|
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Hi all,
I've narrowed down my options to a ADII and a C2079LX Custom Legend. I've not played them back to back, only the ADII vs. Contour Bowled Legends 2077LX.
I'd be ordering either new from my dealer. Any comments on differences between the ADII Bowl and the Deep Contour on the 2079LX. Can anyone who has played both comment on any differences or preferences (Op Pro vs. Op Pro Studio, Bowls, etc.).
Any comments appreciated as I'm looking to order one shortly. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 4413
| You can't go wrong with the CL. But I'm no expert. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Thanks. I understand the the ADII is basically a old CL with modified neck. Can anyone comment on the bowls. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | The neck is sexy: the unfinished "oil rubbed" natural feel that Al specified. Sleek and fast. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | PS the deep bowl is what you would find on a CL. I note that the 1769 ADII has a special "silky" acoustic sound... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Dobro, since you have a ADII, can you comment on its bowl vs. the Deep Contour of the Custom Legend.
Other than the neck treatment, and bowl differences and downgraded preamp (I assume) in the ADII, what are the real differences in playability, sound, etc.
I like the ADII's neck, but wonder about the older bowl design and preamp vs. the LX Deep Contour and Op Pro Studio.
Lastly ,any thoughts on resale/long term value between the two. Not that I'm thinking that way, but wonder how they hold up relative to one another historically. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Well, I have never played a Contour Bowl. Here is my opinion of the ADII: Acoustically it is sweet and silky, a bit thin on the high end though. Plugged in it does not deliver. Now, take into consideration my context: I must compete with Jeff's Elite which is basically a wood-top Adamas. The ADII can't compete with my 74 Legend (1117) fitted out with a Fishman pickup. If you are playing alone, for yourself, you may never know what I'm complaining about. I corresponded with John Budny at the "Mothership" (CT Ovation factory) and he sent me a PreAmp upgrade: I must say that the OP STUDIO was much better in the ADII than the OP PRO, however it seems electroically incompatible: the booster switch doesn't work, the battery light stays on and there is a hum. My band made Jeff Burns (NostrAdamas)shares my opinion of the ADII.
Bottom line: it is a beautiful guitar (best blinged-out Ovation I've seen). It has a gentle acoustic tone and a decent plugged-in tone. If you play hard and in a band, if you need the upper octave to really "shout", then try something else. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Thank you Dobro. That clarifies things and adds some confusion.
I assume your old Legend non C/A has a deep bowl. Do you generally find non C/A Ovations to project better than C/As?
What type of Elite is Jeff playing. BTW, checked out your site and 3 videos on YouTube. Nice playing! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Gosh, I have forgotten the number... Gotta ask Jeff. It is an early 80s model, equipped with the synth pickup (a al Al D.) Sorry, but I'm not sure what C/A means. Clarify.
Thanks for the praise. Much appreciated. Do you play this sort of thing (Frevo, Spain)?
Back to topic: My all-acoustic 1117 has the best projection and tone of any guitar I have held. The Adamas is amazing but very different in quality. My current metaphor is "Dark Chocolate Sound". I love it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Although I have not played the CL-LX, I have an AD-II and think it is a very special guitar.
IMO, real or imagined, the deep bowl makes a difference. I'm not yet sold on the idea that the contour bowl can give the same unplugged sound. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Well, the Deep Contour is pretty Deep. The other issue is the LX bracing and the Op Pro Studio preamp. I played a Legend LX with DC and it seemed to project pretty well.
I'd really like to play both back to back but it seems its not possible in my area as few shops stock any Ovation USA models and I've only seen one ADII around.
Dobro, I started playing classical, and now do play flamenco so Frevo is up my alley. As noted, before, I'm also involved in a flamenco guitar line that Paco helped as an advisor/mentor. If you caught his 2006/2007 world tour, all the promotional photos featured the guitars. Al also has a couple with venetian cutaways, but that predated my involvement (the project has been going on for a few years). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Arc Angel, Here is the big question, I think: How do you plan to use your ADII? Plugged, unplugged? Solo? In a band? If so, what room do you anticipate playing? We all have such subjective, yet radically differing experience. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | The Ovation will be my only acoustic electric. I've got a few electrics, and a bunch of classical flamencos. I see playing it both unplugged but primarily for its electric capabilities. Gigging it possibly as well.
I play nylon string primarily on the acoustic side, but also play a bunch of electric as well, so this would fall in the middle. More for jazz/fusion and some bluesy stuff. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15674
Location: SoCal | The only thing I can add to this discussion is that to me, round hole O's sound better to the player. Multi hole O's project out more. My GC RI sounds better to me when I play it, over my 1537. And when I hear other's play my 1537, I'm always amazed at the sound I hear. I can't hear that tone when I play it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Thanks moody. That's very interesting. Are you talking about acoustic only projection or when plugged is as well? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15674
Location: SoCal | Well, think about it. When you're playing acoustic only, you're only hearing whatever the guitar puts out. If you're plugged in, you're hearing it from where ever the speaker is.....
However, I seem to have taken this thread in a center hole vs. multi hole area. I apologize for that in that the question was regarding the difference between 2 center hole guitars.
The difference in the bowls would be mostly one of comfort as the deep bowl and the contour bowl have about the same volume. I think the defining factor would be the top bracing, scallopped X vs. A. And that is very subjective. Different guitars sound, well, different, to different people. Dobro has a mid 70's Legend that he swears by. I have a mid 70's Legend that I swear at. Different guitars.
I prefer the A braced guitars. I just like that sound best. But others here would disagree. There's no right or wrong answer. You've got to try them both and decide for yourself.
The one thing I do believe is that you can't go wrong with either guitar. They are both excellent instruments.
Oh, and I like the larger bling on the ADII better than the new style smaller bling on the CL..... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Different guitars sound, well, different, to different people. Paul, that's truly profound. I always knew you weren't the shallow person everyone else claims you are. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Thanks moody. I also realized that the bracing issue comes into play. I wish I could play both back to back but it doesn't appear possible.
The LX Legend I played with Deep Contours seemed to project a bit more based on my experience with the ADII played earlier that week, but it could be subjective.
Can you characterize the difference in sound between the A and Scallaped X braced guitars?
Also, I'm very interested in the round vs. multi sound hole debate, since this will be my first Ovation, I'm more inclined to a round by habit, but I am open to a multi sound hole as well.
Thanks for the help so far. Simply great forum, and refreshing not to have any bashing prevalent. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2005
Posts: 486
Location: North Carolina | I faced the same choice a couple of years ago and posted the same question here. Based on the responses, I bought the LX. I have no complaints with the choice, but still have never played the ADII.
The Ovation dealers to which I have access seem to carry only the low end stuff, but will take special orders. That being the case, I bought mine from Al and paid what I believe was a fair price. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | F.A.,
Why did you choose the LX? What swung you in that direction? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | Along the lines of what Moody said, the sound is different depending upon where your ear is. I don't necessarily agree that the centerholes project more, they just project from different places. I thought my Ute was poorly balanced, with a bias toward bass, until I sat across from someone else playing it and then I realized I had never heard it without my ear being closer to the bass side holes. If you plug it in and sit in front of the amp, the sound should be fairly balanced on any guitar, but you can adjust that with the equalizer. Then it becomes a comparison of the preamps.
I don't think anyone can give you a valid opinion on which guitar is better. All we can do is give opinions of how things sound to us. That is very subjective, although it seems a little more uniform than our opinions on what looks best. That being said, I've bought several Ovations and 2 Adamas guitars based solely on the opinions of this board and they are all great guitars. I couldn't tell you what type of bracing is on any of them. I do know that I like the deep bowls better, but that's as far as I go with my abilities to hear the distinctions. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | I have been really BOTHERED by the unresponsive upper octave on my ADII: the high E and B strings have nowhere near the kick above the 10th fret that I get on my 1117 Legend or the 1581 single-sider (uplugged at least).
Can anyone tell me why? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15674
Location: SoCal | It's an interesting question and I would wonder if all the braces were firmly attached. I have trouble believing, having watched him play, if Al D. would play a guitar with weak B & E strings in the upper registers. It sounds like a problem with the individual guitar. IMHO.......
Is it weak acoustically, or plugged in? Or both? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Both. Jeff (NostrAdamas) has the same problem. I think this guitar is very different from what Al actually plays. Also, Al DiMeola ALWAYS seems to have both direct peizo AND a quiality microphone on him. That makes a BIG difference.
A few nights ago I struggled mightily with an imbalance in my 1581: the high end was very tinny by comparison to the boomy, feedback-y bass. I think it is time I take a class in EQ 101.
The ADII, however, is weak "up there" acoustically in a way that the Adamas is NOT. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15674
Location: SoCal | Boy, I'd be tempted to call Kim or John and talk with them about it. It's not a problem you should be having.
When you decide to take EQ101, let me know and I'll attend with you. I've got sound guys at my church trying to play with my eq, and I'm finally telling them to just set me flat and I'll adjust at the guitar.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Wow. Very strange that you'd be experiencing the weakness in the B and E strings. Have you ever experienced a comparable problem in another acoustic? Have you ever played another ADII?
I wonder if any other owners can comment. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15674
Location: SoCal | You know, Dobro, I think you need to take a weekend and drive over to Brad's in Michigan and play his ADII, comparing it to yours...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2005
Posts: 486
Location: North Carolina | Originally posted by Arc Angel:
F.A.,
Why did you choose the LX? What swung you in that direction? The responses I got from the guys on the board. I'd never played either, wasn't going to without ordering one, so I asked the opinions of those who'd know. Seems to have worked out, and I liked working with Al. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Maybe I just play too hard: In a tune like "Frevo Rasgado" you have to reach pretty high and hit a few notes hard. That'll let you know what a guitar can deliver. The Adamas II 1581-5 has a fine high end acoustically, I just need to learn how to bring it out when plugged in. The AD II does not have this virtue. I guess I gotta consider doing the drive! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15674
Location: SoCal | Man, you waste your time going above the third fret. There's no money up there.
Seriously, call Kim or John and see what they say. And it might just be worth it to make the trip to Brad's...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | dobro,
That is really quite strange. Given an A brace, Deep Bowl and basically a CL configuration, I wonder why your ADII would have this problem. The top, bracing, etc., aren't exclusive to this model. Other than the neck treatment (should be a non issue) and boost, what's the difference over a contemporary (non LX) CL? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2004
Posts: 256
Location: chicago | I concur with Dobrov in regarts to a bit of thinness with the AD11,believe me DiMeola is my hero so I bought the guitar site unseen thinking if Al plays it its got to be the BEST!I have tried everything and unlike Dobrov I can EQ a guitar but its NO comparrison to my 96'768-x Elite. Jeff |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Jeff, are we talking about the same guitar, or do you have another ADII which has the same problem? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2004
Posts: 256
Location: chicago | Same one Dobrov has same year same electronics same op pro studio upgrade.....we have done over 50 gigs together and not once has either of us felt good enough about the adii sound to play it live....what gives???? bothers the heck out of me cause I promised the wife its the last geeetar Id ever need. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Canada | Wow! Thanks, two ADII evidencing the same problem starts to steer me in a different direction. While your online ;-), can you comment on the difference between the Elite multi sound hole configuration and that of a single sound hole. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15674
Location: SoCal | You guys need to contact Kim or John at the factory..... |
|
| |
Comparison between 1769-ADII and Custom Legend C2079LX?