|
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | This is a great article that's actually an answer to a college student who said she had 11,000 songs in her music library, but only paid for 15 CDs in her life.
http://thetrichordist.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/letter-to-emily-whit...
Very informative and eye opening.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2012
Posts: 32
| Great article! Preach on. I'm still old school when it comes to music. MP3's aren't the same quality as good old cd's. That being said they are a hell of a lot more convenient though!! I truly believe in supporting musicians though, so I purchase cd's and rip to the cloud. I get the convenience of streaming to any device plus the quality of cd's if i'm listening at home. I have almost 10,000 songs uploaded as well and still have hundreds of cd's left to rip. IMHO I don't think things will change for popular music, but i'm completely fine with it. Most of the stuff being downloaded is top 100 stuff anyways. 99% of that isn't worth listening to, let alone buying! Who cares if the latest boy band, teenage girl, country bumpkin.... doesn't get royalties for their crappy music. Hopefully there will be less of that crap to listen to as a side benefit. Greedy music companies made the problem by overcharging for music cd's in the first place. All the big music companies can go to hell for all I care. Hopefully in the future music model an independent artist can prevail and finally make a living playing music. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4065
Location: Utah | Outstanding article with clear relevant examples. Thanks for posting it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1559
Location: Indiana | jmuriel - 2012-06-21 3:56 PM
Most of the stuff being downloaded is top 100 stuff anyways. 99% of that isn't worth listening to, let alone buying! Who cares if the latest boy band, teenage girl, country bumpkin.... doesn't get royalties for their crappy music. Hopefully there will be less of that crap to listen to as a side benefit.
So, if music appeals to your taste, it should be paid for. Music you don't like, who cares if they get screwed or not?
As for independents benefiting from all this, I was playing a show in Texas a few years back. Afterwards, one of the other artists on the show and I were selling our CD's in the lobby. A couple walks up, the guy takes one of my CD's in hand, his girl is looking through my friend's. At one point, at full voice, he says, "you buy her's, I'll buy his, and we'll just make copies." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2011
Posts: 260
Location: Spain | I agree with jmuriel, the latest boy band rubbish etc don't desreve royalties in my opinion. MUSICIANS, by definition, should be the only people who get royalties. People who...um...actually make music. I don't want the Robbie Williams' of this world to get paid for studio-made garbage!
It's not a matter of "if it appeals pay if not no", it's a matter of actually having any musical talent. Those without are making a mockery of the industry.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7231
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Sorry martinez but I think you're going to be in the minority on this. Robbie Williams works just has hard as whatever has-been you're listening to. Just because you don't understand it, and don't realize the talent it takes to create it, does not invalidate it. If they can call Yoko Ono's stuff music, than every Robbie Williams in the world should be paid DOUBLE !!! FWIW I just googled him (never heard of him before) and he's a singer and music teacher, and mentor.... and there are tons of video of him live... I'd say he's workin his butt off. Don't much like those old crooner tunes, but they get the party going in the right crowds. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2011
Posts: 260
Location: Spain | Taken on board Mr O, maybe he wasn't the best example. (He isn't actually a musician of any kind by the way. He was a dancer in an 80's boy band....the kind of thing I want outlawed. He made money by making an image it was that simple.)
What I mean is, anyone who doesn't have any musical talent whatsoever (that's half of the charts isn't it?). Off the top of my head now I can't think of a name of anyone! wow!
If someone wants to be famous/make money from music, he/she/they should first learn an instrument, or find other people who play (if we're talking about a singer) , get together, practise, write songs, play gigs, and so on......these are the people that deserve royalties from music.
If someone goes on a tv programme run by tosspot record company bosses like that wanker Cowell, and they have no talent, then go in a studio and get tweaked to sound good, then sorry, they deserve F@*K ALL money from anyone!
I'm sure more musicians would agree with that? wouldn't they?
I saw a video of a young lad the other day, never heard of him, but he was a busker, he writes his own stuff and sings &plays guitar. Isn't that what it's all about?
Like it or not, they are the folks who should get paid for their talent, let the rest be downloaded.
Jake Bugg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTM9rV8uKpI |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | a lot of "overnight sensations" have been working on that "overnight" part for 10-20 years.
If has been proven over and over that talent only helps to sustain a career.
Getting there requires a lot of luck and the right place right time with talent usually a distant 3rd. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | stephent28 - 2012-06-23 10:16 AM
If has been proven over and over that talent only helps to sustain a career.
Getting there requires a lot of luck and the right place right time with talent usually a distant 3rd.
Thanks for explaining that so concisely.
Back in the 70's I knew many street musicians that were better than anything on the radio.
There was no internet, so just had to get "Discovered" while playing for change...
Later, I know of one band that got chosen for a Miller beer commercial as a "local" Boston band.
But they were far from the "Best" local band that I knew of in the 80's Punk/New-Wave scene.
And yeah... They need to outlaw ALL rap music, as well as that techno-crap dance music, but dumb white kids will continue to buy that crap...or illegally download it.
(just look who is driving the next annoying Boom-car so desperately striving for attention...) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7231
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | @martinez... Not picking... just pointing out... you used two phrases that I think explain things.. "that's half of the charts isn't it?" and "record company bosses".... if this is where you are getting your music.. from "record companies," than you are missing out on most of the music out there. As @old Man Arthur mentioned... in the 70's they "discovered" music but the best place to find great stuff was locally. Well now locally = Internet. About 1/3 or less maybe (and unfortunately) of indie music is online now. "Busking" now is putting your stuff on Reverbnation and youTube and then Kickstarter, or one of the other funding sites and hoping the passerby throws you a few cents/dollars in your bucket.
As far as the other comments... I'll ignor. By the way... no Blues or Country artist born after 1930 should get a penny.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2011
Posts: 260
Location: Spain | Cheers Mr O, I agree with what you say, pretty much....still not sure exactly what you're getting at..?
I still busk, real, in the streets, but yeah, reverbnation and the others are the new tool for it I guess. Isn't that good? we can actually find the kind of music we like and buy if we like..? isn't it kind of the point I was making before?
For what it's worth i found someone from OFC on reverbnation the other day, it was cool.  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4065
Location: Utah | martinez - 2012-06-23 10:55 AM
If someone wants to be famous/make money from music, he/she/they should first learn an instrument, or find other people who play (if we're talking about a singer) , get together, practise, write songs, play gigs, and so on......these are the people that deserve royalties from music.
If someone goes on a tv programme run by tosspot record company bosses like that wanker Cowell, and they have no talent, then go in a studio and get tweaked to sound good, then sorry, they deserve F@*K ALL money from anyone!
I'm sure more musicians would agree with that? wouldn't they?
My status as "musician" may be up for critique, but no I don't agree.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you do like it, pay for it. Do you like steak? If so, the people involved in providing you with the steak deserve to get paid for their efforts. If you're a vegetarian, you don't buy steak and so all those meat workers get none of your money.
I see music the same way. I buy albums and singles all the time, but there are artists I will never listen to and thus I will never buy from. That's the power of the free market. Just because I hate someone's "art" doesn't mean they shouldn't sell to other people who do like their stuff. Even if they can't play an instrument with any skill, enough somebodies out there like the product enough to pay for it.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1559
Location: Indiana | FlySig - 2012-06-23 8:37 PM
If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you do like it, pay for it.
+1
Don't spray paint art you don't like. Leave it for the next eye to judge and walk on down the hall until you find a painting you do like. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2010
Posts: 823
Location: sitting at my computer | re: the OP, And it's not just limited to musicians... photographers, illustrators, graphic designers, authors, video & movie producers... are all combating the same situation. Digital content can be copied so easy ("even a caveman can do it") that people make copies without a thought. Maybe one day there will be "smart" files that actually erase themselves if illegitimately duplicated. "Shame on you Mr. Phelps, this file will now self-destruct." re: screw the musicians you don't like Why deny anybody (boy band, girl band, real deal or wannabee) the opportunity to earn a buck? If they can find people willing to pay to hear or watch them perform then kudos to 'em. The audience will vote with their wallets. Not all who find success are the "most" talented... not all who are "talented" find success. Tenacity and Luck generally play a big role too. And if you don't like their music, fine, don't purchase it, don't listen to it... but that's no justification for anyone to rip-off the musician(s). I certainly wouldn't want someone who just because they personally don't like my music, deeming that it's therefore worthless to everyone else... or that it's okay to steal it. Would you? Just sayin'
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2011
Posts: 260
Location: Spain | Haha wow I can't believe I'm the minority, on a forum full of musicians!! "don't spray paint art you don't like"..IT'S NOT ART.
I'm not trying to piss anyone off here, honestly, but I cannot believe you guys condone the rubbish being churned out, and I repeat, by people with no musical talent at all. You're actually saying they deserve money? for making a joke of the industry?
Ok, I'll take somebody off the street, (making sure they don't play any instrument, or sing or anything like that), dress them up, work the image, play with the sound (A LOT) tweak all the effects so it sounds "like music"...and promote the hell out of it and sell it to little kids and any other tosser dumb enough. Meanwhile all those who have actually practised till it hurts and done lots of hard gigs, f@*k them.
Anyone here who thinks it's ok for this "artist" to make money should hang up their guitar.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7231
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Definition of Music Industry Career as an Entertainer making millions.
"Ok, I'll take somebody off the street, (making sure they don't play any instrument, or sing or anything like that), dress them up, work the image, play with the sound (A LOT) tweak all the effects so it sounds "like music"...and promote the hell out of it and sell it to little kids and any other tosser dumb enough."
Definition of Starving Artist
"Meanwhile all those who have actually practiced till it hurts and done lots of hard gigs"
Successful Indie Artist
"dress up, work the image, play with the sound (A LOT) tweak all the effects and promote the hell out of it and sell it to little kids and any others all the while practicing till it hurts and playing lots of gigs."
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2011
Posts: 260
Location: Spain | I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then, it seems you don't have an opinion. That's a ridiculous post. Although cutting and pasting my words is actually quite funny considering the original topic
To go back to the original post, and the original point, I agree wholeheartedly that MUSIC should be paid for.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7231
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Actually we agree.. just not on what music is. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2011
Posts: 260
Location: Spain | May I apologise for the tone of my previous post, I was still angry at losing the Euro football (I shouldn't be, I'm used to it now!!(
Weird that we don-t agree what music actually is, as we-re both guitar players... >* |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2012
Posts: 32
| Its not about me LIKING the music or not. The problem I have is that the record industry OWNS the radio industry. They decide who will be on the top 100 99% of the time! You think anyone gets on the radio? Only those who pay radio stations to play music, or have connections to the radio industry (He who has the most money wins). You don't think that spending millions on the next boy band/teenage girl idol sensation doesn't offset costs? Maybe that is why they were charging such ridiculous prices for a CD that costs 10 cents to make (remember when CD's cost $20)? Are they spending millions on a talented band OR just a pretty face who sings songs written by someone else (SARCASM)? The state of popular music today is a freaking joke. Its not just the industries fault, its the people's fault for supporting it. Its time for a massive change, and maybe this is the beginning. So yes, I don't care if the bands they paid to get airtime get screwed from royalties. Maybe this will level the playing field a little bit and allow different music to be heard. Imagine that, radio stations playing music based on merit/talent. Doubt it, but we can always hope! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | mileskb - 2012-06-23 3:50 PM
By the way... no Blues or Country artist born after 1930 should get a penny.
What the hell is THAT supposed to mean? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7231
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | darkbarguitar - 2012-06-25 11:33 AM
mileskb - 2012-06-23 3:50 PM
By the way... no Blues or Country artist born after 1930 should get a penny.
What the hell is THAT supposed to mean?
I didn't mean to offend anyone, but I don't understand or like early blues or country. I just don't connect with it, the recordings sounds terrible, I don't get it. I never have. I do recognize it's part of history, so I respect it and that's it. The other part is there seem to be a ton of artists that are making a living off of blatantly copying those artists under the cover of "paying respect" when in fact it's marketing 101, plain and simple. Not all are, but many. Bonnie Raitt uses her celebrity to educate and promote the early artists as part of History, that's fine. Great even. There are others that just name-drop old tunes for album sales. It's fine I guess, but I don't see that as any different than the "boy bands" being discussed. It's a way to market a product, you do whatcha gotta do. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7231
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | jmuriel - 2012-06-25 10:28 AM
Its not about me LIKING the music or not. The problem I have is that the record industry OWNS the radio industry. They decide who will be on the top 100 99% of the time! You think anyone gets on the radio? Only those who pay radio stations to play music, or have connections to the radio industry (He who has the most money wins). You don't think that spending millions on the next boy band/teenage girl idol sensation doesn't offset costs? Maybe that is why they were charging such ridiculous prices for a CD that costs 10 cents to make (remember when CD's cost $20)? Are they spending millions on a talented band OR just a pretty face who sings songs written by someone else (SARCASM)? The state of popular music today is a freaking joke. Its not just the industries fault, its the people's fault for supporting it. Its time for a massive change, and maybe this is the beginning. So yes, I don't care if the bands they paid to get airtime get screwed from royalties. Maybe this will level the playing field a little bit and allow different music to be heard. Imagine that, radio stations playing music based on merit/talent. Doubt it, but we can always hope!
Oh geez... don't get me started on that. I was a college radio DJ in the late 70's. Today not even the Music Industry controls radio content anymore... Advertisers control it. Plain and simple. Only certain songs or certain genre before or after certain commercials. It's all calculated and programmed out by a computer. Ever notice in larger markets when you switch stations other completely unrelated stations are playing the same commercials at the same time. It's not coincidence.
When I lived in the DC are in the early 2000's I had a 1hr + commute each way. I could tell if I was running late or on time based on the song I was hearing at certain points of the commute. The tunes of course changed every week once the charts came out, but for an entire week, I could tell how the commute was going by how many times I heard a tune. I remember when "Inside Out" by Eve 6 was charting and we heard it one morning SIX TIMES between the three rock stations in just over an hour !!!!
Another fun thing to do was scan between the radio stations when a MacDonalds commercial came on and see how close all the stations were to being syncd.
I can't blame the Recording Industry.. They are sunk. They are grasping at straws.. They DO NOT take ANY risks anymore. Notice that there aren't really any "one hit wonders" anymore, and that every new artist (term used loosely) is a platinum seller. They spend the money to insure it. They know what sells and that's what they do. ART or MUSIC has little to do with it. It's an INDUSTRY and to exist in todays market, based on how they operate, they can no longer afford to "promote" anything but a sure thing.
But, if you want to find TONS of great music and artists you can support... YouTube and ReverbNation and CDBaby, etc.. are great places to start. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | The aguement/debate post that opened this discussion has been popping up along with various replies to it. Jay Frank (Hack Your Hit) had a good take on it....about how much is 'actually' being stolen. (In the case of Mr Lowerys band(s) CVB & Cracker it was too low for Google analytics to bother with) and what that means.
I like this retort best of what I've read so far...and not just because it's from a member of Gang Of Four.
http://www.north.com/latest/the-internet-could-care-less-about-your... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2011
Posts: 260
Location: Spain | Wow things are so much more complicated than I thought. I don't know why I bothered with this discussion, I'm not even a good musician!! It seems I don't understand the internet really either!!
I'm off! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I don't think anyone really understands the internet.
It's even more complex than women, with less manners.
But that's no reason to avoid the conversation. :-) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | fillhixx - 2012-06-26 12:28 PM
I don't think anyone really understands the internet.
It's even more complex than women, with less manners.
I like to google my women, followed by a twitter session, and if that doesn't work, I reboot them right in their facebook |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7231
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | fillhixx - 2012-06-25 1:04 PM
The aguement/debate post that opened this discussion has been popping up along with various replies to it. Jay Frank (Hack Your Hit) had a good take on it....about how much is 'actually' being stolen. (In the case of Mr Lowerys band(s) CVB & Cracker it was too low for Google analytics to bother with) and what that means.
I like this retort best of what I've read so far...and not just because it's from a member of Gang Of Four.
http://www.north.com/latest/the-internet-could-care-less-about-your-mediocre-band/
Nail on the head... THANKS!!! That's why he's the writer and I'm not. I have spent more than a year researching the Recording Industry (on both upper and lower case) for my studio. It forced me to delve in deeply to who makes money where and how, and those with the biggest potential.. Musicians who take matters into their own hands and choose to use their talents as musicians as the product to grow a business so they can indulge themselves making more music.
Excellent article.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | The current state of the music 'business' is both frightening and full of opportunity. Much as it has always been.
I'm still trying to find the bumper sticker our (1980s Juno nominated) drummer said he saw,
"Real musicians have day jobs." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2010
Posts: 823
Location: sitting at my computer | darkbarguitar - 2012-06-26 1:52 PM fillhixx - 2012-06-26 12:28 PM I don't think anyone really understands the internet. It's even more complex than women, with less manners. I like to google my women, followed by a twitter session, and if that doesn't work, I reboot them right in their facebook careful, I've heard that can leave ya with an overheated hard drive... and severe connection failure resulting in a total loss of all link-up to download capability!
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2010
Posts: 823
Location: sitting at my computer | martinez - 2012-06-25 5:05 PM I'm not even a good musician!! you're good enough to be playing somewhere... and they even let ya come back!  Hopefully they paid ya too!!!
|
|
| |
Paying for music, explaining it to young people