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Location: Phoenix AZ | Check this out ...
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Location: Tennessee | Yellow journalism, I tell 'ya ... |
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Location: Vernon CT | Hey Tupperware,
Did R.T. do something to you as a child? :D |
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Location: enid, ok | I take it that the viagra commercials will be involved in a seperate lawsuit. |
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Location: NJ | only if they can "get up" the legal fees . . . |
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Location: ms | OK AL give him a month off......for being a trouble maker. Tupp is like one of those people that talk bad about gay people then wind up being gay, not that theres anything wrong with that. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Hey, I'm just reporting what I read in the newspaper. I'm just the messenger.
Dave |
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Location: Nashville TN. | it does sum it up
overpriced and underperform. |
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Location: SoCal | We got a guy at church that wants to join the band and he plays Taylors. Think it would un-Christian-like of me to show him this? |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Think it would un-Christian-like of me to show him this? I think it should be mandatory. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | That newspaper needs a new proofreader. Where do I apply for the job? |
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Location: closely held secret | Whoa, whoa, whoa... Just a minute there.
Are you a member of Proofreaders Unanimous? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Is that some sort of laber onion? |
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Location: Vernon CT | Mark,
That was so funy it made me cry!! The Onion that is. :D |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
We got a guy at church that wants to join the band and he plays Taylors. Think it would un-Christian-like of me to show him this? Paul, I wouldn't do it. But you SHOULD tell him that every member of the band has to have a stage name, and his is "D-Cubed".
Dave |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Is that some sort of laber onion? We tried to join the brotherhood of leeks but they filed a stinking lawsuit and we lost on a peel. |
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Location: Vernon CT | Your killing me with this humor!!! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | You should have turned the page over... it get's better!
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Location: SoCal | Mr. Prepak? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | That was Al's predecessor. |
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Location: Simpsonville, SC | Ddd..aaammmn Woody, LMAO!
Fan of Mr. Big |
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Location: Upper Left USA | And why would they spell his name correctly in his five minutes of fame? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | We might as well go the whole nine yards. I found this in some members gallery. Geez.
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Al , this is going too far...
Vic |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Hey, that's not my picture. I found it in somebody else's member gallery !
Dave |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Funny though..... |
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Location: Tennessee | Think there's a thread on this over at AGF yet? |
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Location: The State of Hockey | Dave, what are you trying to tell us? |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Open Invitation: To any OFC member: Any day, Any Month, Any Time: come and play one of mine: I dare ya!
1998 615 custombuilt w/Brazilian Rosewood
1998 W-65: Highly figured Claro Walnut,Back,top,sides
2006 810 Fall Limited: Madagasgar Rosewood
This is such BS: you have not played or heard what a Taylor can do in the hands of someone who can properly adjust the Expression system if plugged in or really experience the acoustic sound if not: and not in some music store either! Seriously: I dare ya!
If they didn't kick butt I wouldn't own them or waste my time with them! Ask some of the attendees at the 1st Southern Jam last year:
or just continue to be lemmings!
Invitation stands! |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | BTW, I also own some of the finest Ovation and Adamas instruments made as well as a few other great guitars: You can like what ever you want to and hate whatever you choose: just be fair and try and experience the best (not the bottom end or the middle runs but the top drawer stuff!) Call before you come please!
(And yes, the pain meds are kicking in really good tonight!)
:cool: |
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Location: SoCal | Mikey, I think most of the comments here are directed towards the cost/value ratio of Taylors. They are certainly fine guitars and I've played some that I have liked very much.
But they cost a lot for what you get. I can spend $2500-$3000 and buy a Taylor that's a very nice, good quality instrument. Or I can spend $1200-$1500 and buy something else that will certainly compete with it. And I'm not thinking specifically of Ovations and Adamii. For $1500 or less, you can buy a great Larivee. Even Seagull makes great guitars in that price range.
But even tho' I've played some Taylors that I thought were good guitars, by and large, most of them just don't talk to me. It doesn't mean they are bad guitars, it just means that they are not for me..... |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Paul, I respect that and I agree to a point: everybody has their likes and dislikes: There are a lot of great guitars out there that cost less: but seriously, if I had to pay retail I would not have half of the guitars I own no matter the brand...(there are bargains to be had if one looks and is patient)...I just think that to bash a brand because they're expensive: well it's not fair if you haven't really played a good one: and there are bad ones I agree: my baby Taylor is a piece of crap: Mahogany top and all...but it fits in the overhead bin when I go overseas...I don't hope to change anybody's preferences: but if anyone is in the neighborhood: call and come over and I'll set you up! Then decide for yourself: not just because someone thinks otherwise. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | See there? It was a boring Monday and I managed to spice things up a bit around here. Don't all thank me at once.
What's the point? Just that I dislike Taylor guitars and everything about them. And for no good reason. I'm sure tons and tons of them are way better than any guitar I'll ever own. Doesn't matter. It could be the very best sounding, playing, looking guitar I've ever come in contact with. I'd still dislike it just because it said Taylor on it. Yes, I am an ignorant, bigoted, biased, misinformed meathead. But I'll never candy coat it. I am what I am, and there's no way on Al Gore's green earth that any Taylor guitar will ever find it's way into my house. Ain't gonna happen.
I have no idea why I feel compelled to broadcast my disdain for Taylors so publically. Not my intent to piss anyone off. We all love and hate what we love and hate for reasons that are only meaningful to us. And sometimes we have no idea what the reasons are.
Peace,
Dave |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | i think Tupperware want us to forgot that he actually liked one Taylor once, and he can't live with it.
BTW, great picture on 1st page (that with baptist church) it made my day :-) |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Yes Dave my friend, true enough: but...that's why we love ya dude!
You know how to yank my chain...we've been down this road several times...but it's cool...it's still a big world and there's room to disagree...
In the meantime, C'mon over and play the '48 for a while: I'll leave the Taylors in the cases...
BTW: I really do have a hankering for a Froggy Bottom...and maybe a Ryan...maybe...someday...
:rolleyes: |
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Location: enid, ok | Tupp, I'm with ya. I'm not an acoustic guy, but I do know this; I've played my share of electrics, and Fenders blow, whereas Gibsons suck. Value for your dollar hasn't been there for decades, and the vintage stuff is way out of reach. There are so many brands and types that far exceed the name stuff that it's insane to keep going back and dipping that well. I don't begrudge those that do, I just think they're doing themselves a major disservice. That's fine. More for us! Ovations rock! |
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Location: south east Michigan | This would be cruel, but fun.
Ten of us take Mike up on his offer to test drive his Taylors and no matter what everyone really thinks, state that the experience has only strengthend our disgust and revoltion for the brand.
That'd drive the poor old boy right to the edge with the rest of us "lemmings". But we would definatly stop him before he jumped. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | Mike, I think anther part of the "Taylors suck" feeling, is the incredible smug and superior attitude many Taylor owners seem to have. Not to mention the anti-Ovation bias many of them have. When people have a "I have the best guitar and yours must suck" attitude, it doesn't really make you want to try their brand.
I've played a few Taylors I thought were nice, but never played one that I'd consider buying.
So maybe it's just that some Taylor guitars suck and some vocal Taylor owners are opinionated jerks. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Bob Taylor raises trained gerbils |
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Location: ms | Al Tupp said Al Gore, shut him down!!!!!!! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by MusicMishka:
In the meantime, C'mon over and play the '48 for a while: I'll leave the Taylors in the cases... Now you're talking !!!
Please note that I have been very careful not to portray Taylor guitars in any way "inferior" to what I play. Or Taylor owners in any way less informed, or poorer choice makers than myself. I don't doubt for ONE SECOND that there are tons of Taylor guitars out there that completely blown away my stuff. And for the record I HAVE played some very nice Taylor guitars. But I would never ever want to own one, that's all. My Grandfather was the same way about Ford cars. He freaking HATED them. He'd rather walk to work than drive a Ford. For no logical reason, just because that's what he felt. By the way, my son owns and plays a Taylor and I have not disowned him. In fact I've posted numerous times on this board that it sounds great and is one of the best bangs for the buck out there. I just wouldn't want to own it. The intro page to this forum says "members should share their opinions", so that's what I do.
Dave
PS - One interesting thing I do notice (on the AGF Board), and Mike this IS NOT DIRECTED TOWARDS YOU, and I think others notice it as well - Taylor owners in general sure do get their panties up their cracks when you criticize their guitars. Collings to a lesser extent, but the general Taylor community just flips out at the slightest critical comment. Geez. I personally could give a crap what anyone says about my guitars. I hear all the "plastic-junk" (ovation), "jap-crap" (takamine), and "fad guitar" (martin) comments and it just rolls off my back. My guitars are only put on this earth to please ME. And they do a damn good job of it |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | i wouldn't mind having this Taylor in my house
link
i think it could be very pleasing. |
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Location: Brisbane Australia | Nah!! Too highly strung :D |
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Location: NJ | Somebody tell her that she's got jizz on her eye . . .
btw;
F@ckTaylors. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | If that's a Taylor guitar, I hate the video.
Dave |
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Location: SoCal | Leave it to Clifford...... |
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Location: NJ | . . I'm reining myself in.
There were a couple of comments that I WANTED t'make, that'd probably get me thrown offa' here . . . |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I have a really beautiful Taylor neon sign. It is backed by a group of Gibson guitars that rarely get played any more. I'm too busy messing around at the other end of the band room where the SSBs, Vipers and VXT hang out. I'm not opposed to picking up a Taylor someday, but it is not on page one of my priority list. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | My thoughts on the subject, in no particular order:
- Taylors are wonderful guitars.
- Ovation, and the rest of the industry, wish their fit and finish was half as good as Taylor's. Sorry, Ovationistas, but the best you have to offer still isn't in the same ballpark as what Taylor is producing.
- There seem to be a disproportionate number of self-important wankers among the ranks of Taylor owners. Smug is ugly.
- The "AA" battery version of the Expression System was so-so. The newer 9V version is far superior. But in both cases, the system lacks the "pop" that you get with an Ovation. Its far harder to get a Taylor to really separate itself from the mix.
- I've had the opportunity to work directly with David Hosler at Taylor. You won't find a more knowledgeable guy, or someone more committed to their customers. He is a class act 100%.
- When its all said and done, I'm still an Ovation fan at heart. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by Omaha:
- Ovation, and the rest of the industry, wish their fit and finish was half as good as Taylor's. Sorry, Ovationistas, but the best you have to offer still isn't in the same ballpark as what Taylor is producing. Check out a Hamer. You'd be hard pressed to find a better built guitar in terms of quality anywhere at any price. Speaking only from the perspective of my custom model, I think Ovation is approaching the Hamer standard with their VXT line. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Omaha:
Ovation, and the rest of the industry, wish their fit and finish was half as good as Taylor's. Sorry, Ovationistas, but the best you have to offer still isn't in the same ballpark as what Taylor is producing.
Well, maybe that's the problem. I look at Taylors and think that they make a beautiful instrument that almost qualifies as furniture. But they don't talk to me or make me feel THAT much better when I play them. That they do for a lot of people is great.
But I want a guitar that speaks to my soul when I play it, and Taylors ain't it.
To devote a whole thread to "which guitar is better" is kinda stupid. We play the guitars that make US happy, not somebody else.
When the guy who plays the Taylor comes to practice on Thursday night, I hope he plays it well because that will add to the band. And regardless of how I feel about his guitar, I'll tell him "Nice guitar". I'm certainly not going to rag on him regarding his choice of guitars (at least not much)..... |
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Location: NJ | . . . next time, just hit him over the head with it.
(what were you saying last week about "subtlety", Bill??) |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | Ok.
1) I have played 3 Taylor guitars, so it's not a very big experience. None of them had any visible flaws or imperfections, and all looked really good. Sound wise, Taylor 414CE i've played sounds nearly as good as my Furch D40CE acoustically. But i've paid only $500 for Furch.
814 CE was nice guitar, but nothing really special. 310 was total junk.
2) Finish on Ovation - those i've seen (again - maybe 10 Ovations in Poland last year) were far behind Taylor. Every guitar had some minor imperfection, except Adamas and AD II model.
3) VXT - sounds good, looks awful. I don't think this model will be in production in 3 years.
Body shape sucks, fingerboard looks cheap and if it didn't sound like it sounds, i'd say that this is a 400$ guitar made in Korea. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by MusicMishka:
Open Invitation: To any OFC member: Any day, Any Month, Any Time: come and play one of mine: I dare ya! Jeff, bring the trebouchet ... |
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Location: NJ | . . . I'll get the auger bit. |
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Location: closely held secret | And the Dremel for the detail work. |
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Location: Vernon CT | Wow, Just got back from running erands and I'm so glad to see another "warm fuzzy" family discusion going on here. As you can all see by my Signature, I own a Taylor. First guitar in my short time playing that ever "spoke" to me. I love and would never part with it. But as you can also see, I have my share of "O"s. The second guitar Manufacturer that "speaks" to me.
If I had $3,000.00 to blow , I would love another Taylor. But bang for buck, The "O"s are hard to beat. Can we all play nice? :) |
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Location: NJ | ". . And the Dremel for the detail work . ."
Oh, yeah, . . "fit & finish" . . . |
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Location: closely held secret | It ain't "finished" till it "fits" in a shoebox... |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
I look at Taylors and think that they make a beautiful instrument that almost qualifies as furniture. But they don't talk to me or make me feel THAT much better when I play them. I've never seen a piece of furniture, or even a high-end piano, that's anywhere near the Taylor finish quality. Then again, I don't shop at the "good" stores.
I hear what you are saying. I'm not saying that you should like Taylors. That's a subjective question and purely a matter of taste.
But the undeniable, objective reality is they are setting the bar for finish quality these days. When I compare any Taylor to my Koala, the Taylor comes out on top. The Koala has:
- Thick globs of finish drips inside the slothead
- A fairly rough joint between the bowl and the binding
- An overly sharp corner around the edge of the top (I eased it myself with some sandpaper).
- And not exactly a finish issue (but a "fit" issue): It took a trip back to the mothership to get the neck and intonation correct.
Those are things you just don't see on a Taylor.
All that having been said, I play the Koala every day and haven't touched my 714ce for months. And there's a reason. I like the Koala better.
But just because I prefer the guitar, doesn't mean I can't appreciate the quality that Taylor delivers. Their guitars really are well made. And when you consider their production levels, they are all the more impressive. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Well there's 10 minutes I'll never get back. |
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Location: closely held secret | Like you would know what to do with it if you had it back. |
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Location: NJ | ". . . It ain't "finished" till it "fits" in a shoebox . ."
Now, THAT's Funny!!! :D |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Wow - can you believe every response I have is probably grounds for dismissal?
I knew you could. |
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Location: everywhere | Seems like Standing Ovation has taken over Tuppy again.
But he is right, Taylors suck (0r most of them anyway)
and Omaha is further right, the pompus selfappointed eyerectus infected misinformed hollow wankers, give other guitar players a bad name. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Weaser P:
Wow - can you believe every response I have is probably grounds for dismissal?
I knew you could.  |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Whoa - This is like the OFC of old. We used to have edgy banter like this all the time. No knock on the newer members but over the last few years things have gotten much more plain vanilla. I guess that's only natural. Glad we (me) stirred things up a bit. My last 3 pasos - Taylor definately builds some nice shit. And I wouldn't want to own any of it in a million years. Hal Jordan be damned.
Dave |
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Location: NJ | ". . but over the last few years things have gotten much more plain vanilla . ."
like Taylors. |
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| I really like Hillary Clinton. |
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Location: closely held secret | Who cares.
...I mean, that's nice.
I hear she's running for Queen next year. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by schroeder:
I really like Hillary Clinton. Obviously, you're not a misogynist like everybody on this side of the pond.... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I don't know what a misogynist is but I want to be one. Hopefully it's those guys in San Angelo TX with the dozens of teen aged wives all dressed up like "American Girl" dolls. Dave |
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Location: closely held secret | Are you planning to vote for Her Thighness, Paul? |
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Location: NJ | I have played a ton of taylors. I have never found one that spoke to me. not one.
I hate the expression system. Every time I play someplace and someone has one of those they take forever to set it up. my ovations just plug and play.
last week I slammed a cowboy e on my adamas and I physically saw people jump in thier seats. there was that much sound. I am oftened asked by some of the no nothing kids at the coffeehouse why my e string rings so much on "that" guitar (adamas I) I respond it is the sound of money. LOL
I also don't buy into the finger jointed headstock on taylors. sure it saves money but why no just say that. everyone knows if you cut and paste you change the integrity of the piece of wood. Although probably it makes little difference to the overall sound of the guitar.
I will keep trying but I have yet to find "that" taylor |
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Location: Omaha, NE | FWIW, they phased out the fingerjoints over the last year. The new ones have a scarf joint. Same effect. Looks better.
The fingerjoints always looked like crap to me.
But mechanically, they are fine and I can't imagine they have any effect on the tone one way or another.
At the other end, the Taylor neck joint is marvelous. In a CNC world, every maker should be doing them that way. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by alpep:
I am oftened asked by some of the no nothing kids at the coffeehouse why my e string rings so much on "that" guitar (adamas I) I respond it is the sound of money. Best line of the day...... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | My Taylor DDSM Doyle Dykes Signature Model is a terrific guitar. Every other Taylor I have tried sucks. |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | unexpected Ovartion Sighting
So guys, conclusion is... Taylor guitars LACK SOUL.
EOT. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Originally posted by stephent28:
My Taylor DDSM Doyle Dykes Signature Model is a terrific guitar. I concur. |
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Location: Portland, OR | I have absolutely nothing to add. My partner has a Taylor. It's OK but I don't think I'd pay $2k for it. But I don't have it anyway. Looks like Hillary will win. Anyone want a bumper sticker that says "Anybody but Hillary"? |
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Location: south east Michigan | There are not many hard & fast rules around here but one of them is to stay clear of politics.
But thanks for the offer. |
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Location: ms | Tupp liked my 710 Taylor we have pics to prove it. I like my just out of the shop 415CE Taylor but I can`t get that elite-T out of my mind. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I did like your 710 VERY much. But I still wouldn't want to own it unless you scratched the name off the headstock. Sorry.
Dave |
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Location: Rego Park, NY, | Originally posted by cliff:
. . I'm reining myself in.
There were a couple of comments that I WANTED t'make, that'd probably get me thrown offa' here . . . Cliff all ya have to do is spend your month's vacation from this board at Big Al's house. He's only about an hour or so away from you isn't he? |
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Location: NJ | TwoHours. |
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Location: SoCal | Anybody here realize how silly this thread is? Tup posts a joke (at least I assume it's a joke) and it takes off from there. For everybody here who loves Taylors, nobody is saying they are bad guitars (some jerk owners, but that's another thread). Most of us are just saying that they are not our cup of tea and the reasons why.
It's kinda stupid to keep repeating the same things over and over again.
I'm going to go out and do some work (I know, the concept of "work" bothers me too). When I get back tonight, there will probably be 3 more pages of the same nonsense.... |
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Location: closely held secret | ...to which you have only contributed an average of two posts per page. This 'work' thing seems to be slowing you down. |
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Location: NJ | . . and the term "contribution" is even questionable . . . |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Ovations suck and Bob Taylor craps gold nuggets.
Don't you guys know anything?
Geeze! |
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Location: closely held secret | I was trying to be kind. |
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Location: NJ | so was I |
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Location: closely held secret | Ouch. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | There's a big difference between saying "Taylor guitars suck" and "I hate Taylor guitars."
The former (suck) is a statement without merit about the guitars design, sound, playability, construction, cosmetics, etc. Without some benchmark or metric this is a rediculus statement. I've slipped and said it myself, but I try to be careful about such meaningless and arbitrary statements.
The later (hate) is a completely valid personal opinion about Taylor guitars. It needs no explanation, can not be second guessed and carries meaning only to the person saying it (me).
OK, I'm predicting we can hit 7 pages. Unless someone goes over the line and we get shut down.
Onward-ho
Dave |
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Location: NJ | that's it tuppy
you can't mention ho's
I am shutting this down |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | What? Al, your killing it at only 4 pages? |
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Location: closely held secret | Ho, ho! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Waskel, you can't say that. You'll get us shut down.
They are Personal Fornification Consultants.
Dave |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Ho boy :rolleyes: ... |
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| I'm thinking about becoming a Buddhist. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Weaser P:
Ho boy :rolleyes: ... Not that there's anything wrong with that... |
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Location: south east Michigan | Stand by... I wanna check out something.
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I was just over to the Tak site and my suspicions are correct. Tuppy does not cause havoc over there like he does over here. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | I'm following you here, Brad. You're saying that DAVE is the one who should convert to Buddhism.
Interesting... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Slipkid:
I was just over to the Tak site and my suspicions are correct. Tuppy does not cause havoc over there like he does over here. Good observation - I think of it as different outlets for different moods. I pay $24. a month for the Tak site so I'm sure not gonna pollute it with the vile filth that I spew over here.
Dave |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Well thank Hillary for THAT!
(whoops) |
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Location: everywhere | I would love to get a bunch of those anybody but Hillary stickers. Put me down for a hundred.
And then two hundred more that I can cut off the Hillary part and put it over O'Bamalam. As well as old man McCain.
What we NEED is Mr. Big to run for President.
Then we'll have Ovations in the white house and he can pass a law that says Taylor owners suck and not allowed to play.
Just think Al, you could probably get pretty good shipping rates selling the gear from the White House, dontcha think? |
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Location: Tennessee | Mr. Big could could decree from the Roundback Office that he could institute a new military/industrial complex that uses the US Air Force to drop-ship the Ovation boxes ... with their laser targeting systems. And I can see his campaign slogan now ... "Drop Bims Not Bombs". |
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Location: south east Michigan | Originally posted by Tupperware:
Good observation - I think of it as different outlets for different moods.
Dave [/QB] Two wise old sayings come to mind...
1) The fish always goes to where the bait is.
2) Don't poo where you sleep. (I've got a new puppy ya know). |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | you mean spoo, don't you? |
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Location: south east Michigan | Oh yes... I mis-spoke. :D |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Bob Taylor gives Ed Asner Full-Brazilians. |
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Location: NJ | you guys crack me up.
when atm's started my bank was forcing you to use them for deposits so I would write "hire humans not machines" on the bank envelopes.
it got back to one of the vice presidents of the bank....she happened to be my aunt....she was not pleased with me....I got cut out of the will |
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Location: Simpsonville, SC | ...a small (maybe) price to pay for individualism. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Time to choose another bank.
Sorry to hear about the will thing there Mr. Big. |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by Mauvais Beal:
Time to choose another bank.
Sorry to hear about the will thing there Mr. Big. no big deal...
I later found out it was my cousins that cut me out of the will by having a bedridden woman sign an altered version of the original.
cest le vie |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Now that's the typical way they do it. Not very imaginative but effective. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | "All the News that fits" comes to mind.
I never could understand buddhism. How can you learn discipline from a 400 pound jobless dude that smiles all the time and tells the Hot dog Vender "make me one with everything"? |
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Taylor Article In Todays Paper