Posted 2015-06-18 6:37 PM (#511679) Subject: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: September 2006 Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Okay, I just noticed this...
See how it drifts-off towards the treble side?
This might have been going on for a while, but I just noticed it.
And like MIB pointing-out the the TRC is off-center on my K1111-RI...
Now that I have noticed it, I cannot NOT notice it.
It still plays fine, no buzz and the intonation is almost perfect.
So, what caused it and how do I fix it?
Posted 2015-06-18 7:11 PM (#511681 - in reply to #511679) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: June 2012 Posts: 2332
Location: Pueblo West, CO
What gauge strings do you use?
I did a little reading on the subject and it's usually caused by using unbalanced strings, which is to say that the bass side has more tension than the treble side. This causes the bass-side strings to exert more tension which pulls the neck out of alignment.
One possibility would be to put medium to heavy strings on the treble side and light to extra light strings on the bass side. Then let nature take its course.
Posted 2015-06-18 7:19 PM (#511682 - in reply to #511679) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: January 2009 Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw
That just doesn't sound right, otherwise a LOT more guitar necks would twist given a few years. I wonder if it's a bad piece of wood (even tho it's old) and thru temp/ humdity changes it just kinda warped?
Posted 2015-06-19 2:49 PM (#511702 - in reply to #511701) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: December 2004 Posts: 572
Location: Denmark
merlin666 - 2015-06-19 2:02 PM
Is this not what truss rod adjustments are supposed to address?
Truss rods dont twist, they bend.
If no cracks or change in sound or playability have appeared recently my guess is that this has been under ways along time and that you just have not noticed it before. It looks like the string height is reasonable and it sound very well in the video. But I understand the aesthetic issue. I second the idea of asking the guys at the Mini Mothership to hear their judgement.
Posted 2015-06-19 3:01 PM (#511703 - in reply to #511702) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: March 2008 Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D.
OK, OMA, now's my chance to do something for YOU for a change!
Take the strings off and then re-string it backwards. Put the bass strings on the treble side. Put a heavy piece of cardboard over the nut so the heavy strings don't mess up the string slots. Tune it up. Tighten the truss rod a bit. Put it back in the case and wait three or four weeks. Re-string it the right way and put the truss rod back where it belongs. If it still isn't right, repeat the process and wait longer this time.
I have done this and it works. With a solid body it's easier and quicker because you can really tighten the strings, but on an acoustic you have to be careful you don't pull the bridge off.
I can't believe I just gave away my "secret". I have had tech guys from other shops around here scratching their heads after they told customers they needed a new neck, and then they see the same guitar after the customer brought it to me.
And by the way, even years later the neck will still be straight.
Posted 2015-06-19 3:16 PM (#511704 - in reply to #511679) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: December 2004 Posts: 572
Location: Denmark
Cool trick there, CanterburyStrings. How should one tune the guitar. According to the string charts (http://www.daddario.com/DADProductDetail.Page?ActiveID=3769&ProductID=74) and others the per string tension is not overly different. Don't you think that tuning the 1st string (now in the 6th position) should be lowered some steps?
Also, do you think that such twist could be result of a hard handed truss rod adjustment where one has held against the body instead of the neck when twisting the nut?
Posted 2015-06-19 3:28 PM (#511705 - in reply to #511679) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: March 2008 Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D.
I tune it to pitch but backwards. With the heavier strings on the treble side there will be a higher tension there. I suppose it might be quicker to just leave the treble strings tuned lower, or even left off completely. Check every couple of days.
And no, I don't think the truss rod or the way someone adjusted it has anything to do with it. Most often a neck twist comes from a fall. It may have fallen over at some time before OMA owned it.
Posted 2015-06-19 5:09 PM (#511708 - in reply to #511703) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: September 2006 Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
CanterburyStrings - 2015-06-19 1:01 PM
Tune it up. Tighten the truss rod a bit. Put it back in the case and wait three or four weeks. Re-string it the right way and put the truss rod back where it belongs. If it still isn't right, repeat the process and wait longer this time.
Why tighten the truss rod? and... How much is "a bit"?
Can I just use the old strings and swap them around?
Would it be better to use new heavier strings?(EJ17's) or would that just be a waste?
Like you've seen it does play well now.
And you KNOW that it will drive me nuts to wait a month, don't you?
I know that I have guitars that I have not played in a month... but not intentionallly.
Posted 2015-06-19 5:27 PM (#511711 - in reply to #511679) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: March 2008 Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D.
Sure, you can reuse the old strings.
I think tightening the truss rod gives the wood a head start moving. I'm not really sure why it works. I discovered this when Jarrett's strap let go and his SG hit the floor. The neck was twisted badly. I tried the maneuver with the strings and not much happened. I tightened the truss rod a bit (a quarter turn a day for three days), then let it sit. It worked and it's still fine. That was about six years ago. Then I had an Ibanez bass hit the floor when the slat board let go. It was really really bad. The same method worked on that and that too is still perfectly straight after years.
Like I said, on acoustics you have to be gentler. On the solid bodies you can really tighten the strings. On an acoustic I wouldn't go much higher than tuned to pitch.
But if the action is fine and it doesn't give you any trouble, why bother? I guess it depends on which will drive you nuts more - waiting a month or knowing the neck is twisted.
Posted 2015-06-20 3:02 AM (#511723 - in reply to #511711) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: December 2004 Posts: 572
Location: Denmark
CanterburyStrings - 2015-06-19 5:27 PM
But if the action is fine and it doesn't give you any trouble, why bother?
Yes sometimes ignorance is bliss. One such time is the embarrassing moment when I pull out my not-so-exclusive Yamaha bass and plug it in. But when I play it all desires for high end and pricey custom shop models road worn and NOS disappears, because my Yamaha bass just totally suits me and sounds good. This bass also is the longest neck i have on any stringed instrument. If I hold the body still while applying torque - just with my bare hands - to the head I can see the neck twisting a bit. Totally without being brutal. Just to say: guitar necks are sort of flexible.
If You are in a hurry, OMA, You could maybe try to remove strings and loosen the truss rod and give the truss rod thread a tiny bit of grease and then retighten and proceed as proposed by CanterburyStrings.
Posted 2015-06-21 11:48 PM (#511789 - in reply to #511679) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: September 2006 Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Okay... I decided to give it a shot.
So I removed the strings and the TRC.
I oiled the Truss-Rod Nut with Mineral Oil (it's what I had).
I also spread mineral oil on the fingerboard while I was at it.
Normally I ain't so sloppy...
I Loosened the TR nut enough to get the oil in on the threads.
I only put 4 strings back on, in reverse.
I tightened the Truss Rod a bit.
I tuned the strings up a half-step from standard tuning and put it in it's case.
We shall see what happens in a while.
Posted 2015-07-18 2:32 PM (#513570 - in reply to #511679) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: September 2006 Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Nope... I did it on 6-21-15 according to the note in my guitar case.
I do look at occasionally. I looked at it just now.
The neck is still twisted, just not as bad.
Soon I put strings on it correctly and give it a try.
Posted 2015-07-18 6:10 PM (#513573 - in reply to #511679) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: September 2006 Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Okay, the neck is still twisted. Maybe not so much now.
So I put Silk-n-Phosphor strings on it, and adjusted to truss rod.
I will let that settle-in for a bit... If it's all good I will put the TRC back on and call it done.
It still plays nice, so I am happy.
BTW-- It is 98° outside, so I am hiding indoors in air conditioned comfort.
So I figured that I could work on guitars, change strings and such.
Posted 2015-07-19 11:23 AM (#513590 - in reply to #511679) Subject: Re: Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
Joined: December 2004 Posts: 572
Location: Denmark
Well - depending. "Now .. ago" since thread start. But it had been with more spirit had I referred to the time where You closed the case - the guitar case that is :-) - on june 21st.
Neck Twist... What caused it and how do I fix it?
