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Location: Phoenix AZ | A question for Mike and the other Adamas experts out there ... actually no right/wrong answer just looking for opinions.
I go back and forth between Slothead #42 and the OFC/47RI guitar over and over again. And any way you slice it, #42 is just a better sounding guitar in every regard. And I've played 6-8 of the original slotheads and EVERY one of them has been better than ANY of the dozen of so OFC/47RI guitars that I've tried.
So my question is this (I know, there's no real answer) ... how much has 35 years of aging done to #42? Will the OFC/47RI guitars sound this much better in 35 years or is there really something structural, or even fairy dust involved with the originals? I've never subscribed to the notion that adamas tops "open up" over time, but who really knows?
Or are my ears/eyes/senses totally fooling me and I just THINK #42 is better because, well because it IS an original and I did pay a shit pot of money for it?
Not sure I can wait 35 years to find out about the OFC/47RI, and WOW what might a 70 year old original sound like? Hope I live that long. Anyway, just curious to see what Mike and some of the other Adamas experts have to say about this ... |
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Location: NJ | I've been fortunate enough to be be playing #54 since 1977
(". . Ladies & Gentlemen, th'Bronx is Burning. . ").
I didn't OWN it that entire time, but even when I didn't, I had been playing on a pretty consistent basis (I even did the StringChanges, as the owner found it t'be a bit of a "pain").
That being said, I can't percieve any "appreciable" difference in th'Sound between Then & Now.
I attribute the sound as a culmination of a "Damn th'Torpedoes" attitude in Materials & Craftsmanship, and a true sense of "Passion" t'build something truly unique. In essence, it was an exTREMEly efficient "SoundEngine".
Call it "FairyDust", or what-have-you, but I honestly believe (and there are ThoseHere who will vehemently disagree), that the unique sound of this finite number of guitars stems from a considerable amount of "FM". |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I spent a few weeks, maybe a month, with Mark's No. 43. He used it on the road as a professional musician for a number of years, so it has thousands of hours of playtime. I A/B'd it against everything I had at the time, including OFC-I No. 5. The thing that struck me most about No. 43 was how it just rang forever. A moderate strum on its open strings could still be heard with an ear up next to the strings maybe 30 to 40 seconds afterwards. This was easily 7 to 10 seconds longer than OFC-I No. 5 and everything else I had. The vibration obviously contributes to tone, and based on this experience, I have to agree with Dave on this. I don't know if it is based on the construction and age of the originals, or the amount of play time on this particular guitar, but the lovely tone of No. 43 was definitely noticeable. I was honored that Mark allowed me to keep it for the short time. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I have not owned an original slothead but I have played 3 or 4 (Beal's 35 @ AI; Cliff's 54, #47 and several others at Tour 07)...along with the incredible vibe the tone of these guitars is incredible...I have been fortunate to own a few of the original early production run Adami: 119, 189, 542, and my early '80's -7 twins...even with 119 (built in January '78) and 189 (built in May '78) there is a huge difference in tone and physical appointments. I had both guitars at the Smokey Jam III this year and everyone was amazed at the difference in sound from these two early examples. 119, which won the sound test hands down, is so much like the original pre-production guitars it's scary: it has that special mojo and bell like tone as well as finish and trim that is over the top in relation to the later Adami even of the same year. My love is the 12 strings: I originally played the early '79 -8 owned by Woz (Tom) at the '07 Tour...it blew me away. I now have a -7 from early '83 that is wonderful and now #542 from late Nov/early Dec '78 that is equally incredible...
I have owned 8 other Adami from the mid 80's to the brand new '07 NAMM Custom, 08C #7 and 47RI #87. While these guitars are great instruments and the 47RI in particular was incredible, ultimately it came down to the consistent combination of tone/vibe/mojo/playability that the older original instruments provide. For me it is what fuels my passion and stimulates my creativity. It just feels, looks, and sounds right. While the newer Adami are wonderful guitars, I particularly like the vintage ones...YMMV; that's what makes the hobby have a future. Will these new guitars be equally as fine in 35 years? I don't know. They are not made quite the same as they were in the late 70's and early 80's...Much of the "Mojo" of what makes the originals so good is a culmination of what Cliff said so well: Passion and Attitude to make something so incredible...I do not know if we will ever see a repeat of this and that fact will keep the originals in a very special place. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I have owned about 15 Adamaii over the years including 3 #47RI's and several other RIs.
Once I got #57 all the others became old news. I A/B'ed them over and over and realized why Cliff has been successful in fighting the GAS urge whenever a new flavor came out. These are simply the best Adamas made and when you own one of the best why do you need to have imitations (regardless of how close they come to the original).
I have since either sold all my Adamaii or am in the process of selling them....the exceptions being the longneck baritone 2080 twins and the OFC2 guitar. These will stay because they are totally unique and different animals. All the rest will soon pass into new hands.
Maybe the 47RI and some of the others will sound just as good or better in 35 years but I will most likely either be dead or unable to play so who cares.....I am gonna enjoy my good fortune and play one that sounds unbelievably great today!
and yes, I also paid a shit pot full of money for mine and it was worth every penny. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | ...and just where would we find these shit pots full of money...? |
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| rainbow's end - but maybe it's a shit-colored rainbow |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Sometimes you gotta look before you flush..... |
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Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | We can all buy one when our stimulus checks come in the mail. |
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Posts: 2791
Location: Atlanta, GA. | Originally posted by G8r:
rainbow's end - but maybe it's a shit-colored rainbow  |
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| Colin - PERFECT! |
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Location: SoCal | It's kinda like a 1537 vs. a 1718. A 1537 is better, hard to know or quantify why..... |
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Location: Colorado | Great thread Dave...even Darren at the factory commented on #43s bimodal wave form...for whatever that is worth. Yes - I think #43 sounds better than it did years ago - yes it had the snot played out of it for over a dozen years - and that was 9 years after it was made. Professor did a nice thread comparing them Dave if you check the archives. For the record I paid $1250.00 for mine! - albeit in 1985. Something about them when you hold them seems softer - and more flexible....the sustain on mine is superb...I find the newer ones wonderful - but somehow tighter in feel and sound...if that makes any sense. A little more jangle in the older ones too. Just tap the face of an old one vs. a new one....more sound - more sustain...kinda like echo in the bathroom - which to most of our ears - sounds better. I updated the electronics years ago in mine - because I feel today's electronics are superior. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Originally posted by cholloway:
Originally posted by G8r:
rainbow's end - but maybe it's a shit-colored rainbow
Vic |
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Posts: 1609
Location: Colorado | Here is Brad's old thread...Dave...even Tupperware had a comment or two...c"mon up and 42, 43, RE#5 and Brad's new toy can all be compared...
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/cgi-bin/ubb/non-cgi/ultimatebb.php?ub... |
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Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | While I think guitars open up over time, as Cliff points out.. it's not like they all start on a level playing field. Will a 47RI sound better in 30 years... likely... will it sound as good as some other guitars... maybe not.
I guess that's why we like Ovations. As much grief as we put up with because they are "plastic" and have "machined parts" each one is unique, but few if any actually suck.
Why does my Medallion sound so good? Why does an Academy sound as good as it does? Why did Al's shallow-bowl 12-String sound so full? Why is Cliff's slothead soooo freakin loud.
Bottom line answer to all of the above and more...
"Because" |
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May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by elginacres:
Here is Brad's old thread... Yes I remember that thread well and its what prompted me to ask the opinion of our resident adamas experts - is it built in, or does it come with age? |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I have no opinion, the experts have spoken |
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Location: South of most, North of few | ...and all the people said,
Amen. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by elginacres:
For the record I paid $1250.00 for mine! - albeit in 1985. Mark, try and keep that in mind when you finally decide to part with yours and we're negotiating a deal. ;) |
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Location: Colorado | In mind sure...in reality...unlikely....though lately moving the decimal point one to the right seems like the starting dollar point. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by elginacres:
In mind sure...in reality...unlikely....though lately moving the decimal point one to the right seems like the starting dollar point. Ding ding ding.....we have a winner!
That DOES appear to be the new starting point. |
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | It's all about Provenance. |
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Location: Tennessee | I'm no eggsbert, but let me say this about that. All the slotheads I've played have been amazing. Some more than others. I like my OFC. I hope in 30 years it has the sound that the originals have today.
Dave, in terms of them opening up or just aging like a fine wine, there is evidence that the fundamental frequency changes over time. #43 was originally -93, and when it got measured at the reunion (2006?) it dropped to -74. #45 also got measured and went from -92 to -78. I wish I knew what the fundamental frequency really means in terms of sound, but I don't. It's a measurement of the cavity so the cavity is changing over time ... but how? SOMEthing(s) change over time. That's all I know. And so I can believe that the other frequencies across the guitar also change over time.
But we know you paid a shit pot of money yours, so maybe that's just it. I've never heard anyone who ever dropped over eight large on a guitar think it was anything other than stellar. Maybe they just all are. |
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Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
[QBIt's a measurement of the cavity so the cavity is changing over time ... but how? [/QB] Aged and 'exercised'(?) bracing?  |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
I've never heard anyone who ever dropped over eight large on a guitar think it was anything other than stellar. Yeah, but some of the $7500. ones are pretty sucky.
Btw, nobody has mentioned that the laser vibrometer also aged 30 years (or has been replaced/updated) and unless calibration curves were run to tare out any offsets the comparisons are meaningless. I know Darren is a good engineer so I'll assume he has done his homework. The current measurement head certainly didn't look 30 years old to me, but who knows. |
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Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
calibration curves were run to tare out any offsets the comparisons are meaningless. I would imagine that that would be a regular scheduled PM checklist item! |
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Adamas - How Much is 35 Years Worth ?