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Location: NJ | I know many of us have followed the auction on ebay with the ovation bluebird. A custom guitar built for Glen Campbell only 10 or 12 were made very rare etc.
Any thoughts on this guitar. I had some correspondence with the owner and althought I was not given a firm price I was under the impression that it was very high.
Some thoughts. there are a limited amount of collectors of Glem memorabilia out there maybe 25 or 30 years ago it would be more desireable. There are a limited amount of Ovation collectors out there and since the guitar did not sell I assume that they spoke thier piece on what they thought the value of the guitar was.
Although Glen is a great guitarist you would pobably get more money from a korean made strat signed by the members of korn than you would for this gutar. (probably by the hardrock cafe)
Here is a perfect example of a one off celebrity owned guitar that there seems to be only moderate interest in. Collectible sure rare positively but part of collectible and rare is the demand made for the instrument. Put a 59 Lespaul up there and you will tons of bid. I think there were only 6 on this instrument.
Ultimately my thoughts on the guitar is that it is "only a blue viper"..... |
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Location: Scotland | On the subject of Viper colours/finishes. I seem to remember Rick Parfit & Francis Rossi from Status Quo having a brief liason with Vipers in the late 70's. Their guitars appeared to have some kind of Paisley-type finish, similar to the current Fender James Burton Tele. One was white or cream with black paisley-esque patterns. I can't remember the other. They looked extremely cool, but I would agree with Al, it's just a Viper with a fancy finish.
My memory could be playing tricks as I've just found this:
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/4855/NoFrames/Reviews/sep00.ht...
Shows Rossi's natural finish Viper with paisley type carvings (not a factory customisation) Auction estimate £500-£800
[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Paul Templeman ] |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I guess there are LOTS of factors in the value/worth/rare/collect debates... I might actually pay $1000 for a Viper owned by someone like Roy Clark who I admire, but at the same time would not pay that much for the same guitar owned by Glen Campbell or David Cassidy. I also wouldn't be willing to pay more than a few hundred for that early Les Paul... because I'm not a Les Paul style guitar fan. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | I dont know if any of you noticed but the blue bird that was on e-bay had changed pick ups.The pick ups on that one has UK2 pick ups and the original Glen Campbell bluebirds had the same pick ups as the deacon/breadwinners(humbuckers).They may have been changed while Glenn still owned the guitar but they are not the originals.I have owned a bluebird at one time and it had the right pick ups in it.The one for sale on e-bay have been changed..Also, i have a couple of Glen Cambell concert videos from the eightees where he was using his 6 and 12 string bluebird and it had the same pick ups as mine...The other difference about the bluebird is that they used a mahogany neck with the diamond inlays,ebony fingerboard and not a maple dot neck like the regular production vipers...... |
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Location: NJ | Sam
since the guitar was not a production model who is to say the pickups were changed? perhaps he got different guitars with different pickups. I understand you have some old footage etc but unless all 12 bluebirds were sitting on the stage it would be hard to determine. I doubt if any factory records exist and the fact that they are ovation pickups would lead me to believe that the guitar may be original or altered for glen.
I guess what I am trying to say is don;t be so fast to criticize something that was not a production model. I have seen tons of crazy stuff concerning the ovation solid body guitars and nothing seems strnage to me now. For example what is the corrct bridge on the deacon the one with the plastic saddles the chrome bridge or the brass bridge answer all of them and it just depends on when it was made.
I talked to a guy that swears to me he saw a preacher deluxe with a bound body. I have never heard of that called the ovation service department they said they never heard of one but then said that it does not mean it did not come from the factory so who knows
I still think the bluebird is a very cool guitar but not worth anywhere near the asking price of the owner.
[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: alpep ] |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Al, it is very obvious that the UK2's were not introduced until 1980-1981 and Glens Blue birds were built in the early 70's ..So, anyone who "REALLY" knows ovations would know that UK2 pick ups could not have been in the 70's bluebirds..Also, i spoke with the guy who is selling the bluebird(before he listed it on e-bay) on e-bay and asked directly why it had the
uk2 pickups and he said that he thought they had been changed but while Glen owned it to get a different sound..So, there is your proof and evidence...So,AL maybe you should not come to conclusions so fast yourself.... |
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Location: NJ | then that bluebird altered at the factory for and by glen would be the most valuable one of all since it is the only one with that pickup configuration and the rarest |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | That would be if you assume that one bluebird is the only one he altered.Remember there were ten made,so how many were altered?.The fact remains that the UK2 pickups came years later and it is highly unlikely they were the original pick ups in the 70's bluebird..And i think you are incorrect to assume that since it was altered it makes it more valuable.My guess is that an original G.C. bluebird with the original pickups would be more valuable..If you alter it without any documentation from the factory or from the artist, then it is a less desirable guitar.We dont really know who changed it.We only have the word of the guy on e-bay...Thats my view...... |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Guess we were all pretty close to the mark. I dug up some additional information from a reliable source.. "There were about 5 or 6 bluebirds made some were six and some were 12. The bodies were the foam, same as the UK2 body, same as the Matrix and applause necks. They were made in Moosup CT around 1980 +/- a year. That's the same time frame as the UK production. The first Blue Bird's had Preacher pickups which I think really suck. This guitar (that was on eBay) may be one of the last made for Glen and used these pickups or they were swapped out." And for you History buffs... and Glen Campbell fans "There was one of the 6 string bluebirds stollen from Glen's concert in Boston with the Boston Pops. There was also a bluebird made that had the neck a slightly bluegrey color and looked pretty funny."
Pretty interesting story/history lesson I think. One of the more "colorful" stories.(pun intended). |
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Location: NJ | miles
great detective work on the bluebird history.
this is the type of information and free exchange of facts that I had envisioned for this message board
thanks |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Good stories here,
The bluebirds were made at the same time as the UK2s were in production. Upon further recolection Glen always liked "thick" sounding pickups. The preecher thumbsuckers don't cut it. Glen liked the sound of the UK pickups and they were put in his guitar. Now if they were original or swapped out later I really can't remember, just too much time has gone by.
Here's a good question to be argued. While it wasn't built that way originally but changed, upgraded, altered, whatever by the factory, the same people who built it in the first place, does it change the value?
These by the way were all made by Nick Mackin's group, they made all the adamas guitars, from just after the slotheads till it moved to New Hartford around 1985, the pf22's, the bluebirds and any other special one off things that were custom ordered or dreamed up by me. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Bill, thanks for shedding some light on the bluebird question..I have two questions..How many of them were 12 string? I have owned one bluebird and know of another owner of a bluebird.Then i have a video of Glen with two on stage(6 and 12 string).So, that makes 4 that i have seen.All four had the preacher pickups..So,i wonder what the other 6-8 had(pick ups) installed.THe one on e-bay i was told the pickups were changed,by the guy who was selling it.By the way,the bluebird i had was the one with the greyish stained neck that was mentioned in an earlier post...
My other question is can you tell me anything about the Jerry Reed Thunderhead that i have.Its a great guitar.I have always wondered how many were built and if they were made for him exclusively like the bluebirds or were they to be a production model and the idea got canned? |
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cwk2
now that is a very good question. In my opinion since this instrument was a custom order or prototype it would not change any value. A prototype or a custom order is similar to an artist's work in progress. It is a collaborative effort between the builder and the player. A pickup change or something else that adds to the playablilty of the instrument for the artist could never detract from an instrument but merely add to the value.
AS you stated the pickups were a problem and thus upgraded so it would seem to follow that this would be the guitar that was most desireable to the artist. Since Glen liked the sound of the UK pickups and had them installed in the guitar either originally or at later time that documentation by you would then in my mind make that guitar more desireable.
Perhaps I did not make this clear in an earlier post but a guitar that was never a production model could have any variation and they all could be valid. A special order custom insturment does not need to follow any uniform standard in one way or another.
example eddie cochran used gretsch guitars but did not like the neck pickup and had a p 90 installed. Is that guitar less valuable because it is not original NO it is more valuable because eddie used it and did the mod (or had the mod done)
I think the hardest question here is determinig what a market value for this one off celebrity owned and perhaps altered guitar would be.
bottom line for me is since it is a prototype and not a production guitar and all work was done in the factory there should be no change in value and maybe even it would be more than if the alteration was done on my kitchen table with a butterknife propane torch and nail clipper. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Bluebyrds
I don't think there were 10, maybe 8, somewhere in there. They were all made in the same tim e frame, they all had foam viper bodies which we didn't put into production. This was at the introduction of the UK2, whatever year that was. We made the mold for the arched top and back after we proved it out on the viper. The necks were all mahogony because they were deacon necks which was short scale vs the viper which is long scale, 24 3/4 vs 25 1/2. There were maybe 2 or 3 12strings, 5 or 6 6strings.
There was a brown bird 12 made which I still have, I don't think there were two but maybe this will bring it out of the closet if it exists. Since he wanted $10,000 for the bluebird this should be worth much more since there is only this one, maybe $20,000!
Only kidding, we didn't sell much jet fuel today, got to make it up somewhere! Actually this isn't available yet. I need to check the factory for some UK pickups since it's got the spoo fed preecher pickups. A long range, after the fact retro fit by the original guy, does that affect the price?? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Al
I heard you work wonders with a butterknife blowtorch and nail clippers. I've got a job for you.....of course they won't let you on the plane.
Sam,
I really think that Jerry Reed is ther only one there is. They made it for him when he was on Glen's show and whatever he had HAD to be different from Glen's. I don't think we ever had an endorsement deal with him, just put his name on it for him. |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | WOW, the only one made! It is different from any other standard Thunderhead.It has the volume knob on the pickguard and his signature and ovation logo are in Gold.The pickups look similar to the Viper style pickups but slightly different.They have the six pole pieces(lower on the edge of the pickup) and the black texture to them...A few years ago a guy was advertizing a Jeery Reed ovation.When i called him i was expecting to hear about an ovation acoustic.He began describing a guitar like mine, a semihollow body with f-holes ,etc...I thought he was crazy and thought someone had made a homemade Jerry Reed model.I did not pay much attention to it.Years later i found this one and realized that this guitar really existed..I think there may be more than one ,maybe two at least..The serial number is X009 |
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Location: NJ | cwk2
With 20 K on the line I can clear off the kitchen table and add a couple of rusty files, a couple of cans of krylon brown, a screwdriver with a broken tip and a bead-dazzler to my tool arsenal. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Krylon, my favorite! no runs no drips no errors! |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Hi guys, I know this is an old thread about an even older guitar but the rare flightless 'bird referred to earlier in this thread has migrated north to my house. Although I haven't had much time to examine it thoroughly, it appears to be all original including the UK2 pickups. It has the series/parallel switches above the pickups like the UK2, but they are mounted right into the pickguard, there are no pickup surrounds. It has the wider version headstock (anyone know when this was introduced?) and the 'bird' image has a red breast, like Russ's Brownbird. It has a more contoured tummy cut on the back of the body than my other six-string, smaller pickguard like a viper and smaller (Preacher?) vol/tone knobs.
One curious thing is that the neck plate is inset into the body to be flush. It is obviously original…are there any other solidbodies out there like this?
Fit and finish is flawless and lots of tonal variation with this setup. Love it!
Wayne |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "are there any other solidbodies out there like this? "
The UKII comes to mind. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I loved this thread the first time it appeared, and it is just as much fun today. It only makes my pilgrimage to install some UKII pickups in a wood Viper more relevant as I try to build a guitar that Glen Campbell designed years ago but was never put into production. Anybody got those spare UKII pickups? I'll buy them and a cheap Viper to put them in if anybody has one.
Bailey |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | "The UKII comes to mind."
Miles, was this a standard UK2 feature? I have 6 very rare Ovations that I found via the internet. But for all that, and the fact I have had an Ovation or two kicking around since I was fifteen, I have seen very few old Ovations in person. For example, I had never seen a Deacon until two months ago and the first shiney bowl acoustic I saw was the GC 6-string I have. It is easier to unearth pre-cbs Fender stuff around here than old O's!
Do you know the answer to the headstock question? Also, the serial # is E10051...how chronological is the numbering scheme? I know that series is 1975 to 1980, but beyond that, is there much rhyme or reason to it, or is it quite random?
Wayne |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | If I understand what you are asking.... the configuration of a standard UKII is as you described (hardware wise). You can check out my Ovation Solidbody and Storm Series collection site for some additional info on the UKII (one of the sections I have pretty much completed). There are two headstocks, and I've only seen the narrower one on the Breadwinners. Not saying they weren't elsewhere... just I haven't see'em. The serial numbers are pretty reliable order wise, but do not really signify a year without looking them up. Check the Reference section and you should be able to ballpark the year pretty close. |
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Location: Scotland | Early Deacons had the narrow headstock also, you can see one in my gallery pics. I guess the change to the wider version occured around the time the Vipers & Preachers were introduced. I've never seen a Breadwinner with the wide version. Personally I think the narrow headstock looks a lot nicer. |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Thanks for the info guys!
Bailey, I do have a set of UK2 pickups that I was going to put in my other 6-string Bluebird. Obviously, I wont be doing that now but I am not sure if I am keeping the spare pups or not.
Wayne |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | I had a chance to play this guitar a bit more this weekend through two different vintage Fender tube amps and find the pickups to be very hot. This works great for getting that natural overdriven type of sound (especially using tube amps), but I find I have to back off the volume quite a bit (about 1/3) to clean up the sound. Is this normal?
To the UK2 users; what do you find to be the optimal pickup height setting for these pickups?
Wayne |
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Location: Scotland | Wayne, when I use my UK11 into either of my Deluxe Reverbs the volume needs to be backed off to stay absolutely clean. Pickup height is down to personal taste & playing style. They can be pretty much as close as you like as the pickups use a base magnet, the "rails" are not magnets, so will not pull the strings & cause wolf-notes like a Fender-style single coil. If you want the guitar to stay clean keep the pickups away from the strings. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Wayne
Hang on to those pickups, if you can. I'm busy watching the war day and night, but am really interested in them if they are priced less than their weight in gold. I'll email you shortly and discuss them if you don't mind. I'm thinking seriously of putting them in my Viper that I have, any body see anything wrong with that kind of mod, my Viper is totally original?
Bailey |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Paul, right after my last post I tried lowering the bridge pup to about 1/2" from the strings and it became much more controlable with more 'chime' to the tone. Even at that height, there is still lots of grind when you open the volume up...the best of both worlds! I left the neck pup where it was.
Bailey, those pups would be direct replacement but you probably would want to enable the parallel/series option using a couple of extra switches (or push/pull pot?).
Wayne |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Wayne
I think I could find a place for whatever it would take to make it work right, and I definately would need the advice of yourself and other solid body gurus. I would try to repair the cracks around my cable plug at the same time. What I would like to end up with is a Viper with the UKII sound and I welcome all advice.
Bailey |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Viper with a UKII sound... well you might get close with the UKII pickups, but remember part of the UKII sound is also the body, and the way the neck and bridge are both attached to the aluminum core. The Bluebird is a UKII-esque body in that it is the Lyrastuff over aluminum just like the UKII. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Miles
UKIIish. obviously, only a UKII will sound like one. Curiousity, unfortunately, is a terrible vice of mine.
Bailey |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Well I think UKII pickups are great too so you are sortof preaching to the choir. There will be a BIG difference between a UKII and a standard Viper with UKII pickups, but I don't mean to infer that woulf be a bad thing at all. What you may want to do is ONLY do the Bridge pickup and also install the series/parallel switch. In Series it sounds like a hot single coil (Kinda like the original VIper pickup, only a little hotter)... That would give you one helluva guitar. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Sounds like a good idea Miles, everything is on the table. |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Hi, I had a chance a couple of days ago to change the strings and do a setup on the above mentioned Bluebird and can clear up the originality debate that went on in the earlier posts of this thread. I have taken a lot of old guitars apart over the years and can say that this one appears to be 100% original. The wiring is all neat as a pin, no re-done solder joints, no extra routing for the series/parallel switches, nothing funky looking at all. The pots are dated 1977 and 1978 (the week #'s are obscured by solder) so, obviously, it was build in '78 or later. The neck has a '32' or '52' (anyone know what these '#'s mean?)on the end, and a 'C' on the bottom of the neck where it bolts into the pocket.
There is a "Urelite" sticker between the pickup cavities and "OK" on a piece of masking tape, and what appears to be a piece of a trade magazine article in the neck pocket as a shim!
I strung it up with 11-49 D’darrios' because I like the added tension (= tone) that they give to short scale guitars.
Here are some pics I took while it was apart.
Wayne
'Bird Guts |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | GREAT PICTURES!! |
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Location: SoCal | It's still "O" dark hundred hours and I'm working on a report. I popped in a tape of Glen Campbell from 1990 in the UK. The Bluebird 12 string he's playing has the Ovation mini humbuckers, active electronics, and a plain neck (no binding, just dot inlays). In 1982 he played a Bluebird with the proper neck but only an after market bridge pickup.
Just a little trivia for your Bluebird fans trying to figure out what Bluebirds were played when. |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | Just out of curiosity: How much does a Bluebird weigh? |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I would guess the bird kind weighs a few ounces or it wouldn't get off the ground. |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | :D |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | I have never actually weighed them BruDev, but I'm guessing about 6 to 6 1/2 lbs for the 6-strings. The twelve is somewhat heavier (8 lbs?) due to the neck being much larger in width, thickness and length.
Wayne |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | I would think they'd be lighter. Just as a comparison the difference between a UK II and a LP is substantial. |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | "I would guess the bird kind weighs a few ounces or it wouldn't get off the ground."
Rest assured, Bailey, that with me playing them now instead of Glen, they had already flown as high as they're ever going to! :rolleyes:
Wayne |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | "I would think they'd be lighter..."
They could be a bit lighter that that perhaps. The only in hand comparison to another Ovation solid I had a chance to do was with an electric Viper and the BB was considerably lighter...60-70% of a Viper's weight, I'd guess.
Wayne |
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Ovation bluebird