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| I took the Breadwinner into my guitar tech today to confirm my suspiscion that the neck is fine. We looked it over (nut, bridge, frets, neck curvature) and came to the conclusion that the neck is perfectly straight-the 24th fret just seems to be off in its placement on the board. How this is, I do not know, but that just seems to be the way it came from the factory 24 years ago.
I'd like to offer this instrument to the OFC again at $700+shipping of buyer's choice. This is (for those of you not yet subscribed to the soap opera that has been owning this instrument)a '79-'81 Breadwinner Limited, one of 500 produced to this specification. Condition is very good. The only major finish flaws are two dings on the lower side of the guitar, one of which just barely goes through to the finish. There is also a mysterious area on the the top of the guitar near the elbow contour where the finish seems to have sunken. This cannot be felt and is only visible under certain lighting. Also (I forgot to include this originally) the finish around the fret ends on the sides of the neck has worn somewhat, creating small bumps that can be felt while playing. They don't catch or cut your hand; they just can be felt.
The frets are in good condition. Hardware and electronics are all-original. I will ship with the original hardcase, which is in good shape. The flaws with the case are as follows: The inner compartment door under the neck has seperated from the case, and there is some corrosion on the latches. The lid ribbon is intact.
I can provide more details to interested parties on request. Please PM me for more info.
(edit) I also have MWoody making an Ebony truss rod cover to replace the current one, which is cracked at the corners. I'll mail this to the buyer when I get it at no extra cost. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I am looking at where the saddles are set. I think the treble is a trifle forward.
Any one else?
Hope to have it out this weekend. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Yeah, Wood-ster this whole thing troubles me too. I noticed that the screw heads on the pickguard screws are not all facing exactly the same way and that the G string has about an extra 1/8 inch or excess at the tuners compared to the other strings. Dave |
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Location: Upper Left USA | C'mon Dave! I just wanted to sound smart like one of those guys named Paul!
Good thing I have that "sarcasm" filter installed. It shows all sarcastic postings in black letters... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | 24th fret is off. OK, how often do you play it? |
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| Not often.
The volume and tone knobs are about 1/64th of an inch too high off the pickguard-that might have something to do with it as well. ;) |
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Location: Midland, MI | I'm still wondering why you'd need to go past the first five frets. |
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Location: Orange County, California | Well, if you jack the action up and play slide on it... :p |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | The knobs can be lowered, the fret can't be moved. |
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| With all seriousness, I had this intonated after the "red-carpet" picture was taken. Improved, but didn't fix, the issue. |
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Location: Keller, TX | Originally posted by cruster:
I'm still wondering why you'd need to go past the first five frets. Sometimes you have to put a capo on the third fret. |
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| Or the 12th, for a poor man's mandolin... |
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| Got a request for more pics, so I'm loading these on a picture-by-picture basis...
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| 
The first major ding on the lower side of the instrument. Wide, but not deep. |
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| The 24th fret.
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| The tuners.
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| 
The headstock logo. |
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| Any more that I should post besides this one? I have pictures from virtually every angle.
The 2nd dent:
Not as big as the first and does not go through the finish.
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| Oh, I forgot:
This nasty-looking thing. It looks bad, but I swear to God that you cannot feel it when you run your hand over it. Only visible in certain lighting (as here.)
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| Perhaps a dumb question, but I feel as if it needs asking.
Am I trying to make a flower out of a dog turd here? Does the fret issue make this an unsellable instrument? |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Katana6506:
Does the fret issue make this an unsellable instrument? Absolutely. At the risk of being shunned by my friends who can play at the 24th fret and yet be in tune, I'll give you $100 for it, just because you're a Club member, and I haven't done my good deed yet today. So you don't feel guilty about owning it.
Please, don't make a big deal out of it. It's just the kind of guy I am.
Kat, most people I know get nose bleeds when they play above the 14th fret. If they're up around the 20th, they're so dizzy they are bending all over the place anyway. The 24th fret, IMHO, is a piece of real estate where intonation matters to very few. |
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Location: NJ | . . . and getcher FEET off the furniture!!! |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | I totally agree with Waskel, Kat. You have no idea how bad I've made a 24th fret sound knowing, for a fact, that the guitar I was playing was dead on. I think, in all fairness and honesty, you have to disclose that you do believe it to be off but it really should matter more to collectors than to players. You may not end up getting what you'd like for it but I would have to believe that guitar is far from a complete turd. I would love to take a fair shot at it but now's just not the time for me.
(That said, and Waskel may hate me for this - but just don't tell him, k? - but I've got $101 if you're interested.) |
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Location: closely held secret | $102.50 - and I've heard from reliable sources that Weaser abuses his guitars late at night... you don't want that on you conscience, do you? |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | Unfortunately, that's a proven fact... |
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Location: Maryland, USA | I don't think it's the guitar your selling Katana...it's just that we're all flat out broke, and would love to buy the guitar if we had more of something beautiful I like to call mulah ;) |
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Location: Orlando, FL | Katana,
Still a great guitar. And I personally think its a great price. If I hadn't bought 2 guitars since September, I would definitely jump on it. If it's still around by Christmas, I might be able to make some successful hints to the wife. :) Of course, I'll probably be broke by then. :( |
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| It'll be around for a while, though I'm still waiting on a couple of Club members to get back to me. It's sort of urgent, though, because I don't know how much longer the particular guitar I have my eye on will be around. |
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| Originally posted by cliff:
. . . and getcher FEET off the furniture!!! :)
For lack of an ottoman, there is the coffee table... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | While sales on used guitars are starting to heat up, the real activity will kick in around the first of December when people start an ebay feeding frenzy.
I have several nice guitars offered first to the OFC that I decided at the last minute not to put on ebay for another month. Demand and higher prices will be much better at that time. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I like the way you think Stephen. Unfortunately I have to amass funds before December 1-ish. |
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| I have a sales call to make today-if there are no bites from that, I'll probably put it back on Ebay. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Jeff,
Oiled or lacquered?
Walnut and Ebony TRCs
Black is hard to photograph or scan. You might be able to edit the pic and lighten it up.
I am thinking shiny lacquer will work with your Limited. |
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| The lacquer would best match the gloss on the plastic parts, I think.
Which one is which? |
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| Woody, let's go with the gloss one. Send me a PM with your payment details and I'll fire off the cash to your account.
All forumites who have contacted me about this instrument-I need a yea or nay sometime around Wednesday this week so that I know how to proceed. :) |
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Location: Upper Left USA | What's a payment? You mean I should like, charge money? That would take all the fun out of it.
The lacquer is curing, PM your mailing address. |
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| I had a request for more pics of a Barnboard Limited-they can be found here.
http://www.doremi.co.uk/breadwinner/my.html |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Oh, I was thinking more like this:
Barn Boards
Or more like this one .
No? Not this one
I wish the Breadwinner site had more attention. I check it weekly and end up refering most questions here. |
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| :D |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Hey Woody, were the Ditty Bops to your liking?
I have a thing for groups that have unusal harmonies . :D |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Have been busy but not too busy to say thanks! I wish I could hang around a couple of singers that good. An aquired taste but smooth.
I need to go back to it. And thanks for the "Guitar Repair" DVD from either you or the Slpster! |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Both were from me as a personal present to you.....not to be passed on.
The OFC trinkets to pass along when you ship are as follows.....
Slipster was kind enough to enclose the Cd with tabs and I enclosed the other 2 cd's with backing tracks. No, they weren't acoustic but I though some of our members might enjoy rocking out a bit. |
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| Again, those forumites who contacted me about this guitar-I need a yea or nay around Wednesday this week so that I know how to proceed. |
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Location: Plattsburgh, NY | I play ovations for the 24th fret Damn it!!
Just bought a Viper to hopefully replace my tele so I can get up there!
Jeez guys! Anyone who wanks their guitar knows they need to use the 24th fret.
Seriously... I use it ever 3rd or 4th song we write. That's enough to need it! I'd miss it if it were gone. |
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| The chips have fallen and it didn't sell here.
Although there's some interest on other sites, I'm probably just going to stick it back on Ebay, as the slightly butchered one I posted about a few days ago sold for $750. If the right buyer exists for this thing... |
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Location: SoCal | Hurry up and get it back up on eBay...
That other barnwood-finished Limited that I won for around $975 turned out to be a mess. It went back and I assume it will be going back up on eBay soon.
The Limited you posted about a few days ago was purchased by fugot (one of our own). The issues on fugot's, even in the hi-res close-up pictures received from the Seller, seem minor. If fugot would not have been going for it, I would have. A few OEM cosmetic parts, move the strap button back where it came from, polish it up... and it looks just as good as Stephen's or mine. The screw hole left on the horn from the strap button can be made to almost disappear on the natural finish.
If you keep calling the one fugot just bought butchered, how would you rate yours? Since August, you've posted numerous issues about your Limited. The twisted neck issue has morphed into a new dimension. The eBay description was another variation. You talked about needing a neck refinish here, but the eBay description differs. Serious buyers of these guitars follow the auctions and probably read the OFC board and other boards as well.
IMHO, your sales tactics are working against you. |
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| Okay. Let's review.
I bought this guitar in August 2005. In early September, I noted that the intonation of the instrument at the 24th fret was off and took it into my tech for an adjustment. While this improved the intonation a bit, it did not cure the problem, and so I began looking at other factors that might be contributing to the issue.
It was here that my zeal got the best of me, as I assumed that I had the authority to recognize and diagnose problems with instruments. I don't. I've been playing for only a year and a half, and my collective experience with instrument repair is nil. Anyway, one night, I was looking at the neck of the instrument, and it seemed to me as if it was twisted. This provoked a rather profane outburst from yours truly, and I was feeling pretty stupid at being hoodwinked into buying a lemon. I then decided to put it on Ebay, just to be rid of it. I listed pretty much every concievable thing wrong with the instrument, including the neck problem, and the guitar didn't sell at the price I wanted.
After a period of disappointment, I decided to have another look at the neck, so I removed the strings from the guitar and looked down the neck from several different angles. The neck proper was not out of true to my eye-the nut was. Instead of the nut-slot area and base being parallel, the top of the nut was slanting relative to the base, creating the illusion of a neck that was out of true. With this in mind, I took the guitar back to my tech and had hime examine the neck. His conclusion was that while the neck was not warped, the 24th fret was off in its placement on the board, which in turn caused the high E on that fret to play flat. I'll be getting a letter from him this week certifying this conclusion.
The eBay description was not a "variation" of anything that I had posted on this board-it was just a summary of everything that I've posted here. I didn't introduce any new problems or issues in the auction. I detailed everything that was wrong (or perceived to be wrong) with the instrument-nothing more.
As to the neck replacement and refinish issues, those were the result of my thinking on the board, not an indication of problems with the guitar. For one, I no longer need a replacement neck, as the one on the guitar now is fine if I avoid the 24th fret. For two, Ovation can no longer spray the Barnwood finish; therefore, I can't have that procedure done, and the finish will remain as it is now.
Noah, my opinion of vintage instruments is just that-an opinion. My "butchered" may just be your "lightly used." To each his own. If you want to know how I rate mine, read the first post of this thread. You'll find a concise statement there.
Furthermore, my posting of other Breadwinners is not a sales "tactic"-as odd as it may seem, I still think that these are some of the cooler vintage instruments around, and I like finding them when they come up. However, at 17, it's not prudent for me to be starting a guitar collection-I don't want to hold onto something that doesn't fit my playing needs, especially when I know that there are others out there who appreciate these instruments more. If another Limited shows up on Gbase or Ebay or God-knows-where-else, I'll post about it because it gives me a certain feeling of satisfaction to have dredged it up. Does it reek somewhat of "well, you could have this guitar, but mine's better so you should buy it?" Yes. But if a Limited in any form comes up on eBay, I want others to know about it, whether it places my guitar in a better light or not. It is by no means a "sales tactic." If someone sees my guitar and likes it, then they'll buy it.
(EDIT)
I called the Mothership today to get a return authorization number-I'm sending it in to let them give it a once-over. Unfortunately, it's the only way I'm going to be able to salvage any sort of credibility with this guitar. I'll have to see what they have to say about it. |
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| Who do I need to call at the Mothership to get a return authorization? I left my number with John, but haven't heard back from him yet. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I have the best luck when I send them an email detailing what my questions/needs are. |
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Location: SoCal | Since they read the OFC postings, maybe you'll get some help tomorrow ;) |
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| The exact text of the email I got from them:
Jeffrey,
The refret and nut are possible, but we cannot reproduce the Barnboard finish.
Contact Customer Service at 860-379-7575 with the model and serial numbers from your
guitar for a return authorization so the instrument can be evaluated at our factory
repair shop.
:confused: |
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Location: SoCal | Jeff,
Email Customer Service or respond to the eMail they sent you and request an RMA.
This is the information they ask me for:
Model:
Color:
Serial Number:
Factory Case y/n:
Your shipping addy:
Your contact phone #: |
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| Thanks!
It'll be nice to get the ball rolling on this again. |
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Let's try this again.