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Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | .....now I feel dirty.
I wasn't going to post this, but as I saw the Strat thread, I figured why not. I have been thinking that when I get my studio back up I should have some classic gear to play with, specifically a Les Paul Standard and a Strat. Well today I went and looked at Les Paul's. Disappointment is the only word I can use. Keep in mind, other than Ovation, the only other solid bodies I have been fond of are handmade or handfinished guitars like Hamer, early BC Rich, and Neal Moser guitars. I've played Strats and Les Pauls over the years, but never really looked closely at them. Now I have to admit, the guitars I saw "played" great. But that's not enough for me. I need to see the workmanship. When Lisa, a non-guitar player (well actually she started yesterday to learn) was having to hold her tongue from comment, that's a statement. I actually did pretty good myself. My only slip up was asking if the better models came with real tuners and realized I was looking at Gibson's version of "real" tuners. To me they looked like the crap Klusons that were on the old early Tornado's... ooops.. The heel joints, although clean and tight, looked like a bunch of pieces of unrelated wood fitted together.
I'm also used to the build quality and price being unrelated. As with Hamer, they build quality, is the build quality. Price is determined by what materials and what accessories are added, but all of the USA Built guitars have the same craftsmanship.
What I learned is basically if I want a guitar almost as good as a Hamer Monaco SuperPro, I would be looking at a Gibson Custom Shop guitar for nearly $6000.00. That's just nuts when I can get a guitar completely hand-made, custom designed for ME, or a customized hand finished Hamer for half that.
Now don't get me wrong. I thought they were all fine guitars, fine players. There was one Standard that was about $3000. To me it was a great $1200-$1500 guitar.
I guess much like Harley Davidson motorcycles, I just don't get it, and I never will. |
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August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
I guess much like Harley Davidson motorcycles, I just don't get it, and I never will. You and me both, mate. |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Well said, and you didn't even swear once. Cliff or I wouldn't have been able to do that! And I couldn't agree more with the Hamer comments. |
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September 2004
Posts: 1180
Location: Vermont USA | What's the range of a Gibson Les Paul?
Depends on how far you throw it.
I saw this and just had to post it.
Pauly |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I have a Gibson Les Paul Standard, among others, and a Harley, among others. I don't get it, either. |
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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Miles,
When the rain returns we'll all be renewed!
Since you are here (NW) why don't you go over to Poulsbo and talk with TV Jones and see what his shop is all about. He has a handsome line up of instruments. I would be interested in mapping out local Luthiers and Shops. I know we have a few here. |
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August 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Minnesota | Over the years I've always wanted a real les paul, but just never hooked up with the right one for a decent price! If you ask me Gibson is on the brink of being flushed right on down the old crapper. I've used mostly teles and strats on stage because even the custom shop axes were priced reasonable until recent years. IMHO the only quality axe Gibson has put for some time is the Country Gentleman. For the the kinda money Gibson, and even Fender are asking now, there is alot of other better quality choices for less money. Maybe someday I'll be a gazillionare, and buy an outragously priced vintage LP, just to satisfy that mild LP GAS that has that has plagued me over the years :cool: |
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Posts: 766
Location: New Hampsha | A top-line Epiphone Les Paul will look/sound as good or better for almost half the price as the Gibby. |
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April 2006
Posts: 1138
Location: CT | Gibson is all about mojo now. If you play a 'Paul, you're cool. Ages ago Jimmy Page was my idol, so I wanted a LP standard, or anything with 'Gibson' on the headstock. My first Gibson was an SG because it was cheaper, but it sounded like crap. Played unplugged, the strings were dead. They just didn't ring out at all. The next one was an '82 wine red standard, which played and sounded good, but not really better than the Washburn Eagle I sold to help pay for it, plus the Washburn had coil taps. The most recent was the 25/50 anniversary which DOES have a coil tap switch(for the price, Gibson should include this $1.00 part on all their guitars), and played and sounded fantastic. I sold that though, because it didn't see a lot of use, and I wanted a 12 string. I got 2, and pocketed a good bit of change afterwards(pix of all 3 in the gallery). Let me end this ramble just by saying, in the old days, the Gibson was worth it compared to the department store crap, but for less money now, there are a lot of companies making excellent guitars. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "A top-line Epiphone Les Paul will look/sound as good or better for almost half the price as the Gibby."
Actually several years ago a friends son (who later became my guitar tech for awhile) brought by his new Epi Les Paul. I remember being quite impressed with it, especially for the price. |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | as to the current high end strats, i'm underwhelmed by the them. Sounds like the gibsons are not only underwhelming, but inadequate. I wish I could give some advice on what to substitute for a les paul. Like I said in the other thread, I'd go with the G&L's if I were to pickup a strat. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | H-a-m-e-r. |
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Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | I have a friend who has a T shirt with the Harley Davidson emblem and a message asking "If they made helicopters, would you fly in one?" |
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July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I looked at a Gibson LP that our local GC had on sale back in February when I was first jonesin' for a solid-body electric.....it was one of the matte finish 'burst Pauls, with a 50s thick neck. Normally $1900, but for some reason, this particular one was on sale for $1200. I played it at some length, and then tried a Mex Strat, and just could NOT justify even the $800 increment (on sale) to myself over a MIM Strat. It didn't sound as good, and it certainly didn't play as well....the action stunk.
I ended up with a $600 MIM 70s Strat, and haven't regretted it for a second.
Roger |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Miles
I hate to say I told you so. As I said in our coversation a day or so ago. I have owned and played many guitars. I am at the point in my life where I don't care who made it or what it says on the headstock (except for my D'Angelico) what matters to me is how it plays and how it sounds. I have no one to impress anymore, all the bims have turned into milf's and they don't seem interested any more.... |
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January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by alpep:
... all the bims have turned into milf's and they don't seem interested any more.... MILF? Members I'd like to ??? I don't get it, Al.
Dave |
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Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | "My Itchy Little Fingers" |
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July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | MILF......
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=milf
I didn't know what it meant, either....
Roger |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | OK, besides H-A-M-E-R, I can think of another Les Paul like guitar I liked. It was an ESP with a bolt on neck, as I recall it was about $400.00 at GC. The scale length was 25 inches. You get a lot for the money. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | My partner Rick used one of those when we had the 4-pc. "rock" band.
They were "okay" . . .
Y'definitely got your $400 worth. |
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November 2004
Posts: 382
Location: USA | I too took a walk on the Dark Side...forgive me fellow peeps :)
I tried the new...cough cough...Taylor Electric Acousitc T5...
I was not disappointed with the guitar...but It will take a ton of more convining to shell out the bucks they are asking. |
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November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Anybody out there done a head to head twixed the Duotone and T5? |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I've been playing a DuoTone(w2's), which I like (aLOT!), but I've never picked up a T-5.
I saw one in GC last week, but didn't have my "shades" with me and was afraid that someone I know might see me . . . . |
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November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub |  |
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November 2005
Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | What happens in the guitar store, stays in the guitar store...  |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | The Duotone and the T5 are interesting concepts, but for my taste they offer nothing more than a pretty good generic electric sound and a pretty good generic acoustic sound. Competent but nothing to get excited about. And that's before you even think about string guage, set-up and dual amplification issues. For me they'd only be useful if I needed both sounds during one song which seems like an expensive hammer to crack a walnut. What's the problem with carrying guitars that are designed for a specific purpose and not having to deal with the compromises inhierent in hybrid instruments? Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking them, they just don't have a place in what I do. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | The only thing that I found lacking on the DuoTone is a tone control for the piezo.
Other'n that, it's a KickAss guitar . . . |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | The problem I have with hybrids is that if you set them up low & light light like an electric guitar the piezo sound sucks, and if you up the gauge to give the acoustic tone some guts they no longer play and feel like an electric. No matter what you do there are major compromises in tone and feel which is nothing to do with the design and everything to do with the fact that electric guitars and acoustic guitars are completely different animals. Screw the convenience, I'd rather haul extra guitars. On the last batch of Cheevers UK tour dates I was carrying 5 stage instruments plus 2 backups, so I guess I'm used to it.
I guess they are perfect for the predominantly electric player who needs an acoustic-like tone for a couple of numbers and that's probably their target market. |
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August 2006
Posts: 11
| I have owned many Gibsons in my day. It used to be Gibson guitars and Fender tube amps. I've had a number of Les Pauls, but could never get comfortable with them. ES335's were always my favorites. Now, I don't own a single Gibson. I have a Ibanez AS200 and a Hamer DuoTone. Love them both. I saw a beautiful Hamer Artist in a place called Fearless Guitars in Portland (the owner is a luthier, a guy named Chance). He was only asking about $1200 for the Artist. A nice buy. For the bolt-on neck crowd (and I own four, not including my Roland strat-type guitars), check out US Masters guitars. They're sold mostly on line and made in Wisconsin. www.usmasters.com. They do a compression set neck design that is as brilliant as it is simple. Nice stuff at great prices. By the way, I've also owned a couple of Harleys. Just sold my 2003 Road King for what I paid for it. If I'd held it longer, I might have gotten more. I guess re-sale is the only reason to own some things. Keep playing. |
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August 2006
Posts: 11
| Just noticed my reply got posted on the wrong thread. The comments regarding Gibson and Harleys make a lot more sense in context with Mr. Ovation's walk on the dark side. Regarding the Hamer Duotone though, it's a great guitar for what it is. It neither replaces, or adequately compensates for an Ovation, but it is a unique animal. Mine has Fat Cat P-90's and a Roland GK2 pickup. The Fat Cats make is seem like a favorite old SG and the Roland pickup sounds combine with the acoustic/piezo pickup sound great for background and keyboard-like parts. It's just a really different animal and I like it for that. |
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July 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Oregon | Well I tred there today. My guitar teacher(who sells Ibanez) told me to tru out his new shipment. Because he knows I have constant gas... you know what I mean. Anyway he handed me a http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=AW500NT Sounds awesome. I've always loved Ibanez, and must say they sound great. I don't really care for their looks though. There strong point are there electrics I think anyway. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think if I just wanted an LP style guitar other than a Hamer, the only one that has impressed me resently are Nik Huber guitars.
Keep in mind the only reason I was interested in an LP was just to have in the studio for familiarity of artists that stop by some traditional gear. But unless I stumble on one helluva deal, I don't think that will be happening.
However, I did happen by the store again today, and I decided I would have to get a black LP if I got one at all. At least in black, I don't have the neck joint and other issues I'm concerned about staring me in the face. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | I know Nik Huber. In fact I had lunch or dinner with him a couple of times. Nice guy, competent builder and puts out a damn nice guitar. My only problem with his guitars are the finishes. although they are good, Hamers still seem to have a ton more persepective in there. It may have to do with Hamer does not usually double stain. |
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August 2003
Posts: 430
Location: Lebanon, TN | For me the Brian Moore 24.5" scale guitars are great. I loved that 2.13 I had to sell recently and I would buy one again in a heartbeat. Street price new is only around the $1400 mark.
They also do some marvellous custom builds for around the same a stock Gibberish LP would sell for with greater utility, better looks and that cache that the unknown brands bring. Find more at www.iguitar.com |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Thanks for the Brian Moore link.
I looked in their "recently shipped" section.
They shipped a semi-hollow koa to my local music store of choice. I'll have to look for it when I stop in on monday. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | IMHO the import brian moore guitars are expensive |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | If you\'re looking for an ibanez, this is great. But it\'s not a les paul type, though it has two humbuckers. Very easy playing. The necks are to die for. |
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OT - I tested the water on the dark side...