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Location: michigan | I believe I have priced this guitar for a quick sale. Mint condition. Number 17. Just doesn't get the attention it deserves. Get a highly collectible, highly sought after ovation. The one that started it all. If you get it, let me know you are an OFC member. Need the funds quick otherwise, I would wait and try and get more.
Good luck
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130869991433
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Location: Texas | Folks, this is a steal on a guitar that is stunningly beautiful and produces an acoustic response that, imo, has not been exceeded by any other Ovation production guitar (save the original) since 67, It shouldn't last long. |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | Hi Jay,
Great price on a great looking guitar.
Could you answer a couple of questions?
Is this an acoustic-only?
Is the bowl hand-laid? (1st gen?) |
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Location: michigan | Yes this is the acoustic only . It is hand laid fiberglass, like the originals. I guess the originals would be considered 1st generation. I think everything about this guitar is like getting a brand new original balladeer. In some ways a lot better. These are amazing instruments. Never regretted not finding an original as the originals will likely need work. THere are lots of fans/threads on this site of these guitars. I dont play it as much as I thought as I always find myself needing to plug in. Didn't have the heart to put in a pickup as I have an adamas and a glen campbell reissue when I need to do that. This guitar is like new. Not a Mark. thought it would have sold by now but someone will be really happy with this one. Just need funds more than guitars at the moment... Still have some ovations in the fold but I will miss this one. |
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Location: SoCal | These are really great guitars and that price is practically giving it away. If this were a year from now, I'd probably be jumping all over it. Whoever buys this guitar is going to be thrilled..... |
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Location: New Hartford CT | I can't believe someone hasn't bought this yet. Great price, excellent guitar.
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Location: Denver, CO | +1 to all the above. Wonderful guitar! |
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Location: Central Massachusetts | I have GOT to stop window shopping... |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | rhoadsscholar - 2013-03-16 11:57 AM
Yes this is the acoustic only . It is hand laid fiberglass, like the originals. I guess the originals would be considered 1st generation.
FWIW, there were two generations of hand-laid bowls.
The 1st generation were hand-laid over male molds, then vacuum-bagged to remove all excess resin. These were produced only between 1966 and 1968.
The 2nd generation were hand-laid inside female molds. These were produced between 1968 and 1981.
The 1st gen bowls are thinner than the 2nd gen.
Starting in 1982 to the present, all Ovation bowls were molded using prepreg polyester. (SMC)
The VL-series utilizes hand-laid, vacuum-bagged bowls like the 1st generation. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | DanSavage - 2013-03-16 10:20 PM
The VL-series utilizes hand-laid, vacuum-bagged bowls like the 1st generation.
VL bowls should not be mentioned in the same thread as the K-1111.
VL bowls are made like the Asian bowls that were originally rejected by Kaman.
I have owned an old 1111, 1112 and two old 1121's (still have one of them)...
NONE of those bowls flexed. Please refer to the thread about Ashtabula, OH bowls and the folks at Zehrco Giancola Composites. They tried-out offshore bowls, but the were not strong enough...
Therefore, they flexed.
Scroll down a bit to read the email from Zehrco
BTW-- Zehrco no longer has a photo of an Ovation guitar on their website like they did in January 2012.
The VL series is just an effort to make a Celebrity seem desirable.
They are not USA made, and I doubt that they have Hand-Laid bowls.
They do not claim "Hand-Laid" in their ads or descriptions... They just say "Vintage".
(I just watched Rick Hall on YouTube... He never sez "Hand-Laid" or "USA" when talking about the VL)
If anyone wants to conclude that they are hand-laid bowls... Feel Free. They never say that.
 
Hang-on to your USO's...
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | And now I can quit counting my pennies...
I think that this one has Left the Building.
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Location: Central Massachusetts | arthurseery - 2013-03-17 4:44 AM
I think that this one has Left the Building.
But not the family. This one will be coming home to New England. |
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Location: New Hartford CT | dvd nice score - you will love this guitar, it's the one that's left out and played all the time. Mine doesn't see any case time at all. The classic features of the early models are all there. Sound wise and visually it just works. |
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Location: michigan | Thanks for the purchase. Glad it is staying in the OFC. I'll get it shipped out Monday and forward tracking info. Congrads. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | Great deal on a great guitar! |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | arthurseery - 2013-03-17 12:52 AM VL bowls should not be mentioned in the same thread as the K-1111. VL bowls are made like the Asian bowls that were originally rejected by Kaman. I have owned an old 1111, 1112 and two old 1121's (still have one of them )... NONE of those bowls flexed. Please refer to the thread about Ashtabula, OH bowls and the folks at Zehrco Giancola Composites. They tried-out offshore bowls, but the were not strong enough... Therefore, they flexed. Scroll down a bit to read the email from ZehrcoBTW-- Zehrco no longer has a photo of an Ovation guitar on their website like they did in January 2012. The VL series is just an effort to make a Celebrity seem desirable. They are not USA made, and I doubt that they have Hand-Laid bowls. They do not claim "Hand-Laid" in their ads or descriptions... They just say "Vintage". (I just watched Rick Hall on YouTube... He never sez "Hand-Laid" or "USA" when talking about the VL ) If anyone wants to conclude that they are hand-laid bowls... Feel Free. They never say that. Hang-on to your USO's...
The ad copy for the Pro Balladeer 1627 VL on their web site, it says, in part:
"...Ovation’s new 1627VL features a shallow “Vintage Lyrachord®” body made from the same interwoven glass and hybrid resin materials used on early Ovations from the 60’s and 70’s..."The ad copy for the Pro Balladeer 1771 VL says: "...At the heart of this retro-style guitar is Ovation’s “Vintage Lyrachord®” Roundback®, made from the same materials used on early Ovations from the 60’s and 70’s. Interwoven layers of glass filaments are bound together by hybrid resins..." As you can see, the ad copy on the web site does say more than just 'Vintage', as you assert. I've sent an email to John Budny at KMC asking for clarification of what the ad copy of these guitars really means. Other folks who've owned early Ovations say that their hand-laid bowls flexed and that later SMC bowls were heavier and stiffer. Please point out where in the email it says that the bowls failed the strength test because they were too flexible.
Edited by DanSavage 2013-03-17 10:08 PM
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Location: Texas | Hey Dan... "Other folks who've owned early Ovations say that their hand-laid bowls flexed" I'm sitting here playing #485 and I am not sure where the "other folks" were pushing, but I can tell you that there isn't any flex on the bowl, that I can tell. jay |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | How many different ways do they have to AVOID saying "Hand-Laid-Bowl" before people understand that the VL series are Not hand-laid-bowls.
When they listed the 40th Anny K-1111 it states that it is a Fiberglas Cloth Bowl.
and it don't Flex. 
BTW-- This page is courtesy of the Wayback Machine at http://archive.org/web/web.php
Edited by Old Man Arthur 2013-03-18 12:49 AM
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I have owned over a dozen original shiny bowls. They do not bend. |
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Hi Dan,
On this model the bowls are molded overseas somewhere. They are not the same as
the hand laid bowls used here for the Adamas line but are similar since they use
the woven cloth layup method.
John Budny
Customer Service Manager
Ovation, Guild, Hamer, Guitars USA
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | arthurseery - 2013-03-17 10:42 PM
How many different ways do they have to AVOID saying "Hand-Laid-Bowl" before people understand that the VL series are Not hand-laid-bowls.
When they listed the 40th Anny K-1111 it states that it is a Fiberglas Cloth Bowl.
Since you seem to be an expert on composite construction, maybe you can answer a couple of questions?
What is the difference between 'fiberglass cloth', 'interwoven layers of glass filaments' and the 'woven cloth' John Budny mentioned in his email?
Exactly how are woven cloth fiberglass pieces like the Ovation bowls constructed? IOW, what is the 'woven cloth layup method'?
FWIW, I just tried pushing on the back of my contour bowled Ovation and I can indent it.
Edited by DanSavage 2013-03-18 10:05 AM
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Location: Central Massachusetts | Okay, I'm confused, Dan and Art, are you talking about the VL series, or the K1111 reissue? Which guitar(s) are being referenced in the email quoted from John above? The VL's or the K1111-RI? |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | dvd - 2013-03-18 9:13 AM
Okay, I'm confused, Dan and Art, are you talking about the VL series, or the K1111 reissue? Which guitar(s) are being referenced in the email quoted from John above? The VL's or the K1111-RI?
Art is saying that the VL-series is not 'hand-laid' from woven fiberglass cloth in the same fashion as the K1111-RI or the 1st and 2nd gen bowls from the 60s and 70s.
Here's my original email to John:
Hi John,
We're having a discussion about Ovation bowls on the Ovation Fan Club forum and
I was wondering if you might answer a couple of questions about the VL bowls.
Are they hand-laid from woven fiberglass cloth like the early Ovation bowls?
The ad copy for the 1627 VL says:
"Ovation’s new 1627VL features a shallow “Vintage Lyrachord®” body made from the
same interwoven glass and hybrid resin materials used on early Ovations from the
60’s and 70’s."
So, I'm interested to find out what 'interwoven' means.
Are these molded in the USA or overseas?
Thanks,
Dan
As I noted earlier, there were two different techniques used for the 1st and 2nd generation bowls. The current 'hand-laid' bowls made at New Hartford uses the 1st generation, i.e.: vacuum-bagged over a male mold. (confirmed with John via email a couple of months ago) The 2nd gen bowls were 'hand-laid' inside a female mold.
Edited by DanSavage 2013-03-18 1:12 PM
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | First... I don't want you to feel that I am being a jerk towards you, Dan.
(at least no more than my normal charming self)
More like I am being a jerk towards Fender.
*[DVD-- Dan and I are discussing the VL bowls, not the K1111RI bowls]
As to the VL bowls...
When they first came-out folks on the OFC were commenting on whether the original bowls Flexed or not.
It was about that time that the topic of whether Korean O's had USA Bowls came-up.
That is when I contacted Zehrco... Part of their response was this:
As I understand, at one time, the Asians did try to produce their own
bowl, but failed the acoustics and strength testing require by Ovation
USA.. Lyrachord, is a very special material for Ovation Only.
From which I deduced (correctly it seems) that the VL bowls are made in Asia.
Once again... the specs were sent to Asia.
And Once again... the Asians factory could not duplicate the original bowl.
Only this time the marketing geniuses determined that they would somehow say having a Flexible Bowl is a Good Thing. (how often have you wished that your Ovation bowl was softer?)
Also, the Zehrco product gallery no longer contains a pic of an Ovation guitar...
http://zehrco-giancola.com/gallery.html
Take from that what you will... Hand-made bowls for USA Customs... Asian bowls for Asian O's?
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Location: Central Massachusetts | Ah okay that's what I figured, as everything I had seen said the K1111 reissues use hand laid bowls.
We might need to have Tina Turner throw the two of you into the Thunderdome to bottom out on the asian art of bowl making. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | OMA,
Moody needs to sub contract with you, good eye!
It's like making Coca-Cola with High Fructose Corn Syrup vs. Pure Cane Sugar... |
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Location: Texas | "It's like making Coca-Cola with High Fructose Corn Syrup vs. Pure Cane Sugar.." Are you sure that wasn't Dr. Pepper, back when they sold it in hand laid bottles?
Edited by jay 2013-03-18 3:33 PM
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | arthurseery - 2013-03-18 11:54 AM
From which I deduced (correctly it seems) that the VL bowls are made in Asia.
Once again... the specs were sent to Asia.
And Once again... the Asians factory could not duplicate the original bowl.
First, you jumped on my statement that the current VL bowls are hand-laid. I've supplied information that shows that, regardless of where they're made, the VL-series bowls are, in fact, hand-laid from woven fiberglass cloth.
If you still disagree, then please provide information that shows what materials and manufacturing techniques are used to make them.
FWIW, I've been molding fiberglass parts for the last 10-15 years as a part of my other hobby/side business, RC model airplanes. I've made plugs, master and production tooling. From these, I've molded and sold, literally, hundreds of parts from both male and female molds and have even done some vacuum-bagging of parts. So, when it comes to molding fiberglass parts, I know a little bit about the subject.
Second, you'll have to define what you mean when you write, 'original bowl.'
The 1st generation bowl was hand-laid woven fiberglass cloth over a male mold, then vacuum-bagged to squeeze out the excess resin. (AKA - Lyrachord, 1966-1968)
The 2nd generation bowl was hand-laid woven fiberglass cloth inside a female mold with no vacuum-bagging to remove excess resin. (AKA - Lyrachord, 1968-1981)
The 3rd generation are/were polyester pre-preg, i.e.: roving fiberglass mat premixed with partially cured polyester resin and molded in a heated compression mold. (SMC, AKA - Lyrachord, - 1982-present)
The 4th generation are polyester pre-preg, i.e.: roving fiberglass mat premixed with partially-cured polyester resin and 35% phenolic glass spheres and molded in a heated compression mold. (SMC, AKA - Lyrachord GS, - 2005-present)
So, when you write that the 'Asian factory could not duplicate the original bowl', to which of these are you referring? |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | dvd - 2013-03-18 12:57 PM
Ah okay that's what I figured, as everything I had seen said the K1111 reissues use hand laid bowls.
We might need to have Tina Turner throw the two of you into the Thunderdome to bottom out on the asian art of bowl making. I'd be happy to move this discussion over to my "The History of the Bowl" thread. |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | amosmoses - 2013-03-18 1:28 PM
Are you sure that wasn't Dr. Pepper, back when they sold it in hand laid bottles?
Hand-blown, not hand-laid. |
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Location: Central Massachusetts | DanSavage - 2013-03-18 4:57 PM
dvd - 2013-03-18 12:57 PM
Ah okay that's what I figured, as everything I had seen said the K1111 reissues use hand laid bowls.
We might need to have Tina Turner throw the two of you into the Thunderdome to bottom out on the asian art of bowl making. I'd be happy to move this discussion over to my "The History of the Bowl" thread.
Perhaps you would find a broader audience by doing so, but don't move anything on my account. I was just trying to be funny. To me, arguing the composition/construction of the VL bowls is like arguing about which fake Rolex has better workmanship. |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | dvd - 2013-03-18 2:20 PM
Perhaps you would find a broader audience by doing so, but don't move anything on my account. I was just trying to be funny. To me, arguing the composition/construction of the VL bowls is like arguing about which fake Rolex has better workmanship.
With the exception of the Adamas and customs, isn't the general consensus that pretty much all Ovations these days are the equivalent of fake Rolex watches?
Edited by DanSavage 2013-03-18 4:39 PM
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Location: Texas | "Hand-blown, not hand-laid" When you get down to that part of Texas, hand-blown is not a process, rather than 2 options available by the entrepreneurs on Waco Drive on any given evening. Maybe that is why I went with laid...my bad.
Edited by jay 2013-03-18 5:00 PM
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Location: Central Massachusetts | I can't speak for others, but that's my position at least in terms of new kit. Which is why I'm excited to have scored this reissue and so many other great guitars on the secondary market here.
Don't get me wrong, your (and Arts) research on the historical processes with respect to USA models is good stuff. But I wouldn't waste a lot of time extrapolating this into the offshore models. That's just me. Carry on! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | No matter how the bowl is made, the 40th RI Balladeer is a great guitar and that was an incredibly good price. I put my Bill Lawrence soundhole pickup in mine the other day. I hadn't used it in years. Wow, did it ever sound good over the amp. But for just my ears, which are the only ones that matter 99.9% of the time, the 40th gets played as much or more than any of my guitars. It's still one of those that when I see it hanging there I just have to grab it and play it. |
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Location: SoCal | The 40th is one of the best guitars ever built by Ovation... |
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Location: Flahdaw | amosmoses - 2013-03-18 5:59 PM
When you get down to that part of Texas, hand-blown is not a process, rather than 2 options available by the entrepreneurs on Waco Drive on any given evening.
Do they let you "double-down"? |
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Location: Texas | LOL...I knew that post would draw you out. |
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Location: Central Massachusetts | Received the RI today (intact! Thank you, FedEx and rhoadsscholar!)
Holy crap, it sounds good! Head to head with the 1537 good. |
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Location: Texas | Truly an Ovation that has "it" Congrats! |
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Location: SoCal | dvd - 2013-03-21 1:54 PM
Received the RI today (intact! Thank you, FedEx and rhoadsscholar!)
Holy crap, it sounds good! Head to head with the 1537 good.
Yup. I've got an 87C, a 1537, and an A braced Legend. Which one sounds best? Aw man, don't push me..... |
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Location: michigan | Glad it worked out and stayed in the family. Needed to pay the taxman. Take care |
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40th Anniversary Balladeer Shiny Bowl for sale