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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | 9/13/09
Slipkid Manifesto revisited
As the author of the much and recently referred to piece I thought after three years I might revisit it.
At the time it was written there was turmoil and concern (or perhaps growing pains), about the direction we were heading. Excessive profanity, adult content and some politics were the issues of the day. Having been here though the beginning, middle and end of that era I can say that those issues were addressed and board wide changes were made.
With all the emphasis about the parts of the manifesto that say “don’t, stop it, cut it out” there are less referenced parts about not wanting to loose the thing that made the OFC so special in the first place. We did not and do not want to loose the edginess that, as professed by all, was not to be found elsewhere.
A minor course correction, a little moderation, a little forethought, and a dose of tolerance were all that was asked or required.
Today we are seeing another round of growing pains.
To my great dismay I have seen our own members draw the line and divide the OFC into “old guard” and “new guard”. It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth to use these terms myself but for the sake of clarity, I’ll us them here. The course correction called for was meant to accommodate what is now termed the “new guard”. The “old guard” was being asked to show a little moderation, respect, and tolerance. THEY responded. Now the “new guard” picks out the “don’t, stop it, cut it out” parts of the manifesto and ignores the conclusive statement about not wanting the OFC to loose it edge.
So in as much as the original manifesto took the “old guard” to the woodshed, allow me, IMHO address, the “new guard”.
For a group that professes tolerance, understanding, forgiveness and acceptance, you’re not putting on a very good showing. It’s a big, diverse, complicated world out there. We all have our own spectrum of ideas, lifestyles and opinions and each spectrum has it own idea of where the middle ground lies. If I choose to interact with the big, wide world that the internet offers, and want to enjoy the experience, one needs to realize that they're going to run into those different moral and believe parameters and accept them. I don’t have to change mine. I don’t have to take it upon myself to change theirs. If I don’t like it, or if they don’t like it, I can move on and find someplace more aligned with my own personal spectrum.
We are who we are. And hopefully we are content with who we are. But we don’t have to be everything that makes up who we are ALL THE TIME.
When I’m at work, I bring the parts of who I am that matters to the job. Husband, father, musician, writer of manifestos, is way, far down the list of things I am between 9 & 5.
When I come to the OFC I am….
#1) A fan of Ovation guitars
2) A fan of music
3) Wanting to share these personal traits with others who feel the same.
#’s 4) 5) 6) thu 15) are all variations a combinations of the first three.
Like the manifesto stated, If 85% of your postings is not about the top three topics, maybe you should be someplace else. And be grateful. That 85% is very generous compared with other forums.
Perhaps it should be revised to include overall content…. such as signature lines.
Over many years and over many, many posts…. and because the moderators have allowed a certain amount of leeway in what we post, long standing members might know more about each other beyond being a fan of Ovations and music. This information is past along in dribs and drabs on the board or perhaps in big chucks at face to face gatherings. But IMO, it should always be secondary to the basic function of OFC.
In conclusion, IMHO, to those whose want to label and divide the OFC into “new guard” and “old guard” and can’t make the stretch to accept that beyond Ovation guitars and music, which is all that should matter, people might be coming from a different place… Don’t,… stop it,… cut it out. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | edit:
I just realized that I myself used the terms "old guard" and "new guard" three years ago.
But I think you'll admit that the current useage carrys a different flavor and intent. |
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Posts: 1486
Location: Cincinnati | Great post, Brad. I had a misunderstanding not too long ago because I didn't know the "Old Guard" very well and what the OFC was about. I took their comments as being personal. Fortunately a couple of them communicated to me and gave me a much better understanding of how they looked at things and did things here. We are all different and need to accept it. |
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Posts: 4536
Location: Flahdaw | I hope the "85%" suggestion is never enforced. My favorite part of the forum is reading the smart-assed, non-guitar related, replies to posts from members like Weaser, Moody, Waskel, Slipkid, etc. In fact, if it was enforced, we never hear from Weaser again (well, maybe that's okay)
The problem with the "old guard/ new guard" designation is that it doesn't really apply to most of the forum members. I am a "newbie", but I don't want to be a "guard" of anything on this forum. I'm not a religious, political, overly patriotic, gun-carrying, wild-eyed American crazy man (new guard :) ) Likewise, I'm not a foul-mouthed, god-hating, ex-hippie, drug dealing heathen (old guard/ Weaser). It's the old 80/20 rule, you know, most of us are in the 80%.
Like the MAJORITY of us on the forum, we come here for information when we need it, but mostly for fun. I don't know about this shift from the old guard to the new guard....I mean, who determined anyone to be "outcasts?" (Again, I'm new, so maybe it happened before my time) There are a few posters with numbers between 1 and 1000, but not many. Did the others really leave because they were disgusted with the direction of the forum, or did their life circumstances just change?
Thanks Slipkid for all the work on the manifesto and I hope it settles things down. |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Brad, that's beautiful. A truely amazing piece of work. Complete jibberish, and totally irrelevant, but none the less well written.
Ok, that was a joke. You and I (as well as most of the old guard as you call it) have taken our discussions off-board so you already know how I feel. The manifesto and the 85% and all that is perfectly fine. But what about the guy who has no interest in talking about ovation guitars but comes here because he wants to meet up with his friends (who may or may not want to talk about guitars). They want to enjoy the push and pull of sharp witted humor just like they did in the old days. Sorry Brad, but I have no interest in going to the corner pub to chat with my friends about ... the corner pub. So there you go. |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Good point.
And put in that perspective, I totally agree.
Now.. how can we make that happen?
Or... how do we bring that back?
About the guy you mentioned... the guy that is all talked out about music... I know a guy like that on the board. An even so I'd say the great majority of his posts still fit into the format.
Great guy to... you should meet him. |
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Posts: 2241
Location: Simpsonville, SC | Old Guard? New Guard?
Is there a special link to join these groups? |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | " But what about the guy who has no interest in talking about ovation guitars but comes here because he wants to meet up with his friends (who may or may not want to talk about guitars). "
That's what the Social Network is for, not the forums which is "supposed" to be a source of information.
And Gallerinski, please don't take offense to this, it's not meant that way.. but you're not anywhere near what most would refer to as "old guard." I'm not sure where the line is really... I would hope there isn't a line, but I'm pretty sure most "founding members" (that just sounds better), have more than 4 digits in their post count by now and a member number less than 4 digits as well.
and I guess therein lay my point. If you can't measure it... does it exist?
The Ovation Fan Club has NOT changed over the years..... It has ALWAYS been about the guitars, with some breathing room for banter. There have always been people that just don't understand that. Need to define and line, puch a line, whatever. Just Jump to the General Postings list. 90% (maybe more I didn't count) is actually about Ovation Guitars. The "manifesto" was not written to ADD or TAKE AWAY anything... SLipKid didn't have to "come up with rules" it was just putting into words what was envisioned and existed all along... just never written down. |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Yah, newb. :p |
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Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast |  |
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Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
And Gallerinski, please don't take offense to this, it's not meant that way.. but you're not anywhere near what most would refer to as "old guard." I'm not sure where the line is really... I would hope there isn't a line, but I'm pretty sure most "founding members" (that just sounds better), have more than 4 digits in their post count by now and a member number less than 4 digits as well. You mean like about 13000 posts and member number 269 or so?
I know I'm still a newbie who just posts too much. |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | it's more fun to treat him as a newbie. |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | For the record ...
The very reason I QUIT at 5000 posts, and quit AGAIN after 10,000 posts was for the exact reason that I didn't WANT to be "old guard". I wanted to prove that "new guard" could be just as cutting, just as edgy, just as knowledgable, etc. Knowledgable still seems to have a place here, that's good. Cutting and edgy, I guess not. For the record I use dAddario EJ16. Any else just use the search function. |
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Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | A real putz..... |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | I used to own one of those. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | EJ16s.....
Yeah, the old guard uses EJ17s. |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Marketing spew. |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | The old guard woulda called it marketing spoo. |
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Location: closely held secret | Search function? |
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Location: Alabama | can someone please, please, please tell me how to post a picture? |
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Location: Newington, CT | Who's Member #1? |
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Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by bgm2000:
can someone please, please, please tell me how to post a picture? Go to the FAQ and page down to the 17th Q. |
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Posts: 109
Location: Alabama | Seriously - I have been around for a while but do not post too much. I enjoy all the input from folks with something constructive or informative to offer. Sometimes I enjoy the stuff that is not so informative or constructive. Old guard, new guard whatever - y'all keep on posting and don't take offense easily because life is too short. Dweez can probably tell me who said "Music is the Best!!" other people might know" Meet the old boss, same as the new boss." I get a great deal of pleasure and knowledge from this forum. Sometimes people get offended or upset here as elsewhere in life. Play it! - another good quote or admonition - whether it be your own music or some other persons. PMs are great for extended discussions with someone either on or off topic. Phone calls are great. I just want to say thanks to the whole board, moderators, members, newbies, oldies whoever... I will come back tomorrow or a few days from now to learn something else. |
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Location: Alabama | I shoulda used a wink on the first one, it was a lame joke |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by bgm2000:
a wink Ya never know 'round here...  |
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Posts: 3620
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | Brad,
The "manifesto" was and is a good idea. With that said I just thought I'd chime in with my opinion, since I have all of about 4 minutes before I have to go get some sleep ... The reason I joined the OFC is because I love guitars, and mostly Ovation and Adamas guitars. I don't consider myself to be an "expert" on them, or an expert player either, but that's not all that important to me either. I quickly learned that there are a lot of very knowledgeable people on this board in a lot of different areas, and that I could glean from all this knowledge and hopefully become better educated myself. I have also found there to be some very respectable and trustworthy people on this board, and even some that I probably wouldn't want to hang around with. I went to a family reunion today and found the exact same situation. I'll be going to the one next year also. There are definitely a lot of differing viewpoints around here and some occasional squabbles that remind me of my three-year-olds, but I don't have to click and comment or even view a subject I'm not interested in. I read a post the other day where someone suggested that some people were apparently just getting bored. That's all ok to me ... I am still mainly only interested in music and guitar subjects with a few exceptions, and just like the family reunions ... I'll still be coming back.
Sorry for rambling, but if you're still reading this you probably have more time on your hands than I do. Have a good night Ya'all (: |
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Posts: 806
Location: Seymour, Tennessee | I joined a long time back and have a low number 555 (actually a pretty neat number if I do say so myself) and a low post count, less than a 100 maybe. I guess I should be considered an old newbie guard then?
When I first found out about the site and joined, I was ecstatic to find a site about guitars I loved. I mostly have just sat back and read posts here and there but didn't post much.
I was away for quite a while because I didn't have decent internet capability and I was working bunches. It seems as if the only time I really get to read on the site is when I'm deployed.
I can appreciate differences in opinions, minor cat fights (Bowl fights might be more appropriate), etc. This will always occur when people come together. I think at times it makes things even more interesting here that is until is goes too far and starts to get nasty. I like that the moderators do allow considerable leeway here but that they also are not hesitant to stop a post from getting out of hand.
I enjoy the board for what I get out of it, information, knowledge, making new friends, etc.
I feel privileged to be a part of it and have really enjoyed my "rediscovery" of the site after a long absence.
I guess all I really want to say is thank you all for letting me be a part of this. |
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Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I haven't met a single member, here or in 'meet-space' that I wouldn't have over for dinner.
Can't say the same for my average work day. |
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Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | Have you ever met Al? |
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Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by fillhixx:
I haven't met a single member, here or in 'meet-space' that I wouldn't have over for dinner. Some of us can even open our own screen doors. |
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Posts: 4833
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | My own I don't have trouble with. It's those foreign ones without hinges.....
...and yes, I've met Al. Except for the accent, he's quite civilized. With the right influence. |
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Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | Originally posted by fillhixx:
My own I don't have trouble with. It's those foreign ones without hinges.....
...and yes, I've met Al. Except for the accent, he's quite civilized. With the right influence. Our Al??? Did you ask for id? |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by fillhixx:
My own I don't have trouble with. It's those foreign ones without hinges.....
I used to have one of those. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | Al looks pretty much the same as his shirt. I think he was suffering from jet lag when we met him, though. He wasn't nearly the wild and crazy guy he was reputed to be. |
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Location: closely held secret | Flying from Jersey to Seattle can leave you somewhat flat and colorless. |
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Location: GA USA | Don't you mean Joisey? |
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Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | I just wasted?? some time looking at the thread on Members in the NW again. I'm bummed we didn't get together this summer. We had such a great time at Miles' and Lisa's place. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Capt.Lovehandles, Head Counselor:
Don't you mean Joisey? No, Jersey. I know, it sounds funny because of my West Coast accent. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I'm bummed we didn't get together this summer. Me too. Let's start working on next years get-together now...... |
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Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | I'll offer my place or the cabin, but expect no one will want to come this far, so lets figure on the Seattle area. It will be easy to justify a trip to visit my daughter in Tacoma. |
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Posts: 4536
Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I'll offer my place or the cabin, but expect no one will want to come this far, so lets figure on the Seattle area. It will be easy to justify a trip to visit my daughter in Tacoma. What's wrong with Boise? I'd love to go to Boise (as long as we don't have to talk about those annoying Broncos) |
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Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | I'm sure I could arrange for a visit to the blue turf.
BTW, my first clarinet was a Vito, probably a little earlier than a 1966, but close. |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | wait for Al's manifesto......
be forewarned |
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Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | :eek: :eek: :eek: |
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Manifesto Revisted