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Location: MA | I bought a 1578 bc guitar from brother bobby and it is a stunner, plays and looks great. All of a sudden a great buzz takes over, so I open the back hole and see a large crack in the bridge plate. Brought it back to my local music shop (they were great even though I didn't buy the guitar from them)and was told that the guitar has a fret problem as well as the crack. Off it goes to Ovation repair. At first they wanted to outright replace the guitar with a standard elite, then they wanted to look at it first Well they have had it for a month now and just called to tell me that they will replace it with , guess what, a standard elite. I said no, I want something better looking. They said that would cost me $560.62 more,basically take the elite and shut up. And they haven't even looked at my ultra yet. This is horrible service. What do you all think? :mad: :mad: |
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Location: Burbank | I think most here would agree the Elite is a better guitar than the Ultra. Isn't the Ultra a ply-top? |
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| First off, welcome. Sorry to hear of your bad experience. There are some things to consider, though. I'm surprised the CT factory even agreed to look at your guitar. The 1578 is a laminate top Korean model (parts are made and finished to the assembly stage, and then shipped to the US for final assembly). The US factory generally do not work on the Pac-Rim models, only on those entirely made in the US. The Pac-Rim warranty is supposed to be honored by the store that sold a particular guitar.
A Standard Elite may not look as pretty, but it is in nearly every respect a superior instrument, from the quality of the SOLID wood spruce top, to the neck construction, grade of fretboard wood, grade of fret material, better tuning machines, and overall more "hand work" than the overseas jobs. They think they're doing you a favor by offering a better guitar than you currently have.
Just something to think about... |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by redliondog:
At first they wanted to outright replace the guitar with a standard elite First of all, welcome aboard!
Actually, I'm impressed with their offer, considering the valid points that Serge highlighted. |
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Location: Vernon CT | First, Welcome from another New Englander!
G8r beat me to it. You are very lucky they even looked at it. To be given a Std Elite to replace what you have/had is more then fair and in my opinion. Better customer service then you would/could ever get or expect from another guitar manufacturer. Considering, from what I'm reading above you bought this guitar "used". You should also be more concerned with better sounding then looking. Ovation Customer Service is well know as the best in the business! Just about every "Active" member here, including me has had some type of interaction with C.S. and have had NOTHING but a positve experience. |
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| I agree with The other replies. They are offering you a better guitar. With my limited knowledge of ovations, I would take the deal in a second. I'd be curious what you would think after playing a standard elite for an hour or two. |
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Location: Michigan | Welcome to to the board! "Take the elite and shut up" is a pretty good option. I would actually take it and run :) . As BT said..especially since it is a used guitar...
Nobody, nowhere would offer you a better deal. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Sounds like you're looking at the wrong end of the stick!
A better brand new model in exchange for a damaged used guitar. ......wonder what I could get for a 30+ year old T-head? |
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Location: Upper Left USA | So you want to turn your 1978 Mustang Coupe to the Factory because of some existing issues and since they don't have the parts, they want to send you a 2008 Mustang Coupe.
But you love your 78 even though it was really a Pinto body with Mustang trim...
Take the 2008 and don't look back.
or
Go knock yourself out and waste a lot of time discussing options with Brother Bobby.
And Merry Christmas! |
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Location: SoCal | What everyone here has said it right on accurate. If you call customer support and get a recording, they will tell you that they don't work on Ultras and Celebrities and that you should take it back where you purchased it.
They are offering you a great deal. If you get the new guitar and don't like it, sell it, and buy the model you do like.
The factory doesn't have to do what they are doing..... |
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Location: Brighty in Blighty | Mate, take the deal!!! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Hey wait a minute ...
The guitar was probably sent to Kaman Service in Bloomfield, which is standard practice for non US Ovations. This would also fit with the offer to exchange a new Std Elite for the defective Ultra (both Korean made). So my guess is that this entire thread is about the "other" Ovation service, not "the" Ovation service. |
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Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | I too have to agree from my positive experiences with the factory. I've had them overhaul two guitars and repair two others at no cost. They have also sent me free parts for a couple old guitars. I have been AMAZED at how much they have done for me, and they have always been courteous and helpful. I think you have read them wrong, and are not seeing that they are truly trying to help you here. If you really set on having an older guitar, or a more attractive one, you may be better off cutting your losses and shopping for a replacement. There are a lot of good deals nowadays. But I can also attest to the fact that their new USA-made guitars are high quality instruments. |
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | "So my guess is that this entire thread is about the "other" Ovation service"
This could really get confusing if he is dealing with someone named Kim. |
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Location: Utah | Redliondog, welcome aboard.
What did Brother Bobby's customer service tell you? They sold the guitar and so they should be the ones to deal with the problems. One of the problems with internet purchases is the long distance nature of returning a defective item. We frequently lament here that our local stores don't carry all the Ovation and Adamas models that we want to try and/or want to buy!
I would be quite surprised if the Ovation factory does not find a way to solve your problems, but be aware that the warranty is different for imported items than for US manufactured guitars. You may not have a legal claim with the factory, only with Brother Bobby. I've read different opinions on his customer service, but some have had very good experiences with him.
Do some research on the model you bought vs what the factory is offering. I'm not familiar with the model you bought, but from what others are saying it seems that the factory is making an interesting offer. |
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Location: MA | The guitar in question has a solid top AA bearclaw spruce an is warrantied( lifetime) by Ovation USA in New Hartford, Ct It was to be "set-up and assembled by USA workers. The elite standard is a no frills entirely made in Korea model although it too has a solid top but no accouterments. The guitar I bought was new in 5/09. |
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Location: Michigan | Regardless of where it was made the web site is pretty clear about warranties:
From the Ovation website FAQ:
"Is my warranty transferable?
No, all KMC Music warranty policies are valid only to the original purchaser with a warranty card on file or a copy of the original sales receipt as proof of purchase."
The fact that they are willing to replace it with anything is above and beyond warranty.
If you are the original purchaser you got a beef, if not... |
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Location: SoCal | Why didn't you go back to Brother Bobby? I can't find anything on the net about the 1578 and nothing on Ovation's website..... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | go give Brother Bobby some headaches |
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Location: MA | I'm the original purchaser and that's why Ovation is trying to deal with me. The guitar was a special model and is registered with Ovation for warranty service. The warranty states that they can replace the guitar with a comparable or better model if the damaged onr is out of stock. I just want a guitar that has at least some of the original visual appeal.I'm not looking for something for nothing. That being said THIS WAS A NEW GUITAR, PAID WITH GOOD US FUNDS. Sorry but people don't read before they reply. Brother Bobby has nothing to do with the service, and I have been dealing with the esteemed Kim Keller. |
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Location: closely held secret | Did this guitar come with the iDea preamp? |
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Location: Michigan | |
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Location: Tennessee | Redlion ... I'm with you on this. The 1578 is indeed a stunning guitar and has more bling appeal than almost any other guitar out there ... the abalone all the way around the top, the nice abalone inlays on the fretboard, the solid bearclaw top ... it all makes for a very nice guitar.
I wouldn't get too upset with KK or the folks at the factory trying to help you ... their hands are probably tied by the suits. I am sure they are doing their best. BUT ... if it was me ... I would stuck to my guns and insist on a guitar that has all of the goodies you originally bought the guitar for. I know your guitar sounds (sounded?) really great, but you bought it for the bling. Make sure you get it replaced with bling.
Just me two cents. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Though it pains me to say this, Moody's dead on. If they're offering you a better model, albeit not the one you'd like, take it, sell it and buy the one you DO want. But, before you do, find a website where everyone is telling you that you're being offered a great deal and moan a little because they're not offering you a lesser deal. That'll do you a lot of good.
Wayne Kerr. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Welcome RLD...
Naw on the iDea, Wabbit...
I believe Brother Bobby's 1578's were from before the iDea.
As to the Standard Elite, You should take it and say "Thank You!"
The 1578 is a solid-top Korean made guitar.
The only final assembly done in the USA was putting the strings on there... Maybe.
It has a Five Year Warranty that you are supposed to get handled by OK Vintage.
(I could ask why you didn't contact them? That is what it sez on the warranty info..)
They don't make Ultra's any longer, and they would not have repaired it anyway.
They just give you another one... Just like all the other crap that is made in Korea!
(It is cheaper to replace it than to fix it, since it was never designed to be repaired)
And for those who don't remember, those were the ones with the Snowflake fret dots.
Abalone Everywhere... They were kinda purdy. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by redliondog:
I'm the original purchaser and that's why Ovation is trying to deal with me. The guitar was a special model and is registered with Ovation for warranty service. The warranty states that they can replace the guitar with a comparable or better model if the damaged onr is out of stock. I just want a guitar that has at least some of the original visual appeal.I'm not looking for something for nothing. That being said THIS WAS A NEW GUITAR, PAID WITH GOOD US FUNDS. Sorry but people don't read before they reply. Brother Bobby has nothing to do with the service, and I have been dealing with the esteemed Kim Keller. Kim, while not being tall, makes up for it by being the most honest, service oriented customer service person you could possibly imagine (well, John's exactly the same). If he can't meet your needs then rest assured that he's doing the best that can be done. If the factory can't replace it, then they can't.
I'd go back to Brother Bobby and see what they can do for you. I've heard a real mixed bag about that place, but it's worth a try.... |
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Location: Upper Left USA | 1578-4BCS
A Solid top and lotsa nice looks.
Brother Bobby playing one with Comments
Maybe the same thing |
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| Well, I was thinking of a different model Ultra. Just looked up Bob playing it on-line. I didn't realize all the bling. Very pretty, indeed! Now, this brings up an interesting general question. If the model isn't available anymore, then which current model elite that they do have is about the same in price? Obviously, this original model was purchased largely based on cosmetics and the standard elite isn't so blingy. How do the retail prices add up? What is the retail of the ultra vs. the standard elite? |
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Location: Vernon CT | Ok, So Brother Bobby is from Ok Vintage Guitar.
NEVER heard of the guy OR the "Shop". Hmmmmm, Would make a lot of sense to run this problem thru/by the Store it was bought from and get them to help with your problem. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I don't think you have a bad Customer Service issue as much as a "Can't replace my great deal on a guitar" issue due to the limitations that CS has in place. Looks like Marketing wrote a check that the Factory can't cash!
The Matrix came in highly affordable due to off shore Labor costs. Repairs are going to cost you in time and not so much materials.
Ask about credit on a Custom Order 1778-4 BCS LX with Abalone trim. It might make the journey worthwhile. |
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Location: Utah | Maybe it's time to look at some $ options. What did you pay for the Ultra (you don't have to answer publicly)?
Now, what is the factory offering? The standard elite is the 6778LX and is an equivalent guitar though not as blingy, but probably a "better" guitar in terms of quality and long term resale (which isn't good for any used guitar). The 2778LX would upgrade to the deep contour bowl but is otherwise a 6778LX.
The AX versions are the foreign made. I wouldn't rush to take one of those, I'd hold out for the USA made LX.
Next, what will Brother Bobby B do for you? He doesn't appear to have any of 1578, at least on his website it doesn't show. He has a FRG 1778LX, which is a 5 year warranty USA made Elite. Not as blingy as your bear claw spruce and abalone, but it is a really great guitar, a step up from the 6778LX in the pecking order and price level.
Finally, you could buy a used 2007 Collector's addition for about $800 or so, depending on the vagaries of eBay and the economy. It is a deep contour bear claw spruce LX guitar. If Brother Bobby will give you a full refund, and if it's in the same ballpark, the 2007 Collector's would be a big step up and you wouldn't be disappointed. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Another option would be to see if anyone here with a 1578bc would be willing to trade for a brand new Std Elite. |
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Location: NJ | most other companies would just say you are SOL
sounds like you got a deal.
btw you buy it from Dealer X and then take it to your local guy to make it better.
real classy |
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Location: MA | Alpep git off your high horse, I deal with the local shop all the time and Ovation will only let you return items through a dealer, for your info my local shop has no love of ovations and wouldn't even accept a trade.They(Ovation) can't say SOL because I have a real claim. The 2778 LX or any LX would cost me an additional $500+. It's an option just shouldn't have to pay to get my guitar replaced. Retail prices are comparable but wouldn't have even considered a standard elite. I don't like painted tops either. |
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Location: NJ | get off my high horse?
fine
get off my message board |
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Location: NJ | get off my high horse?
fine
get off my message board |
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Location: Vernon CT | Originally posted by alpep:
get off my high horse?
fine
get off my message board Ouch, I saw that comming. NOT a good way to start a Membership here. :rolleyes:
I guess it won't be going any further. |
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Location: SoCal | The problem you have, redliondog (?) is that you want this to be fair, ie, you want what you want and nothing else will do. The real world isn't fair and life is usually about making compromises.
It appears you can't have what you want (your warranty doesn't specify an exact replacement for your guitar) and now you're upset over it. Take the best deal you can and live with it. That's life..... |
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Location: Michigan | after hearing your story redliondog i almost bought one of those 1578 quilted models from brotherbobby but because of his arrogance and unwillingness to do anything but talk on the phone with me i passed. he told me that the pictured guitar on his site might not be the one you get.he than informed me that all of the guitar finishes vary quite a bit. i asked him if he would send me a picture of an actuall guitar and he said yes.one week later i called and asked again and he said he was not opening up another guitar to take a picture of it because they were moving and to busy to do that.i thought what an as#%$le i don't buy sight unseen.
he then let me know that he didn't need my business for he would have all of those models sold within a week.there's a classy dealer for you.but that is my opinion of brother bobby.
is it possible that you try and get the factory to give you a credit towards the purchase of another o :confused:
you might of also tried asking some of the people on this board who know some of the ovation people if there was anyway that maybe one of us may have a little influence on the matter? ya just never know but allot of us help each other out around her.
well i would of suggested talkin to alpep but it looks like you already did that and i don't think that you are going to make it on his christmas card list anytime soon.
i do hope it all works out for you.
and also welcome to the club.i think that you are going to be an interesting addition to all of us . ;) GWB |
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Location: Alagoas, Brazil | what does "SOL" mean? thanks. |
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Location: Vernon CT | Originally posted by Miguel - BR:
what does "SOL" mean? thanks. I beleive "Shit out of Luck" |
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by guitarwannabee:
well i would of suggested talkin to alpep but it looks like you already did that and i don't think that you are going to make it on his christmas card list anytime soon.
Al's from Jersey. He was just expressing affection in a manly way. It's what he does. No harm, no foul.
Redlion, this may be what you have to do ... get what you can from the warranty. Sell it and put the cash in your PayPal account and then wait for a 1578 to show up on eBay and buy it. The only thing you can do at this stage is make lemonade. Good luck. There's a lot of folks here pulling for you. |
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| Sorry dude but in reading this you are not willing to listen to anyones advice and you are convinced this is an Ovation Factory problem. You bought a guitar from Brother Bobby then this is the first and best source for your anger or rath concerning its repair. On the other hand if it was used and an "import" then you really do have an arrogant attitude about what the Ovation Factory is supposed to do for you. It sucks when a guitar has been bought and then right after you purchase it it developes a problem with the top.
News Flash, this is common, especially this time of year when the humidity levels drop to horribly low levels and this causes lots of problems for guitarists everywhere. Those of us who live up north (especially) have found ways to keep himidity in the house this time of year or at the very least inside a case. When a top splits it is usuually because of this problem or exposeure to high temps or the quality of the materials used. The American models are often made from wood that is better stored and longer aged and the overseas guitars are just not built like this and that along with cheaper/inexperienced labor they sell these at lower prices.
It seems quite obvious to the rest of us in here that;...You needed to post a dissatisfied message about "BROTHER BOB" instead of "The Factory".
Your argument has large flaws. Sorry but you can be as angry as you wish with me or any of us..... but if your too stuborn to see the truth of it your to dam dumb to have bothered with to begin with.
Take the Elite, or go hassle Brother B. The Factory is being very good to you. |
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Location: Tennessee | Whoa! This sure seems to have gotten a little off base. Let's recap:
Guy buys a new USA Ovation six months ago from an authorized dealer. It's a very special guitar with bearclaw AAA spruce top, abalone purfling all around, abalone inlays, gold tuners, etc. He sends in the warranty card.
The guitar has an issue obviously covered by the warranty. Not repairable. So the factory is going to give him a Korean-made "standard" guitar with no bling and a lower graded top. A guitar he never would have bought if given the choice originally.
If you were the guy, would YOU think this was fair?
We all love the folks at the factory. But c'mon. How would YOU feel if you were in redlion's shoes? I'd be upset too.
I don't understand why everyone is pissing all over redlion. |
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Location: Dallas, GA | I whole-heartely agree with Stonebobbo....if this is indeed how it has gone down. I would be pretty upset too. |
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Location: SoCal | Give this guy a break.
Al talked about Ultras in the LAV July '07 Newsletter. Ovation Marketing presented the Ultras as "sub-assemblies crafted at Ovation’s offshore factory...shipped to Ovation’s New Hartford, CT workshop, where their team of skilled craftsmen carries out final assembly and set-up. The result – a professional level instrument with the feel and playability of an upscale USA-made Ovation guitar."
Welcome redliondog!
That 1578-4BC is a lot of bling for the buck (this photo is from an eBay listing I found).
The price paid for the guitar is immaterial.
Bling should be accounted for in, "replacement with comparable or better".
If that's the way the warranty is written, then the Manufacturer set the expectation.
If my Mill-CB had to be replaced under warranty, I'd be pissed if the replacement was a W597-CB.
Great Customer Service directed by piss-poor Company Policy, equals frustrated customers and employees. |
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Location: NJ | ultra's were discontinued almost 2 years ago. they were made in korea set up in the us.
they can only offer a replacement of what is available.
If brother bobby has any in stock he should replace it and return the guitar to his rep for credit. that would make it an easy fix.
what gets me is that he holds the Rev blameless and instead of going back to him for satisfaction drags the local dealer into it.
Now here is where it gets sketchy for me and I think this whole thing may be made up.
The local DEALER does NOT like OVATIONS or wants them in trade......then is WHY IS HE A DEALER?????
sometimes I think the trolls just make this stuff up to get us going |
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Location: NJ | just as I suspected
IP address does not match MA |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by alpep:
sometimes I think the trolls just make this stuff up to get us going Well there is that.
And I still think bearclaw looks like stretch marks.... |
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Location: Michigan | I agree with Al. Service is what you expect from a dealer. I would be a bit PO'd also but you are taking it to the wrong folks. Slamming Kim or Al or anyone, including your dealer in an on line forum will certainly not help getting your situation resolved. I hope you get this works out in the end for ya. |
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Location: Colorado | Thanks for that visual Moody. |
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Location: SoCal | If she's book-matched properly, the stretch marks can provide just as much character as any other figured wood :p |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Todd G.:
Thanks for that visual Moody. No sweat. I live to serve and disgust..... |
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Location: closely held secret | ...and you're doing a fine job. |
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Location: Brisbane Australia | In my experience the first port of call should be the selling dealer!!
It is the dealer's responsibility to look after his customers and keep them happy.
He should be the one directing the traffic!!
AJ |
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Location: closely held secret | Good plan, AJ, but there's one flaw.
It only works with dealers who still give a rip once they've got your money. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
And I still think bearclaw looks like stretch marks.... That was one of my first thoughts when I got my 07C.
And like was said... That 1578 may be a Really Purdy Import, but it is still an import.
Here is an interesting dilemma...
I have my T-12, 2058T... I bought it new, I am the original owner.
They don't make these any longer, what happens if it suddenly self-destruckts! :mad: :eek: :confused: |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by PsychoBunny:
Good plan, AJ, but there's one flaw.
It only works with dealers who still give a rip once they've got your money. how about that.
and I don't know how many e mails calls etc I get about instruments purchased away from me and can you give me YOUR expert opinion on what I should do and who I should ask for etc etc etc...... |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | OMA wrote: They don't make these any longer, what happens if it suddenly self-destruckts! Memory |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Tough situation here. Not sure there can be a win-win outcome, but it has to start with the dealer who made the original sale, likely a full refund or at least a credit towards another purchase. Its then up to the dealer to make peace with the factory. I don't know how this works, but Brother Bobby seems to represent himself as being a heavy hitter with Ovation and ought to have some influence in representing the interests of his customer. I can't believe any successful business can remain afloat very long if they blow off customers.
On the other hand, if it was me, and I just had to have this guitar, I would ask Brother Bobby to negotiate a repair with the factory (we know the factory can pretty much rebuild just about anything), then I would negotiate with the good Brother as to whose responsibility it is to pay the cost of the repair, which ultimately might have to be split three ways. Again, tough situation. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Yes, tough situation. And things like this don't get resolved via message boards. Hopefully the buyer and the dealer can work it out. |
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Location: Right now? | Brother Bobby < 
No, thank you!
I wouldn't do business with that guy if he offered something to me for FREE.
:(
Willa |
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Location: Reisterstown, Maryland | I still can't past the the bearclaw stretch marks. Ug
Anita |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by PsychoBunny:
Good plan, AJ, but there's one flaw.
It only works with dealers who still give a rip once they've got your money. Exactly right.
Choose your dealer accordingly. |
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bad customer service from ovation