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June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Lots of talk here recently about blind tests, effect of headstock angle and type of bowl material on sound quality. I love these kinds of discussions. Let me throw out another one. Some of my favorite sounding Ovations are the old shiny bowls and I have several different ones from these era. The one that really impresses me is an old Balladeer with the chainlink ribbon rosette. The sound is incredibly open and clear as a bell. An interesting thing about this guitar and some of the other old ones, is that the soundboard is made of three spliced pieces of spruce, insted of the usual two pieces. I'd like to hear some opinions if this 3 board assembly might actually be part of the reason it sounds better than the rest. Dave |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Dave, I'd say not, theres's no real reason why a three-piece top should sound significantly different from a two-piece. I seem to recall 3-piece tops were used on the early guitars because that was the width of the lumber stock used for helicopter rotor-blades (though I might have dreamt that) rather than any acoustic reason. As the price of quality tonewoods rises we may find 3 or 4 piece tops become a common feature. Taylor already use 3-pieces on their acoustic bass. A 3-piece top shouldn't sound any better & equally it shouldn't sound any worse. |
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May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Dave & Paul T
I agree to disagree, I think if a guitar sounds particularly good, it is a result of the combination of the parts that went into it and the sum total. That would mean that the 3 piece top contributed in some way. In another configuration, maybe it wouldn't work as well. A particular guitar is the aggregate of all it's parts and the techniques that were used to assemble it. That makes guitars almost as hard to predict as the stock market, we can say what will be good, but can only guess at what will be great.
Bailey |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Yes a guitar is the sum of it's parts, that was my point entirely. Changing one part of the sum (such as a 2/3 piece top) will not significantly impact on the sound if all the other parts remain constant. The basic construction of the early 3-piece topped guitars was identical to the 2-piece tops which followed apart from a few minor cosmetic details (we're talking early-production shiny-bowl guitars, not comparing Dave's guitar to later 2-piece tops) As Bill pointed out in an earlier post, bowl,lining, finish & headstock-angle changes, which did have an effect on the sound, did not begin until later than the guitars Dave was referring to. Wood is inherently variable
& unpredictable. In this case I'd suggest it's this varibility which is more likely to account for the tonal difference than the method of construction. |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | What's that old saying about the total being better than the sum of the parts? And I guess it's true that even if you had two identical sets of starting materials and built two identical guitars, they would/could have somewhat different voices. Remember we're dealing with natural materials here (wood tops) and even some variance in assembly which I suspect was much less consistent on the first hundred or so guitars that it was on later guitars. I think Bill said someplace that even though they were all supposed to all be the same, for reasons unknown there was an occasional clunker. Even though I'm the one who posted the original question of this thread, I guess the truth is that it matters not to me WHY this guitar sounds so nice, but rather I'm just thrilled that it DOES. I guess it's like a bottle of really nice wine. You can analyze the hell out of it (climate, soil type, harvest date, blah, blah, blah). Or you can just drink it say "Damn that was nice". Of course there will always be those who would rather prefer a luke warm can of Budweiser, and that's fine as well. Dave |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | The sound difference between a 2 and 3 piece top is the same as between a foam cap and wood carved cap adamas. And then it depends on the strings. |
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Joined:
December 2002
Posts: 19
| A great player can make you never notice a lousy guitar, and a bad player can't make a great guitar sing.
Now, that doesn't mean that it's not nice to play a good guitar it only means that nobody else will notice either way. It's all in the player.
I have seen guys pick up a $200 guitar and wow the crowd. Thats what I like to see. Tim
ps. This doesn't have anything to do with how a 2 or 3 piece top sounds, I just thought I would through it in. |
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Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | KB5, so true! For anyone who has been to a NAMM show. Ever heard a bad guitar there? doesn't exist. Got to get it out of that room and in the hands of an average Joe and then you'll know. |
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Soundboards - Two Boards or Three ???