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Location: So. Cal. | I do not personally owned any Celebrities, however, I have heard on this board that a lot of them don't sound all bad. When you consider the low price of such "Ovations", it definitely has a place in the market. Having a nice entry level product is important to increase market share. More people will get to know and own the brand. When they are ready, they will want to own the higher end models.
Martin has Sigma, Fender has Squire, Gibson has Epiphone and the list goes on.
The only problem is Ovation USA is NOT exposed enough. When the buyer is ready to upgrade, he/she might end up with a high end Martin/Taylor/Collins etc. All I am saying is Ovation USA has some very nice guitars, now let the world know!
Just me and my Adamas! |
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Location: Dallas | LMAO....my sentiments exactly. However, I consider Applause the Epiphone or Squier of Ovation. My CV68 is way too fine an instrument for me to submit to that category. I fully support the buying of American products, and intend to go just as big as I can when finances & opportunity accidentally have simultaneous orgasm (translation: Custom Legend or Adamas). There is a pecking order of sorts - Adamas hardcores are best friends with, but talk behind the backs of Custom Legend owners, who will invite Balladeer folks for dinner, but don't want them to spend the weekend. The Balladeerers talk pleasantly to Celebrity ownerds &, but don't want them at their house, dating their daughter, or to be seen with them in public. The Celeb fans won't associate with "those Applause people", who are generally cool with everyone except those who drool & can't feed themselves....and people with Ebola Virus...Applause people can't stand people with Ebola Virus....
LMAO - OK just entertaining myself. KD |
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Location: Ct./ USA | AH.... BUILT IN AMERICA. WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY TO BUILD EVERYTHING IN AMERICA. POLITICS BEING WHAT THEY ARE WILL NOT PERMIT IT. KOREA ! BULL....! WHAT WAS DESIGNED HERE SHOULD BE BUILT HERE. LET THE KOREANS DESIGN AND BUILD THEIR OWN PRODUCTS. |
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Location: Dallas, GA, USA | I have to keep my Celeb and my Balladeer in seperate rooms. When the Adamas arrives I'll probably have to build a guest house. :) |
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Location: Simsbury, CT | I cannot speak for all Applause owners, but as for myself, I never met anyone with the Ebola virus, and thus can neither support nor refute the statement concerning those folks. I do however get along with most musicians, regardless of brand name. Then again, I've gotten along with people who play washboards and spoons.
As far as the Celebrity is concerned, its not a bad playing instrument, but I am holding for something on the higher end of the spectrum. (I became quite spoiled on the factory tour) |
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Location: Queens, NY | I own a CC01 and a CS247, so you won't catch me knocking Korean Ovations. I think they're nice guitars and great value for the money. (Although the factory tour has me thinking about trading in the CS247 for a Balladeer 1771!) |
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Location: NJ | Hey, Tony!!
How's that new Folklore Deluxe doing?? |
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Location: Queens, NY | Hi Cliff,
The Folklore Deluxe is resting comfortably, thank you! I plan to put a humidifier in it shortly. (Something I never had to worry about with my cheaper laminated tops.) I also won't put it in the trunk of my car anymore. I later read that was a no-no.
I did an unfair comparison a couple of weeks ago:
Folklore Deluxe versus my Celebrity CC01 and Celebrity Deluxe CS247. What a difference (even for my tone deaf ears)!! |
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Location: Dallas, GA, USA | I certainly won't knock Korean O's either. My Celeb Deluxe sounds pretty darn good- it has gotten favorable comments from many who have heard or played it (some of which own guitars considerably more expensive). It was a cheapie that I bought, and after I undid all the stupid things that had been done to it to foul it up, it plays well. Somebody had cranked the truss rod up tight enough that the neck curved out around the fifth fret bad enough that it could NOT be played without bad buzzes, and rather than shave the bottom of the saddle to lower the action this guy just cut deep V's in the saddle, which killed the tone. After I spend a couple of hours getting it worked out, I bet he'd have regretted selling it if he could have played it. My '82 Balladeer sounds better, but the Celeb is much easier to play. I guess it's the neck size, as the action on both is the same height now. |
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Location: California | The Korean made Os are darn good,especially the latest versions with OP30 preamp.
Look at the Pinnacle & Pinnacle Deluxe. AA grade solid Sitka Spruce top with abalone everywhere.AA solid wood top - same level as Elite & Legend!! Better than Elite Special (non-graded top). Most, if not all, parts are the same as those used in the USA models.
Hope Ovation won't lay off people in the USA & do most things off-shore. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | RSW, the Pinnacle is an awesome guitar. I played one the other day, and it compared very well with a Balladeer. The fretwork looked great, and the finish was flawless. Very nice guitar, I hope they catch on well. I was very impressed..Paul Hebert |
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Location: California | Pinnacle & Pinnacle Deluxe could kill Elite Special & Balladeer easily: better solid wood top (AA vs no grade), gold tuners with pearl buttons vs chrome tuners, same neck, same bowl, same OP30 preamp, etc. Almost everything is better or at least as good as the Elite Special/Balladeer. At $600 (street price), they are bargain. Ovation should give them some marketing push. |
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Location: Queens, NY | The Pinnacles look like really nice guitars, although it makes me wonder what Ovation was thinking from a marketing standpoint, because if you ignore where they're made, they appear to be as good as (if not better) than the US made Balladeer and Elite Special. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | What would be the major difference between the Elite Special, and the Pinnacle Deluxe? Both have solid tops, both have two piece necks with rosewood fingerboards. Are they the same? How do they differ in construction? Anyone know? .....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Indiana | Could the difference simply be price and pride? Or do we charge more for American made because we really do make them better? I'm going to buy a PD or an ES as soon as you all make up my mind. :rolleyes: |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | Depends on what your priorities are... |
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Location: SoCal | This brings up an interesting comparison. List on the Elite Specials is about $200 more than on the Pinnacle Deluxe. The specs on the PD look better than on the ES. I have no idea which is better. I suspect that the warranty on the ES is longer and better.
Anybody have any insight? |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Most people when they hear Korean made think "Cheap" as in poor Craftsmanship/Materials but they should think "inexpensive" as in low in Cost/Labor. Like RSW & moody,p.i. mentioned above that if the specs on the PD is better than that of the ES and the PD uses quality Woods,Tuners,Preamps,etc better than the ES and that the PD is "Less Expensive" than the ES, I suspect (IMHO) that the difference would only be the warranty? (Lifetime vs ?)
Currently all my Os are US made but if I found a "deal" on a nice import O, I would buy! (most of the imports in my neck of the woods are usually "rode hard and put up wet")
Mike :cool: |
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Location: So. Cal. | I am really thrilled to see so many fellow OFC'ers taking interest in this thread. Let me point out that Samsung is one of the top supplier of LCD/Flat panel and cell phones in the world. I used to run when I saw "Made in Korea". The fact remains, if it's a quality product, it shouldn't matter where it's made. That said, the design of a product still remains the most important part of a product; and here we have "USA Design - Made in (where-ever)". We should still be proud, right?!
Just me and my Adamas! |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Well put playadamas! - Use to be "Made in Japan" meant "junk" but now they are world leaders in electronics & video gamming also I have a Japanese made Fender P-Bass that rivals some US Fenders in quality/fit & finish! A lot of folks envision Korean made Ovations being assembled by mamasan & papasan in a grass hut using crude tools & ox sh*t as adheasives - I've never seen the factory where they are made (maybe cwk2 could enlighten us more) but I'm sure it ain't no grass hut! When I was in the Army in the early '70's I had buddies who had done tours of Korea(I never got to go over) but they would return with some of the most beautifully made & good sounding copies of Martin & Gibsons that if you didn't look at the peghead it would never beleive they were imports and back then you could get one with all the "whistles & bells" sometimes under $100!! I was just so "Young" "Dumb" & .....I wish I would have aquired some of them,but.....
...Got to go get a bowl of kimchi-Mike :cool: |
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Location: Scotland | Far-East factories are capable of making guitars just as good as the USA or anywhere else given the chance. The problem is they cost just as much, & most people won't pay that kind of money for an import. The price-point & ultimately the quality of imported instruments is dictated by the importer/distributor as being what the consumer is prepared to pay. |
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Location: Indiana | Ok, I can't process much more info, I'll buy the PD, learn to play like the rest of you(hopefully), then , I'll buy the Adamas. The very first guitar I bought was a Framus 12 I bought in a little shop in Italy. An ex-wife destroyed it and when I went shopping to replace it I saw the Ovation GC 12 and that was that. I've thought about getting a 6 from time to time over the years, but I've never considered another brand. I've never had anyone pick up my guitar that didn't love it and of course wonder why someone who plays as badly as myself would be doing with such an instrument. I think Ovation must be like Harley is to motorcycle people, if you ride or play, sooner or later you're going to want one. :D |
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Location: Dallas | ......Oh, Boy - this is better than The shiite I'd hoped playadamas & I stirred up. This is the best thread I've read on this controversy. I was actually quite surprised that this thread was still active when I logged on. God bless you guys & regards.....KD |
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Location: NJ | every 12 string framus I ever owned could shoot arrows. what a piece of crap |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | As I've said before, in the 70's Japan was eating Martin and Gibson's lunch with much better and cheaper acoustics, there is no question that the Asians can build quality and do it for a good price. The only problem might be the availability of guitar quality wood, Japan cornered the market for a short time but I think the Americans learned a lesson and did a little market control of their own. The best spruce as I recall came from ancient trees of large cross section, smaller trees of the tree farm type led to spiral sawing to get wide pieces. Visualize a section of a log as wide as an acoustic guitar, there isn't much of that in a tree. Plant some spruce and in about 200 years you can build some awesome guitars. |
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Location: Indiana | every 12 string framus I ever owned could shoot arrows. what a piece of crap
how many pieces of crap did you buy? |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | There has been a lot of talk about "labor" being the main cost difference in the import line (and I may have even written that in another thread) but I was also thinking that most of the major tech countries outside the US have a bit of a technology leap on us for several reasons and that cuts cost also. It's not a huge techno leap, but due in part to import laws, a lot of good computer tech doesn't hit here in the US for several years after it is on the ground elsewhere.
A lot has to do with some thing that I believe Mr. Gates said at the technology conference in Geneva a couple of years ago that while the US is designing and building faster chips, Europe and Asia (primarily) is writing software and firmware to use that technology.
I can only imagine the technology in one of those big computer driven routers and the circuit etching tools must be unbelievable.
I'm glad to see the point that our imports are built to a U.S. SPECIFICATION. They are not "copies" of the US models that some foriegn company dreamed up. They are building EXACTLY what they are being payed and told to build. I think many folks are starting to realize that Ovation is not just importing guitars to be "cheap" or "save money", they are importing guitars to offer a good instrument, as high a quality as possible, in every pricepoint so anyone can own one. I know many of us have talked down about the import quality, but the other side of the coin is that even an Applause, which I believe is the entry level, outplays most of the other guitars available for the same price. |
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Location: Indiana | I believe you could be right. How well it's built will always out weigh how much it cost to build it. At least it should, I think. |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | Alot of good points are being made via foreign vs domestic when it comes to O's. I might like to add that unless you don't mind traveling to Southeast Asia for your next factory tour, that if there's no neglible difference between U.S. made vs Asian made, hopefully you'd consider O's made in CT. After all, what do guitar manufacturers do to make up for poor sound quality? "Polish the turd" as they say by dressing them up with all the visual appointments. It's the "all hat, no cattle" argument- as the cowboys like to say. I will concede that I've never had the opportunity to play a Pinnacle Deluxe against an Elite Special- Hell I'm still trying to figure out what a $5000.00 Martin has that my $400.00 Ovation (USA) doesn't have... but if I find out, I'll be sure to share! |
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Location: Zion, Illinois | $5000 Martin vs an Ovation????
Here's how I explained it to the wife.
I strummed the Martin... NICE
I strummed the Elite 1537 I got from EBay for $549... Nice at first, but then I heard this loud metallic sound.
Strummed the $5000 Martin again... NICE
Strummed my 1537 - Nice, but then I heard that loud metallic sound again
After much trial and error I finally figured out what that noise was...
That loud metallic sound was the $4400+ spare change, left over after buy my Ovation, rattling around in my back pocket. ;)
Bradley |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | Nicely put, Bradley! Couldn't have said it better myself!
I'd like to add that the GC I work at, recently took in a used Balladeer (USA). I looked at it and marvelled that we were only asking $199.00 for it (with the OHSC). It was in great condition :) I said to myself out loud "...hmmm only $199.00, that's quite a deal..." Another guitar salesman heard me say this and replied, " I wouldn't pay $1.99 for that guitar!" (Remember that it was in great condition, just another case if Ovation snobbery). I had the pleasure of replying "...you really are in idiot..." I really didn't feel the need to educate him, just felt like being brutally honest... my bad?? I don't think so :D |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "That loud metallic sound was the $4400+ spare change, left over after buy my Ovation, rattling around in my back pocket. "
Bradley, I am actually laughing out loud... that is so dead-on, so well put.... |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Before church today this guy I know bought over his new Ovation for me to see. It was a CC059 Celebrity classic guitar. I must say it was nice. It had a Cedar top, and played quite well. So I asked him if I could play it at church today and he said yes. Great little guitar. It sounded really good plugged in the PA also. Only thing I didn't like was the shallow bowl, but it is a very well made guitar....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Bradley
You hit it on the head, as a provider of instruments for two sons who were playing in my band in CA some years ago, that "$4400" is what allowed us all to have pretty good $400 guitars instead of bragging rights to Dad's one instrument: e.g. "My dad has a Martin, but he can't afford a band cause we don't have anything to play, but we're sure proud that he has that $5000 guitar locked up in his room, even though he won't let any body touch it. Guess I'll light up a joint and chill out, as I probably will never have a Martin like my dad has." My boys made it through the CA dope scene unscathed because they were busy playing and trying to become professional and they got to be better than me so that $5000 Martin would have been a waste of money.
Bailey |
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Location: NJ | unfortunately if the guitar is not going for its proper value it hurts consumer user and seller all around everyone loses. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Al
Quit salivating every time someone says "$5000". |
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Location: NJ | bailey
go feed the burros make them strong like bull. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Well, I am trying to get together a couple thousand for a 12 string, but 5 grand is tooo much. Does this mean I'll have to find somebody who will deal with a broken down prospector on a well fed burro, with an excess of gold dust in his pouch to get the guitar I want. You big town merchants only want to deal with guys that look like Liberache.
Bailey |
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Location: Waterloo, IL | What ended up happening to the $199 Balladeer? Did you decide to buy it, or did another lucky customer decide to pick it up? At that price, I would seriously consider picking it up if possible.
Chuck
Floating somewhere in the Middle East. |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | Chuck,
A savvy picker snapped it up before the end of my shift :(
I could already hear my wife- "...but honey, why don't you let someone ELSE have a good deal??" LOL |
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Korean Ovation is not a bad thing!