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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | I'm looking for a direct box or DI, that will allow phantom power to go through to my OpPro and OpPro Studio preamps.
I have an active direct box, but the green light on my OpPro doesn't light up.
Is there such a beast?
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | I was hoping that someone here must use DI boxes?
The BATT/PHANTOM light on my OpPro goes green when I have a direct line to my mixer with phantom power on, but stays red when I have a DI box in between.
I'm wondering if I have the wrong type of DI. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | I use one of these (1404 Aphex Punch Factory) with my bass and it's got phantom power. It's my favourite pedal and I'll never sell it. (I remember saying something like that about my '05C...) http://www.aphex.com/products/legacy/1404-punch-factory/ Although I've never gigged the acoustic through it, a friend bought one based on what he heard mine do and he raves about it - uses it with his electric guitars. They're discontinued but they DO pop up on feeBay occasionally. They've been superseded by these, http://www.aphex.com/products/legacy/punch-factory/ but I have no experience with the newer model. Or you could try and find a used one of these. (Also discontinued) http://artproaudio.com/discontinued_products/product/tube_pac/ I saw one at my local Cash Converters last year. OR!... one of these would be sweeet! http://gearstation.com.au/products/sm-tubebox-500-series-tube-mic-pre-with-optical-compressor As you can see, I like my optical compressors. If you're going to pay for a DI box, you may as well make it useful.
Edited by muzza 2015-07-08 3:51 AM
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | Thanks Muzz.
The one I have is from Art Pro Audio: http://artproaudio.com/active_di/product/dualxdirect/
But the phantom power appears to stop at the DI. I would love it to power my preamps. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Ah! The problem you're having may have nothing to do with the DI box. I remember reading something here about some of the XLR equiped preamps weren't actually setup to run on phantom power. And I seem to recall that the cable had to be earthed a certain way? And I could be dreaming it all up...? |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | If I read the specs right for that unit, it is POWERED by phantom power. It doesn't PROVIDE phantom power. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | I don't know why that double posted...
Edited by muzza 2015-07-08 6:01 AM
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | Muzz, you make some great points, but I have an Ovation 'activation cable' on the input and output of the DI. (I guess I should have said that earlier.)
[As an aside, to quote Ovation "The XLR "activation" cable is an XLR-XLR configuration that makes the shell (handle)-to-pin 1(Ground) connection." I've done this mod to most of my XLR leads.]
I've tried it with the Ground Lift switch both in and out.
It makes me wonder if the isolation the DI provides is blocking the phantom power. What puzzles me is that many condenser microphones require phantom power, and will often be connected via a DI.
So it probably gets back to your point, the pin 1 to ground connection is not getting through the DI. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | You didn't read my second post. I looked at the specs of your DI box and found that it is POWERED by phantom power. It doesn't PROVIDE phantom power. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Banjo, the two modified XLR cables may cancel the modification out (too tired to think that through). Could you try one modified, one normal?
Some Ovation preamps can be powered by phantom power, but all mine are VIPs which can't. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | F@ck! Isn't ANYBODY reading my posts? THAT DI BOX WILL NOT PROVIDE PHANTOM POWER. RTFM! The DUALXDirect''s active circuitry is powered by phantom voltage from the OUTPUT connections or by an internal 9V battery, when external power is not available. When powered by a battery, it draws less than 7.5 mA which should provide more than 100 hours of operation with a new battery (alkaline recommended). If phantom power is available, then the DUALXDirect will automatically draw its power from the external source.
Edited by muzza 2015-07-08 10:14 AM
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Location: NW Washington State | muzza - 2015-07-08 10:09 AM
F@ck! Isn't ANYBODY reading my posts? THAT DI BOX WILL NOT PROVIDE PHANTOM POWER. RTFM!
Reading the manual for the Aphex 1404, it's not clear that it PROVIDES phantom power. It might just RECEIVE phantom power like other boxes. http://www.aphex.com/resources/pdf/1404_PH_Manual.pdf |
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Location: Colorado | OK...I will ask the silly question...what are you trying to accomplish? Are you just trying to save on battery life?
Usually...if you are using a DI, you will use the 1/4 output of the guitar...go to a DI, then, the DI will transform the signal to the lower impedance and balance the signal - and then XLR takes you to the board or snake. Use the other 1/4 on the DI that is paralled to run to an amp if needed. If the DI requires power (active), then the power is provided by the board or the powered splitter. If you use the XLR on the guitar phantom power is provided by the board (or perhaps a powered split in large venue applications...why then go through a DI?...run it straight to the board without the DI. If I am missing something let me know...I've played a lot of places...albeit a while ago...but never have I run XLR into the guitar - and then into the direct box... |
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Location: Jet City | had me scratching my head too Mark.
why is there even a DI involved when you have an XLR out? You just plug direct to the snake/board |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | The main reason that I'm using the DI is to give my OpPro a bit more gain. It's noticeably quieter than my OpPro Studio preamps. It would also be handy to run off phantom power and save battery.
I have two of each, so I'll swap them around and see what I get.
As I mentioned above, condenser mics need a power supply, but I don't have one to try at the moment.
According to Shure's website "All condenser microphones need to be powered: either by batteries in the microphone or by phantom power (cf. Glossary p. 61) provided by a mixer." http://www.shure.co.uk/support_download/educational_content/microph...
Thanks every one for their contributions.
Edited by BanjoJ 2015-07-08 6:10 PM
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Location: Colorado | OK - you are wanting more gain.
IMHO goosing the preamp signal between the board and the guitar via an active direct box is not the best way to go...it will get noisy and wonky at best. I think what you are experiencing is the OP-ProStudio has more gain in an of itself....at least I think so based on Damon being able to swap out pre-amps at his house at the PNW gathering - and doing some A-B-ing. The OPPROStudio is the outlier here with a very hot signal...not a bad thing...but as Damon demonstrated it is unusually hot...and had to to pad it down some to make it equivalent to the others he was used to.
If for some other reason you need more gain out of the XLR output....a great Mic-Preamp is the way to go...perhaps needing to get it from -10dB to +4dB. In this case I would back off the OPPROstudio to match the gain of the others...Yes Condensers need power...the board provides that phantom power...not thru a direct box...straight from the board.... If you need more volume - after that...it is amps and speakers...IMHO...Damon...am I missing anything here... |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | Thanks elginacres.
One of the gigs I go to, PA supplied, has trouble getting enough volume out of my Ute with its OpPro. So I thought taking my own DI might help. But its probably easier to just put in the OpPro Studio. I'll try that tonight when I go there.
I had assumed that mics go through a DI box, but it looks like I got that very wrong. DIs are only for instruments it would appear. From what I've been reading, the purpose of a DI box is to convert the high impedance single of a guitar, bass, or keyboard output to a microphone level signal. The Ovation preamps with XLR output already do that.
Thanks again to everyone for their input.
So much to learn.
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Location: Jet City | Mark, I think you're right on the (pardon the pun) mark.
I'm not sure why the topic of powering a condenser mic came up. A condenser mic again would go straight to the board if the board has phantom power built in, or you'd have a mic preamp if the board didn't. The mic preamp would have xlr ins and outs that would go to the board/snake. Again, there's no DI box needed for a condenser mic (or any mic with an xlr).
A side note, I assume you're not playing very loud. Condensers are typically used more for recording than live applications. Dynamics are used more in live settings. These aren't rules, but it's the norm.
AND YES... the OPPro Studio is hotter than any other preamp I have. It completely screws with the settings that the rest of my Ovations are dialed in at. At first I thought I had a defective Studio, but after A/B-ing it with one from Mark's WTA, I realized it was not my unit, but the Studio preamp in general.
I replaced mine with a standard OPPro. If you like the Studio, I'd suggest doing as Mark says. Dial the Studio preamps back to match the others.
Sorry to tell you this Banjo, but it looks like you don't need to go buy anything at all.
One more side note, the Takamine DI is a different beast entirely. It has a boost built in and will also power a Cooltube preamp. But that was built specifically for that preamp. To my knowledge, Ovation doesn't have a similar product offering. I should probably sell mine since I don't have a Tak anymore, but I still use it for it's boost features. It also has an effects loop built in so you can utilize effects even though you're using an XLR.
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Location: Jet City | Looks like I'm a slow typer. To add to what you just said Banjo, I think you need to setup to the sound of your standard OpPro, then dial back the Studio when it's in use. If I'm reading it right, you're setting up you sound with the Studio, then when you switch to the standard OpPro, it's weak. Do the opposite. That's what I would do, but I have several other preamps (Optima, OP-24, stacked Fet, etc). If you can put a Studio in all your guitars, then problem solved
Edited by Damon67 2015-07-08 7:16 PM
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | Thanks Damon.
With the gigs I go to, which are small gigs in small rooms and are not loud, it's quite common to find people who don't plug their instruments in. So we need a couple of condenser mics. All of my instruments have pickups and preamps, which is what I prefer, but some people still prefer the sound of a mic'd guitar.
I've just stuck and OpPro Studio into my Ute and will try it tonight. I've found with the Ute and its OpPro, that some of the sound guys can mix it perfectly, and some have problems. I've never had that problem with my 2081 and its OpPro Studio. But then again it may be the luck of the draw with the sound guys I come across.
I'm gradually building up my own PA, so having a DI isn't a bad thing. |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | damon67 - 2015-07-09 12:09 PM
Looks like I'm a slow typer. To add to what you just said Banjo, I think you need to setup to the sound of your standard OpPro, then dial back the Studio when it's in use. If I'm reading it right, you're setting up you sound with the Studio, then when you switch to the standard OpPro, it's weak. Do the opposite. That's what I would do, but I have several other preamps (Optima, OP-24, stacked Fet, etc). If you can put a Studio in all your guitars, then problem solved
We both posted at the same time.
I go to quite a few gigs at different places with different PAs and sound guys with different abilities each month. I know what to do with my own PA, but I normally use the PA supplied.
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Location: Colorado | good luck...takes a while to learn this stuff...keep playing and building your knowledge base. Especially with recording...many prefer the sound of a mic'd guitar...it can add fairy dust to the sound...and yes...who is mixing matters...let us know if you find the studio gets you the desired result....if you are like me...in 6 months ...perhaps something else works even better...even if it is old equipment... |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | elginacres - 2015-07-09 12:39 PM
good luck...takes a while to learn this stuff...keep playing and building your knowledge base. Especially with recording...many prefer the sound of a mic'd guitar...it can add fairy dust to the sound...and yes...who is mixing matters...let us know if you find the studio gets you the desired result....if you are like me...in 6 months ...perhaps something else works even better...even if it is old equipment...
I have a gig tonight and tomorrow night. I'll post my results back in this thread.
Thanks. |
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Location: ms | I always use a DI playing live unless I'm doing a small gig with just my acoustic amp. I mostly use a LR Baggs Para DI or LR Baggs Venue. Without trying to talk all the tech talk that I'm no good at anyway the bottom line is if you have very far to between your guitar and the mixer you need a DI. Also I've found a good DI gives me so much more control over my guitar sound. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | All my acoustic amps provide XLR outs. My signal goes through a pedal board into the amp, and the XLR provides a signal to the house board. The sound engineers are always complaining that I have too much gain. |
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Location: Jet City | My setup is similar to yours Brad. Though I recently replaced the amp in the chain (AC60) with a Boss AD8 processor. 
Edited by Damon67 2015-07-09 8:02 PM
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | I did the gig last night. Had the OpPro Studio in - no output at all and the battery was OK. I was using the 1/4" jack not the XLR output.
I had the OpPro with me, and that worked - fortunately.
I tried them both with my own PA and the OpPro Studio was cutting in and out with both the 1/4" jack and the XLR. I took the preamp out of the can and put it back in and it was fine. It looks like it may not have been seated properly in the can.
I'll try again tonight. |
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Location: Utah | Not all Ovation guitars are wired for phantom power. The XLR board needs a specific configuration, which not all Ovations are provided with. So you may have XLR out, but not the ability to receive phantom power into it. On top of that, not all preamps can accept phantom power.
I am not sure it is safe to apply phantom power to a non-phantom power preamp. On of my preamps died while trying a bunch of swaps into various guitars, including running phantom power into one of them. The death may have been due to phantom power burning up the output stage of the preamp. So I advise proceeding with caution. |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | FlySig - 2015-07-11 11:51 AM
Not all Ovation guitars are wired for phantom power. The XLR board needs a specific configuration, which not all Ovations are provided with. So you may have XLR out, but not the ability to receive phantom power into it. On top of that, not all preamps can accept phantom power.
I am not sure it is safe to apply phantom power to a non-phantom power preamp. On of my preamps died while trying a bunch of swaps into various guitars, including running phantom power into one of them. The death may have been due to phantom power burning up the output stage of the preamp. So I advise proceeding with caution.
These preamps are fine with phantom power. The main problem was my misunderstanding of what a direct box does and what it's best used for. |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | BanjoJ - 2015-07-09 1:01 PM
elginacres - 2015-07-09 12:39 PM
good luck...takes a while to learn this stuff...keep playing and building your knowledge base. Especially with recording...many prefer the sound of a mic'd guitar...it can add fairy dust to the sound...and yes...who is mixing matters...let us know if you find the studio gets you the desired result....if you are like me...in 6 months ...perhaps something else works even better...even if it is old equipment...
I have a gig tonight and tomorrow night. I'll post my results back in this thread.
Thanks.
As I posted earlier, I had a problem with my Thursday night gig with regard to the preamp not seating properly in the can.
The gig last night, Friday, presented another problem. The PA didn't work at all, until after my set.
If my voice was as loud as my deep bowl guitars, I'm starting to feel that I should skip all technology.
Hopefully at the Sunday gig everything will work. But then again, maybe I should just stay home and play my guitar in front of the fire. |
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Location: Colorado | Fires provide nice ambiance - when the PA craps out |
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Direct Box advice