|
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 27
Location: Mid-Atlantic | I really dig Ovation guitars. Always have. I sure wish I was in the buying mode for these right now cuz it looks like some can picked up for a song. Even on trade-ins, dealers don't want them. We are talking about pristine condition USA made Ovations. I know the economy has been down but I know of no other guitar brand that has such a huge disparity between used and new. This cannot be a good sign for the company either. A couple of questions.
1. What would be an expected price range on a used custom legend in near mint condition?
2. same question for an Elite LX?
3. How can the brand keep going if Ovation still wants $1700 and up for these guitars new right now?
Man I wish I had some cash right now, cuz I would buy about 2 or 3 USA Ovations used. I have noticed that some of the used custom or signature models are being sold for relatively high sums. But no one is buying them. Other guitars are down too as with the economy but nothing like this. Its as if the brand it being treated like a cheap import. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | It is the Economy. It ain't just Ovations. You can buy used anything for cheap right now.
Just do a quick evilBay search for Taylors or Martins...
I mean do a 'Completed' listing search, not what they are asking.
It is still a buyers market out there for used guitars.
Rich people can still go in to buy a new Ovation Legend and negotiate that $1699 down.
And on any trade-in you are the one going begging.
Unless you came in looking to buy an expensive guitar, the seller has no motivation to give you a fair price. You came to Him! He has Guitars.
Sure the company is 'stable'... It is owned by Fender! :D |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 27
Location: Mid-Atlantic | Old Man, I'm going to have to beg to differ a bit. I live on the edge of a rural area where there is still big city influence (about 100 miles from both baltimore and dc).
For example what I am seeing are gibson SGs and Les Paul studios still bringing in a grand used. Same as they were 3 or 4 years ago. I deal with many music stores and they have been very fair in taking late model usa fenders, gibsons, and even a Dan Armstrong Ampeg guitar I had for trades on relatively higher end stringed instruments. You are right in thinking that most of em have us by the shorts for trades (yet not all), Im thinking of two stores in my head right now that I have learned never to deal with cuz they want 30 cents on the dollar as trade for your gear then sell it at max buck. Hey I know how thats how they make money. But Carpenters music is Hagerstown and K&B in martinsburg did me good on my trades and new prices of their stuff is exactly the same as musicians friend or music123 etc. if that's a plug then so be it. they are fair people as opposed to Bills Music House in Catonsville MD. wont budge for a customer.
But back to the good and fair dealers I use - both shook their heads ruefully when I tried to introduce an ovation into deals. One of them is an authorized ovation dealer. The other said he has had em, but has not sold an ovation in years.
While its a buyers market for sure, people are not getting squat for their lyracord wonders while the rest of the brands still at least move. On the othe hand, I have also noticed on ebay that few people will get off many of the ovations unless they get near new prices. the auctions die out. I want another custom legend (had one in the past). I am trying to sell my Elite 1868LX shallow (as near to mint as can be). Nobody touched over 10 days auction asking $865. I need bass gear rite now too, main reason I am selling. We will see if I can get $765 for it. just relisted.
And yes while I shamelessly passing the word along about my guitar for sale, I'm mitigating the shame by seriously seeking someone elses used custom legend for sale. Of the two guitars, I love them both, its just that the legend has some sentimental influence on me. long lusty tales of long ago. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Welcome to the club...You answered your questions in the first paragraph...whatever you can get...research it and good luck with it.
BTW: Some Food for Thought
Kicking a Yellow Jacket hive only disrupts and disturbs the Yellow Jackets...they live there; they are not happy at the intrusion and disrespect (lyrachord wonders); they will rebuild it; BUT you will definitely get stung: Big Time!
Just trying to be helpful...it's a sensitive bunch here :rolleyes: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 27
Location: Mid-Atlantic | thank you for the welcome. lost you with kicking the hive..... did I kick anybody's hive?
checked for politeness and fair discussion.. I curious, fill me in. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | And: it's the Economy!!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 27
Location: Mid-Atlantic | you may have misuderstood. - I AM an OVATION person. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | ASG: just a note to help you...yes, you were/are polite and fair...but it's been discussed many times and many are very sensitive as this is read by many, many folks: "if you get my meaning, if you get my drift"
As for the hive part, that may come...
Welcome...just put yourself in many of the members places: everyone is concerned but treading on eggshells is a tough gig...so you might want to avoid the doom and gloom as many workers read this as well...Seriously! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Hey alienstarguest,
Well if you read the welcome page, you pretty much just summed it up. Even in their heyday, Ovation's never garnered the respect they deserved. I think if you look closely at places like eBay for "completed" auctions, the prices for the same guitar are all over the map. New ones sell, old ones sell, and while they don't sell as many new ones as they used to, they don't make as many either, so it's all good. Supply and demand. With Fender now behind them, I doubt they are going away any time soon. Just not quite the time for re-birth yet. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | you may have misuderstood. - I AM an OVATION person. I understand that and so are we all...
Miles put it very well!
We are all hoping for things to turn around...I personally think it's starting to get better... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 27
Location: Mid-Atlantic | also FYI. I survived many months out of work buying and selling music gear. Just finished reading the SOUL OF TONE which might be my 30th book on gear. Not flying any flags except that I have focused on such things as the topic we are discussing. As a freelance dealer I came close to brokering a deal on a 54 strat with a matching fender deluxe all bought at the same dealer in california on the same day, with the original receipt still in existance (same person ofcourse). The freakin case while aged had a newness to it, unreal. My work with the two or three parties fell through and I missed making about 7k commission. Can you imagine this gear!? It was picked up and played once or twice. The amp still has the hang tag on it. Sorry, just a side story I though to be interesting.... and while I usually do ok with my endeavors I can never seem to pop the big one.
Anyway my point is that I have examined this market pretty hard for a long time. And of any known brand, I have to say that Ovations are as dismally stagnant a guitar trade wise, as I have every seen. And again, I love them. I have a very dear place in my heart for them, vowing to get me a custome legend back into the stable. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 27
Location: Mid-Atlantic | oops I did not get a chance to read the other posts before I wrote. But I'm on your side, so it should not matter. And if I have my way I'm going to add to the well being of the company. If this one insurance check comes in I will go down to my dealer and put smiles on both our faces for one off of his wall. then I can buy my used elite lx. come on spring time (a lucky spring me hopes). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747
| Originally posted by MusicMishka:
BTW: Some Food for Thought
Kicking a Yellow Jacket hive only disrupts and disturbs the Yellow Jackets...they live there; they are not happy at the intrusion and disrespect (lyrachord wonders); they will rebuild it; BUT you will definitely get stung: Big Time!
Makes it sound like the yellow jackets are just one step away from a group psychiatric episode. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by alienstarguest:
And if I have my way I'm going to add to the well being of the company. (snip) ... then I can buy my used elite lx. Buying used won't help one bit. You ought to buy a new USA guitar. If you're a fan, you'll keep it forever anyway ... so you don't need to worry about resale value.
Sometimes I get to thinking that a major contributing factor to the low resale value is the behavior of the ardent enthusiasts themselves ... way too many Ovationistas seem to bottom feed and only snag guitars at bargain basement prices. This is really screwing up the classic business/marketing model ... and one that is enjoyed by the likes of Martin, Collings and Taylor. If the real Ovation/Adamas afficiandos were buying new USA guitars, and forking over the bigger bucks that most of them rightfully should be priced at, then the resale used market would follow. But when your loyal target buyer base is only buying Ovations and Adamas' on the used market when they fall to relative chump change, you've got a steep hill to climb.
Oh, yeah. Welcome to our planet ASG. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | The Nice Thing about buying Used Ovations is that you can get a Nice Used Ovation for Cheap.
The Crappy Thing about selling Used Ovations is that you can get a Nice Used Ovation for Cheap!
But y'all knew that... :rolleyes:
I could go into how many people get Celebrity confused with Ovation. And the fact that Most Ovations are made in Korea now does not help the image. People who are not Ovation Aficionados don't know the difference between a 2078LX and a 2778AX and couldn't understand why one costs a Thousand Dollars more than the other.
But you can get a Top Of The Line Ovation for the price of a mediocre Taylor, Larivee, or Martin.
So if you are buying you are happy that there are some good deals out there.
If you are selling, Maybe not so happy.
I don't care about PR... Ovations don't get the respect they deserve and get bad-mouthed on other forums... But nobody has ever come up to me on the street and told my that Ovations Suck. (they may have thought my playing suct) They may play something else, but they always speak fondly of Ovations. :cool:
And Amen to what Joe is about to say next! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747
| Originally posted by stonebobbo:
You ought to buy a new USA guitar. If you're a fan, you'll keep it forever anyway ... so you don't need to worry about resale value.
Why would anyone pay 2,000 for something that's going to be available for 6 to 800 in a year or two whether it's a guitar or a laundry machine - it's not a realistic expectation. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2007
Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | If everyone subscribed to that theory there wouldn't be anything new sold!!
AJ |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747
| Originally posted by AussieJames:
If everyone subscribed to that theory there wouldn't be anything new sold!!
AJ So what ? Who cares..lol
You're not under an obligation to subsidize business corporations - they either sink or swim on their merits. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | by AussieJames:
If everyone subscribed to that theory there wouldn't be anything new sold!!
AJ True, but rich people have always wanted something new.
Whereas poor people knew that a 3 year-old car was a better deal! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747
| Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
... a 3 year-old car was a better deal! Yep, let someone else take the hit on depreciation; buy used and then run it into the ground..lol |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 4413
| The company stable is full of llamas.
But the pretty ones are spoken for. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 27
Location: Mid-Atlantic | Originally posted by Joe Rotax:
Originally posted by stonebobbo:
You ought to buy a new USA guitar. If you're a fan, you'll keep it forever anyway ... so you don't need to worry about resale value.
Why would anyone pay 2,000 for something that's going to be available for 6 to 800 in a year or two whether it's a guitar or a laundry machine - it's not a realistic expectation. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 27
Location: Mid-Atlantic | Why would anyone pay 2,000 for something that's going to be available for 6 to 800 in a year or two whether it's a guitar or a laundry machine - it's not a realistic expectation.
exactly. why am I going to go round looking for the highest price to pay in order to support god knows who. Its just plain foolish if you break your back like I do to earn a few shillings. I'll get a like-new guitar for half of the price of new if I can. Loyalty to the brand does not equate to stupidity. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Ovation guitars are TOOLS. Just like a Stanley hammer or screwdriver. They do a great job for the purpose they were designed. Nothing more, nothing less. You don't buy a screwdriver as an investment, nor would you buy an ovation as an investment. With very few exceptions the value of a new ovation drops significantly over time. So yes, in that regard there is money to be saved in buying used. If you want a used guitar. If you want your guitar to be an "investment" then you need to look at other brands. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | There is a 1116 on ebay right now going for more than it did new. Does this prove anything? No..
As Miles noted the prices can be all over the map. Why folks will not buy an Ovation with "signiture surface cracks" and yet others will shell out tens of thousands for old Martins with cleated body cracks is a mystery to me. Are the new ones worth the money, IMHO yes very much so. Do they hold their value? Only time will tell. Will the company stay in business? If I knew that about any business these days I would be a wealthy man. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by twistedlim:
There is a 1116 on ebay right now going for more than it did new. Does this prove anything? Proves why nobody has bid on it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
Originally posted by twistedlim:
There is a 1116 on ebay right now going for more than it did new. Does this prove anything? Proves why nobody has bid on it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ovation-1116-Classical-Guitar-1970-s-Nylon-Conc... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Was looking at a different 1116 ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/1974-1116-4-Ovation_W0QQitemZ120525210192QQcmdZ... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | ASG I am glad to hear of your enthusiasm and only wish you the best in your pursuit. Glad to see that many have joined the fray now this morning...some great responses. I totally agree with Bobbo: buy a new one, play the heck out of it, and keep it forever! The company will benefit and you will have a wonderful new (ahh, don't you love the smell of a fresh new Ovation/Adamas in the morning) guitar to be proud of...Order something new from the current lineup or design your own custom...contact Al (one of the moderators of the forum) at Lost Art Vintage (look in the links section at the top), give Al a call (he never closes) and you will be treated right! Yes, the new ones are expensive but in my opinion, the quality is as good or better now than at anytime in the company's history...fabulous guitars!
Enjoy! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4233
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | When I win the lottery, or get a job that pays better (read that as not social work), then I'll be on the phone with Al far too often. :rolleyes:
But until then, I'll just let the shark keep lurking in the murky waters of the internet and let him off the leash when there is affordable (by my bank account's definition of course) blood in the water. :cool: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Every year, just before tax time, this conversation comes up. Y'think there's a cycle?
:-) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | I have sold quite a few Ovations, some of them at prices you wouldn't believe. In THIS area, people come in looking for them. When they are not specifically looking for an O, they usually fall in love with them anyway. I think a lot of it has to do with, pardon me, salesmanship. When someone comes in to look, I show them around the store and it becomes obvious very quickly that I really like the O's. I will usually play a little for them so they can hear the projection out front. Then when I put it in their hands and they see how easy to play they are, well, I usually have a sale. Now don't get me wrong, I do that with whatever guitars customers seem interested in. If they can hear it from the audience perspective first, then play it themselves, they get a truer idea of what it is they want. It just happens that they seem to like the Ovations best, and that's after hearing/playing Morgans, Guilds, Taks, Taylors, and whatever else I have on hand at the moment.
Yes, I own quite a few Ovations that I got used, but I DO have a brand new one coming soon! (Now where is that emoticon that shows jumping-up-and-down excitement?) Pretty much all my life, Ovation has been good to me. When I was a little kid, the roof over my head and the food on the table were earned by my father at Kaman Aerospace. Then when I was older, they gave me one of the best jobs in the country. They have kept my ears and fingers happy for years and years, and now they are helping me make a decent living. Respect? I not only respect them, but quite a bit of who I am today, I owe to Ovation. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Hey! I have bought two brand spankin' new Ovations and a brand new Celebrity.
That is more guitars than most (average/normal) people buy in their lifetimes.
I have done my part to support Kaman Instruments. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
That is more guitars than most (average/normal) people buy in their lifetimes.
I've found that average/normal people don't buy guitars |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | Of all my Ovations, I bought 3 new (1773LX Custom, and OFC slothead, and Adamas I 12 string). The rest were used. I have no regrets about spending the money for new Ovations.
When I go into Guitar Centers, I'll see a ton of new Celebs on the wall, occassionally a new USA built Ovation, and sometimes several used O's. The used O's go pretty quickly, and the new O's seem to also go fairly quickly but not as fast as the used.
The Celebs, I can't say because they all look the same to me (sorry Celeb owners -- I just have a bad eye for them). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4075
Location: Utah | Originally posted by Joe Rotax:
Makes it sound like the yellow jackets are just one step away from a group psychiatric episode. Didn't we just have one?
As to resale prices, they are what they are. Intelligent people will look for a good deal, and with Ovation Fans being so smart, the price of used guitars is low. ;)
We have been in a deflationary cycle for a couple of years with respect to luxury items. Face it, any guitar over about $300 is a luxury. None of us non-pro players needs more than one acoustic or one electric guitar. When the economy suffers people tend to choose to postpone or avoid non-essential purchases.
Last fall we looked at the value of our old Chevy van, it was worth the same $4500 as the cash-4-clunkers trade in. We kept it, and now with only 5000 more miles on it and in the exact same condition as before it is worth $1600. That is a loss of almost 2/3 of it's value for no good reason other than deflation.
I acquired a used fine European car this winter for less than 20% of it's original selling price, significantly less than I paid for the PT Cruiser in 2004! Deflation was my friend on this one. Nobody wants to even look at the price of a used German luxury car, so the prices plummet.
Buying a used Ovation was my entree into buying new. There's nothing wrong with buying used, imo. It may help the seller fund a new guitar, and/or it may spur the buyer into eventually buying new. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | The economy sucks so there will be a price disparity.
As to finding out the worth of a guitar, make an ebay auction with a ridiculously high reserve, and you'll have your answer.
As to the prices ovation is charging, remember it's a range, the bottom is about 299, with steps every 100 dollars or so. I don't find them strange.
As to buying some gits now, if I had the extra cash I'd do the same thing. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | My Mom cannot understand how I can be happy when I sell a guitar for what I paid for it...
I point-out that guitars are one of few things that you can buy, play for months or a year, and then sell it for equal or more than you paid for it.
You cannot generally do that with a car, or anything else.
In Americans' greedy little minds they somehow think that they should be able to sell an Ovation for the $1799 MSRP when they didn't pay that much for it themselves.
I am surrounded by a coupla thousand dollars worth of guitars that I have accumulated...
If I make any profit on a sale I am ecstatic.
I didn't buy them to sell, I bought them to play.
So now, if I can pay rent with them after I have played with them for a year, I should be Happy!
(right? :( ) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1455
Location: Texas | It seems logical that a brand-new Ovation with a lifetime warranty costs more than a used one with the inevitable wear & tear and no warranty, doesn't it?
The only way that used ones might rapidly increase in value is if FMC stops making them. Do any of us really want that to happen?
I'll repeat my mantra; New or Used, dollar for dollar, you cannot buy a better acoustic guitar than an Ovation. That is true for appearance, quality, versatility, durability, playability AND most importantly, sound. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2010
Posts: 15
| Originally posted by stonebobbo:
If the real Ovation/Adamas afficiandos were buying new USA guitars, and forking over the bigger bucks that most of them rightfully should be priced at, then the resale used market would follow. But when your loyal target buyer base is only buying Ovations and Adamas' on the used market when they fall to relative chump change, you've got a steep hill to climb. I've got to say, I like that there's at least one member who looks to pay top dollar for his gear, and never looks for a bargain. I normally don't have the budget to pay for what any gear is "rightfully priced at," and so I let the market decide the price, and then pay it if I can afford it and if it's worth it to me. That's how I own four Rainsongs for less than the price of a new one at retail.
Good on you, Stonebobbo.
Just out of curiosity, did you always pay more than street price for all your new Ovation and Adamas guitars?
That's dedication! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by standing:
I'll repeat my mantra; New or Used, dollar for dollar, you cannot buy a better acoustic guitar than an Ovation. That is true for appearance, quality, versatility, durability, playability AND most importantly, sound. So true! I don't own stock in Kaman or Fender, so I don't feel obligated to buy new.
The whole idea is to buy a guitar that sounds like it cost many thousands of dollars, but doesn't.
I can go into Apple Music in Portland and look at that old Gibson acoustic there for $13,996...
And right across the aisle is that Adamas two-knobber for $1400 that I can't afford :mad:
Which sounds better may be subjective, but which is a better deal is Obvious! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2009
Posts: 43
| There seem to be 2 issues here.If getting a good deal on a used O because you enjoy the hobby or you want to start your own little collection,the time is great.My local Guitar Center has a white Legend (Kinda rare color)hardly played,from the 80's.Asking 450,with the case.Could be had for 400 I'll bet.If you have the money,a good find in my view, if it has not been taken apart or messed with.
If on the other hand you want a top of the line guitar to really play and as an investment,the LX is the cats ass.Cough up the 1200 bucks,take care of it,and sell it 20 years from now at the same price.
See the trend here?These guitars are selling today at their original prices. Very few guitars follow that trend.
Buy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by Nubilee:
Originally posted by stonebobbo:
If the real Ovation/Adamas afficiandos were buying new USA guitars, and forking over the bigger bucks that most of them rightfully should be priced at, then the resale used market would follow. But when your loyal target buyer base is only buying Ovations and Adamas' on the used market when they fall to relative chump change, you've got a steep hill to climb. I've got to say, I like that there's at least one member who looks to pay top dollar for his gear, and never looks for a bargain. I normally don't have the budget to pay for what any gear is "rightfully priced at," and so I let the market decide the price, and then pay it if I can afford it and if it's worth it to me. That's how I own four Rainsongs for less than the price of a new one at retail.
Good on you, Stonebobbo.
Just out of curiosity, did you always pay more than street price for all your new Ovation and Adamas guitars?
That's dedication!
MODERATORS: I need to ask a question ... with our new push to be more welcoming to the new visitors to the site, would it be inappropriate for me to tell this particular newbie to take his four-for-the-price-of-one Rainsongs and shove them up his ass? I'm just asking ... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Dance like nobody's watching
Sing like nobody's listening
post like nobody really cares
you'll seldom be wrong.
Legit question though stonebob.....
....I'm just sayin' ;-) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2010
Posts: 15
| Originally posted by stonebobbo:
Originally posted by Nubilee:
Originally posted by stonebobbo:
If the real Ovation/Adamas afficiandos were buying new USA guitars, and forking over the bigger bucks that most of them rightfully should be priced at, then the resale used market would follow. But when your loyal target buyer base is only buying Ovations and Adamas' on the used market when they fall to relative chump change, you've got a steep hill to climb. I've got to say, I like that there's at least one member who looks to pay top dollar for his gear, and never looks for a bargain. I normally don't have the budget to pay for what any gear is "rightfully priced at," and so I let the market decide the price, and then pay it if I can afford it and if it's worth it to me. That's how I own four Rainsongs for less than the price of a new one at retail.
Good on you, Stonebobbo.
Just out of curiosity, did you always pay more than street price for all your new Ovation and Adamas guitars?
That's dedication!
MODERATORS: I need to ask a question ... with our new push to be more welcoming to the new visitors to the site, would it be inappropriate for me to tell this particular newbie to take his four-for-the-price-of-one Rainsongs and shove them up his ass? I'm just asking ...
Now, as someone who is being fairly hypocritical in your behaviour, you can suggest anything you'd like, and I'll take it just as seriously as your previous suggestion. However, if you don't like your words suggesting that you are "stupid or a fool" (your words), then the problem isn't with the one who notices what is said, but with the person making such statements in the first place.
Oddly, I didn't even need to use profanity to make my point. Neat, huh? (Sorry to tweak your nose after that, but since you can dish it out, I'm sure you can take it, right? *chuckle*)
Cheers! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | nubilee
we do not tolerate personal attacks here.
I know Bobbo and you are so wrong.
this is now closed |
|
| |
How long has the value of Ovations been this depressed and is the company stable.