, NY | The Pinnacle/Pinnacle Deluxe are the top of the line Korean made Ovations, and the only ones with a solid top. The Celebrity/Celebrity Deluxe and Tangents are laminated tops. For a few more bucks, you should also consider a US made Ovation (Balladeer or Elite Special). |
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Location: Indiana | Thanks for the input Tony. As a matter of fact I was looking at an Elite Special from the same place in Oklahoma. Now I'm trying to decide if I want to wait to get the amp later. That's what I'd have to do to get the Elite. Unless I find someone who wants a late 60's Holton Al Hirt trumpet really bad. I always tend to lean towards American made, but I haven't heard anything bad about the Pinnacle. I'm sure if I get to be a better player, I'll have to buy a top of the line Ovation. Since I seem to have trouble letting go of anything, it would probably be cheaper to just buy it now. But my lovely bride would disagree I'm sure. |
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Location: Tennessee | Comments from the peanut gallery ... I think the Pinnacle is a better instrument than the Elite Special or even the S series Balladeers. I wouldn't worry about Korea vs US; in fact, I have heard that the Elite Special and the S-Balladeers were made overseas. Maybe someone on the board can confirm/deny this.
Looking at the Pinnacle vs. the Elite Special, they both have the two piece mahogany neck and the OP30 electronics. The Pinnacle has a AA Solid Sitka Spruce top ... the Elite is A grade Spruce. The Pinnacle only comes in mid-depth bowl (which would be my personal choice) and the Elite S and S-Balladeers come in both super-shallow and mids. To my eye,the mother-of-pearl work on the Pinnacle gives it a much more attractive appearance than the rather plain-jane looks of the others. I have held all of them and there is no discernable different in quality and construction.
I personally like the looks of the round-hole version of the Pinnacle -- I like the honey-burst finish and the nice rosette. The sound is great, too.
If it were me, I'd buy the Pinnacle and get the amp as a bonus! |
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Location: Scotland | Not sure about the Elite but there was definately an offshore Balladeer for a while. The new Pinnacle is a lot of guitar for the money, but further blurs the line between domestic & imported guitars.
"They both have the 2 piece mahogany necks" yes, but the Pinnacle will undoubtedly be Nato, a much cheaper & less stable species. On the factory tour Rick told us that Ovation only buys triple-A grade spruce & downgrade in-house accordingly, so comparing a domestic AA or even an A top to an Asian AA grading could well be meaningless. The Pinnacles may be offered only in sunburst because the wood is not good enough cosmetically for a natural finish, which is usually how the decision for sunbursts & solid colors is made.
It's perfectly possible to build spectacular sounding instruments from supposedly inferior wood grades, and equally, clunkers from fine wood stock. It's not so much about the materials but the skill of the builders, so let your hands, eyes & ears decide, not the catalog spec. |
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Location: Parkersburg, WV | Paul T.
Speaking of "posible spectacular sounding instruments", did you get a chance to check on your Folklore during the Ovation tour?
Patsbro |
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Location: Scotland | I know it's under way, that's all. The waiting is killing me. I did pick up my '67 Deluxe Balladeer while I was there, which is a great guitar. |
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Location: California | Paul, it sounds incredible that Ovation only buys AAA grade wood & downgrade internally!!! Do you know how expensive good wood costs today? In the cost cutting age, it does not make sense at all. If it were correct, Ovation would be DUMB not to give any grading on Elite Special's spruce top. Not even A. No grading!
Do you think the grade AA solid spruce on Pinnacle is different from those grade AA on Elite/Legend? |
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Location: Scotland | I am more than aware of the cost of tonewoods & have posted on that very topic on several occasions, I was merely passing on information we were given during the tour. Tonewoods are graded according to numerous criteria, much of it purely visual, & one wholesaler's or lumber mill's idea of LAA, AA, HAA, triple-A, mastergrade or whatever can be completely different from another. Ultimately it is up to the manufacturer to buy and grade according to their standards. The cost difference to a bulk purchaser between AA & AAA grade spruce is often hardly worth considering and all large scale guitar manufactures reject a significant proportion of the woods they source. Yes I would expect doubleA spruce on an import to be "different" to doubleA on a USA guitar unless they are the same species, from the same region, quarter-sawn & dried in the same way, but as I said, ignore the catalog spec & use your senses. |
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Location: California | Why the wood on Elite Special does not get any grading? Not even A?
At the same time, Ovation does not forget to grade the wood used on Elite/Legend (AA), Collector 2003 (AA), New Folklore (AAA) ...
Do you think the OP30, bowl, neck, bridge on Pinncle are different from those on Elite Special? For example, Korean cheap plastic for bowl, Korean cheap electronics inside OP30, ... Quite unlikely. It's more cost effective to ship everything in one shipment & assemle parts there.
In fact, some electronics inside OP40 & OP50 could be from Korea. Your Adamas could be made by Korean too ... if there are some Koreans working at Ovaiton, CT. I don't really care about the origin of material. Quality is more important. When you look inside Jaguar or Ford, you may find parts from Asia. Take a look at the Samsung cell phones. One of the best in the world.
The Korean made Ovation could be as good, if not better, as the USA models. It's really up to the American/white boss in the USA. Don't blame Korean or Korea. It's not their faults. |
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Location: Scotland | I don't think anyone was throwing "blame" around. I think we can take it that if a USA guitar is not specified as "AA" or "AAA" then it has an "A" top. Forget the catalog spec, the grading of the wood doesn't matter. If a guitar sounds & plays well & makes you happy, that's what matters.
If you are really into spruce grading, there is also LA (low grade A) & B, both of which are considered paint grades, though not many USA makers use grades this low. They won't neccesarily sound different to an A or above, they just don't look as nice.The prettiest wood is usually kept for natural or transparent finishes. A high strength to weight ratio is a main factor in spruce grading, many of the other factors are cosmetic. |
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Location: SoCal | "American/white boss in the USA"????
What the hell does that mean? |
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Location: Indiana | I'm buying the PD. Now, web or local? Who is the American/white boss anyway? I don't get out much. |
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Location: NJ | ". . . For example, Korean cheap plastic for bowl, . . ."
As we learned on the Tour, all Korean models now use the same US-made bowls as their domestic siblings. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Does the Pinnacle or Pinnacle deluxe have the Kaman bar in the neck? I don't know if any of the Korean models have the Kaman bar....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Scotland | As far as I'm aware the K-bar is currently used on USA guitars only. Any USA guitars with head-end adjusment, such as the 2002 collectors or the Folklore use standard neckrods, not the K-bar. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Yeah, OK, so how does a "K-bar" differ from a "traditional" truss rod? I gather it adjusts from inside the body, anyway. What are it's advantages? |
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Location: Queens, NY | Hey Paul (Templeman), about the Pinnacle you said, "They both have the 2 piece Mahogany necks, yes, but the Pinnacle will undoubtedly be Nato, a much cheaper & less stable species."
I may have to disagree with you on that one. The reason being is that Ovation has never tried to pass off a Nato neck as Mahogany before. On the Celebrity, they've always said "Nato neck". |
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Location: California | Hey Tony, Paul T told us " ... but as I said, ignore the catalog spec & use your senses."
It's ludicrous to see how people can think of the worst in Korean model & best in the USA one.
For example,
(1) non-graded wood on USA model is grade AAA
(2) grade AA wood on Korean model is not really AA
(3) 2-piece mahogany neck on Korean model is acutally nato
I don't believe Ovation would misrepresent their products & try to deceive the customers. Ovation is a pretty old fashion & conservative company. Good old, traditional American value! |
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Location: Scotland | Interpret my ramblings any way you want, but please do not put words into my mouth. There is no such thing as "non-graded wood" in guitar manufacture. Nato is a species of mahogany native to Asia.
What's the problem here? We're talking about entry to mid-level guitars, built overseas. Comparing them to domestic intruments in the same or similar price range is not valid. Hey, I am not certain that Pinnacle necks are Nato or not, but my best educated guess would be that they are. However I am absolutely sure they do not ship over a bunch of North or South American, European or African mahogany to build Pinnacle or Celeb necks. There are Asian species of woods as good, but they cost about the same. The fact is that guitars built to a specific price-point in the east, for sale in the West, involve compromises. This may be in materials, quality control, finish or whatever. The bottom line is, if you want a guitar for professional use, which will last a lifetime and be reliable and consistent night after night and have it be repairable if it fucks up or gets damaged (try fixing a plywood top or an unstable neck) then you need to pull out some more dough. That statement applies to any manufacturer, not just Ovation. The more observant of you will have noticed that I didn't get into tone or sound quality here, which is way too subjective. Consistency, long-term stabilty & reliability are not subjective. The fact that the domestic guitars carry a lifetime warranty to the original owner speaks volumes. Why don't one of you ask Kaman (that's the company, not Bill personally) what grade/species of wood they use to make the imports & how they & their construction methods differ from the USA models, i'm sure you'll be enlightened.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the imports, they are fine guitars for the money. Read that last sentence again, and again, and again, till it makes sense.
Seesquare, the k-bar is an integral part of the way the neck bolts to the bowl. Non K-bar Ovations use something close to a traditional dove-tail neck joint. I'm not sure that the K-bar is necessarily any better or worse than a standard neckrod |
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Location: Indiana | Hey guys,ease up, I just wanted some input on a PD & ES. Did'nt mean to start a global conflict. (Paul T, your accent doesn't show up on my screen, mate) The best advice I've read was let your senses decide. I'm not a pro so the PD will work fine for me. Having said that , I would love to have an Adamas sitting in my den and I'm sure I will, some day, if I keep playing.I'm pretty sure I'll still be able to strum a few cords long after I can no longer swing a golf club or ride my Fuji. I'm pretty sure the PD will still be a fine instrument when I buy the Adamas. My GC12 has a little dip in the neck now , but I could never sell it.It was the first and it still sounds great. I'm sure I'll get just as attached to the PD. If I were making a living plucking wires, then maybe I would be more concerned about which would last longer over which sounded a little better. The bottom line is, we all have Ovations, in one form or another. We all love them for our own reasons. I guess if they meet Ovation USA standards, and the people we play for are still saying,"That sounds great!" (or whatever they say today), and it still makes us feel good to own one, it doesn't really make any difference if it's OUSA or OK. It's still O so good. (peace & love)(dude) |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I was looking at a new Ovation catalog today and it says the Pinnacle has a two piece mahogany neck, and the Celebritys are listed with a nato neck. I looked at the neck of a Pinnacle today, and it was beautiful mahogany. Nice grain to the wood. Very nice......Paul Hebert |
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Location: Scotland | Yeah, I can identify wood species just by looking at it too. Actually, sarcasm aside, in most cases I can. At the risk of flogging a dead horse, can you tell the difference between Alpine, Sitka, Adirondak or Englemann spruce without reference to a catalog or spec sheet? Could you tell the diffence between say, Ovankol & Sapelle, or Brazillian Rosewood & Ziracote, or for that matter Brazillian & Indian rosewood. There are countless species of woods suitable for making guitars, some are better than others in terms of appearance, stabilty, availability, cost & sustainabilty (environmentally speaking) others cost more because of scarcity and/or snob value. The bottom line is that inexpensive instruments do not use premium materials, regardless of what the marketing may suggest. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Dang Paul T, I am just telling you what I read. GEEEEZZZZZ....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Scotland | no, you were telling me what you thought you saw on a guitar |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Paul T, read my first sentence. I said I read mahogany in the catalog. And yes I did look at the neck of the guitar. And yes it was pretty. I don't claim to have vast knowledge of various types of woods. I just liked the look of the neck on that guitar. I also like the look of the walnut neck on my Adamas. So what? Who cares? Lighten up!...Paul Hebert |
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Location: Scotland | I have absolutely no need to lighten up, I am half way through my second bottle of Chilean Red & am light enough thank you. I agree with you absolutely, I have been saying "So What, who cares?" all through this thread. I just feel the need to point out that if you buy a pint, you shouldn't expect a quart.
As I said a couple of posts ago "There is absolutely nothing wrong with the imports, they are fine guitars for the money. Read that last sentence again, and again, and again, till it makes sense"
I'm off on a 10 day tour of the UK in the morning, so I need to go change strings, repair a few cables and pack an extra pair of underpants. 2 pairs should be enough. I won't be able to check in as often. Have fun while I'm gone |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Paul T, have fun on your tour. What guitars are you bringing with you on the tour?....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Scotland | The usual for acoustic shows, Adamas SMT, Legend for slide, Mandolin & my '57 8-string Ricky lap-steel. |
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Pinnacle question