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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | I don't know how many of you get Elderly Instruments mail catalogue but the latest just came in my mail. On the last page there are the Martin Limited and Special Editions for 2002. There are 22. TWENTY TWO!! And within these there are 5 alternatives making the total 27. Where is a dealer in the country who will stock all these? Who is asking for these models? And they are digging deep for some of these. A Judy Collins model?? Godfrey Daniels?? And a Ned Steinberger (yes the same headless bass guy) and a Del McCoury model? I have no idea who he is but you can get it with OR without his signature at the 20th fret. They have been doing this for a while. It's totally stupid.
Martin has a great reputation and has made great guitars for a looong time. We all know how desirable a prewar D-45 is or a Herringbone. Fifty years from now is anybody going to give a shit about which guitar is more rare, the one with or without Del McCoury signature? Or any of the multitude of CEO choices because he couldn't make up his mind? Or pick one of the 4 Clapton models.
I raise the point because it's funny to see something so out of control. It's sad to see it happening. This is what happens when you totally run out of ideas for the Collectors Series. This will all just be very muddy water in Martin's history years from now. Most of them are probably pretty good guitars too.
OK, back to the rocker now. |
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November 2002
Posts: 35
Location: Reading, PA | Maybe it will travel full circle back to the 'players' guitar. The Johnny B Public model as it were, complete with shrewteeth inlay, formica pickguard...signed by Joe and hermetically sealed for preservation.
Jim |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Good rant and good points, dubyatoo, but it sounds more to me like "this is what happens when you take venture capital". I don't know for sure and Martin is a very closely-held private company, but several factors lead me to believe they took some form of equity investment ... the major expansion of the line, the immense increase in marketing spend (which generally goes hand in hand with equity funding), the stated expansion into international markets, and ... the fact that the new President and COO was a managing partner at an "investment equity" firm.
If the story unfloded here in my world (Silicon Valley), folks would surmise -- Martin took an equity investment, used the funds to heavily market (per a business plan approved by the investors and focused on driving up sales and the "brand"), widened their product offerings to appeal to a broader consumer base, and ... did not meet the business plan expectations so the "founder" (CF IV) was relegated to a glad handing role and the investors put their own guy in place to institute some operational and financial efficiencies and stop the hemorrhaging.
Of course, I could be all wrong about this, but it will be interesting to watch Martin over the next year and see what goes down. Didn't Taylor also get some equity funding in the recent past? |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | CWK2
Remember the old Martin guitar of the month program? a new special edition guitar every month? I thought that was kinda crazy.
I have a couple of martins and love them but to be honest the idea of one of these new collector's does not appeal to me at all.
the idea that something is an instant collectible is a modern on from the past 20 or so years. What happened was people got into antiques and limited edition items etc. Well now many things are premarketed as collectible and maybe in a limited run of 50K. That is really insane. I think Martin who has ventured out to the electric field on occasion now has gone full circle and is trying to be every acoustic guitar for every customer. They need to concentrate on just being Martin and they will sell just as many guitars. IMHO the under 1K martins are just an embarassment I find nothing good about them.
Well as we apply this to Ovation we see that there is not really a high end guitar in the catalog and nothing to aspire to. We also see a blurring of the name with the USA and imports. In fact on this message board we have seen folks with imports shocked that they did not buy a "real ovation" and also having trouble with customer service. This is a problem as I see it. |
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May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | You guys are really forcing me to answer every post with the same plaintive wail. Put out ONE collectible with the better than Martin sound, call it the dream guitar of Ovation's founders and initial designers. Just call it a GREAT guitar, don't sign it by anyone and guarantee that it will blow any "name" guitar away. Before today's marketing hype that is forced by the Harvard business plan (50 years old, by the way) Martin made good sounding, reliable acoustic guitars in the 40's and 50's when everyone else was making crap, they didn't have to have anybody's signiture to sell them. You bought a Martin and it sounded fine, no doubt about it. Why do you think it was the model for the early Ovations? Now is the opportunity to kick their overhyped ass!! |
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December 2002
Posts: 939
Location: Fort Worth, Texas | This topic makes for good reading, y'all. As a middle of the road consumer I don't get it at all. 27 collectible models in one year? :confused:
Is there any way of knowing how many of these guitars are sold? I guess my point being I will never spend my hard earned cash for such stuff - I'll stick with my Legend and aspire to an Adamas some day - collectible or not....
By the way - Del McCoury is a bluegrass gentleman and has one of the finest bluegrass bands - caught them at the Bass Perfomance Hall last year. Steve Earl recorded an album with them a couple of years ago. They do a great version of Nashville Cats |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | OK, No disrespect meant to Del.
Now it gets better!!!
Those were the 2002 unlimited editions. On another page there are the January 2003 limited editions. There are TWELVE! and with different options add another three. A kingston trio special model with your choice of regular OR large pickguard. Does anybody really fucking care??? And then there are two options for the MTV guitar, satin and gloss. How far down the mine shaft are these guys to dig this up???
Maybe now it's a special order with a 50% surcharge to get a plain vanilla D-28? |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | I went to the Martin website and counted a total of 47 limited editions (Artist-named only - not the Hawaiians, Cowboys, other specials etc) listed there, not counting the various options each of the limiteds have. |
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February 2003
Posts: 26
Location: Florida Space Coast | cwk2
When I browsed the book I blew right on by those SE's and locked on to that 1943 D-18 on the back cover.
Maybe it was the colored picture or maybe it's because the others all just blended together. Which is the problem I think when there's too much of anything. Even if it might be a good thing.
Anybody who has ever tried to polish off a bottle of Johnny Black (or equivalent) in one night knows what I mean :(
And I'm not saying any of those SE's is a good thing but I guess it's all in the eyes of the beholder ;) |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | I'm not making any comment about the guitars, most of them are probably pretty good (except the one with the bigsby and the other "designer" ones)
It's just "Lets make a model of every possible variation of anyone who ever played a Martin publicly or in the privacy of their own home." The public has trouble understanding the line. The dealer never has the right one in stock. The factory has headaches trying to produce it all (Hey, maybe that's where they come from! Dear Mr Marketing, we at the factory just screwed up and made 30 rosewood bodies with mahogony tops, can you go find someone to endorse these so we don't have to scrap them) Don't laugh, it might not be that funny.
And it doesn't stop here. Today at the golf course I asked for a snickers bar. I was told sure, we have those but do you want the regular or the new special one with almonds instead of peanuts................ |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | A Martin MTV model???? I can't wait for the Johnny Knoxville signature Jackass special, complete with skateboard wheels on the case. |
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February 2003
Posts: 26
Location: Florida Space Coast | I fully agree with you Bill. Maybe it has to do with market saturation, to many brands to many models? Trying to create sales that aren’t there? Perhaps it's time for some more consolidation.
Hey marketing guys! I think the electronics is the key to the future. All you have to do is add a processor then an operating system and some software and bingo now everyone has to do a complete upgrade every two years or sooner if a virus reformats your E string :D
Or maybe you've hit on something there dubyatoo. How bout they throw in a Snickers Bar with each Special Edition then you could have the small pick guard and an almond Snickers or a large pick guard and a peanut Snickers or spruce with............ :confused:
I think I best quit. Let's not give them marketeers any more ideas :D |
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May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Marketers don't get ideas, they produce childish tantrums and brilliant statements like "What if we called it peepee, OHH I just said peepee, make sure you're writing this down, the boys at the golf club won't believe this, peepee peepee." Failing kindergarden is a marketing prerequisite.
Bailey :rolleyes: |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Sweetwater sound includes sweetwater taffee with every order and there is a Guitar company in Jersey that includes Pretzels with every order.
and you thought you were joking. |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Failing Kindergarden?
These Marketing guys don't fail kindergarden!! But it is the hardest 12 years of their life. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | the amount of models is confusing to the consumer as well as the vendor. YOu can never be expected to be knowledgeable about them all. a couple of years ago Flendor put out a poster of their stRATs that had about 50 different varieties....I looked at it and laughed. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I guess in many respects Ovation is still pretty conservative. Although there are several "lines" from Adamas, to Elite to Celeb and Collectors, they have not gone the route of some of the competition we've talked about of just making guitars for the sake of making guitars. |
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Marketing out of Control