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Location: 6 String Ranch | I have no connection to this but it's good to see somebody ask what these things should be worth. |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | What? |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Josh White at Dream Guitars |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by bauerhillboy:
What? Josh White at Dream Guitars... |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | wish it were more original....the bridge in particular (or at least a replica replacement)...but it is nice to see it up there with all the high $ gits...'bought time |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Dream Guitars also has a signed ADII for sale in the preowned section. Two Ovations at Dream Guitars.... the end is near.
Al Pettiway playing the ADii |
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Location: South of most, North of few | Something's wrong with the Josh, they put a 7 in front of the price for some reason. Maybe that's how many they have. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Maybe the Price Police should call Dream Guitars and set them straight that Josh's personal guitar with label hand signed by JR isn't worth what they are asking. |
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Location: South of most, North of few | Good idea :rolleyes: |
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| I am not in the market right now for a $7M+ guitar, but thanks for the video. Who were the other 2 in the video? I looked at the end, but it was not obvious to me from the short clip. |
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Location: SoCal | That's an old Josh White neck put on a newer (late 70's-mid 80's) body. It's a 2 piece top with an overlaid rosette. And what they termed a "repair" is just the non-skid knee area. As somebody correctly pointed out, it's not the original bridge.
But that neck and label inside are both from about 1966-7. Look how short the truss rod cover is. TJ's right. Knock off the 7 and it would be closer to the correct price. The neck alone is very very cool. Buy the guitar for a more reasonable price and send it to the factory to have one of the JW reissue bodies put on it and you'd have one helluva guitar....... |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
newer (late 70's-mid 80's) body. Whew... I thought that the orig was a shiny bowl, but had my doubts after this thread. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Dup... |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Paul;
How do you know the body was changed? I thought soneone in one thread stated that the original shiny back had been sprayed with bowl paint at some point. |
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Location: Indiana | To my eye, I see an inlaid rosette and a shiny bowl in the video.
My 2 cents... |
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Location: SoCal | Wayne,
It might have been sprayed, but why would somebody do that? Also, the rosette is an overlaid rosette and the top is a 2 piece top, not a 3 piece. The bridge is a later bridge as well. All of these say that the body was built at least after 1970, and the sprayed knee area would mean after the mid 1970's, when they stopped using the rubber knee pad (doesn't that sound cheezy or what?)
But the neck is definitely old and based on the size of the truss rod cover, I'd say it was a 1966 model. The label reinforces that. But I don't think the label and body were built at the same time.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so..... |
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Location: South of most, North of few | I don't think so either Paul |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | My '68 Josh has a two piece top but a '66 probably would have the three piece. |
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Location: Indiana | What do you think?
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Location: SoCal | I think that's not the same guitar they are selling. Maybe it is the same neck..... |
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Location: Route 66, just east of the Cadillac Ranch | I talked to the lady that owns the guitar and based on our conversation, I'm confident the guitar belonged to Josh White. The owner's family were close friends of Josh's and she has the provenance to support that. I'm of the opinion that the top is original as the three cracks visible on the bass side of the soundhole can be seen in the video on youtube. The jury is still out on exactly what alterations or changes were made to the guitar AFTER it left Josh's hands, i.e. rosette, bridge, bowl, etc. I think the owner has receipts that could answer some if not all of those questions. BTW, the owner is very nice and I'm sure would attempt answer any questions. You can get in touch with her through dreamguitars.com. |
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Location: Indiana | Just to be clear, I wasn't implying anything sinister. I have a couple of guitars with new bowls/tops and transferred labels. So I assumed that was what had happened here. I guess the bowl could have been sprayed. Be interesting to see if there was an inlayed rosette under the stick on... Weren't there issues with the early inlaid rosettes lifting? |
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Location: SoCal | Jm, I've got three Ovations with older necks on newer bodies. Nick, regardless of what was said, I'd be willing to bet that that's not the body that came with that neck..... |
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Location: Route 66, just east of the Cadillac Ranch | Originally posted by Jonmark Stone:
Be interesting to see if there was an inlayed rosette under the stick on... Weren't there issues with the early inlaid rosettes lifting? I had the exact same thought. At the time, the owner wasn't able to tell me why or exactly when the rosette was replaced. |
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Location: Route 66, just east of the Cadillac Ranch | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Nick, regardless of what was said, I'd be willing to bet that that's not the body that came with that neck..... You're a LOT more experienced than I am in this arena and you very well may be right, however I'd be a coke that the top is original. I can see the 3 cracks in the youtube video and the owner says she has a VHS tape that with better resolution. I would say take it to PBS's "History Detectives," but they've already done one Josh White guitar. :) |
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Location: SoCal | Nick, I'd go as high as a caffine free diet coke, but no higher. I've seen some weird stuff pertaining to Ovation repairs over the years. But all the signs point to what what I've postulated. But w/o seeing the guitar and the lady's receipts in person, it's all just a guess..... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Nick and I talked about this. I think he's in a good place about it. |
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Location: SoCal | It's good to be in a good place.... |
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| This guitar was offered on eBay for a couple of days in 1999, but pulled when the owner was informed that the top and bridge were not original. Another individual who is a prominient member of the OFC was also in contact with the owner at that time.
The owner told me that he was from a family that was close to Josh's family, and that the guitar had been in storage since Josh's death in 1969.
I was in the area and was allowed the privilege of inspecting and playing the guitar for over an hour, and I still have the pictures that I took of the guitar.
At that that time, the inlay from the third fret was missing, as well as two or three screws from the tuners. There was a crack in the back of the guitar and excess adhesive in the neck joint area, indicating that the neck had been removed. The neck, tuners, label and case were original.
The bridge was obviously replaced, and it is not consistent with the winged bridge that would have been standard issue in 1969. However, the bridge on this guitar is unique in that the slots are different than anything available on a production guitar. Thus, the bridge could have been an experimental prototype of the bridge that did not appear for a couple of years after Josh's death, and could have been the bridge on the guitar at the time of his death.
With regard to the originality of the top and bowl, the top is not original, but the bowl could be. The textured finish on the guitar in 1999 was primitive in comparison to factory production guitars, and probably was textured before his death. (It should be noted that textured finishes were available on Ovations prior to Josh's death, as well as the stick-on rosette that became standard issue almost one year before Josh's death.)
The present description states that the guitar was "restored" by the Ovation factory. That being the case, the bowl could have been resprayed since I observed the guitar. And, the sprayed-on knee slip pad was probably added during that restoration, as I don't recall that being there in 1999.
The three "cracks" in the top above the soundhole are not cracks. Rather, it was explained to me that they are grooves that were made in the wood from Josh's fingernails, due to his playing style. When I inspected the guitar in 1999 the grooves were under the finish, which would lend credence to the possibility of the top having been refinished shortly before his death. If, indeed, the guitar had been in storage since his death, it is impractical to believe that the top would have been refinshed subsequently.
Having thoroughly inspected the guitar for over an hour before it was "restored", my personal opinion is that the guitar, with perhaps a few minor modifications, is in the same shape it was in when Josh died. According to various statements in print, Josh frequented the factory, and the guitar was probably refurbished, repaired and refinished on more than one occasion.
Unless someone from the factory who personally worked on the guitar in 1968-69 has an accurate recollection of the work that was done, and when, we will never know exactly what happened and when. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | THAT was cool. |
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Location: Route 66, just east of the Cadillac Ranch | Originally posted by bobfrith:
With regard to the originality of the top and bowl, the top is not original...
The three "cracks" in the top above the soundhole are not cracks. Rather, it was explained to me that they are grooves that were made in the wood from Josh's fingernails, due to his playing style. When I inspected the guitar in 1999 the grooves were under the finish, which would lend credence to the possibility of the top having been refinished shortly before his death. If, indeed, the guitar had been in storage since his death, it is impractical to believe that the top would have been refinshed subsequently. This is a bit confusing. You say the top is not original, but later you say that it has the grooves caused by his playing style. Can you clarify that?
BTW, this is all very intersting!
Nick |
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Location: SoCal | Bob, I'd be interested in seeing those pictures. Somebody who's seen and examined the guitar would have greater insight than me.
I still stand by my observations that the neck is very old (1966?) and the body isn't (or at least looks like it's not). The finish on the bowls in the 1970's (I had a 1972 Artist) was very different from what it became 10 years later. And I don't understand why a shiny bowl would be sprayed with texture (hey, my kids insist that I don't understand much at all). Lots of questions... |
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Location: Indiana | CSI - New Hartford
Thanks Bob. |
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| Stating that the top is not original, refers to the fact that when Ovation guitar, serial # 291, was originally produced at the factory, circa 1966, it did not have the top that the guitar presently has.
This guitar could possibly be the same guitar pictured in the "History of the Ovation Guitar" book, being distinctive because of the snowflake inlays. If so, it is obviously not the same top. And, in all probability, the original top would have been three-piece.
In my opinion, the top was probably replaced before Josh White's death, which would mean that the guitar was, indeed, "Josh White's guitar", but having been modified since its' original release.
With regard to pictures, I am not at the computer that has those pictures saved, but will probably be able to post them some time next week. I believe that there may be a picture that would show the textured bowl, although the pictures are not as clear as one would desire, as they predate digital photos, and are scans from positives.
It is clear, though, from the photos that are presently posted on the dealer's website, that the bowl is hand-laid, as evidenced by the photo of the label.
The dealer states that the guitar has been "restored". However, from an Ovation aficionado's viewpoint, the ideal "restoration" of the guitar would have been to restore the shiny bowl. But, due to the crack in the bowl, it was probably textured in an effort to conceal the repair. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I have photos of this guitar, either from the first ebay auction or maybe ones that Bob sent me (Bob, we used to converse regularly about pre-70's ovations, that was fun). I'll dig them up. They on some stone age back up from my pre-enlightenment years. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | 
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Location: Route 66, just east of the Cadillac Ranch | Josh's guitar is serial number 291 and Dave's is serial number 247. It's interesting to me that Josh didn't get the first one off the line. Is it possible this isn't the first "Josh White" model that Josh White had? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | It's definitely not the first one he had. His first one had the zig-zag rosette like the classicals. |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | The top had to have been put on during Josh's time because you can see those three top lines/cracks in the Nobody Knows video on Youtube.
It's a pretty cool instrument dispite the repairs. |
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Location: Indiana | I'd still like to have a peek under that stick on. :)
Wayne's right though, very cool instrument. Love the way they executed the nut on those early ones. |
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Josh White at Dream Guitars