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Location: Bellingham, WA, USA | Hi all, I've been taking lessons for just over a year now from a local musician that also teaches. I was wondering if I could hear from other people that have been taking lessons for a while because after a year I really only know basic chords and maybe a scale, other than that I can play parts of songs but that's about it. If someone is a complete beginner to music is there any hope for one day understanding guitar and how to write songs? Every time I go to my lesson he just says so what do you want to do today? I have said before well what should we do and we've messed around with like guitar slides and other stuff but he always asks me what we're going to do and well if I dont really have any knowledge of anything shouldn't he be guiding me? I've been starting to wonder if people that take lessons just learn to become hacks or something and just end up playing other peoples songs. I mean how much can one really progress anyway by only spending 30 minutes a week with an instructor who is just there to make money. Maybe I should be looking for another instructor or take lessons from a different instructor later on in the week or something, I just dont feel like I'm learning a whole lot other than just play these notes or these chords with this strum pattern for this song... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | www.workshoplive.com |
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Location: Utica, NY | I does not seem to me as though you are getting your moneys worth. It's evident in your level of frustration and I believe that your gut is right. Just because someone can play does not mean they can teach. It seems to me that if I were to ever take lessons I would look for a plan or actual course of action. Like anything this complicated it seems to me that one would start with book one, work through a progressive, sensible and comprehensive series of lessons that keep building on your knowledge base. I played trumpet from the time I was six or seven and played through high school and I know how long it took to work through lesson plans and advance to the next level. But that's the kind of planning I believe it takes. I took piano lessons from an older woman who had done it for years and while it was demanding and at times boring I knew it was the right thing to do. Had she been asking me every week what I wanted to do I'd be asking for things that I would have no functional foundation to even be able to do. I also took guitar lessons a few years back but they didn't work so well for me either. Lots of scales but that didn't hold my interest very long.
If there are other options I'd be interviewing some other instructors. It sounds like you have nothing to lose. Good luck. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | +1
I had exactly the same experience with a couple of teachers. I really got nowhere. Workshoplive let's you do a deep dive on pretty much whatever it is that you want to learn.
That being said, I would still like to find the right teacher and I think that the only way to do that is try them out. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Time for a change. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Pretty good discussion HERE plus my take on your situation. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Anyone who knows more than three chords and has been paid to play in public is certainly qualified to teach an instrument.......
Or maybe not.
I had several different teachers over the years. The third one was the real inspiration but the circumstance was very unique.
In the end it's not the teachers fault the student stays when they are not learning, it is the students for not searching out a better solution. (this applies to other areas in life also, near as I can tell.) |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by mercury187:
I mean how much can one really progress anyway by only spending 30 minutes a week with an instructor who is just there to make money. I'll tell you this right now. You need to take responsibility for your own obvious failings and stop projecting your excuses and lack of commitment onto people who are charging very reasonable money to help you. Attending lessons are meaningless unless you actually do the work. Playing any musical instrument well takes more than buying a bunch of lessons, it's a passion, an obsession, a way of life that informs everything you do and who you are. Godd luck with that..................... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | but shouldn't the teacher "inspire" him or "excite" him with new possibilities? |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by stephent28:
but shouldn't the teacher "inspire" him or "excite" him with new possibilities? Probably, but as an ex-pro teacher I have lost count of the students that could not be inspired. For every shit teacher there are several dozen shit students. Not saying that this is the case here, just telling it how it is, from someone who has the T-shirt |
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Location: Bellingham, WA, USA | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Originally posted by mercury187:
I mean how much can one really progress anyway by only spending 30 minutes a week with an instructor who is just there to make money. I'll tell you this right now. You need to take responsibility for your own obvious failings and stop projecting your excuses and lack of commitment onto people who are charging very reasonable money to help you. Attending lessons are meaningless unless you actually do the work. Playing any musical instrument well takes more than buying a bunch of lessons, it's a passion, an obsession, a way of life that informs everything you do and who you are. Godd luck with that.....................
Its not that im a shit student with a lack of willingness to play, I'm just saying how do you get past just learning how to play famous songs.. |
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Location: NW Washington State | I'm not one to take lessons, but if I were in your situation I'd look into teachers- even music students- who might be available at WWU . Maybe you can find someone who knows theory as well as popular songs and riffs.
-Steve W. |
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Location: Bellingham, WA, USA | Thanks numbfingers, where are you in WA? |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Sounds like we may have another member of The Northwest Chapter.
Welcome Merc!
I'm over in Yakima. I have not taken lessons (sadly, and it shows), so I can offer no counsel.
But, as for neurolinguistic programming, well...... |
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Location: NW Washington State | Do you offer Guitar Gestalt Therapy?
I'm hiding on an island an hour or so from Bellingham. WWU seems like a good resource- looks like the head of the music department is a guitarist. Call him or send an email- can't hurt to ask...
-Steve W. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by mercury187:
...because after a year I really only know basic chords and maybe a scale, other than that I can play parts of songs but that's about it. Gee, I can do all that and I have never had a lesson in my Life!
Not to be rude, but if you are not getting anything outta your lessons you need to quit paying for lessons. You need to develop a science of practice that works for you, and then learn new skills.
But you need to have dedication to that practice regimen.
Understand that famous musicians practice Hours Every Day!
I get all kinds of information off of YouTube and some books and DVD's that I have bought. But I have books and DVD's and stuff that I have never read. They look good on the shelf and I have lent them out to other people.
My problem is that I have No Structure or Discipline in my program.
If that is Your problem also, you cannot blame this on your Teacher.
But if you are paying to go pick some licks with some dude for a half-hour, I'd save my money.
If you are going to go hang-out at the University, I would just go find some other musicians to hang-out with! That might be more productive for you.
I am still a total beginner also, so I might not be the one to give advice...
But that has never stopped me Before! :p :cool: |
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Location: Ohio | I started taking guitar lessons about 4 years ago at age 54. I already read music as I had taken piano lessons at a very early age and played woodwinds in the school band. I decided to take lessons because I had to retire due to serious illness yet I wanted to keep growing. I went through about 3 teachers until I found one whom I respected for her playing and we got along fine. We agreed on short-term and long-term goals and took time every six months to see where we were making and missing our goals. I stopped taking lessons last summer and I now get help when ever I need it from friends who are professional guitar players. So far, I geel like I am doing the right thing. I have spent the money I have saved from lessons on upgrading my equipment and I enjoy playing much more now. I also have decided that electric guitars are much easier to play with weak body and hand strength. I will admit that there are a few acoustics that I probably will not part with as they make beautiful music.
Good luck, Joe |
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Location: Omaha, NE | My $0.02...
You're getting the worst of both worlds right now: Paying for individual lessons, but still having to self-direct your efforts.
Your instructor should be the one helping you put together a roadmap for how you get from here to there. Of course, its up to you to decide what "there" looks like.
What do you want to be able to play? Have you shared that with your instructor? If so, then move on. If not, try it. Put together a collection of youtube links of songs you want to be able to play and email them to him. Tell him you want to put together a plan for getting there.
From that point, you'll have the ability to evaluate if he is helping you or not. Even if you end up deciding he's the wrong guy for you, your plan will still help, either with another guy of taking online lessons. |
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Location: Bellingham, WA, USA | Thanks for your comments everyone. I did tell him early on I would like to more understand the guitar and not just play other peoples songs and ive given him lots of songs to show me how to play. I know a lot of people have others that they know that play but I just dont have that many friends and the only person I know that plays is my cousin which is many miles away... I think im going to try and catch up with my old instructor who has been teaching a lot longer then the one I am with now and explain to him what ive been up to the last year and whatnot.. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Merc, I'd be shopping for another teacher. I think a good teacher should be like a consultant. They should prompt you to sort out what it is you want to learn, then work out a pathway to get there. For example, if you said I want to be able to play Tears in Heaven like Eric Clapton, a good teacher would assess what you can already do and work out a plan to get there. From what you have described, that plan would likely take a number of years, but would still be doable if you are prepared to do the work.
Everybody has a different reason for playing and a good teacher should be able to work with most students. If someone doesn't want to do the practice then they won't achieve with the world's best teacher, but I'm sure a good teacher can help someone structure their practice better. I've never had lessons in guitar, but have had very helpful tips from other players. I'm sure a structured plan from a good teacher would help me. |
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Location: Huntington Beach | I am teaching my 10 year old nephew to play. I tried teaching him when he was 3 but he had no interest. He has good rhythm and a good ear but does not yet understand the commitment it takes to learn a skill. He gets excited about the sound and the accomplishment of playing the right notes - yet he complains about his fingers hurting and how hard it is to play guitar.
In todays lesson I told him - when he was frustrated hitting the right notes - the most important instrument he has is his ears. If you know the melody and what you're playing doesn't sound right - move your fingers and find the right note. 99% is you. The lesson can only point you in the right direction, the basics and technique. To master any skill is a combination of natural aptitude, dedication and training. If you don't have a good ear and reasonable manual dexterity then give it up now. If you do - then only effort and discipline will bring success. |
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Location: Alagoas, Brazil | How much do you practice every day?
Do you seek new things (songs, scales, arpeggios, licks) by yourself or you wait for the teacher to get something new?
What are the questions you asked your teacher recently? Did he answer them?
Learning is a two-way process.
Miguel |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | It's been an interesting road for me. Yes I took lessons for about a year as a child, around 10 years old. All the usual learning the fretboard, etc. But since then it's been a life long of picking up bits and pieces here and there from others I watch or play with. Problem is (and I think this is common) that I have 35 years of these bits and pieces all sitting in the parts bin with nothing "assembled", if you know what I mean. Basically I (think) I have some raw material and capability, but just can't seem to tie the knots to gether in to anything cohesive.
So ... at least for me the best thing is to have a fixed goal that forces me to "work under pressure". If it's an upcoming open mike, jam session or something like that. Small gig, CD project, etc. Basially anything that puts your feet to the fire. Others have said this to me as well, they never knoew what they could do until forced to do it. I guess the old saying is true, the best way to learn how to sky dive is to jump out of the plane.
Good luck |
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Location: south east Michigan | Well said Dave.
We have walked very similar paths. |
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Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | There are a LOT of people out there who want to play guitar. Some want instant results (most of us would like that) but are inpatient and unwilling to devote themselves at a serious level. I believe that is why a lot of instructors teach their students how to play pieces from other performers for inspiration. Then there are the ones who are really into learning theory and technique (classical guitarists are a good example of this) The former is the reason someone came up with the ever-popular Guitar Hero thing. I grew up poor, loved music(especially guitar) but didn't have the opportunity or money for guitar lessons or a guitar, so I taught myself. Yeah ... I'm not the greatest guitar player, and I wish I would have been able to take lessons (still wish I had the time), but I can hold my own in a sit down jam and have an extreme amount of fun playing. That gives me plenty of satisfaction for now. I HAVE purchased a very nice video instruction series that starts at the basics, and progresses to intermediate level playing techniques. One goal this year for me is to work my way through that. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | "Basically I (think) I have some raw material and capability, but just can't seem to tie the knots together into anything cohesive."
Incredible. My existence in a thimble. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Ditto. I'm in that same thimble, except I never had a lesson and took the middle 25 years off. I'm pretty satisfied playing other people's songs for the most part. Then I listened to Bobbo on the OFC cd this morning and started thinking that I really need lessons to force me to learn enough theory that I could either write my own stuff or at least improvise. I need some pressure.
I don't think I've ever practiced as much as I do just before and after a gathering, just to avoid embarassment. We need more of those in the Northwest. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Joe Camel:
I went through about 3 teachers until I found one whom I respected for her playing and we got along fine. We agreed on short-term and long-term goals and took time every six months to see where we were making and missing our goals. That's the way to do it, if ya can!
'Half-filled Thimble' Iffy |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | The mystery secret to mastery?
10,000 hours! |
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Location: Utah | It will be interesting to hear Canterbury Strings' reply, being that she is a guitar teacher.
I used to teach people to fly airplanes for a living, both little airplanes and turbine powered airliners. It got too scary, but that's another story.
My experience is that the chemistry between student and teacher is important, just as important as any other factor. Your teacher has to understand your desires and goals, and he/she has to have the tools to put together a program that matches those desires and goals. Finally, the student has to put forth adequate effort to be prepared for each lesson.
Do you and the teacher get along? If you don't like each other, lessons aren't going to work out no matter how great a guitarist he/she is and no matter how dedicated you are.
Does your teacher know how to teach? Does he/she put together a big-picture syllabus as well as individual lesson plans? It doesn't sound like it. The teacher should make it clear what the big plan is, such as "we're going to work our way through this book, and we're going to also learn songs that apply what's in that book". Or, "We're going to work on basic theory, learn a bunch of chords, and master a bazillion different scales". Or, "We're going to learn and jam to a bunch of different songs so that you can be the life of the party, though we aren't going to learn much theory".
Each lesson should have a understood lesson plan. You are going to review last week's learning (maybe play that scale you were given last week), then you'll review some new stuff, and then maybe you'll jam for ten minutes (there should be some reason to jam, not just kill time).
While the teacher may not provide a specific written plan to you, it should be understood by both of you what your goals are, and how the lessons move you in that direction.
You have to practice what is taught in a productive way. I found that some students were very motivated, while others expected that simply showing up was enough.
In my opinion, you should have a talk with your instructor about your dissatisfaction with the lessons. Perhaps he/she just doesn't understand what you want out of the lessons. Maybe the talk will result in a better plan and more focus on your interests. Perhaps he/she just isn't the right match for you and you need a different instructor. |
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| Originally posted by mercury187:
... after a year I really only know basic chords and maybe a scale, other than that I can play parts of songs but that's about it.
...any hope for one day understanding guitar and how to write songs?
...I just dont feel like I'm learning a whole lot other than just play these notes or these chords with this strum pattern for this song... After playing for a year you should be well past the awkwardness of physically handling the instrument and in a position to learn on your own by practicing endlessly, trying different arrangements and making stuff up using what you know.
Inspiration has to come from you - relying on someone else to inspire you doesn't go far.
Actual song writing with lyrics and such is contingent upon have something to say in the first place so that can be a major stumbling block for people no matter how many years they have played or taken lessons.
You either have something to say or you don't but, if not, you can still work up your own instrumental arrangements using the skills that you have - that can be quite enjoyable and easier insofar as you don't have to slave over trying to copy what someone else has done.
I took lessons for about 3 months when in grade five - the only thing I got from it was a dislike of sunburst finishes because there was a picture of one on the cover of the song book that we used.
Not long after the lessons ended someone showed me how to play house of the rising sun and with the chords and picking from that song I kinda learned how a song fits together. I was able to branch out from there and eventually get to the point where I could learn from a recording or make up my own stuff.
In high school I showed a few chords and songs to a friend who was at the beginner level with guitar and he ended up as professional musician, released a few records which weren't that great IMO but one of his songs (26 Cents) was nominated for a Grammy. Obviously all that had nothing to do with me - all I did was show him a few chords which he would have learned somewhere anyway but the point is that I know for sure that he couldn't play for beans in HS and that he made a career w/out ever taking formal lessons.
Similarly, another friend from HS; he didn't play anything at all and then bought a Dobro when he was about 18. Within a year he was learning stuff off records pretty good and went on the road with a band after HS called Reverend Ken and The Lost Followers...lol
So the ball is very much in your own court. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Well, I can tell right away that your teacher has a problem. If he or she doesn't ask you to play last week's lesson so they can see if you're doing it right, they either don't care or are not capable.
I DO ask my students what they want to do this week. You can teach guitar skills using just about any song. If a song is too complex for their level, I simple it down for them. They are more likely to practice if they like what they are working on. I also try to give them something new with each lesson. I mean, yeah, I could just teach them a bunch of songs, and then all they would know is that bunch of songs. So if someone asks to learn a new song that contains chords and patterns they already know, I might change the key so they get practice using "unfamiliar" chords. If their strumming is already good, it's time to start fingerpicking.
But it sounds to me that you want to start writing. For that you either need a good ear or theory or both. Plus some imagination. Rather than trying to think of a song you want to learn, maybe next lesson you could go in with a chord progression you found. Then tell your teacher you need help finding a bridge. Your teacher SHOULD show you the theory behind "what goes together well". Then they should suggest possibilities. (There will be more than one.) If they can't do that, well...
There is a good website that can help you with theory. There are a lot of them out there but this is my favorite. Just google the word stonedragon. Then click on the free lessons. They have guitar lessons for absolute beginners, all they way up to theory for advanced players. You'll get some good information to work with.
And last but definitely not least, EXPERIMENT. Try to pick out a melody on one string. After you've found it and you know it's right, try to find a harmony on the next string. Then add a third harmony. By now you have a chord for each melody note. Now see if you can keep adding harmonies to complete the chord. (HINT-this seems to be easier to do in the keys of G or A.)
Oh, and for practice, ten or fifteen minutes at a time, several times a day is a lot better than once a day for two hours straight. You DO need to play EVERY SINGLE DAY though. And if you ever have questions that your teacher can't or won't answer, get in touch with me by PM. I'd be more than glad to help. |
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| Mercury, I've been taking lessons for close to three years now.
My experience has been that it is a very slow process for someone like myself, who does this strictly part-time after having a full time job and other commitments.
It has also been going slow because I haven't put the time into it that I should. Like Alison said, I have found out that I need to do this every day. And I have developed a new attitude about it also. Work in = progress.
It sounds like your teacher may be experiencing burnout. It happens. Also, some people are great musicians, but lousy teachers. Like the others have said, you need to talk to your teacher.
Good luck with your teacher -- and stick to learning guitar!
Michelle |
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Location: Flahdaw | I have never had a lesson. The easiest way for me to lose interest in something is someone telling me how to do it. I don't want to learn how to read music, any more than I want to know what makes the sky blue. I just want appreciate both. I'll never be a great player, but I sure like playing. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Alison has highlighted the difference twix a teacher/instructor vs. an educator!  |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | dark bar is an EXCELLENT guitarist. (Check him out on youtube.) He taught himself to play using the "experiment" method. And when you learn that way, it may take a little longer, but you really KNOW the stuff you've learned. Not only that, but you find all kinds of other interesting things along the way that you can apply later. |
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| Youtube search revealed the following inter alia..lol
"Sorry for the Bad Quality, it was in a dark bar."
"Im sorry there's a dark bar across the screen and sorry for the clicky noises."
"Sorry for the dark bar that enters the screen every now and then, I dont know how to stop it." |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | That's the Bob we've come to know and... ummm... tolerate! |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Try typing in darkbarguitar. |
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| Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
Try typing in darkbarguitar. Yeah, that works, thanks.
Actually, first search I did was "youtube darkbar guitar" and I got a collection of links to videos that were too dark to see because they'd been recorded in a dark bar..lol |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | If I was to grade the Quality of Response , .. the one from CanterburyStrings deserves an .. A + .. for I remember the strife and havoc that I`ve found myself in ( still find myself in at times ) , that was Solid Advice , and a Great Offer :)
Vic |
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questions for those who have taken guitar lessons