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Location: Upper Left USA |
... I'm grieving the loss of a good friend.
I was really disappointed when Ovation took on the DJ Ashba motif of drug induced halucinations, which of course followed the Nicki Sixx Heroin crap where he (still) sits on the American Flag on their anemic website.
How frickin hard would it have been to send the CNC machine and "LX" tooling overseas when they outsourced the Acoustic production into Epoxy necked celebrities - that they call Ovations? What it really means to me when I see anything "AX" or "TX" in the advertising is that what I knew before is dead and all of the forward thinking and innovations like the "LX" and "VXT" have been squashed and replaced by 40 year old manufacturing techniques of disposable guitars for Hanna Montana fans. Maybe they should remove the "Ovation" label and re market them as "Kay" or "Harmony"... I must be moving ahead because I'm leaving denial and feeling fairly pissed. |
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Location: SoCal | On a number of the guitars builit overseas, they have removed the traditional Ovation logo on the headstock and gone to one that looks like crap. Good way to begin the indentification process of what guitars to stay away from....... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Hmm, I understand how you feel brother.
Maybe I'm just older than you Woody (not wiser), and I too grieved. But I'm over it and have come to accept it. In fact I'm now much more cynical about my OWN past behavior. What I mean is SHAME ON ME for expecting that things would never change, for feeling robbed of my Ovation youth, for feeling that Ovation owned ME something ...
I think I owe THEM a big THANK YOU for being such a part of my life for so long. I choose not to bitch and moan anymore over what IS, but rather to be thankful for what WAS and that I got to be a part of it. They can kill the brand if they want to, but they can't kill the memories.
Oh how I long for the days that Milk Shakes used to actually be made out of MILK ... |
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Location: Flahdaw | Standingovation - 2012-06-27 11:01 AM
Oh how I long for the days that Milk Shakes used to actually be made out of MILK ...
Still available from the Custom Shop as a special order |
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Location: south east Michigan | Just wanted to drop in and give credit to Standingovation's post.
Well said sir.
I'm sure many of us feel the same way, just couldn't put it into words. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I've been to too many funerals lately, so I've tried to mourn the loss and cherish the memories, just as I do for all the good times I've had with this site and its members. I wish I had the opportunity to get in a bit earlier and share more good times, but I can't change that.
A comment by a colleague on Saturday got me thinking of Ovation's "demise". He got into guitars later in life than most of us and owns a couple of Fenders. He saw my Ovation collection and immediately focused on an Ultra GS, asking if it was a Strat. After I told him it was Ovation's version of a Strat, I thought about how the companies were sort of competitors, but Fender won and pushed Ovation into the background. It happens. Fender didn't choose the direction we would have preferred, but it's the direction and we can choose to follow it or not. |
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Location: New Hartford CT | The changing of the guard at Ovation began even before Fender took over. Unfortunately the new guard wasn't one of us.
Some key people left. Then came the day when someone with a degree had a better idea. 'We'll send ever increasing amounts of production (and associated subcontracting) offshore and it will have no affect on US work other than to increase it. We'll bring the subcontract work back in-house to keep people busy and save money."
Yeah, OK. |
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Location: Texas | I love improvements. Phones, cars, tools, amps, etc. The newest Ovation I have is a 1537 (I don't think the 40th K1111 RI counts) Ovation, imo, hasn't produced a superior acoustic since 67. Of course, that topic is highly subjective...but my point is, in the 80's you could walk into a "music store" and play any of the O's. Today...good luck. The only high end O I ever see at GC is a trade in, every now and then. And who supplies GC? It seems, like GM, FMIC has gotten itself into a situation where it is cannibalizing itself.
I posted the stats on another post about the trend is volume and 500.00, give or take a 100. Good guitars just do not fit into that retail demand. So, export the process and bring em back cheaper. Leaves no room for the Ovation we all know and love, to successfully compete, especially if there isn't one around to take off the wall and play.
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Location: sitting at my computer | MWoody, my condolences on the loss of your good friend. +1 re: the Ovation disapointment. But between all the mergers and acquisitions or worse, bankruptcies, few (if any) have remained the same. It's just the capitalist process in motion, gonna be winners... and losers. Change is inevitable, not always welcome, but inevitable. Heard an analyst saying that as the global market keeps changing and previously cheap labor becomes less so, combined with rising shipping costs, etc... that it may become more cost effective to bring that manufacturing back to the U.S.. I ain't holding my breath, but I sure hope he's right. At least (for the moment) there's a U.S. made Ovation Custom Shop. I hope it's still around by the time I can finally afford to order that custom Adamas I keep day-dreaming about!  |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | For the past ten years or so, its been difficult for me to get excited about any new guitar model other than customs and limited editions, regardless of the manufacturer. Fortunately, the factory still turns out wonderful Ovation/Adamas custom orders. |
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Location: Tennessee | I wish they were still churning out Ovations on Greenwoods Road, but they're making different guitars there now. And they are really good ones. But the flaw in most of the arguments is the assumption that the guitars they're making offshore are coming back here ... when in reality the majority of the production goes to other countries. So the shipping costs to get back here is irrelevant. And people in the Rest of World don't place a high value on American-made products, and have a generally favorable opinion of Asian products.
Also, analysts repeatedly show that cheap labor is not what is driving manufacturing out of the US. It's taxes, regulations, unstable labor conditions, and exposure to frivolous litigation that are the driving forces for companies to move manufacturing to more business friendly climates. The wage differential is a tiny fraction of the whole picture. |
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Location: Chicago | Look at it this way: there are hundreds of Ovation/Adamas guitars "floating about" from past production runs. Players who are worthy, those who deserve them will find what they seek. I sure did... in 1974 and 2007! For those who have contempt and scorn, there are dozens of OK other brands. HOWEVER, I do not think that any Taylor or Collings will give me the sound of an Adamas.... |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | stonebobbo - 2012-06-28 5:53 AM And people in the Rest of World don't place a high value on American-made products, and have a generally favorable opinion of Asian products. Being a member of the 'Rest of World', I wholeheartedly disagree with that comment Bobbo. American made products are still respected internationally, but getting harder to find. |
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Location: Ohio | Dobro
Players that are WORTH? What about tbois that just can;t afford guitars in that price range that are excellent players?
THis is turning into a big group of guitar snobs, just like the ones you gus complain about on other sites. |
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Location: Tennessee | Muzza, you're entirely correct. What I meant to type was "as high a value" ... especially when referring to mid-priced guitars. |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | I agree with Nikon. I have played music in roadhouses and concert halls to cowboy boots and to tuxedos. I play a Korean made Custom Legend 2079 AX every person that has played and seen the guitar are in awe of the crafting and sheer beauty of it. I don't own an American car. Can't afford $40,000 for a car that should cost $15,000. So I drive a little Japanese made Mazda that just hit the 100,000 mark with no more than a rubber hose replaced. I believe had the sales been stellar on the American made "works of art", they would still be made here. that's just my opinion. Now you know why I didn't post photos of my "new" Custom Legend. You bunch of jerks that own 150 pieces of artwork that hang on your wall and don't get paid the love and attention my little Korean made piece of junk gets. There are some nice people on here, but so far a large number are a bunch of snobs. I play my guitar 3 hours a day. While many of these fine pieces of artwork hang on a wall so some guy can brag about owning them. He never plays them. But he has some that cost 3 times what mine did and someday he'll get $50 more for his than I do mine. Because it'll be filled with dust and hollow memories.
Edited by AdamasW597 2012-06-28 8:47 AM
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Location: south east Michigan | Wow....
What... an ... ***. (okay, arse then)
.
No wonder most of the "snob's' don't hang here anymore.
Edited by Slipkid 2012-06-28 8:55 AM
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | Old Man Arthur is still my friend. He 's been with me since the beginning. OMA, I'd tip a glass to ya if I drank. Martinez actually seemed interested, too. Most however on my 2079ax post tried talking me into buying something else. I got it. It plays and sounds great and I'll play it with pride. Even though it has that stupid new logo on the top. That'll definitely change the way I sound. It's a wonder I can even play it. To hear some of you talk. The part that bothers me the most, is this guitar is well-made. So I'll just go on and play those guitars made by someone who doesn't know his a$$ for a whole in the ground about guitars. Well, they sure made mine nice.
Edited by AdamasW597 2012-06-28 9:19 AM
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | I'm a *** for buying a guitar that wasn't made in the US. I guess I'll have to sell my Takamine and my Yamaha. Oh, and my Japanese Stratocaster. I've had all those for over 20 years and they've served me well. The Yamaha for 30. I went on a rant a month or so ago about the same thing and felt a little bad about it. I don't feel bad about that one and I sure don't feel bad about this one. I don't see anywhere on here the "American-made" OFC. I own an Adamas W597. Side by side being played by 2 people the guitars sound virtually the same. The Adamas has a little more bass. I play guitar well enough to be paid handsomely solo. I could play as much as I want. But being disabled my body lets me know how much. I have a roadie, who sets up my gear for dinner and because he's a friend. I am a musician first and foremost. I waited 4 months and 4 days for my guitar to get here. It is simply one of the prettiest and well-made instruments I own. So I will not hang my head in shame because I have to buy what YOU think I need. I believe Ovation made that one for me. It's mine and it always will be. Thanks for all the help obtaining it Greg. I literally got the guitar I needed. I don't dislike the snobs. I just don't understand them. |
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Location: south east Michigan | No... you are not an a** for buying and enjoying a off shore guitar. That's fine.
There are many, many other reasons.
Edited by Slipkid 2012-06-28 9:50 AM
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Location: Flahdaw | Hey cool!!! A fun thread! (bound to get funner soon, until it's locked, that is) |
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Location: Texas | Bob...Agreed. It has been a long dry spell since DaveKel left. |
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Location: closely held secret | Maybe you need to read your own thread.
mymartind35 - 2012-02-18 4:26 PM
I just ordered a Custom Legend 2079AX. I know it's foreign made. But is it still as good as the Legend name? I have an Adamas. I haven't heard anything sound like IT. I wanted to come to the experts and ask you all what you thought. Be TOTALLY honest. This is a lot of do-re-mi! I know you'll deal straight with me. Is this thing gonna sound great or is it just another plastic topped guitar? I have 3 Celebrities and they have their place. I just want a really good guitar. I play in a loud 70's rock band and I need a guitar that can handle it. I have a TA 200 Trace Elliot acoustic rig. It's 200 watts. So it'll get loud enough. I just want to hear your comments. Please. Oh and does it have a great acoustic sound! I'm ordering it from a local music store. I love the way Ovations play. I know I will have 10 or more. I just wanna know if this is worth the price.
You asked for honest comments (because you had no knowledge), and that's exactly what you got - FROM THE EXPERTS WHOSE OPINIONS YOU SOUGHT. The only posts even remotely suggesting you look at American made were from a PROFESSIONAL MUSICIAN, comparing the build techniques and structural features of American vs Asian models.
We're 'snobs'? Your tone reminds me of a little kid who knew they did something stupid and then tries to get others to validate what they did as smart. When they won't, they get angrily defensive and start putting them down.I personally couldn't care less what kind of guitar you play or how you play it. But to walk into a room, address the occupants as 'experts', ask for advice and then start ranting and name calling because you disagree with the opinions you solicited... just a bit childish, don't you think? Of course you don't... |
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Location: south east Michigan | sorry.. double post
Edited by Slipkid 2012-06-28 10:47 AM
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Location: south east Michigan | And it's a damn shame, too.
This thread holds a few of the most well stated and intelligent posts I have read here in a loooong time. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | So... I started by pouring myself a well aged bottle of WHINE.
Suddenly I have the urge grab a bag of popcorn and sit back.
Like Dave says, I'll move on.
So will FMIC and all the sub Divisions.
I am a snob. A frugal snob, but still a snob.
My next guitars will likely be homemade and have a lot of issues 
I just hate to see good ideas held down. |
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Location: Flahdaw | I'm thinking about buying a low-end Taylor guitar. Does anyone here have any opinions on those? |
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Location: SoCal | darkbarguitar - 2012-06-28 10:22 AM
I'm thinking about buying a low-end Taylor guitar. Does anyone here have any opinions on those?
They burn well.
And no, that's not being a snob. It's based on experience. I've played low end Seagulls, Yamahas, Martins &
Epiphones that I'd buy before a Taylor. Often less expensive and better sounding.
You know, it's interesting that Japanese vs. American cars were mentioned. I have always bought Japanese cars. But the transmission on my current Mazda went out 2 weeks after the car was out of warranty and Mazda couldn't even be bothered to help out. $4000 later and they are out a customer for a new car. I'll drive this one into the ground (it's payed for), and never buy a Mazda again.
But oddly, American cars are looking better and better to me. Coincidence? I don't know. I do know that with so many older American made Ovations out there on the used market, I would easily buy one before buying a new Japanese/Korean/whatever made Ovation. Better features and less cost.
Don't ask for an opinion unless you really want one......
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Location: closely held secret | immoody - 2012-06-28 10:31 AMDon't ask for an opinion unless you really want one......
My point in a nutshell. |
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Location: Texas | " I do know that with so many older American made Ovations out there on the used market, I would easily buy one before buying a new Japanese/Korean/whatever made Ovation. Better features and less cost." Yep...not sure about features, cost vs sound...it's a no brainer. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I am glad for this thread. For years I have been saddened by the change in Ovation but I didn't wanna hurt anyone's feeling by stating it. I also didn't want to tread into Politics or Religion.
(Offshore manufacture being Political, and Ovation Fanaticism bordering on Religion)
@Mike (AdamasW597)... Way back in 2006-2007 I may have made a comment about USO-snobbery too... But that ain't it. Back then I owned many Celebrity's and my first O was a Korean-made 4861 Balladeer.
People were telling me that for the $400 that I paid for the 4861 or the $425 that I paid for a new-"USED" CC44 I could buy a really nice used USO... And they were correct.
A USA-made Ovation was something to strive for.
And it was still priced within reach of the humble Dishwasher/Laborer.
Now the price of an TX/AX is around what the price of a T or Balladeer was...
And they are made in frikkin' Asia.
I own (and have owned) guitars that were made in China and Korea, and Killer guitars made in Indonesia...
But I will buy a used USO before I would buy a New Korean Ovation...
I might buy a Celebrity before I would buy a Korean Ovation... I Know the quality of a Celebrity.
If I am gonna buy a dove-tailed neck "Ovation"... I will buy a dove-tailed neck Celebrity.
I like OP20's and OP30's anyway.
(Once I can buy a good TX for $250 I might try one, but I have USA Ovations that I bought for that much)
I wanted an Ovation because of fond memories of a shiny-bowl Balladeer that I had experienced in a pot/frisbee/mumbly-peg circle back in the 70's. To recapture my youth.
Korean Ovations are just Asian copies of Real Ovations! (there, I said it!)
--edit for spelling--
Edited by Old Man Arthur 2012-06-28 1:32 PM
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Location: Flahdaw | I was just kidding about the Taylor.
I DID just sell a decent used Seagull Artist. Now I'll be looking for a used, "beater" kind of guitar with an original retail of $1400 to $1600.
Might be an Ovation, might not.
Might be USA made, might not.
Let the hunt and the fun begin! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Hehe. Somebody called me a snob?! Ovation snob is a bit of an oxymoron. "Plastic guitar", "why don't you buy a real wood guitar?", "if you have the money, why didn't you buy a Martin or a Taylor?", "they slip off your knee". There's plenty of other comments showing disrespect for Ovation owners. I bought my first Ovation that was made in the US, not because it was made in the US, but because it, a Matrix, didn't have the Applause headstock that I didn't like. I could have saved a few bucks that I didn't have. Next was an Applause 12 string. Suited my needs, but sold it when I got a good deal on a 12 string Balladeer.
I found this forum when I was looking at a Celebrity and learned about all the different models and what people on this site preferred. If I had bought it, I know I wouldn't have it because I don't really care for the shallow bowls. It took a few to learn that, based on my opinion, not someone else's.
Unfortunately, no one pays to hear me play. Few will even listen for free. I have more guitars than I have time to play on a regular basis, but all of them have been played. Some of them were bought recently because I would like to have one of the last guitars Ovation made in the US. I've always liked Ovations because they were different and if everyone liked them, they might lose some appeal for me. I suppose there is a degree of snobbery in that, to the extent that I don't want to be like everyone else and don't really care what everyone else thinks. Being part of a small group is fine with me. I just wish I would have gone on one of the factory tours and participated in the jam sessions instead of assuming they would still be around when I had the time. That's the reason for my mourning. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | OMA - Did that feel good or what!
Let me fan the flames a little and off my services to receive and ship on this one:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/msg/3104555816.html
MWoody |
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Location: Suisun City, Ca | Snobbery for less than $400...30+ yr old legend and she plays as nice as she looks...maybe nicer! From one of the OFC elites... 
Actually, I just like showing off these photos... |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I guess I just don't get it. Ovation had gone through many evolutions and frankly the future can not be predicted. When AMF bought Harley Davidson it was the end..... then it wasn't. When Moto Guzzi started in 1923 it was the end.... they are STILL going out of business. But unlike either of those to my knowledge, you can buy ANY USA MADE OVATION EVER MADE IN THE CATALOG. I guess I'm selfish. If I had disposable income I would make the best of the Custom Order program. I get all the models, exact to spec, that I wanted.
I can't predict the future, but I think for those that have the money, a USA made Ovation, being that you can get ANY model you want, is quite exciting. For everyone else, there are used guitars and foreign made new ones AND used ones. Rock On. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | The opinions, prerogatives, and preferences of others are highly overrated. The older I get, the less difficulty I have in politely ignoring what others tell me I should or shouldn’t do. |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | There is no one here that answered my original question. Most had never played a Korean AX and wanted to know what it sounded like. Before they even played one they prejudged it to be inferior Have they played mine? No. Everyone I asked an opinion on my original post answered, not knowing how they sounded. Well I do. That's the reason I got mad. I still think some on here are snobs. Jump on Nikon like that. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. There are way too many on here who own guitars that ARE American made that don't sound as good as my 33 year-old Martin. If you haven't played a Custom Legend 2079 AX CCB then keep your opinions silent. I LOVE Ovation guitars. I own 4. But I'm kinda tired of feeling like an a-hole for buying a Korean guitar. It's all I could get and afford. I've been through this before with these guys. I haven't made these guitars like some on here have. My guitar is a great guitar and I'll stand by that. That being said. Try to quit bashing something you haven't played. SK is the one who called me names. Nikon said the same thing. "No... you are not an a** for buying and enjoying a off shore guitar. That's fine.
There are many, many other reasons." The man has never met me in his life and he lays that on me. Damn right I'm gonna get mad. Did I say Slipkid you're a snob? Nope. He just assumed it.
Edited by AdamasW597 2012-06-28 4:57 PM
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Location: SoCal | Nobody answered your question WITH THE INFORMATION FOR WHICH YOU WERE LOOKING (never end a sentence with a preposition). What we answered with was what we knew, that construction was better on USA built guitars (ie, the neck attachment). That's all.
I'm glad you like the sound of your guitar. That's a good thing. But everybody here who responded said "Nope, can't tell you about the sound because we haven't played one". You seem to be pissed about that. Don't be. Now you can let everybody who comes after you know that you really like it. We'll continue to say that all we know about is the construction of the old and the new, and hope that whoever asks doesn't get pissed at us like you have (yeah, like we care).
By the way, my 1914 Martin OO18 would make your 33 year old Martin sound like ****. There, now I've had my shot at sounding immature...... |
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Location: SoCal | Sonovabitch! Got sensored saying sh!t. Guess that means you can't say **** here even if you had a mouthful.... |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | @Waskel I did read my own thread. No one on there had played one. They don't know how they sound. They speculate. I was wished well and told good luck. There were a couple that told me to buy something else. There aren't any American made Customs out there. If there are they want 3 times what they're worth. Cracked tops and all. I'll say it again. I love Ovation guitars. I could have bought a Taylor for the same price but I bought an Ovation. So Slipkid calls me names when he doesn't even have an idea who I am. There are many many other reasons. That's real nice. I said there a were a bunch of snobs. That was out of anger. There a few. I apologize. But I think calling me an a**hole was way out of line. That's when I said all the stuff I said. So pardon me if I offended anyone. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Ouch! It hurts!!!!
Funny, I was trying to respond to Damon's thread on his new guitar, but this response turned out WAY appropriate over here. Hehehe
Edited by BobG 2012-06-28 5:32 PM
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | Moody I'm po'd because I was called an a-hole. I read almost every post on here. I truly am an Ovation fan. I don't live in an area of the country where there are any Ovations. eBay is a crapshoot. I won't buy off Craigslist. So when my local dealer told me he could get me a CL2079 for the price he got. I snapped it up. I'm on Social Security. I'm only allowed to make so much money a month playing. I live at poverty level. In 1973 a truck hit me head-on and broke my neck, both arms and both legs. I didn't walk for 4 years. Suffice it to say my self- confidence is nil. I called these guys snobs because I was a little angry. I saved for this guitar for 6 months.
Edited by AdamasW597 2012-06-28 5:51 PM
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Location: Texas | "But I'm kinda tired of feeling like an a-hole for buying a Korean guitar." I think you came to the wrong place for pity. I am not sure anyone is even going to throw a box of Kleenexs at you. You're the reason for your pity party. My dad told me not to start something I couldnt finish. Take off the skirt. Other than Ovations, I am sure most of us share the commonality of being an @$$hole, in one way or another. BFD.
Edited by jay 2012-06-28 5:50 PM
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | I'm more of a man and twice as tough as you you potty mouthed little twit. I don't have to worry about talking to you or Slipkid again. I know what kind of people you are. |
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Location: Flahdaw | "You snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings"- Monty Python |
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Location: Ohio | My point was tht not everyone has the fuds available to buy the guitar of their dreams. I have a Celeb dlx, RRBY that I play out with and I get paid. I've been complimented on teh look and sound of the guitar. DO I want something better? YES, but there are a lot of other things that come first. Like the 100K of medical bill I incurred 2 years ago. House paymen, but not right now.ts, car payments, food. You know the IMPORTANT stuff. Maybe someday |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | I think the thing that bothers me is the attitude that a person from another country can't make a guitar as good as we can. That is baloney. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Wait... wait.... If I can't know who you are, how can you possibly know just exactly who I am?
.
I can appreciate your medical and financial situation and I do wish you well in that regard.
However.... If you won't let me play the "I've been fortunate in life and I'm grateful for it" card it does not seem fair that you can play the "unfortunate" card at will.
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I'm glad you are pleased with the purchase of your new guitar. For some reason you feel the need to not only strongly defend your choice but to make sure we all know how misguided and uninformed we all are in our own opinion.
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And I did not call or refer to you as an "a-hole"... I said "arse".... which is more than just a minor difference when used is such context.
Edited by Slipkid 2012-06-28 6:50 PM
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Location: Upper Left USA | I don't contend that the Pacific Rim Manufacturer's CAN'T make a better guitar. They'll build exactly what you ask them to. I am pissed that FMIC lowered the bar and did not use the ANS Neck technology and tooling that already exists. Nor did they move toward a disolvable glue so that the Necks could be reset. Epoxied Neck Guitars are made to be disposable... That's a frikkin Marketeering move... and I'm saying they are the Arses because that attitude violates every "American", "Yankee" and "Craftsmanship" nerve I have. Both of them...
Edited by MWoody 2012-06-28 7:18 PM
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | I apologized. I was under the assumption that there were other reasons I was an a**. Remember. I didn't call you anything. |
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Location: Ohio | Honestly AdamasW597 I don't know why you take offence everytime someone laments over Ovation moving offshore. I have never seen these"snobs"on here that you are reffering to. You said the same thing in a thread I posted a few months back. Who cares what anyone says or thinks about offshore guitars. You love them, that all that should matter to you. It's not like someone is talking about one of your children. Nobody can make you "feel like and a**hole" for buying your guitar. If you choose to "feel like an a**hole" for buying your guitar thats on you. |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | I don't feel like one. I was called one. I took offense with that. I apologized for the other. As far as feeling bad about my guitar. I've got a great guitar and that's all I need. I don't take offense everytime either. Trust me. I just don't want someone calling me names. OK. Besides this has nothing to do with you. I like this page. Leave it at that. |
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Location: Ohio | You're right this has nothing to do with me. To be honest I regret responding contributing to the derailing/hijacking of this thread. That was a mistake. Best regards, AdamasW597
Back on topic. I had a pretty lengthy conversation with the Kaman sales rep at Sweetwater during Gearfest. He said he's had been with Kaman for about 20 years. He told me that when Fender came in, the USO's didn't have a chance. He said that Ovation was loosing several hundred dollars on every OSU they sold. He said that Ovation had done it like that, and made up the loss on the imports, for years in order to keep the factory running and keep the people working. He said he thought it was "good PR" He said that once fender looked at the books it was all over but the crying.
For what it's worth, that's what he told me.
Aaron |
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Location: Orlando, FL | Woody, I understand how you feel completely! The change is sad. But it was a hell of a ride for us Ovation Lovers! And there are obviously a lot of great unappreciated USA ovation out there, just waiting for us! I can't believe that 1537 for $500 on craigslist! What a deal!
Put me down as a snob, I'd rather have a USA made Ovation than an AX or TX any day. As for anyone else play what YOU like and don't give a sh!t what anyone else says!
Edited by Designzilla 2012-06-28 9:41 PM
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Okay... Now I am crying!
Whadda Deal. I am checking under my seat cushions...
But I don't think that I have the change for that.  |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | Nice Oma! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | aaronharmon - 2012-06-28 7:23 PM
Back on topic. I had a pretty lengthy conversation with the Kaman sales rep at Sweetwater during Gearfest. He said he's had been with Kaman for about 20 years. He told me that when Fender came in, the USO's didn't have a chance. He said that Ovation was loosing several hundred dollars on every OSU they sold. He said that Ovation had done it like that, and made up the loss on the imports, for years in order to keep the factory running and keep the people working. He said he thought it was "good PR" He said that once fender looked at the books it was all over but the crying.
For what it's worth, that's what he told me.
Aaron
That's what I heard a long time ago from several reliable sources. Any of those that made the visit to the factory and had basic math skills realized there was no way they could actually build a guitars the way they did and make any profit on it. Just count up the people that touch each guitar during the build process for about an hour and multiply it by even a crappy hourly wage and you've come pretty close to well over (depending on model) what the wholesale on the guitars are. That doesn't count costs the run the factory, benefits, materials... just the basic number of people x 1 hour each x $ some hourly wage = more than most of us ever paid for a guitar. Ok, not everyone spends an hour on every guitar, but others make up for it like the finish guys who paint... wait.. paint... wait... paint.. wait... etc.. so it all works out.
Fender is NOT out to kill the brand. If it got to the point where the custom shop couldn't keep up with the orders..... we'd see Ovation production lines restarted in a heartbeat.
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Location: Upper Left USA | "paint... wait.. paint... wait... paint.. wait... etc..."
And that's why we have "Polane", aka, splatter textured paint.
Maybe I just need to switch addictions over to something like motorcycles? |
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Location: Ohio | They should just hire OMA to do all the painting |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | amosmoses - 2012-06-28 10:23 AM
Bob...Agreed. It has been a long dry spell since DaveKel left.
I'm at a loss as to what I have to do with this man's thread? FWIW, I check in on this forum a couple times almost every day. The friends I've made here have taken to emailing me when they want to talk. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Dave, lighten up. I think Jay was just poking you with a stick, just like I poke Moody and Weaser every chance I get. I told my daughter ever since she was young, "no one can get to you if you just laugh with them...it drives them crazy that they can't piss you off."
You were great for the OFC for a while there, with your crazy stories of partying naked in the van with Gregg Allman and all. Fun times... |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | darkbarguitar - 2012-06-29 10:33 AM
Dave, lighten up. I think Jay was just poking you with a stick, just like I poke Moody and Weaser every chance I get. I told my daughter ever since she was young, "no one can get to you if you just laugh with them...it drives them crazy that they can't piss you off."
You were great for the OFC for a while there, with your crazy stories of partying naked in the van with Gregg Allman and all. Fun times...
Whoah... when did I say "partying naked" with Greg Allman? It was just a ride in his bus a five hour drive to next town in Texas where he was playing. In that short time, I witnessed a guy with an inhuman capability to ingest quantities of drugs that would have OD'd five normal men! And BTW... I have lightened up and seen the errors of my early arrogant ways on here. I've lightened up so much Dark Bar began sending me friendly messages... the acceptance don't get more final than that. |
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Location: Flahdaw | No, I'm pretty sure you were naked with Greg. Remember, he dedicated "Midnight Rider" to you? |
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Location: south east Michigan | Who the heck is "DarkBar"??? |
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Location: Flahdaw | Brad Durasa - 2012-06-29 11:55 AM
Who the heck is "DarkBar"???
Some idiot that used to post here. I think he was really a woman that used to go by the name "HeatherDD" |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | His shirts were really feminine, but definitely not a double D. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Tell the truth guys...
All Y'all really do enjoy this kind of stuff!
Love ya man... |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Dave: Well Stated!
Slipkid: +1 on that... |
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Location: Ohio | At least this thread woke a few people up... Been quiet herer lately! |
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Location: Colorado | Just lurking too...
I still like all kinds of guitars. Customs, assembly lines, etc. I'm just one who owns very few at a time and plays those. I like homegrown and offshore...many are great...many are not. Funny.. in the hands of the best players they all sound pretty good. Prof, I too have long had the ability to make decisions - I'm with y'a man. But the board transcends those instruments into friendships - a real gift that cannot be taken away. Heavens - what you've seen played on TV - over the last 50 years is amazingly varied...since the 70s I could never predict what acoustic McCartney would show up with in concert...he played his share of roundbacks - and he can play anything he wants. As Miles implied, I hope they come around again..fact is those of us who have been around a while just love guitars...original slotheads, FD-14s, 1537s, the Taks, the Martins, the Collings, and many of us were even amazed that an Academy should not sound as good as it does. Even Brad Davis oohed an ahed when Beal showed up with that Dreadnaught.
I'm not sure but most of us who've gotten to the events probably do not exactly remember what Mishka, Slipdkid, Prof or Bobbo were playing as they sang their songs - but we had great times...and the common core was Charlie's inventions, coupled with his son's benevolence, Al's persistence, Dave's willingness to own them all no matter how cutting edge - and tell us about them, Cliff's pipes (vocal) and Temp's cutting yet accurate techniques and assessments. The are so many more...maybe we need an event to pull some of us together again....prof, stephen...maybe we can have an event here in the Rockies.....and maybe we'll get hear Adamii mixed with Ukes - and it'll sound ike music again. |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | @elginacres Props to you!
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Location: Tennessee | I'd find a way to make it to the Rockies to see and play with everyone.
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Location: Boise, Idaho | If there's anything left after the fires, Colorado would be good. It's been 2 years since the Black Hills jam. I really enjoyed that and wished we had spent at least another day. The offer to host a jam in Idaho is still open, but I realize that it's a long way from everyone but me. |
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Location: Texas | Nice to see a couple of long-time members who have been quiet for a while jumping in on this thread. (Greetings Brad and Elginacres.)
Anyone who has ever had a beloved old guitar that became unplayable because there was no practical way of doing a neck reset should understand MWoody's original "grieving." (Think: "Bowl Bend")
Conversely, many of us have guitars we bought more than 30 years ago that we still love and play today, and some of those guitars have required a neck reset (or two) along the way. Eventually, guitars need a neck reset, it's a relatively-common "repair." If you can't reset the neck, (and you don't play slide), then you would basically have an unplayable guitar. I think that is why some folks refer to the AX/TX O's as "disposable." That doesn't mean they aren't good guitars, but I think it's a valid concern if you hope to get many years of service out of your guitar…
…but on the other hand, if they changed the necks, we'd probably find some other reason to complain about them… 
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | standing - 2012-06-30 2:56 PM
…but on the other hand, if they changed the necks, we'd probably find some other reason to complain about them…
Yeah... They are made in KOREA!
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Location: Flahdaw | ...
Edited by BobG 2012-06-30 7:05 PM
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Location: Phoenix AZ | If you had to pick one, which would make you happier ...
1. Fender moves Ovation production to Asia, maintains custom shop and repair facility in CT, keeps the staff intact and builds Guilds
2. Fender shuts the CT doors and says adios Ovation and pick up your pink slips on the way out
The premise is that the US made Ovations didn't sell well enough to sustain the production. But how well is Guild doing? I've bought 4 and truly love them, but I haven't exactly seen them flying off the shelves either and the ones I do see are the foreign built ones. Basically the same story as Ovation.
My conclusion is that Fender wants to maintain one good old USA acoustic guitar as a money losing prop just to look red-white-and-blue. They tossed the Ovation-Guild coin and it came up Guild. Sucks for us, but if the coin had come up Ovation you'd be reading these exact same threads over on the Guild forum. That's life.
As said before, I ain't gonna change it and my days on this earth are too numbered to worry about it any more. Excuse me while I grab a (US made) guitar, crack a beer and start pre Independence day festivities.
Edited by Standingovation 2012-06-30 7:42 PM
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Location: Ohio | Ovation imports are better than no Ovations at all. That is for sure. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Well ALL Ovations in Australia are imports. Even the US ones.
And I'm an unashamed USO snob. Wouldn't have an Asian O if you gave it to me. (unless it was one of those rare Japanese ones - but only if you gave it to me.
I still strongly think that Ovation would've had a better reputation if ONLY the American ones had 'Ovation' on the headstock - put 'Celebrity' on the Asian ones. A lot of folks on this board swear by their new Asian O's (and C's.) I'm not one of them. I'll take a used USO over a new AX to TX any day... and still probably pay less.
Edited by muzza 2012-07-01 12:45 AM
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | Sometimes the quality of a product is not strictly tied to the place where it is built. There are wonderful examples around the world without resorting to Asia.
The Ovation built in the early years of the brand had a high build quality. Already those of the '80 suffered from the increase of production. It is not necessary to be a snob to appreciate a wonderful top glued to a bowl. If we like that on the label it says made ??in the USA (I'm in the list....) is one thing, but this has nothing to do with the inherent quality of the instrument.
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Location: Ohio | muzza - 2012-07-01 1:43 AM
Well ALL Ovations in Australia are imports. Even the US ones.
And I'm an unashamed USO snob. Wouldn't have an Asian O if you gave it to me. (unless it was one of those rare Japanese ones - but only if you gave it to me.
I still strongly think that Ovation would've had a better reputation if ONLY the American ones had 'Ovation' on the headstock - put 'Celebrity' on the Asian ones. A lot of folks on this board swear by their new Asian O's (and C's.) I'm not one of them. I'll take a used USO over a new AX to TX any day... and still probably pay less.
Amen brother! |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I'd find a way to make it to the Rockies to see and play with everyone.
-----
bobbo
+1.... |
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Location: Texas | MusicMishka - 2012-07-01 7:45 PM
I'd find a way to make it to the Rockies to see and play with everyone.
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bobbo
+1....
Schedule permitting, I'd find a way to make it to the Rockies to hear Mike & Bobbo play.
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Location: Marlton, NJ | Same here. |
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Location: Colorado | Heck - I'd travel to southwest Va...to hear mike play...curiously prof and stephen haven't chimed in...it's summer - they will...heck fugot lives in Boulder.....this will take a little planning - look for a potential interest survey in a few weeks - for an event several months out from now --- gotta think location, timing, space, freedom to jam, flexibility for family members, plumbing (veterans know), theme - clinic - professionals to help us, guitar storage...etc. Oh yeah...very few of us are made of money...so we better consider it. My one requirement we all come as guitar players and guitar lovers....if it is a roundback emphasis event - great...but other instruments are welcome......that's how you learn folks.... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | The Prof was talking about a ski weekend awhile ago, but didn't get much response. Maybe not many skiiers. We have a trip to Ireland in September, but I can work around most other things. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Probably needs a designated gathering thread if you guys are serious |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Mark, we need to find a location and discuss logistics, then set a date and create a post in the gathering page. I know you're busy after school starts, as am I. Ideally, the value season is after the aspen turn and before the ski season kicks in. Are we thinking Denver or the mountains, maybe something close like Winter Park or Keystone? |
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Location: closely held secret | elginacres - 2012-07-02 7:44 PM
Heck - I'd travel to southwest Va...to hear mike play...curiously prof and stephen haven't chimed in...it's summer - they will...heck fugot lives in Boulder.....this will take a little planning - look for a potential interest survey in a few weeks - for an event several months out from now --- gotta think location, timing, space, freedom to jam, flexibility for family members, plumbing (veterans know), theme - clinic - professionals to help us, guitar storage...etc. Oh yeah...very few of us are made of money...so we better consider it. My one requirement we all come as guitar players and guitar lovers....if it is a roundback emphasis event - great...but other instruments are welcome......that's how you learn folks....
Your talks at school assemblies must be interesting events.... |
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Location: Jet City | Depending on the when, I'd be up for a jam in the Rockies |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | We've got a friend in Fort Collins that used to work on the reservoirs that supplied Greeley and had access to cabins up in the hills above the Poudre River. I don't know if any of those places would be available, or if they haven't burned up, but they would be cool places for a jam. Easy access from Ft. Collins. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | There are also lots of places in Estes Park with single unit cabins. Estes Park would also allow easy access into Rocky Mountain National Park for a day trip to the top of the world. The trick may be to find something that also offers a nice, secure meeting facility that would fit all of us for a jam. How would Friday - Sunday, October 5-7 work? |
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Location: Utah | Tentatively I am in for Colorado Oct 5-7. |
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Location: Colorado | John - I try to speak to the students en masse very little...but when I do, rest assured it is entertaining - and not grammatically correct. Stay thirsty my friends. |
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Location: closely held secret | That's comforting to know, Mark.
As much fun as it sounds, unfortunately I have other plans that particular weekend. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Oct 5-7 is the Guild factory tour weekend I believe. Even though it is a Guild Factory for all intents, it is still a great chance to see the factory and all of our old friends who used to build Ovations. Unfortunately it is limited attendence and all the spots available have been taken by the Guildites...... In a self promoting vein............. this Friday, July 6th I will be playing with my bandmates from 8-12. Would love to see any of my Colorado buddies......
Edited by stephent28 2012-07-03 9:38 PM
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Location: Colorado | I'll show up stephen |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Cool...the old bald guy playing bass will be me (but you already knew that!) |
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Location: Nashville TN. | I probablt bought my last new ovation the shiny bowl reissue |
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Location: closely held secret | Stephen, you know I'd be there, but I've got company coming that night. |
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Location: Right now? | "Break a leg" tomorrow, Stephen! Have fun! I am certain the audience will enjoy your performance!
Willa |
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Location: Flahdaw | The audience will REALLY enjoy it if he does happen to break a leg.
Edited by BobG 2012-07-05 5:39 PM
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | heh heh....thanks John. I know you would! |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Damn! Finally got back here and the fun's all over. ;-)
Hope the gig went well Stephen
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | If I could save the money. I'd love to hear you all play. That would be great to put faces with the names. |
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Location: Colorado | Saw The Fog last night (Stephen's band). Nice to see the older generation rocking out (I can say that - I'm in the same generation). Hope you get over the crud stephen - Mark |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Thanks Mark....I thought we kinda sucked on Friday compared to how we usually sound but the crowd seemed to like us and that is all that really matters. I will say that it is very hard to play accurately when your head is all fuzzed out with a fever and you feel like crap. |
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Location: Jet City | I always think I suck, I bet you kicked bootay. Wish I coulda been there.
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Triggered by another post - grieving