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January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | This ARTICLE in Wired about online communities made me really appreciate what Al and Miles have created and what challenges they (and all of us) face here as the OFC grows.
The main point: Why? Because socializing doesn’t scale. Once a group reaches a certain size, each participant starts to feel anonymous again, and the person they’re following — who once seemed proximal, like a friend — now seems larger than life and remote. “They feel they can’t possibly be the person who’s going to make the useful contribution,” Evans says. So the conversation stops. Evans isn’t alone. I’ve heard this story again and again from those who’ve risen into the lower ranks of microfame. At a few hundred or a few thousand followers, they’re having fun — but any bigger and it falls apart. Social media stops being social. It’s no longer a bantering process of thinking and living out loud. It becomes old-fashioned broadcasting. |
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Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | It's been my observation that, at any particular time, there are only about 150 people who are regular posters. Interestingly, this corresponds to Dunbar's number for the size a social group. |
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February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | My wife and I used to work in Manhattan. Like the internet, when one says "I love this city... I feel at home here", they never mean the WHOLE city. They walk across town to "their building" and it's surrounding neighborhood and THAT is what they feel good about.
Similarly, I'm a pastor at a church that was 35 people strong when I showed up 15 years ago. Now there are 400 people and you can't possibly be friends with everyone. But most folks have a circle of 20 or so others that they feel close to, and these people say "I love this church!"
The other thing is...we didn't show up here because we were followers of Al or Miles; the guitars were the magnet. I am not personally interested in MOST of the threads that are started here. I am interested in some. I have also made several pilgrimages to the factory (at a cost of at least $500 per trip) as a result of being here. These have been among the most enjoyable times I've ever had. Some people, while they have not met MOST of the members, have made friends they will keep for a lifetime.
I am part of other sites where, though I am really interested in the product, the chemistry just doesn't happen like it does here. I don't quite know why that is, but something WORKS here unlike most other sites of this type. I feel like the latest challenge to our future is the seemingly complete indifference toward us on the part of Fender... though we're still close with the folks at the factory. Time will tell.
In the meantime, I'm betting we continue to be OK.
John <>{ |
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Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | I've found one thing that always brings people together is sharing a particular hardship or persecution. Perhaps one of the things that "works" with this group is the continuing criticism by many ignorant people of the great guitars that we've justifiably grown to love and appreciate. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | So the obvious evolution is to grow to a critical mass and either explode/implode or redefine yourself.
I think we have successfully redefined while saving the parts we like the best.
Serious questions from both experienced and Newbies have a place to go!
Not so serious OTs still have a stage, just not the main one.
Way OT and special interests can initiate whatever they want over at the social site!
I can still populate my personalized web Page with stuff about me, pictures of me, opinions by me, projects by me, more me, me, me...
And yes, being the under dog, persecuted, cousin that never gets invited can make us stronger.
And the flipside of that is that if you mess with just one of the Trailer tenants, you get to deal with the whole Trailer Park!
:eek: |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | It's a good article, and I think I can address the success and the "what's different" about the Ovation Fan Club.
The Ovation Fan Club was NEVER intended to be a social network, and in fact it really isn't. However, there is a social aspect to it. The focus has always been, or at least always steered toward "Ovation Guitars and the people who play them." We tolerate other music related discussion, and we are working toward the original model of where even the "banter" was relevant to guitars and music mostly. Sure, other stuff pops in, we leave it alone for the most part only because enough people said that "in the process of finding the information they were looking for, they were entertained. "
That (finding of information and then being entertained) is really the key and what we strive to maintain. Most people found this site while looking for information. No matter how entertaining, if they didn't find what they were looking for, they would NOT stick around. Having too many "off topic" posts, starts to dilute the search to where people are finding this site that are searching for something completely unrelated. That's bad. That's the beginning of the end. It's different if you are selling something. Then you want everyone to get to your site no matter what they search on. Here we want people who are interested in Ovation guitars.
A social network is at it's essence a group of like minded people who share common interests.
That is a powerful statement because while almost all of us share the interest of Ovation Guitars, I dare say few of us are "like minded."
There are several social networks (like minded groups) amongst us, but the Ovation FanClub is an informational site. Many of the social groups use this site as a social network... I wish they didn't, but as long as it doesn't affect people searching and FINDING what they are looking for, well as stated above... those other posts are what make it interesting.
I think that's what makes the Ovation FanClub different. We've (all of us who post) have created an informational website, and through that and the common interest of Ovation Guitars, have expanded our personal social networks, and unlike many other sites, we've allowed it to happen that way, and nurtured it to some extent.
That was the reason the Ovation FanClub Social Network was created. I realize it's not for everyone, it's not intended to be. But there are many there who feel the same about the forums, and do not post here at all, never even registered here. They were looking for a social network, and found it.
Anyway.. that is a good article. One of the better I have read on the topic, however it was written by someone whom I get the impression thinks that all forums, blogs and web2.0 are social networks... and they are not.
There are information websites and sales/marketing sites and social networks which can be either of the above.
You can think of the differences as the difference between the Electric Guitarist, Acoustic Guitarist and Musician. A musician (social network) will argue that there isn't much difference between a person who plays an electric guitar and one who plays an acoustic, while the electric and acoustic guitar players have almost nothing in common in their minds. And just as a gotcha... your response or thoughts to that statement indicates weather you are a musician or a guitarist.
For that don't understand the difference between a musician and a guitarist, I apologize for wasting your time :( I maybe should have opened with that if you can't clearly define the difference between a musician and a guitarist, you'll likely not understand the difference between a social network and an informational forum.... but my compliments to you for being a musician. I envy you. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | Nobody believes that I could spend so much time on a site looking for information. Any fan club has to have a certain amount of social networking in order to promote whatever the club is a fan of. While we might have initially signed up to find information about Ovation guitars, there is a lot of other information here, most of it at least music related, that keeps it interesting.
I just finished building a cajon. Like most people I didn't know what that was a little while ago. When someone asks why I would do that, I'd have to say I learned about them here, happened to have an extra piece of oak plywood, and put those two together. Without the OFC that plywood might have made a really heavy birdhouse or bookshelf. |
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Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | When I first got back to playing guitar, I had an Applause, and really didn't know anything about guitars but wanted to get a "real" Ovation. I found one on Ebay. It said Ovation on the headstock, but was a Celeb which I found out later (through this site) was an import. I then moved on to quite a few "real" Ovations and learned a lot about construction, theory of design, and mechanics of guitars, all because of the people on this site. I can honestly say, I've learned 95% of what I know about guitars here. You can't put a price on that. Add in all the great friends I've met here and that makes me feel at home here more than any other site I haunt. Kudos to Al and Miles for keeping the family together. I believe it will survive in spite of the little setbacks here and there. |
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Joined:
July 2004
Posts: 766
Location: New Hampsha | Originally posted by bauerhillboy:
I have also made several pilgrimages to the factory (at a cost of at least $500 per trip) as a result of being here.
John <>{ What I want to know is - how are you getting away so cheap?????
:D |
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May 2006
Posts: 4236
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Originally posted by Trader Jim:
I then moved on to quite a few "real" Ovations... Gets my vote for understatement of the year....  |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "Any fan club has to have a certain amount of social networking in order to promote whatever the club is a fan of"
Ya know.. that's a really good point. The reality is that the name "Ovation FanClub" is a matter of bad grammer based on the intent. It should probably have just been www.OvationFans.com but then again, without the "club" we probably wouldn't be where we are today.... (not sure if that's good or bad) :)
There was the HamerFanClub we were inspired by, so we just followed the naming convention. If I were to do it over, I would have not done that.... but then again.. that might have been a mistake. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I came here seeking information while I was buying a Korean Balladeer.
I had been reminded of hearing an Ovation guitar way back in my youth, and decided that I wanted one.
The OFC has taught me much about guitars, and caused me to search-out more information.
If not for the OFC I don't believe that I would have bought sixty guitars and sold at least forty since 2006.
I also would not have had the knowledge to diagnose and repair some guitar problems.
Occasionally somebody will come here searching for info and I will actually get to share that knowledge.
Even it it is only to tell them "Welcome... Smarter people will be along shortly." :cool:
But if people did not come here to socialize and laugh, those people seeking information would have to wait much longer to get their questions answered.
I might add that I asked questions about my 4861 at other forums before I found the OFC...
I am Still Waiting for answers on those forums. :p |
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Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 1851
Location: Newington, CT | I was introduced to Ovations by one of the finest guitarists in the world (Frank Varela)...NEARLY unknown, except for locally...Certainly way less known than his huge talent deserves. Then, looking all over for Ovation lore, of course, one of the very FIRST sites I found was the OFC. Surprisingly there are not a lot of well-done Ovation-focused sites out there!
I hung around for the full-spectrum experience that the OFC was. And, further on down the road, I understand that this "full-spectrum" experience was counter ot the intent of the OFC's founders. I just didn't know it at the time.
Yes, it was a technical resource second to none, but it was also a club that reinforced the OTHER parts of the guitar experience as well: The sheer joy of playing an instrument, especially the guitar; the feeling of accomplishment at improving; the exhilaration of gigging; the challenge of producing recordings. And more.
All the encouragement (as well as HEAPS of salutary humility-inducing teasing) is what made me stay.
Yes, the various resonances of different tone woods is important; yes, it's good to understand bracings, but you have to be able to play a D-Chord in a certain context to bring that to life! There ARE at least two parts to being a guitarist: After you've made/obtained the perfect guitar, or a great guitar, you then have to, as Beal says, "play it!"
JMHO, but the whole of the OFC is greater than the sum of its "club" and "technical resource" parts. Again, I know that's counter to "OFC Original Intent," but, then, what enterprise of this scale, involving this many peopple, over this length of time, EVER takes EXACTLY the shape the founders intend for it?
There simply comes a point at which it escapes the control of the founders and takes on the shape given to it by the many participants. |
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Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| This site has way to many characters to ever suffer the typical boredom other sites face, and the information is always good. As for population density or maximum optimum size for a web site. Al and Miles built a Forum that was based on the shared interests and admiration of a guitar manufacturing company that was a "family business" to begin with... and a company that was not typical in any way. The site is as interesting and atypical as the guitars we all love.
Nothing that typically plagues these other sites will apply in here. The people who like these guitars are as unique, interesting, intelligent, well designed and good looking as the guitars they often speak of.
So, for me, I think this site will continue to be the same long after the rest are lost in the sea of traditional form they and the guitars they speak of are lost in.
Ya gotta admit even the bad stuff is interesting and if we all were brainwashed what would the point of coming here be? |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by AlanM:
All the encouragement (as well as HEAPS of salutary humility-inducing teasing) is what made me stay. Bravo Alan.
That nailed it for me also. |
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Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | When I joined I owned only owned one Ovation which I had purchased at a pawn shop. I knew of no other place to go to learn more about Ovation guitars and their origins.(since most guitar shops proved to be worthless with respect to Ovations) I had purchased "the Book" and learned of the history there, but I wanted to know more. This forum opened my eyes up to the extensive Ovation/Adamas guitar choices available, and encouraged me (tempted me?) to pursue the aquisition of more. The more I read comments about how good different models sounded and played, the more I wanted to experience playing those other guitars. That lead to the purchase of three Adamas guitars and -to my recollection- about twenty other Ovation guitars, and an ever-growing education of guitars and music. I am also very appreciative for the opportunity to meet and interact with Ovation owners around the world. There is absolutely no way I would have ever even considered or imagined owning that many guitars BEFORE I came to this site. Today I have no regrets, aside from not being here earlier. As far as I'm concerned, this place has proven to be the best promoter of Ovation guitars anywhere, and I am honored to be able to be tapped into it. A HUGE thanks again not only to founders of the site but to all you members who participate here. |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by bvince:
A HUGE thanks again not only to founders of the site but to all you members who participate here. The data brought me here; the folk keeps me here!  |
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Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4236
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | Originally posted by 2ifbyC:
...the folk keeps me here!
(I'm in an instigatin' type of mood today.  ) |
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January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | The data brought me here; the folk keeps me here! I second THAT emotion! |
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Joined:
June 2005
Posts: 497
Location: California | "I have found important information on this blog what I was looking for. No matter what the future will be, the OFC offers access to useful topics that are are valuable to any guitarist. I got great guitars through this forum and I play them as much as I can, specially during weekends! While continue promoting these great guitars it will be nice to have the capability for members to have a short recording link of your guitar sound as part of text signature (sort of a play,pause, button) with a short recording. I think, new technology will offer other options to make blogs more fun evey time. Thanks to the developers of this forum for keeping up with it and to the experts that post the good info.
Hector |
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Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Hi Hector, that feature is (kind of) available at the OFC Ning site There is also a link at the top of each page here.
(The Ovation FanClub(tm) Social Network)
(well, you'll have to find your own recording program, but you'll be able to post it there. If you find a feature like built in instant recording anywhere on the web, let us know. I'm sure some folks here would be intrigued. )
That site was set up (if I can presume to read Miles' mind......) to replace or supplement some of the socializing that goes on here. It has so far had limited success but the features allow; easier upload of pics, audio, video, blogs, and micro-groups within this large tent are a great adjunct that the oldsters here are just beginning to appreciate.....I think. JSFM ;) |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | You hit it fillhixx... (scary place in my head isn't it?)
This site is a forum, well actually a bulletin board, not a blog. I wish more people would use the blog capabilities on the social network site as there are some folks with not only the gift of knowledge, but the gift or communication/writing skills as well. Perfect for a blog environment.
And yes, uploading music to your social network page is the way to do it. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | In my opinion...
I wish the social site was used more.
It has potential. Especially for MP3's and videos.
Technically speaking... the thread about Mikes surgery should be there. But it's not that big a deal unless the percentage similar threads reaches some yet unknown quantity.
Just like, technically speaking, the Welcome Center should be for moderators only. The idea being to get a question answered and then move the new member over to the main forum ASAP. But again, it's nice that the membership cares.
Just my 2 cents. |
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Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Ooooh, Bradley... I love it when you speak technically... |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Fluctuating rheostat
Neuro-symbiotic flux syndrome
di-electric trans-warp string theory |
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Joined:
November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | Originally posted by Slipkid:
Fluctuating rheostat
Neuro-symbiotic flux syndrome
di-electric trans-warp string theory Umm, when you put it that way, I'll stay around. |
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The Future of the OFC?