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Location: SE Michigan | I thought I'd pass along the URL of a guitar forum that actually allows people to talk and express their thoughts, and not just thoughts pertaining to bathroom humor:
http://p067.ezboard.com/facousticguitartalktalktalkfrm2
I am sorry to say I am becoming bored and even a little disgusted with this forum. In the thread that Miles shut down, people were discussing the concepts of artists talking about politics, not so much politics itself. It seems that almost anything goes on this forum except for a couple of curious sacred cows (ebay auctions and politics).
I was enjoying reading the CSNY thread that got shut down and I thought that the topic was pretty on target for a guitar forum. I dunno, I guess I just cant figure out what this forum is all about. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Thanks for the link.
"It seems that almost anything goes on this forum except for a couple of curious sacred cows (ebay auctions and politics)."
- Just add religion and you got it.
There are plenty of other things to talk about. As far as the "bathroom humor," we're not a real fan of that either, but it tends to not take up whole threads.
Cheers. |
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Location: Oregon | No offence Brian, but when I come here, I like to talk about guitars. If I want politics I can go watch the news or listen to every other kid in my school spout off about Bush.
So personally I'am glad no politics or religious talk is here. This isn't a debate forum, it's a fan club for Ovation guitars. |
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | Brian, I have to agree with you on the CSNY thread. The issue was not the nature of politics. It was using a rock concert to promote political agendas, no matter what the political issue is. Somehow that got twisted. Oh well, perhaps we can discuss a recent Air Supply concert. |
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Location: SE Michigan | Don't get me wrong folks, I realize that this is a guitar/music forum, and we should try to stay on topic as much as is reasonable. But it's also a community where people should be allowed to express an opinion here or there, even if it is an unpopular one. No one is forcing anyone to read through a entire thread (thank god!).
But regarding boredom, sometimes it gets a little weary looking at the same old stuff week after week; setups, string types, which amp should I buy, string tubes, llamas, coconut bras, etc. etc., etc., ad-nauseum. Once in a blue moon an interesting topic comes up (the CSNY thread), and it offends the (sic) standards of decency of the board and gets shut down. Again I just don't get it. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | BrainT your input is appreciated, but you basically asked and answered your own question even though you say "you just don't get it" you obviously do. I was not sarcastic in thanking you for the link. Although most of the CSNY thread was interesting, there were some peppers of political views and insults scattered in there, and that was the reason for closing it. This board was founded and is maintained on one premise and that is Ovation guitars. The fact that small groups have formed around the country to meet'n greet and play music is fantastic and more than we could have hoped for in the beginning. Could this site be more than it is? Sure it can, but it won't be. It's more than meeting the goals and vision Al and I had at the start. We are still getting 100+ new members joining each month. There will be improvements here and there, and features along the way, but the main focus is, and will remain about Ovation guitars and the people who play them.
In most cases, even when off-topic we let the threads run their course. On the other hand, we've been at this long enough to know how to predict a storm on the horizon. |
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Location: PDX | Well Brian, i can understand your sentiment, even sympathize with it. You'd like the board to meet your needs, or at least reflect your ideas of what an Ovation guitar board should be.
May i suggest you start your own board? The owners and moderators of this board obviously don't share your sentiments of what this board should be. And guess what, it's THEIR board, they get to make the rules, and that's the end of it. I believe Miles and Al are reasonable folks and would be open to respectful requests. However your approach bordered on belligerence, at least that's how i read it. Try diplomacy next time.
_____
gh1 |
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Location: East Tennessee | I wasn't sure I would chime in on this thread,(not sure where it might go).
I find the members of this forum to be a rather diverse group of individuals with one common characteristic, the love and enjoyment of Ovation Guitars. They are an open minded group who don't mind bragging about other brands they own,( try that on some other boards).
True we tend to rehash some topics,(strings, set up etc), but in the almost 2 years I have been a member, I have learned a lot about Ovations and guitars in general.
True sometimes we wander way off topic and the humor gets a little rough but thats life.
If any member has a problem with their guitar or is going through a rough time.
Stand Back and watch this group rally to what ever the situation calls for.
I guess I've put in my two cents. I'll quit for now, I'm going to practice the song I've got to sing tomorrow morning. BTW I will be using my Martin 12 string. :D |
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Location: SoCal | Damn Miles... now I gotta go get a margarita and spend the whole evening looking thru the thread to see if I can find the insults and political views that I missed the first time. And I should be practicing my guitar, looking for that 4th chord.
gh1, Brian's outspoken, but not even close to belligerent. Now Temp, we'll there's concentrated belligerence......
I gott go get my margarita. |
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Location: Scotland | Hey, I don't need to concentrate, it comes natural. |
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Location: Waurika OK | I appreciate the boundries set by Al and Miles. As a preacher, I could get fired up by some of the things occasionally posted here. But, I don't think this is the proper place to get too far afield of Ovation guitars and things related to guitars in general.
My interest here also waxes and wanes, but I always find something to draw me back into posting and I visit here everyday, usually more than once.
It is what it was intended to be, a forum that increases my appreciation for guitars and for those who play better (most everyone) and who know more (again most everyone).
I know that if it turned into a political rant site, I would be gone. When ever a thread goes in that direction, I usually never look at it again.
It is not that I don't care about what happens in the political arena of our country, but I'm not interested in yaking about it here.
Brian, I am not being critical of you. Your interests and views are just as important as mine. It's just not why I come here.
With respect to all.
noel |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Man you guys are fast.. I was still editing the first post and there are even more replies... anyway... I edited my above post a little. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | By Paul T. . . .Hey, I don't need to concentrate, it comes natural. . .
On the day he was born,
The nurses all gathered round,
gazed in wide wonder
at the joy they had found
Head nurse spoke up,
Said, "Leave this one alone,"
She could tell right away,
He was bad to the Bone |
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Location: SE Michigan | I have been visiting this forum for a long time, and I really do enjoy a lot of the banter and I have also learned a great deal as well.
Being an artist is all about expressing thoughts ideas and opinions. Expecting an artist to not project their ideas into a project or concert would be like asking a preacher to not preach about religion. It’s an oxymoron. You posters who don’t like Graham Nash’s comments, do you ignore the words to his songs? Are you that shallow-minded? What do you do during his lyrics, hold your hands over your ears and chant “LA-LA-LA-LA-LA I CANT HEAR YOU!” No one says you have to agree. No one even says you have to listen, but to say he is wrong for expressing himself is downright draconian.
In my mind that’s the whole point of art, if you are not pissing off people or at least raising an eyebrow or two it’s probably not very good art. And I would think the musicians on this forum would understand this more than the average Joe.
So our moderators shut the CSNY thread down. Members are concerned about staying on topic, and I am belligerent. The whole thing seems rather fascist to me. Meanwhile one of the moderators has had two recent threads about wiring his house, we have discussed car accidents, Plane crashes, crocodile hunters, and tropical fashions, but somehow a thread about political expression by musicians at concerts is off limits.
Nobody forces anybody to read anything here. I am sure a lot of the female members find a lot of the bathroom humor offensive, but they just ignore it. That’s the way a public forum is supposed to work.
And as far as this being Al and Mile’s board, that they own it to the exclusion of other ideas, that’s bullshit. This is a public forum, if you don’t want that you shouldn’t be on the Internet. And if that’s how this board is going to be run I will sadly have to abstain and find better places to spend my time.
Taylor had a board that was jokingly called “The Taylor Mutual Aid and Admiration Society” because Taylor became so anal-retentive about message content. The board became a joke, I’d hate to see that happen here. |
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Location: Scotland | Brian, I'm with you in most if not all of what you said. However, at the risk of sounding like a pussy it was probably right to shut down that thread. Politics and religion are emotive issues, as is art. There are places to discuss all of these subjects all over the worldwideinterwebthing. Keeping a degree of focus, and to paraphrase Miles avoiding storms, is probably a good idea. |
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Location: Waurika OK | Man I wish I knew how to do the quote with bold type function...
Anyway, Brian said:
"Expecting an artist to not project their ideas into a project or concert would be like asking a preacher to not preach about religion."
I realize this is not a concert, but that is exactly what the administrators of the board ask me, as a preacher, not to do. So, I don't, but sometimes I would like to.
Just because something is a public forum, doesn't mean anything goes.
Goodnight all, I do get to preach in the morning, and I sometimes think the congregation does not like it much more than you do! Just kidding, no, that may be true!!
noel |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Not sure what your beef is Brian, but...
You are correct, that Al and I are not consistant about what gets stopped and what doesn't. We don't have the time to moderate, and frankly for the most part, things don't need moderating. However, some threads we see and comment and put a stop to. Al asked very nicely for folks to be careful in the referenced thread, and they ignored him... That's just disrespectful.
We basically have one rule around here. Be kind to each other. Off-topic is tolerated to keep things interesting with the exception of religion and politics. Was the CSNY thread cut off early... yes. I knew where it was going. I'm sorry you don't agree. That's ok too. |
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Location: SE Michigan | Thanks for hearing and responding to my concerns Miles. |
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Location: NJ | Brian
First I agree that I am not interested in the bathroom humor. I repeatedly ask that it stop. It often falls upon deaf ears.
I work really hard to keep this board running as smoothly as possible. I spent much time at it. All at the cost of spending time with family matters, my personal life, my business and my health. The past couple years have givem me some health scares and personal tradgedies in the past 3 months have all contributed to my overall stress level. Several times during that period I toyed with the idea of just pulling the plug on the forum. Instead, I spent yet more time, and energy on the message board. It is not an easy job and a thankless task.
If you only knew what was going on in my life when I was at the last OFC factory tour... I had to keep a good face and keep everything in motion. I did and it went off well but understand my heart and mind was not in CT that day.
Trying to keep a level of seriousness is one thing and difficult, but there are many places people can talk about religion and politics out on the net. This is not one of them.
somewhere in my family album is a picture of an about 2 year old me with my aunt. I am clutching a uke with a grin from ear to ear looking out the back door of my parent's first house. I am much older now but music, musicians and musicianship still makes me grin from ear to ear. To me it has always been about the music. When I sit down with guitar in hand, I don't ask religion, race, political party, etc etc etc. I ask "what key?" and then let someone count it off and start to play. It has always been and always will be about the music for me.
I often take heat on this site. Some love me, others despise me, some don't understand me and others get it. This place was started with one reason and one reason only, A place for the love of Ovation and Adamas guitars. Nothing more nothing less.
In the CSNY thread, I made a reference to moody. it is because, a couple of months ago he fired off an angry e mail to me about why I did not shut down a political thread and that I let certain view points get more distance than others. Well I was not reading the board that day. A good friend and collegue passed away and I was refecting ont he good times that we had and the GREAT music that we made. The last thing on my mind was worrying about who said what about which politician.
I digress.
So, the way I see it is that life is way too short to spend it arguing and making enemies. Miles and I often do not see eye to eye, yet compromise is reached and we move forward.
In the grand scheme of things this was one thread at one point in time that has relavance to you. I understand. To leave over this board over that seems reactionary and silly to me. I have met you, and think you are a good guy and a good musician. that is what it is about.
I worked with a drummer that used to work for Warner Electra Atlantic and he met Al jarreau (sp) He struck up a conversation with him and talked about being a musician and playing the drums. Al's parting words to him was "do the music".
so I will end this diatribe with Brian "do the music" |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I've met a number of friends (though not one of them will admit it publically) on this board by virture of knowing more about them than just, they play or have an interest in Ovation Guitars. If that was the ONLY thing being discussed, YAWN, it's likely those friendship would not have coalesced as they have. And it's these friendships ( I don't mean only mine) that make this place what it is and keep it vital.
Hell, except for new models and the emergence of the ocassional rare one, I think you could find almost any iota of information about O's just by searching...What need is there to really corrospond then, other to trade buy or sell...
We've all read something here that's pissed us off or put us off, we've also laughed or asses off and made some cool contacts and friendships (and some very cool things have been done by people and groups formed here as a result... some things very few members know about)
I say, Have at it!! Religion, Politics, Bathroom humor, all of it!! Ask forgiveness, not permission... you'll know when you've gone too far when nobody responds or the thread gets closed or you're banned out-right.
If by chance this turns out to be my last post, I've enjoyed it. Really. My thanks to you All.
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(Al, just remember I know where you live... Yuse know whad Im sayin'?) |
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Location: Scotland | For what it's worth, Wildwood made a post about a concert he attended at which he'd had a great time, making no comments whatsover about anything other than THE MUSIC. 2 or maybe 3 people who WERE NOT THERE bitched about alleged political content, based on hearsay. I'm sure CSNY were far from apolitical, but if you weren't there to experience it for yourself, how would you know, and why would you bother making an unqualified comment? That's my last on this one. I'm out. |
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Location: San Angelo, Texas | Hmmmm....
How about them Cubs?!?!?!?!?! |
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Location: SE Michigan | Several times during that period I toyed with the idea of just pulling the plug on the forum. Instead, I spent yet more time, and energy on the message board. It is not an easy job and a thankless task……
……I often take heat on this site. Some love me, others despise me, some don't understand me and others get it. This place was started with one reason and one reason only, A place for the love of Ovation and Adamas guitars. Nothing more nothing less.
Thank you for responding as well Al, and I really do appreciate your efforts. Might I suggest that maybe you are working too hard and worrying too much? Let things go a bit, loosen the reins, we are all (well at least most of us) grown ups here.
And I don’t want to make this a political or religious rant forum, like speaker's corner in Hyde park, but we were discussing musicians projecting political ideas, not so much politics itself. If Cliff wants to talk lamas or waffles, what’s so terrible about discussing a CSNY concert? If we have room for all of the crazy things that get talked about on the OFC, I don’t see why everybody has their knickers in a knot over a bit of politics. Again nobody is forcing anyone to read anything, I skim over the majority of posts that don’t interest me.
And of course people should use good manners and be kind to each others, I fully support you on these ideals. Thank you again for all of your efforts Al and Miles. |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by Brian T:
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, we are all (well at least most of us) grown ups here.
. this is not correct. I have repeatedly reminded members that anyone who registers that is under 18 has to do so with the permission of their parents and we get and approve these members. That is why I constantly have to remind people about language and content. On the thread in question, I saw a member that I can NEVER remember using foul language using the "f" word. I was going to say something but I just threw my hands up in the air and backed away from the keyboard. which is what I suggest many people do when they are in doubt of what they are posting.
I agree that some of the inside jokes go too far but they are jokes. They don't invoke hatred.
btw you should make a little better distinction between the 2 quotes of mine that you edited together. |
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Location: SE Michigan | Sorry Al, I didnt mean to slant or misuse your quote, I was just trying to keep it concise which often isnt easy for me. I'll edit it. |
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Location: Oregon | Just because people are grown ups, does not mean they know how to discuss things. Before I first posted I went back to read that thread. Even I, being under 18 could see where that was going to end up. Even more so when the f word gets thrown around, and people start presenting subjective material as objective and visa versa....
I really want to thank Miles and Al for moderating the forums, probably would't be here without that. |
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| Well I'm done... I've pulled all of my posts and threads that I was able to. would the moderators here please delete the following galleries for me?
1) 1971 balladeer any answers welcome
2) Glenn Hess
3) Glenn Hess Sr
4) Unixycler
GregoryS if you're not comfortable in completing or continuing our transaction I understand.
noone here was ever targeted or marked for abuse by me.
Bruce, after the milk-carton thing you're lucky I didn't take the hatch off, take a dump in it, and send it back to you in pieces....
Peace, Out....
you may remove this ID from the forum.
GH |
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Location: SE Michigan | Even more so when the f word gets thrown around, and people start presenting subjective material as objective and visa versa.... Do an OFC forum search on the "F" word, it comes up more than one would think it should. BTW, the "F" word is a commonly used term favored by our friends from the UK, so maybe we should make allowance for their customs. They really mean no harm by it. It's part of the Queen's English
But try a few searches on various other vulgarities and you might be surprised. |
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Location: San Angelo, Texas | did I miss something??? |
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Location: Oregon | Originally posted by Brian T:
Even more so when the f word gets thrown around, and people start presenting subjective material as objective and visa versa.... Do an OFC forum search on the "F" word, it comes up more than one would think it should. BTW, the "F" word is a commonly used term favored by our friends from the UK, so maybe we should make allowance for their customs. They really mean no harm by it. It's part of the Queen's English
But try a few searches on various other vulgarities and you might be surprised. |
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Location: SE Michigan | Al, and I say this totally tongue-in-cheek and with a sense of humor, but were you abused by a politician as a child? You just seem hypersensitive to any use of the P******* word.
The reason I say this is because I went back and re-read the CSNY thread and I really don’t see what was so bad about it other than maybe a few foul words (nothing new here). I admit I took one small jab at Bush which I now regret, but I really didn’t see the thread going out of control.
And I too am curious what's up with you AmazinglyDetached (GH), did I miss something? I sure hope I didn’t offend you in some way. If you’re pissed about something please explain. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Just a reminder, this is what everyone agreed to when they joined. You will note that it doesn't specify topics to stay away from, however, we have found certain topics ALMOST ALWAYS end up breaking the golden rule of "be kind to each other."
It usually only takes a gentle nudge, once in awhile to keep things on track, and we know when it's going to go off track.
We do miss a lot. In the scheme of things, it's not that important what we catch or miss. But just because Al and I don't spend our days and nights enforcing rules, doesn't mean they don't exist. We moderate to the extent we feel it needs to be done. With moderation if you will.
Here's how I read the thread in question.
1. Someone posted about a show.
2. By post #3 someone had stated their political leanings.
3. Al asked people to stick to the music.
4. Al was ignored
5. A few more mildly politcal references
6. Al warned again
7. Nearly two pages later the terms "WASP" and "Coward" were used and...
that's it... it was ended.
As this thread has run it's course, I may end it also, unless of course I don't have to. We shall see.
As stated elsewhere, there are some topics we try to stay away from. Religion, Politics and lets watch the bathroom humor too, it's not really necessary. As with most anything in life, moderation (note the small "m") is the key.
Please review the below.
==========================================
Besides the below generic legal babble we at the Ovation Fan Club community have really only one rule, "Be Kind To Each Other." It may sound corny, but we have a large community of great folks who do not sit around flaming each other all day, but rather just love to talk guitars and music, especially Ovation guitars and music.
This board is not intended to be a forum to promote any individual agenda be it from a single person, groups, or commercial or private entity. It is a private community of Ovation enthusiasts from around the world, encompassing a variety of backgrounds, ages, and interests. All opinions and discussions are welcome without fear of censorship, with the only "rule" being to be kind to each other. When said discussions and/or opinions become disruptive and/or repetitive and degenerate into personal agenda, we reserve the right to close threads, remove posts, and ultimately suspend participation.
This is a family oriented board, and as such hurling insults will not be tolerated. The offenders will be warned once and continuation of said behavior will result in the offenders account being suspended.
... legal babble continues... |
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Location: Omaha, NE | FWIW, I consider myself pretty much an outsider here, but I do think this board has a very unique and positive personality. Compared to others in the guitar world, this one is special. Seems to me like the overall management strategy is working. |
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Location: Houston, Texas | Brian, the Amazinglydetached thing was totally unrelated, to the best of my knowledge. Why he posted here is beyond me. |
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Location: SoCal | as to art, a lot of us have different definitions...and, we can (and do) vote with our wallet.
you buy their product, you condone their effort. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "you buy their product, you condone their effort."
I'm not sure "condone" is the right word. I have bought music for which I didn't like the artists "opinions" on whatever subject, but I liked the music and that is what's important to me when I buy music. I may be "supporting" them, but I don't think "condone" is the most correct word.
It's the same with some organizations I belong to. I in general don't like their stance on many policial issues, but on the issue for which I paid my money, I like what they do. Am I in affect supporting causes I don't agree with. Well yes, but more important to me, is I am supporting the issue or cause or product that is important to me.
after all... it is all about me (inside joke).
Omaha, I like your insight... "don't fix what ain't broke" :) Thanks |
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Location: Michigan | Holy Shit!!!
I have to say that this is what a bulletin board is all about!!!
This is by far ( BAR NONE ) The best thread that I have ever seen on this site.
This is what a great bulletin board is all about.
I am actually seeing O.F.C. members saying what they actually feel about an issue without a whole bunch of joking going on
( which is fine with me )
on a subject that has struck a nerve with the club.
No offense to AL or BRIAN but both of you have struck a nerve on everybodys own personal opinion on what we as individuals stand for !!!
This board is great and all off us are now getting our real feelings out about a certain subject that needs attention.
I personally think that this thread is one of the most serious
( no bullshit, down to earth , face to face )
best ones that I have ever seen on OFC.
Lets make a positive issue out of this thread and continue on with a great guitar board and better yet , a real life board.
KEEP THIS THREAD GOING , THATS WHAT OUR
O.F.C. CLUB IS ALL ABOUT.
DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU GUYS???
LETS TALK ABOUT IT AND MAKE SOME PEACE HERE AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT EVERYONES ISSUES ARE .
G.W.B. |
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Location: SoCal | First of all, I don't judge others as to their values/actions/attitude...may ignore them, pity them, or not understand their decisions.
Of course, unless their values result in illegal or anti-social actions - then, I probably have a program that results in my ability to buy guitars ;)
We all balance the artist and the "art"...many Republican matrons go to Steisand concerts then complain about her advocacy. The matrons would ignore a solicitation to support her causes but justify rewarding her financially since they enjoy her music. Again, the individual attends or buying CD's but saying gee, I wish he or she wasn't pushing an agenda. So, we usually make a judgement that is measured in degrees...will do this but not that. Then, sometimes we pull the plug and vote with our wallet. One individual doesn't make a difference but a large number will.
I won't make a reference to music artists to avoid starting another "problem" thread. Looking at Portland and San Diego...several theaters and dance companies/troups lost part of their audience/donors. No action to stiffle or censor, just not interested. Management of the theater or dance group wants to continue their efforts, they need to understand that they are entertainment...some may not be entertained. |
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Location: Hiram, Georgia | No, I don't agree with the coarse of this thread at all. I think we need to focus on whats really important,like beautiful young ladies playing Ovations:
Sammy&Sasha
I want to take my young (12&14yrs) daughters to see Kaki King (who is doing something GOOOD) this Tuesday. I'm sorry if you can't relate.
:D :D :D Beaver Cleaver :D :D :D |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Good find there Phil! |
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Location: Oregon | They play EVERYTHING with a capo it seems, on the second fret. Have they forsaken the bass opting for all treble? |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by Brian T:
Al, and I say this totally tongue-in-cheek and with a sense of humor, but were you abused by a politician as a child? You just seem hypersensitive to any use of the P******* word.
to answer your question totally tongue in cheeck.
No but I did go to catholic school.
to be a little more serious. I have a degree in Political Science. Spent 4 years studying US and forgien political systems. I also put in time as in intern in local state congressman's offices's etc. Most people talk politics from an emotional level and I from an academic viewpoint. Therefore these interchanges are of little value to me on a personal level. Regardless of my personal views, I just choose not to engage in those types of discussion. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I was one of the people who posted in the CSNY thread. I, like most of the other posters, kept things civil. Most of us were discussing musicians using concerts to push their political agendas. However, ther WERE several posts that were getting nasty and if Al and Miles felt that it was time to pull the plug, I don't blame them at all. If they don't want politics in this forum, that's their choice. It IS their joint!
Just my $.02 |
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Location: south east Michigan | Wow... my internet connection at home goes out for a day and look what I miss.
I think this board was waiting for the CSN&Y thread to happen. It was just the right thread to make a clear example of just where "the line" is drawn. Most times that line is rather vague or moved around for convenience.
I like to think I have a good number of friends. There are only a few of them with whom I would discuss religion or politics. I would like to think that I have made some good friends on this board. There are a few of them with whom I would discuss religion and politics with. However, I would only do this on a one to one basis. Face to face or e-mail to e-mail. I think it rude and inappropriate to assume that the hundreds(?) of others who read an OFC thread want to eavesdrop on my very personal discussion with another member.
The CSN&Y thing is a perfect example for this reason. When we step up to the keyboard we are, in a real sense, also stepping up on a stage in front of perhaps a couple hundred people. With that responsibility I try to keep in mind what brought those people to this venue in the first place. I would not want to get up and play the latest rap hit in front of folk who came to listen to Bluegrass. (come to think of it...I don't want to play rap at all!) :D
Bottom line is that I do not concider my views and opinions to be so "right" that I need to take advantage of the good will of this venue and spout off from the stage. I'm not so arrogant to think that I can sway anothers very personal and heartfelt beliefs in this kind of format.
In closeing....as I prepare to yeild this "stage" to the next member I have two last points.
A)...Although I have been against it in the past, perhaps it's time to have a seperate "open discussion" section. Give them a room lined floor to ceiling with thin mattresses and let them have at it. Those feel who comfortable with the medium can get it out of their system. Personally, I would avoid it.
2)....I spent about 15 minutes at the link Brian offered. It's miss-named. It's dis-jointed and confused. It should be named "Politics and Pottpurri Board That Tolerates Some Talk Of Acoustic Guitars". It would be a shame if the OFC became such a site.
C)....one more point... Michael Jordon (da-Bulls), who is very much a person of the Democratic type, was taken to task for his unwillingness to show up at Democratic fundraisers. His replay was..."Looking at the last vote, about half the people out there are Republicans....they also buy Nike shoes." |
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Time for a group hug! A big thanks to Al and Miles for all they do. Weather we agree with their decisions or not, it's still the best board aROUND. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | First off, we talk religion all the time here. Guitars and the way we feel about them ARE a religion.
Political stuff, So many music people get caught up in various points of view and feel obligated to share the light they've seen (as in jam it down nonbelievers throats). I really liked the Al J quote above, "JUST DO THE MUSIC"
Criminal Stills and Hash are pretty much over the hill so maybe they need another angle to excite the audience?
Nuff Said.
Oh and the bathroom stuff, that seens to make the circuit on the private email. It's really twisted, please keep it up. |
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ | KUMBAYA, anyone? Those babes and Elite T's were the best thing that's come out of this discussion. |
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Location: Lebanon, TN | Okay, with a good perspective on this here's my thoughts...Over the last 2 years I have been a frequent participant in a songwriting board. I love the drive to write new music and more improtantly it was a great place for my daughter (16) and I to share. She found it first and I went on to encourage her music and songwriting. Along the way it spurred me to write afew things myself and find a reason to make the time to spend more time on my music rather than work and other distractions.
However over the last 2 years I have been disappointed that the general community their spends 80% of there time on topics other than the purpose of the board even on threads that should be specific. It has been immensely frustrating and I have seen a lot of destructive behaviour because of a deliberate policy of very lax moderation (with some bizarre exceptions like one moderators total banning of any reference to wikipedia...bizarre!!). Primarily because of this I now don't want to return there other than to share with a relatively small number of people who have become friends.
I love coming to OFC because it is a complete contrast and I appreciate the common interest of the folks here. Maybe the demographic is closer to my own and I am more comfortable (insightful comment from said 16 yr old daughter) but it does seem a gentler more appreciative place.
For what it's worth I will happily continue, just sad to see people chose to leave because they don't like the constraints of the community or it's leadership. But the vote to not come back is the clearest one anyone can take if they feel uncomfortable and no-one will force them to return so web democracy continues.
Just my take on things |
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Location: SE Michigan | I have to ask; did any of you guys actually read the CSNY thread? (I realize a few of you did). The terms that were found to be objectionable were “coward” and “WASP” (oh the horror!). And we were discussing musicians, not a particular political bent.
Brad you said;
I think it rude and inappropriate to assume that the hundreds(?) of others who read an OFC thread want to eavesdrop on my very personal discussion with another member. Think about that statement while considering the topics that have been posted on this board. You guys embrace an obvious double standard. If you like the topic it’s appropriate, if you don’t like it, well then it’s out of line. This fact is what really gets under my skin.
Bottom line, I really don’t care what you guys talk about. I’ll just ignore threads that don’t interest me. So why do you care what I talk about, especially if it is music related? And even if Moody and I were to go on and on for ten pages on some topic that doesn’t interest you, why do you find that so offensive? Did using a few extra bytes on some server harm you in some way? Don’t you realize that others skip over a lot of your own off topic posts? (much of it is offensive in it’s own way). What’s the big deal here?
But I realize I am in the minority. I thought this was a pretty open Internet community, but it really isn’t. There are the favored topics and members here that can basically get away with pretty much anything they want, while others are not extended the same courtesy, I find this objectionable especially on a public internet forum. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | It is what it is. Let's move on. |
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Location: SoCal | How does one become a favored member? I can't seem to get there from here...... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Man, I get on a plane and skip over a few timezones and THIS happens. Hope it wasn't my "Chunky Chicks" comment ...
Dave |
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Location: SE Michigan | How does one become a favored member?
(1)Playing a set with the Fish Sticks
(2)Sucking up to the founders
(3)Coming up with the best one-liner response for at least 1000 threads.
(4) Learn to make good fart noises with your armpit
And I'm not leaving, although I may get banned. |
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Location: SoCal | Brian, you're not gonna get banned.... if you did, it might piss off Brad. Then who's gonna do the calenders? Gotta think long term here son.... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Personal opinion, this forum needs additional catagories:
Guitar Speak
Music & Musicians
Off Topics
FAQ's |
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Location: Maryland, USA | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
How does one become a favored member? I can't seem to get there from here...... Did I miss the sign up sheet too? :D |
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Location: East Tennessee | Originally posted by Tupperware:
Personal opinion, this forum needs additional catagories:
Guitar Speak
Music & Musicians
Off Topics
FAQ's Not a bad idea. :cool:
A luthiers section would be helpful.
Spell check for us idiots. :D
BTW I forgot, Al and Miles, you guys do a great job. Keep up the good work. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I missed the signup sheet too.
Just some comments..
- Thanks to those who recognize what is so different about this site.
- I wish I could become a favored member :(
- I almost never discuss Religion or Politics with anyone I know. It's how I KEEP friends. In the 15+ years I think Al and I have known each other, we may have mentioned a Poltical or Religious thought in passing, out of curiousity, but that's it. We both know better.
- Brain, yes the thread was closed. Not because of what WAS posted, but what WOULD have been posted in a couple more responses. Note I DID NOT delete anything. Call it thought police or whatever, I knew where it was going and it had little to do with the original post. The points on all (or most) sides were made, the topic was closed. It didn't need to be deleted, and it wasn't.
- As far as additional categories, it has been discussed. There are plenty of other sites on the net to discuss whatever topic you'd like. If there is something that you think will be of interest to the members here, post just like you always have, unless it involves Politics or Religion.. :) It's always ok to post about great treats for the sweet tooths. (Thanks Edenharvest)
The OvationFanClub.com has a specific purpose, and as many that have added to this thread noticed, it is unique and why we have the community we have. Other than some large corporations, I'd like to know of another free forum on a specific topic that had been growing by at least 100 members per month from nearly day one, almost 4 years ago.
If you do find that site, then find out if they have ever had to Ban anyone. We did once, a long time ago. Ask them if they ever had to remove a thread? (we did only once, it was related to who we banned). I really hate that I can't say never because of one person in 4 years. :( Ask them if they still have every post ever posted? Ask them if large groups of people plan get-togethers around the world. Speaking of around the world, ask them how many countries are represented in their community.
I'm truly not being sarcastic. I find it more amazing all the time what this site is and has become, and thank ALL of those who participate. Yes, even you Brian :) |
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Location: SE Michigan | OK, I'll quit. But might I suggest that we rename the forum:
"The Ovation guitar and light, breazy, and wacky discussion club".
Where all are welcome so long as you agree with us.
PS, do you still need help moderating the forum? maybe I can help. |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | "Be master of your petty annoyances and conserve your energies for the big, worthwhile things. It isn't the mountain ahead that wears you out - it's the grain of sand in your shoe." ...Robert W. Service |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Obi Wan Gumbo Parker. |
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Location: San Angelo, Texas | I know a priest who ran for congress...but he played a Taylor...so yall probably don't want to hear this story...
How about that Sammy and Sasha, they have matching T's! |
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Location: Spain | Matching whats??? |
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Location: Spain | sorry couldn't resist . If I want anything to serious this isn't the place I look first . I love this board the way it is and try not to be to worried about any conflict . The advice and information gained here about my guitars old and new is second to none and the gutter humor is what keeps me sane . I have enough major problems in my life, pleasent chat with like minded souls helps to keep everything in perspective. |
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Location: San Angelo, Texas | 1778-T's....come on...this is GUITARS, remember??? |
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Location: Spain | Its OK I remember |
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | This thread has worn me out. I have a headache from all of the misspelling and misuse of the language, not to mention the pointless profanity and vulgarity which, by the way, do not offend me; I've heard it all. Conclusion: the best thing to come out of all of this bickering is the spell check suggestion by Gospel Guitar Guy. Useful link: http://www.m-w.com/ |
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Location: Tidal Mudflats of Virginia | I agree,
The Sammy & Sasha link was the best thing to come out of this topic.
...Matching T's, you crack me up GregoryS :)
Go play & enjoy the day !
Peace,
Aloha_Tim |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | I use http://dictionary.reference.com/ |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | That sounds like a good one, Mike. How do you spell that...? |
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | I dunno,thats why I use that link! ;) |
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Location: Chehalis, Washington | At the extreme risk of opening yet another can of worms ( :eek: ) I am assuming that nothing has changed in terms of SOP regarding topics???
Specifically, I really appreciate this forum and the collective wisdom (or lack thereof), information, wit, etc of its members. Myself, like many others here, use guitars (Ovation and non) and music for our religious purposes, recording, praise bands, and the like. I notice that of those I know of here who are actively involved in that, few if any have posted to this topic, which is probably wise given the heat and fuel already on the fire.
Since I have a natural penchant for trouble though (call it Irish/Italian heritage), I'll ask the unstated question:
Where exactly IS the line regarding Religion and Politics on this board, or is there one defined?
Every once in a while, someone will post regarding looking for information on a particular religious song, or needing a drummer for their praise band, or looking for information on properly setting sound systems for worship teams, or simply mention something religion-related in their posting. As far as I know, nothing of that sort has been regulated on this forum, as no one is "pushing" an agenda of any sort. In fact, I've only noticed a few topics that seem to regularly generate trouble:
* Anything political
* Acoustic versus Acoustic/electric
* The "OFC" guitar
* Llamas and coconut bras
I understand the need to separate serious political discussions from this board, and honestly, anything political that is NOT a serious conversation will probably be insults and digs, neither of which belong here.
However, for many of us (apparently particularly here in the NW) our passion for our religion mirrors, complements, and is intricately tied to our passion for music. Is it going to be the determination of this board that we to whom it applies must separate completely these two things, and maintain a completely "dry" board, with nothing of a religious nature even being mentioned?
(Please don't ban me until you've tried my goodies!) :D |
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Location: Hiram, Georgia | The line is clearly crossed when we're not KIND to one another. |
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Location: San Angelo, Texas | In Follow up to Andrews question...and not to push the relious asspect of this at all...but this kinda sums it up no matter WHAT you believe, it's how most well meaning, "good" people try to live :)
Micah 6:8 (parapharsed) "It's quite simple: Do what is fair and just to your neighbor, be compassionate and loyal in your love, And don't take yourself too seriously"
We are nothing if not a loyal and passionate bunch. We have our differences, we don't agree on all things, but we accpet that about each other, poke good natured fun at each other because of it, step in to help where we can, and to defuse situations where we can't help...or just to make fun of ourselves at the expense of dave :) BUT, we all share one love...MUSIC, and the making of that thing that we love on an instrument that we also love, a guitar.
Go play the music....don't let it die...and do what you can to make it grow in someone else :) |
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| I'm very happy to have this forum mainly dicuss music. If I want politics I'll go elsewhere. I don't really care what musicians (professional and amateur) and celebrities think about politics. As discussed in this thread, that issue almost always gets personal and insulting. I'm here for the Ovation talk specifically, and the music talk in general. |
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Location: SE Michigan | I'd like to think of this place kind of like a friendly corner bar where you can stop in after work and shoot the breeze a bit. I personally see nothing wrong with anything anybody wants to comment on so long as it doesn’t become overly intense or dominating. And the thread indexes show quite a wide variety of topics.
But what fun is the corner bar if the bartender keeps telling you to change the subject and move on? And it’s been my observation that it primarily seems to be the moderators who are concerned about the topics; I think most members are pretty relaxed about it.
I still think that the moderators have been a little too quick to pull the trigger on some subjects while ignoring others. But I do not want to see the board become a whacked-out rant forum either. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by edensharvest:
for many of us (apparently particularly here in the NW) our passion for our religion mirrors, complements, and is intricately tied to our passion for music. Is it going to be the determination of this board that we to whom it applies must separate completely these two things, and maintain a completely "dry" board, with nothing of a religious nature even being mentioned?
I would hope so. It doesn't matter whether you play guitar in a church, a bar, a club or a theatre, there will always be technicalites involving sound systems, preamps, pickups, mics, monitors, feedback, or whatever which are common to all, and personaly I have no problem discussing any topics of that nature you may encounter in a worship situation. However as a devout athiest I would not welcome overtly non-secular content. |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by edensharvest:
???
Every once in a while, someone will post regarding looking for information on a particular religious song, or needing a drummer for their praise band, or looking for information on properly setting sound systems for worship teams, or simply mention something religion-related in their posting. As far as I know, nothing of that sort has been regulated on this forum, as no one is "pushing" an agenda of any sort.
*
) :D correct none of this causes a problem.
There was only one time when I had to intervene, that was when some members wanted to use the forum as a place to target members they thought may benefit from their beliefs. I had to step in at that point.
Some comments are interesting here. I like to live by this one. "You reap what you sow"
Brian
Not to beat a dead Llama here, but unless you can give me specific instances where I have come in and stopped a thread or where you feel I have not stopped a thread, I cannot give you any rationale.
I try not to be heavy handed and it was MILES that locked down the thread not me. It is still there, it is not gone, EVERYONE can read it. you just can no longer post to it.
I really said all that needs to be said long ago in this process.
"Do the music" |
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Location: SoCal | Problem is, you can never win...even if you talk about "music ministry", so many variations...heck, I'm still trying to adapt Gregorian Chants to a guitar; closest I have come to it is very early John Michael Talbot (I know, not Gregorian Chants).
In the early 80's, when this Roman Catholic played in an Episcopal Church group, we played mainly material from St. Louis Jesuits.
So, talk about your instruments and your equipment...it is music, not beliefs.
As an aside to those that create music in a service...it is a special gift. My only caution is when I have seen it as a opportunity to perform v. a complement to the service. |
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Location: San Angelo, Texas | VERY true, Tony...and a fine line that those of us called to lead worship, or to use our talent as part of a group.
I've seen it, and even been guilty of it...forgeting that it's the MUSIC, not the MUSCIAN that the people desire....which is how this whole thing got started...CSNY forgeting that it's the MUSIC :) |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Sounds like someone was naughty while I was gone. I missed the board the past week. Good to see it hasn't changed. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by Tony Calman:
In the early 80's, when this Roman Catholic played in an Episcopal Church group, we played mainly material from St. Louis Jesuits. I cut my teeth on that stuff. I went to a Jesuit high school, graduated in 1981. There was a certain category of priests we called the "earthen vessels" crowd.
Now that I've gotten older, I think I've turned into one of them, except for the priest part I suppose. We still play StLJ stuff at mass every week.
Back to the topic at hand, I still think this group has a unique character that I don't see anywhere else. I applaud the moderators for their efforts. Its a big job (I moderate a Yahoo group), and its hard to appreciate the time it takes. Plus, it is utterly thankless. No matter where you draw the line, someone is on the wrong side of it. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I don't think anything on this board should change. I agree with Brian 100%, the corner bar will not be a fun place if the bartender has to limit what you can talk about. Nothing wrong with pushing the envelope. When someone crosses the line, the moderators should slap him down. If you don't like what you read here, then go somewhere else. 99.9% of the time we are civil to each other and tolerant of other peoples views. Disagreements are healthy, unless it gets personal. Llamas, coconut bras, and occasional use of the words shit and fuck is no big deal. If it plays on HBO it should play here. Just imagine how much fun this board would be if every thread was either 1) what strings should I use, or 2) how much is my guitar worth ??? Expressing ones views on real life topics is healthy and fun. Just don't hurt others in the process.
If someone goes too far, then the moderators can just shut it down. What's the big deal? That's their job. And no, they aren't going to be necessarily "fair" in everyones eyes. Maybe they're quick to shut down Bush suporters and too tolerant of Llama talk. Big deal. Maybe they allow religous messeges in signature lines but not political messeges. So what. IT'S A FREE OF CHARGE, ONLINE FORUM! for christs sake. We members have no right to expect anything. The fact that this forum even exists should be considered an absolute blessing. Use it, enjoy it, don't hurt others, don't expect anything in return, and if you don't like what you read here or if you don't like how the moderators run it, than just go someplace else.
Dave |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Can you make the page look more like an Excel Spreadsheet so my Boss... |
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Location: Chehalis, Washington | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Originally posted by edensharvest:
for many of us (apparently particularly here in the NW) our passion for our religion mirrors, complements, and is intricately tied to our passion for music. Is it going to be the determination of this board that we to whom it applies must separate completely these two things, and maintain a completely "dry" board, with nothing of a religious nature even being mentioned?
I would hope so. It doesn't matter whether you play guitar in a church, a bar, a club or a theatre, there will always be technicalites involving sound systems, preamps, pickups, mics, monitors, feedback, or whatever which are common to all, and personaly I have no problem discussing any topics of that nature you may encounter in a worship situation. However as a devout athiest I would not welcome overtly non-secular content.
If you wanted to email me in private by the way, I always love a good theological debate! :D
My concern was more than anything else, how much on "tip-toes" do we need to be? For example, a thread a couple months ago was on a topic along the lines of "WHICH ARTIST DO YOU SOUND/LOOK LIKE?". Obviously, this will pull from people's own styles, opinions, etc, and everyone has a different answer. Mine, honestly, was a contemporary Christian/country artist, which by naming him brings up something of a religious nature. I didn't elaborate on it, I didn't begin a long declaration of the greatness of this performer and his message, it was simply a reference. It would be the same if someone asked for favorite songs - as someone who performs primarily in a church setting, my favorite performing songs are mostly religious in nature. When I said "dry" board, my question is should I (and those in similar situations) not respond at all, for fear that we are introducing a "religious idea?"
Obviously, it sounds a bit silly and paranoid; however, I've found it's better, particularly with a topic like this open, to know for sure where the rule stands. It would be like if I took offense to someone liking Green Day because I don't believe in their political stance - it doesn't have anything to do with me if someone says that they like that particular band's music, or asks someone if they have a chord sheet. Those type of things should be irrelevant here.
On another mostly unrelated note, I played my 1718 alongside a guy with a Taylor 414ce today at church, and the Elite totally blew his Taylor out of the water. Go O!
(Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, what about posts related to football? :eek: ) |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | Original post by Paul Templeman:
For what it's worth, Wildwood made a post about a concert he attended at which he'd had a great time, making no comments whatsover about anything other than THE MUSIC. 2 or maybe 3 people who WERE NOT THERE b!*@#ed (edited for content) about alleged political content, based on hearsay. I'm sure CSNY were far from apolitical, but if you weren't there to experience it for yourself, how would you know, and why would you bother making an unqualified comment?
I can see elements of both sides of this issue-- and I can see where Al and Miles should be granted sainthood for dealing with the headaches of keeping this board going. As Paul stated above, the CSNY post WAS originally a post about music. Wildwood really enjoyed the concert. Notice HE didn't mention anything about
p@!*tical (edited for content) issues. This means either a), it didn't bother him, or b) the p@!*tical content was minimal at best. What constitutes a "rant" depends on which side of the fence you're on. To some, it's a 45 minute nonstop diatribe; to others, an offhanded comment here and there is enough to send them through the roof. I've seen CSN and CSNY. They aren't subtle about expressing their
p@!*itical opinions; however, neither do they go on and on about them, either. A line or two at the intro of a song. I've never found it particularly distracting. Once you pay your money, you get the whole package-- and if it's not your cup of tea, you can always leave. I'm not going to debate whether it's right or wrong of them to do that, but for those of you who haven't seen them live, I say caveat emptor:buyer beware.
I would hate to see this board become a white bread, homogenized milk, watered-down forum. It's nice to stir things up once in a while to keep it interesting, but there is a right way to do it. Al and Miles's #1 rule is "be kind to one another." We can agree to disagree and not descend to name-calling. A wise man once said, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." There is a large, vocal (and disturbing) contingent of people in this country who think that quote should read, "I don't agree with what you have to say, and I'm going to kill you." I don't think we have anyone like that here-- I hope. Case in point: the Dixie Chicks had the audacity to make some rude comments about George B@$h (edited for content), the head of state of a hypothetical Western superpower. Now, up until very recently, if you criticized George B@$h at ALL, the prevailing attitude was that you should be deported. My country right or wrong. America--love it or leave it. Lately as his approval rating has gone into free fall, you've been able to get away with a little more. The Dixie Chicks received DEATH THREATS for their statements. Here in town, for example, somebody called in to a local talk show and said, "I'd like to tie them g*&d@%$ed (edited for content)Dixie Chicks to the bumper of mah pickup truck and drag 'em to death!" His sentiments were echoed by a number of callers. Now you tell me which is worse: insulting Mr. B@$h, or making a death threat? I think Mr. B@$h is a big boy; he wouldn't have sought the job if he didn't have a thick skin. But to threaten to KILL somebody because you don't like what they say? Come on! Again, nobody here has evinced that type of extreme behavior, but some folks DO get extremely riled up over relatively trivial issues. Again, if we're "kinder and gentler," we can maybe dicuss things that are a little controversial without going over the top.
Oh-- and those of you who commented that "they should go back to their crack pipes (I'm assuming a reference to David Crosby?)" -- the Croz has kept his nose clean (literally) since he got out of jail in the late '80's, and is subject to random drug tests. Give the guy a break; he's on his second liver, already! |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by edensharvest:
[
My concern was more than anything else, how much on "tip-toes" do we need to be? For example, a thread a couple months ago was on a topic along the lines of "WHICH ARTIST DO YOU SOUND/LOOK LIKE?". Obviously, this will pull from people's own styles, opinions, etc, and everyone has a different answer. Mine, honestly, was a contemporary Christian/country artist, which by naming him brings up something of a religious nature. I didn't elaborate on it, I didn't begin a long declaration of the greatness of this performer and his message, it was simply a reference. It would be the same if someone asked for favorite songs - as someone who performs primarily in a church setting, my favorite performing songs are mostly religious in nature. When I said "dry" board, my question is should I (and those in similar situations) not respond at all, for fear that we are introducing a "religious idea?"
(Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, what about posts related to football? :eek: ) [/QB] ok from what you described above there is no problem. BUT let's say for example, that you posted I like christian musician X because of the message of his songs and the manner in which he presents his ideas. harmless and fine not a problem BUT if the next person posts that he is against Christian music and then the thread degenerates into a "my religion is better than yours" thread. I would step in.
This is all subjective and 99 percent of the time there is no problem.
As for football, post on that all you want I know NOTHING about it and you can probably pull all kinds of stuff over on me.
As for tuppy,
I have not got into regulating signature lines but that is a good point. If someone posted an offensive one and members suggested I have it removed, I would have to look into it. The best rule is to keep your politics and religion to yourself and you will not offend anyone.
I just wanted to comment that today was a beautiful day in NJ temperature about 73, low himidity and not a cloud in the sky. It was great to get outside and enjoy the day and then take my wife out to dinner. Unfortunately, I had to keep checking in on the board to make sure everyone plays nice.
Time to get some sleep. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by rick endres:
There is a large, vocal (and disturbing) contingent of people in this country who think that quote should read, "I don't agree with what you have to say, and I'm going to kill you." At the risk of sending this thread completely over the edge, the quote above is an example of precisely the sort of thing I worry about.
Comments such as that are sure to bring a response. Once some one makes a highly political statement like that, he should expect a reply, and so on and so on. No one will be pursuaded. But a bunch of people will be annoyed.
Better to not get it started in the first place. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I frankly don't understand... a lot of this thread, so I'm just posting to say that. NOTHING has changed or will change is MY point. I closed ONE thread, BEFORE it went to a place it shouldn't. If you don't understand, that's fine. It's not your job or place to worry about that stuff. It's the stuff that Al and I are responsible for worrying about.
As I said, nothing has changed, nothing is going to. Relax and enjoy, just like you have been for the past nearly 4 years. |
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Posts: 629
Location: Houston, Texas | Originally posted by alpep:
I just wanted to comment that today was a beautiful day in NJ temperature about 73, low himidity and not a cloud in the sky. It was great to get outside and enjoy the day and then take my wife out to dinner. Unfortunately, I had to keep checking in on the board to make sure everyone plays nice. I'm glad you had a nice day and dinner Al, you deserve it after a tough summer.
Let's all go back to enjoying this board for what it is and quit complaining about what it isn't. |
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Location: Hiram, Georgia | Amen! |
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Location: Orange County, California | Originally posted by Brian T:
I thought I'd pass along the URL of a guitar forum that actually allows people to talk and express their thoughts, and not just thoughts pertaining to bathroom humor:
Not one thread over there about Ovation or Adamas guitars, llamas, or men in grass skirts wearing coconut brasiers.... Who'd wanna go someplace where all they talk about is "regular" guitars and politics?! :p :D :p :D |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | The bottom line is that we are here because of the one thing that we ALL agree on. We love Ovations. The rest of it really doesn't matter. Maybe, on a day like today, we should be thankful to be here and remember what's really important. |
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Posts: 171
Location: Indiana | The bottom line is that we are here because of the one thing that we ALL agree on. We love Ovations. The rest of it really doesn't matter. Maybe, on a day like today, we should be thankful to be here and remember what's really important.
Well said. I've been out for a while. Things sometimes pull me away for a bit but I keep coming back because I like it here. I sympathize with both sides of this issue and had to come to terms with my own outspoken nature a while back on this board. I have strong mixed feelings about the whole thing. The peacekeeper that has always been in me likes harmony among his friends and hates bad vibes....but the socially conscious activist in me knows our world, our nation and everything we have come to enjoy ...is in serious trouble and most don't want to discuss it because it is a downer. But it won't go away. Many feel a need to talk about the important things and I know of none more important than the immediate danger we are in. There are certainly many other places to do this but would that discussion be among those you have grown close too...among your friends? I find it sad that if Josh White were here today playing anti-war or anti-imperialist songs on his Ovation, that he may not be welcome to discuss his motivation here. I find it sad that if a war vet comes home and finds refuge in his new Ovation ...then perhaps finds this site, that he may not be able to discuss the pain he is carrying that his music is helping him deal with. But it also sucks that things often can't be discussed without tempers flaring.
In our forefathers day, they did not have the net and the place to gather and discuss the issues of the day was often the town pub. It was the place to enjoy live music (the best kind), spirits, hang with friends and talk about everything. Brian's mention of the local bar reminded me of that. I have no doubt that if our forefathers were here today what would be dominating those discussions.
peace... |
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Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | “the socially conscious activist in me knows our world, our nation and everything we have come to enjoy is in serious trouble and most don't want to discuss it because it is a downer. But it won't go away.”
“There are certainly many other places to do this but would that discussion be among those you have grown close too...among your friends?”
Can I get an amen and a Hallelujah! Finally some one seems to get my point!
Having met a lot of members on this board, it’s a lot more meaningful to have a discussion here than on some Yahoo Rant Room. And I am not proposing turning this into a Rant Room either. But as Mark stated, it’s a shame that when music, guitars, and political/social issues happen to cross paths, we have to shun the topic. |
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Location: Snellville, GA | Okay, usually I can kill a thread, here goes...
I don't think you can have a civil discussion of politics and religion in today's climate on a message board without it degenerating into something worse. The country is so far divided on both that more than a few would be offended. You could get away with it at work or at a coffee shop or wherever because it's with relatively few people, but with 5,000 or so on an internet message board...well, you could see where it could get real ugly real quick.
Maybe I'm wrong...won't be the first time. |
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Location: SoCal | Our country has had conflict, division, and strife throughout its relative young history. The divisions often create and reinforce strength.
Yes, civility is at a low, yet remember the attack on Senator Sumner in 1856.
Our media has not helped...remember when Paul Begala and Lt. Col North co-chaired "Equal Time" on MSNBC? Begala has worked extensively with James Carville, to include co-authoring several books with him. Heated, divisive "discussions". Yet, friends after the cameras were off. Rush Limbaugh was a guest at the Carville/Matalin wedding. My inside information is that there were "discussions" but also respect as they understood there was a basis behind their beliefs. Yet, a dog fight for the cameras. They gained respect from discussions, their attacks were a performance for the audience.
My definition of discussion is an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with a specific topic; an exchange of views; a conversation without bias or fear; intended purpose is to explain, analyze, and compare.
Unfortunately, blogs and forums are not the means to come to an understanding or to "educate" someone on the truth. It is a single dimension. Short statements about beliefs and actions are deemed to be an attack. Personally, I am a social moderate and a conservative in defense and fiscal. By most, in a open discussion, I am respected for my views. They may not agree with me but they do respect how and why I have developed my position(s).
I do not respect or appreciate the use of this forum or any other where individuals interject short statements that have no impact other than to create dissension or conflict. Those individuals that feel a need to do this are part of the problem. I am convinced that this is not a protection under the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights. I am a student of political science as many of my forebearers were historically significant in the success and plight of mankind, seven signers of the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson is a 1st cousin, etc. Heck, some of my family is or were (deceased) very liberal (my mom worked for Sen. Wayne Morris, went to Democratic Conventions, etc.; also have a few tree-huggers and pacifists; one was subpoenaed and testified (later blacklisted) before the House Un-American Activities Committee. Disagreement but respect for the individual.
Stand on a street corner, write an editorial, discuss it in private meetings or small groups. Do it in a civil manner with facts. You have the freedom of expression in the appropriate time and place.
Again, civility. |
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Posts: 120
Location: Gardnerville, NV | Actually TWA you've been proven right on almost every thread that has ventured into politics or religion in the couple of years I've been reading this board. |
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Posts: 274
Location: Maryland, USA | Originally posted by MWoody:
Can you make the page look more like an Excel Spreadsheet so my Boss... check out Ghostzilla.com
You may find it interesting ;) |
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Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | 5 years ago on another board, probably Porsches or BMWs, I suggested that we wait until we had better information on who the hijackers were before we called for nukes to be dropped on Baghdad, as some other poster suggested. One response was that I was as bad as Osama! I've been called a lot of things, but that was one of the worst. I just don't like what happens to people when they get into political discussions, especially when the passions are inflamed, like on September 11. I agree with Mark that there is a time and place for protest, but I don't think this is it. |
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Location: NJ | btw:
Just to tie this whole politico/muso/CSN&Y thing all together:
The very last tune on the most current Crosby/Nash album has probably the most beautiful version of "My Country, 'Tis of Thee" ever recorded. |
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | No. Read the "Welcome" page. No. |
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Location: Long Island, NY | There's a huge difference between a vocal political debate at a pub and written comments on an internet site. It's the power of the written word. If you say something at a bar, once it's said it's gone and it may not have been heard by everyone there. Once something is posted on a board it remains to be read, re-read, reflected upon, etc. That leads to tempers flaring and the vile acidic remarks that you can view on the rant sites.
This, or any board, cannot be a substitute for open face to face discussions. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by flipsyde7589:
There's a huge difference between a vocal political debate at a pub and written comments on an internet site. It's the power of the written word. If you say something at a bar, once it's said it's gone and it may not have been heard by everyone there. Once something is posted on a board it remains to be read, re-read, reflected upon, etc. That leads to tempers flaring and the vile acidic remarks that you can view on the rant sites.
This, or any board, cannot be a substitute for open face to face discussions. Wow... I actually called Al this evening because I couldn't find the words... now I know who had them!!! |
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Guitar forum that welcomes political comments