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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I searched the archives and I didn't see this question ever directly addressed (maybe I missed it), so I thought I would bring it up. How did the Slothead become the Adamas, and why? Also why wasn't there a full "run" of the Slothead? From what I have heard, the sound of Cliff's is not unique to his guitar. An Adamas sounds great, and so do several other models like the 2001 Collectors, but what little I heard, in a crowded guitar show no less from that Slothead, put it in a category all its own. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Miles, the Adamas slothead was a pretooling production run..The headstock and bridge and heel were hand carved out of one peice of wood.The carving on the headstock was not attached to the headstock later,it is all one peice.This process took a long time and im guessing it was expensive...The higher ups at Ovation decided that a machine made carving(out of foam)was the way to go and they made the foam "Acanthus leaf" design and glued it to the headstock..To me this was a cheap way of doing things on a "top of the line" expesive guitar but this is what they chose to do..When the production tooling run began they took away the beautiful carved heel,they took away the one piece headstock carving and cheapened things on the adamas...I want to also ad about the difference in the sound of the slothead adamas and the tooling production adamas .I personally feel that the slotheads sound better because of the trus rod..The slots had your basic trus rods and not the "kaman bar"..The kaman bar is a great design for keeing the neck streight and all but i feel it takes away sound..The early slot heads had a traditional trus rod which is not as deadining to the sound as the large bulky kaman bar..This is my opinion and i have seveal adamas' and have compared them many times..I really feel he difference is in the trus rod...Anyone else feel that way or have an opinion on this ? |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Thanks Sam, and what about the Slothead design itself, they went to a different headstock totally. I have only heard the one slothead, and I would agree it's louder and tonally richer than any guitar I have ever heard. It literally made a noisey room full of people turn around and take notice as soon as one chord was strummed. Don't get me wrong, both my Adamas and Adamas II sound great, but if I had to use a scale, Slothead at 10, Adamas at 8 Adamas II at 7.5 and then everything else. I guess we are assuming cost was the factor in not actually tooling to make the same as the prototypes. |
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Location: NJ | If my memory serves me well, CWK2 stated it was the angle of the headstock needed to accomdate the slot tuners that gave the slothead a different sound.
Sam the K bas is much different than the standard truss rod but I think it is really the top that has the most to do with the sound as opposed to the neck. Sure more metal in the neck will have some effect (or is it affect I always get those confused).
for my money I will take a woven textured top adamas it is is a slot head, I, II, deep or super shallow over almost any other guitar out there. There is something about that textured top that really sounds great. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Al you jogged my gray stuff. Yes, it was the angle the headstock had to be in that would change the sound, or at least the sustain factor. I would guess the truss rod plays into that in some way, but unless I'm about to get an ed-u-ma-cation... There was never a slothead with the K-Bar truss system so we'll never know how much affect it had. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Could this be one of the reasons that the Folkore Deluxe sounds so damn good - slothead with truss rod? Dave |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Guys, there are many factors in why the slotheads sound better than the other production adamas..If we really want to get technical ,lets look at the foam carving as apposed to the solid one piece carved headstock.Would you all agree that a piece of foam glued on to the wood headstock absorbs or deadins sound? So, that to me is another small factor...The slotted headstock with the more angled headstock is absolutely another factor in the sound..The one that clearly makes the most difference to me though is the kaman bar..If any of you have ever seen how bulky this kaman bar thing is.It literally takes up the whole neck inside.There is not much room for wood left once they carve out the neck for a kaman bar..A traditional trus rod like the ones in the slothead adamas is only a 1/4 inch round and leaves most of the neck intact inside..This to me is the major difference in the sound..Although,the other factors like Miles,Bill and Al mention do make a difference in the sound....
Heres a great way we can do a test..Cliff, lets take your slothead apart and hollow out the neck.I have a killer set of tools like Norm on this old house..We will install a kaman bar and see how we all like it?? Common!! what do you say?
I'll start looking for my router tonight!! |
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Location: SoCal | Sam, I doubt that the headstock material makes a quantifible difference in the sound. But I will agree that the angle of the headstock and the material of the interior of the neck probably does. And if I had to pick, I'd think that the angle of the headstock makes a real difference. Remember, the angle was changed on regular Ovations because there were stress problems, not to make the sound better. The shallower angle was a comprimise for structural integrety. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Guys, after all these years I am depressed. I have found out that most likly the headstock carving on my Adamas is FOAM! FOAM, damn that upsets me. Granted it is good looking foam, but it's foam. Ok, let me ask again. Is the headstock carving on my 1981 Adamas 1 foam or wood. Damn, I think it's foam!...AAAAAAWWWWWWWWW.....Paul Hebert |
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Location: Scotland | It's foam, deal with it. If you think your guitar doesn't sound as good now you know the headstock "carve" isn't wood, you have a big problem, which may require medication. Jesus, the top & bowl are synthetic, so what's the big deal with a piece of decoration which until recently you thought was wood? and, more importantly, has NO QUANTIFIABLE INFLUENCE WHATSOVER on the sound? Hey by the way, the "binding" is molded fibreglass, which must add insult to injury. Maybe I'm just a weirdo, but when people comment on the headstock "carving" of my Adamas I take almost too much pleasure in telling them it's a piece of plastic, It fucks with thier heads.
Hey, I have an intersting electric guitar called an Ovation UK2, I thought this was my favourite guitar till somebody said it was foam over aluminium, now I hate it. What's it worth?
Any slot-head guitar, Ovation or anything else, will exert a greater force over the nut than a solid headstock. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Paul H. ,yes its foam but not ordinary foam,its high tech,high density, space age foam..Its very ,very expensive foam..Does that make you feel better? And remember if your ever playing near a campfire,dont hold the headstock near the fire or your carving design may go from ancathus leaf design to a raisin design.....DOOHHH !!
Hey dont worry about it ive got several adamas with the space age headstock... |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Hey guys I feel better. (lol) Someone had told me the headstock carving was foam years ago,and I always wondered about that. It really does not bother me. They sure did a good job on matching the Walnut color of the neck. Does anyone know how the foam headstock carving is painted?...Paul Hebert |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I have a UKII that I actually started leaving the access panel off. No one (including myself when I first saw it) believed the guitar is foam. It is that brownish woodgrain color and looks like some tight grain wood. |
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Location: SoCal | The Ovation book said that in later years (regarding the Adamas headstock), they found somebody who could do the headstock face in wood and they went back to wood from foam. I'm guessing that the headstock face of Big Blue (early 90's Adamas 12) is wood. Therefore it's superior to everybody else.
Bullshit. Who cares? Doesn't make any difference. If it is wood, I'll still tell people it's foam. As Paul T said, "just to fuck with their heads". Usually a worthwhile project. |
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Location: Scotland | The color & grain must be part of the molding process rather than "painted" Take a look at a Baladeer Special or Ultra with the foam necks & rosewood boards. Most people will not realise the necks are synthetic, they look so much like mahogany. |
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Location: SoCal | What always drove me nuts about the first 10 years of Adamii production was that it looked like the top two inches of the headstock was dipped in a darker laquer than the rest of the headstock. Anybody got any ideas as to why? |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Paul,the headstock on my 1981 Adamas 1 is really well done. I know now that the headstock carving is some type of foam, but it sure looks like wood. The carvng is an exact match in color to the rest of the headstock. I wonder how they got such a good woodgrain look to it?....Paul Hebet |
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Location: NJ | ". . . Heres a great way we can do a test..Cliff, lets take your slothead apart and hollow out the neck.I have a killer set of tools like Norm on this old house..We will install a kaman bar and see how we all like it?? . . ."
Whatta friggin' PAL!!! :D
I am the owner of only ONE (1) SlotHead!!!!
HOW MANY do YOU have Sam!
I think if ANYONE was to make the "ultimate sacrifice" of one of their "babies" for the betterment of our "society" it should be one of YOURS!!! :D (Besides, you have the router.)
To me, I think a lot of the "sound" has to do with the top. Granted, I really don't have much experience with other Adamases (and they may in fact ALL be this way), but the top of my SlotHead is VERY, VERY responsive. There are times when I can sing certain notes within proximity to the guitar, you almost get a "backwash" effect where the top vibrates and subtely causes the coordinating string to ring. I now have it hanging on the wall in the living room near where I always sit, and often when watching a movie, certain frequencies cause subtle reverberations from the guitar. I don't know if there was ever any major (or minor) difference in the top material(s) between these guitars and their production successors, but to me the top seems to be so AMAZINGLY thin and resilient!
Perhaps another note to consider is the whole hand-laid glass cloth factor that seedubb alluded to earlier. (And lets not forget all of that sound-reflective gold glitter! ;) )
On the topic of the neck:
Sam; mine has a graphite "bar" running along the back of the length of the neck (see gallery pics).
Do either (or both) of yours have this as well?
Did they all have this? And if not, which ones and why? (Bill?).
Hopefully, if this site keeps on growing as exponentially as it has been, maybe more of these guitars (and their owners) will surface as I'd really LOVE to get these things "cataloged" and possibly published into a volume with photos, specs and "stories" and such for posterity before they start (shudder!) "disappearing".
Sounds like I now have a "mission" in life. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Cliff, your not being a "team player" here.I could not possibly route my slotheads because they are Part of my ovation musium,so we need to install a kaman bar on yours..So, comon and take one for the team..I found my router!!! :D :D :D
On a more serious note. Both my early adamases #33 and #57 have the graphite strip on the back of the neck.I believe all of the slotheads have graphite on the neck although i have not seen them all.. |
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Location: NJ | yet. |
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Location: SoCal | In the 70's Ovation was playing a bit with the graphite strip in the neck for strength. My Preach Deluxe 12 string has one as do, I believe, all the solid body 12 strings of that era. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | A few points.
1. the foam carving doesn't do a fucking for the sound, one way or the other. It can mess with the sound your eyes hear but not your ears. It is an 8 # density polyurethane foam. The model was made from mahogony and we made a silicone rubber mold (the blue rubber) for the part. color denotes hardness in the duromiter on the silicone
2. The angle of the paghead affects the sound to a point. 7* to a 14* is a big difference. The slot heads, and all slotted type headstocks are probably a sharper angle than 14* so they will all sound good.
3. Kbars changing the sound. It happens somewhat but why? The construction and space in the neck is one factor but I think a minor one. The bigger is that the KBar is bolted onto the body. the old ones were glued on. BIG DIF here!
4. The most significant thing we did for balance was to have the bass bolt (top)turn to the left and the treble bolt(bottom) turn th the right. This helped fine tune the output sound of the early Adamas guitars. It didn'twork on the slotheads since they were glued and it didn't work on the ones after 1982 when the head piece was walnut. For that interium time be careful how the bolts are tweeked. It can really knock the guitar off it's fundamental frequency if it gets out of adjustment. Make it sound like it was make it sound like it was made in France. And you know the French, they never believed in using washers either.
5. so glad Marcel isn't around to see this. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | to correct a small point. The Slothead was not preproduction tooling. When we started them it was full steam ahead! However after a few months it becams clear that the costs were through the ceiling and there had to be some changes. So that's why production stopped and it was redesigned. It ran for about a year and was down for about a year. That's when the kbar came in and the different neck attachment and the foam scroll, a different design on the outside of the ring and all the rest. |
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Location: NJ | I think if they produced a slothead now even as a special order item they would have a bunch sold in Japan and Europe alone |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | With more and more acoustic singer/songwriter acts hitting the charts these days, the time seems ripe to let the these early inovations be availabe, even if by custom order only. Who knows, they may find a demand. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | "They may find a demand"
Gotta look for it before you can find it. Gotta know what you're lookin for before you know where to look.
Mostly you gotta want to. |
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Slothead to Adamas....