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Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ok..
As most of you know, I know little to nothing about Ovation Acoustics. I know my Adamas, and my Pacemaker 12, and my 50+ solid bodies.
I was asked today "so what's a new USA Made 12 string cost" and so much for being able to find an answer easily. There are guitars on the Ovation Website that do not appear on Musicians Friend and seemingly vice versa and .
Now I could just call Al, but really... this should be easier to figure out. I can't tell which ones are made where either. |
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Location: closely held secret | Around $1700 for a Legend LX 12 string, $2000 for a Custom Elite 12 string. I think those are the only Ovation 12's still made here. Could be wrong. |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Check the price list on the website.
http://www.ovationguitars.com/img/2010PL.pdf
Looks like Legend for 2500 list is the only one and probably not for very long. |
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Posts: 766
Location: New Hampsha | "You know, for the price of a NEW Ovation you could get a used Adamas."
blah blah blah.
I figured that would be said sooner or later. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ok... I checked the price list. The Only item on the pricelist that appears to be made in the USA... IS THE PRICE LIST!!!!
I know you all are model number conscious, but I, and I dare say MOST of the buying public is not.
So... just based on the price list.. no additional information... as example the difference between a Black CC24(P) and a C779LX (C) is about $2,400 ???
Ok.. I happen to know that the Celebrity is an import, but that's about all I know. I guess I should have asked the question better.
"What is the model number of a USA Made deep bowl 12-string?"
I'm going to guess "Standard Elite" which is only available in New England Burst, or Elite T only available in Black?
The just seems harder than it should be. |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Legend 12 string - 6756LX - $1750 |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | 6756LX & 2056LX Legends are the only two USA-made 12-Stringers that I see on that list.
(Also the Adamas 1598 MEII)
In 20/20 Hindsight, I am gonna be Really Greedy when I have to sell my 2058T! :D
"Possibly the LAST 12-String Elite T to leave the New Hartford factory!"
(I had to wait for delivery from CT) |
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Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
John Lennon
Now, while the Olympics show us once again that it's about individual achievement not whose gang is better than whose, the more important question is "Which Ovation is best bang for MY bucks?"
....and the answer is; Ask Bode Miller! |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Miles has a point. The price list no longer makes it very clear what are USA models and what are not. I'm guessing this is not by accident. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Thanks Miles, and everybody else...
My 2058T spends most of it's life in it's case until y'all remind me to play it.
So, Thank You! :cool:
"Miles has a point. The price list no longer makes it very clear what are USA models and what are not. I'm guessing this is not by accident."
And I totally agree. The idea of AX and TX is to hide the fact that they are imports of inferior quality. Just like not including a case is designed to hide another $129 add-on charge. |
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Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
6756LX & 2056LX Legends are the only two USA-made 12-Stringers that I see on that list.
And how do you know this? I'm not being snarky, but is it that you are just familiar with those models, or is there something in the model number that indicates they are made in Hartford ?
I only ask because the person that asked me isn't a complete idiot, and the first thing he's gonna ask me is "how can you tell those are Made in USA models"... As one of the founders of the Ovation FanClub and having been around Ovations since 1975, I thought I could come up with a better answer than "duuuuh becuz"
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with a quality, or import or price or anything issue. It's a nostalgia issue... they want a guitar from the Hartford plant. It really didn't seem that complicated until I actually tried to find one. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I was just going by the 'LX' designation.
Supposedly all the LX models are USA-made, but that could change next week.
The next question is what is the difference between 'LX Bracing' and 'Scalloped X Bracing"?
I believe that the LX models are supposed to have carbon-fiber stabilizers and a dual-action truss rod.
But I don't see a whole lot of difference between the bracing on my 6778LX and my long-gone 2171.
(I do know that my 6778LX is the best $410 that I've spent in a long time!) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
... they want a guitar from the Hartford plant. At NAMM I overheard a KMC employee in the Ovation area giving a talk to some buyers or journalists. I heard him say "The New Hartford plant is buzzing with acttivity these days". He failed to mention that they were busy making Guilds.
So back to Miles point, if a potential buyer is hell bent on getting a USA Ovation, how is he supposed to know what to look for. The website and marketing sources are intentionally deceptive. This is not unique - go to the Mercedes website and try to figure out which ones are not made in Germany. In my opinion the best bet will always be to visit a reputable dealer who can steer you towards the right model.
And of course this forum is chocked full of experts who can (and did) answer the question.
For the record, the correct answer is Legend 12-String (and the Adamas ME 12-string). All Std. Elite 12, Balladeer 12 and EliteT 12 have migrated west. |
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Location: closely held secret | Sounds right (Legend 12). I forgot they dropped the Custom Elite and Custom Legend 12's. There are still some new ones out there, but it looks like they won't be making any more. How sad. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | As of two years ago, the factory was still making 12s by custom orders. Even though the EA Vipers had been discontinued at that time, they made a custom EA Viper 12 for me. I'm still thanking Al for that one. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Yeah, that's another good point. Dispite what the catalog says, at least for now they can still build you almost anything your wallet can tolerate.
But the bottom line is that you shouldn't have to jump through hoops to buy a good quality off the shelf 12-string. Country of origin is becoming far less meanigful to me, as all I really want is the right instrument to fill me needs and I'm less concerned where it comes from. In the 1000-1500 price range you will be hard pressed (IN MY OPINION) to find better 12-strings than Ovation and Takamine, both of which are made in Asia. There may be attributes of USA made 12-strings that are important to you, and if so you will pay significantly more.
As always, the most reliable source of info on what's really available in the roundback variety is Al. |
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Location: NJ | ". . you shouldn't have to jump through hoops to buy a good quality off the shelf 12-string. Country of origin is becoming far less meanigful . . ."
Until something possibly goes awry (structually) with the guitar, and then that $1K-$1.5K guitar gets sh!t-can'd & yer forced t'take a "replacement" (if there IS one) . . . |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Agree Cliff, but that's what you get for that price range.
The reason I say "country of origin is not so important to me" is because of my experience with Takamine. I've bought Takamine guitars that cost many thousands of dollars and it doesn't concern me one iota that they are not made in the US. Why? Because I know I bought very high quality instruments with a company and a dealer that will stand behind them. THAT's the key. If you're going to go shopping the internet for the lowest bottom feeder reverend robert deal, you might as well just put the gun to your head and spin the chamber.
Getting back on topic (sorry Miles). Legend 12 and Melissa 12 are the only USA made Ovation/Adamas 12 strings without going the custom route or finding some NOS at a dealer or in Al's attic. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I get yerPoint.
I'm obviously not in that "calibre" of guitar-buying . .
(Wot th'f@ck ELSE is "new" . .) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Wasn't trying to boast Cliff, just saying that in the big picture (my opinion) there are more important things to consider than where the guitar is made. Guess what? There are absolutely crappy USA made guitars out there. |
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Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Thanks everyone. A useful thread.
Regarding country of origin, not a real issue for me either.. When I'm shopping I start local and compare bang vs buck as I'd like to support those around me if I can. then I broaden my search to "is it made in the USA" for the same reason. I want bang for buck, but I'd like to spend the money in my home country... Then I look elsewhere. Warranty is important to many people. They will even compromise on model, color, brand, to get a good warranty.
For me it depends on what I'm buying. I know a lot of people when they buy a motorcycle they look at the "dealer network." I figure if I "need" a dealer network, I need to be buying another brand.
Anyway.. thanks for the info... |
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Location: NJ | I wasn't seeing it as a "boast" on YourPart.
I was commenting on th'Financial Inadequacy on My Part . . . |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | Country of origin is not an issue by itself. Just because a guitar is made in China does not automatically make it inferior to a US-made guitar. HOWEVER...those of us in the know are aware that there are significant design differences between the two (like the CNC neck and neck-to-body joint). Fact is, if Fender doesn't point this out anywhere, they can sell a lesser product at a lower price...and the average consumer does not know the difference.
THAT'S WHAT SUCKS ABOUT THIS!
John. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | ... which is why you need a good deal that you can ask these kinds of questions... like what exactly IS the difference between a balladeer and a legend. |
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Location: NJ | er.
dealER. |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by cliff:
er.
dealER. See thread title. |
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Location: South of most, North of few | I hate to jump into this a little late, but why on earth would you want to buy a new Ovation when there are so many VERY nice used USA models out there? I realize "the company" needs to sell new ones, but, you could conceivably buy a used unit, send it to the MS to have it completely refurbished, and have less in it than a new one with the plus of having a better (vintage aged top) instrument. |
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Location: closely held secret | Ah, Jim... have you read this thread? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Yeah TJ...
And remember that thread that told us that it was our Patriotic Duty to buy NEW Ovations?
Even though most of them are made in Asia now. |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | The last few new guitars I have bought have been simply stellar instruments and rival anything ever built. Period. So the contention that a used instrument is a better instrument does not hold water for me. The 2007BCS, the JL3, the OFC 1, the OFC 2, the K1111 RI are all killer guitars and blow away all of my other Ovations ... most of which are considered some of the best guitars ever made. Plus, I have a lifetime warranty on all of them and the satisfaction knowing that I helped support some true American craftsmanship.
To Miles' original ... the line is now blurred. The imports are where all the action will be in the general consumer market. Most people just simply wouldn't know the difference even if you told them. And they wouldn't really care. If you're a real astute and serious buyer, and probably a pretty decent player ... you'll discover a boutique guitar maker in Connecticut who are building build something very special for those who are willing to pay. For me, they are worth it. For most others, not. And Fender knows this so it is the business model. |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Trader Jim:
I hate to jump into this a little late, but why on earth would you want to buy a new Ovation when there are so many VERY nice used USA models out there? Some people prefer new, and there have been some new ones out there in the past few years that the old stuff can't touch.
But everybody has there own likes and dislikes. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | My first new one was the Matrix in 77, but I didn't realize then how close it was to an Applause, but still made in USA.
Second one was after I became obsessed with this board and the people on it, who definitely contributed to that obsession. I decided that I wanted to buy a guitar from Al and there was a small chance to get one of the OFC guitars. So I took the last chance.
The next new one was the K1111 RI, which was just an opportunity for a new guitar at a used price.
The last was the LAV Koa, which I decided to buy after meeting Al. He didn't lay any salestalk on me. I just had to make sure my guitar pimp was normal. Well, he's not, but he's honest. |
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Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | double post
I thought the guitar pimp comment didn't go through the first time, so I hit it twice. |
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Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
so I hit it twice Yepper, Al will cause ya to do that!  |
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October 2008
Posts: 639
Location: NW of Philadelphia | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
... which is why you need a good deal that you can ask these kinds of questions... like what exactly IS the difference between a balladeer and a legend. So... What is the difference between a Balladeer and a Legend?
(Hint: I love my Balladeer 12 string) |
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Idiots Guide To Buying a NEW Ovation