Dualing Parlors...
DanSavage
Posted 2019-01-24 11:16 AM (#546714)
Subject: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

And, so it begins.

This project is a re-top of the two 5741 parlor guitars seen below.

The one on the right is Jonmark's and the one on the left is mine.

His will get torrefied Adirondack and mine will get torrefied Englemann. Both will be A-braced with torrefied Adi spruce.

Both will get shell purfling, his probably abalone and mine maybe black MOP. His will have tortoise-shell binding and I'm leaning toward black on mine. I was originally going to do cream, but I think the black will compliment the black MOP better.

His will have the standard 5741 rosette. Mine will have an inlaid Custom Balladeer rosette. Both are seen below.



Lastly, I'm thinking about glossing my neck/head stock. His will remain stock.

Neither will be sunburst.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Patch
Posted 2019-01-24 11:26 AM (#546715 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4156

Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent

Well this should be fun to watch! Whoever gave you the idea to work on parlors.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-01-24 12:19 PM (#546716 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I started by removing the tops from both guitars.



That's when the fun began.

Ovation installed the purfling/binding in a non-standard way. Here's what the binding/purfling off these guitars looks like.



The problem is that they routed a slot that's deep enough for both the purfling and the binding. This leaves a full-depth groove in the body that's .125" (1/8") deep. The routed groove should only be .0625" (1/16") deep.

Here's what a standard binding/purfling groove should look like. The purfling is normally 1/2 the height of the binding, so a stair-step groove needs to be routed. As I noted above, the problem is that Ovation made the purfling the same height as the binding so the groove left behind is twice as deep as it needs to be. Ugh!



The simplest fix will be to glue some .060" thick purfling to raise up the inner portion of the groove so that it's level with the lining. Once these are glued and leveled, I'll be able to glue the top to the body which will overlap the filler purfling. This will allow me to route the top correctly later on.



Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-01-24 12:51 PM (#546718 - in reply to #546716)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Hey Dan... I changed my mind. Did you keep the old top?

Just kidding.
Here we go!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-01-24 1:13 PM (#546720 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Sure thing.

It's in a little rougher shape than before I started. It'll fit right into the current trend of distressed guitars. LOL!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d'ovation
Posted 2019-01-24 1:52 PM (#546722 - in reply to #546716)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 778

Location: Canada

DanSavage - 2019-01-24 12:19 PM

 The purfling is normally 1/2 the height of the binding, so a stair-step groove needs to be routed. As I noted above, the problem is that Ovation made the purfling the same height as the binding so the groove left behind is twice as deep as it needs to be. Ugh!

....

The simplest fix will be to glue some .060" thick purfling to raise up the inner portion of the groove so that it's level with the lining. Once these are glued and leveled, I'll be able to glue the top to the body which will overlap the filler purfling. This will allow me to route the top correctly later on.

Thanks for sharing this new project. The approach os using same height binding and purfling seems to be much simples than the stepped approach with extra groove and different heights. Why not simply use purfling of the same height as binding? Or if that's not available why not glue a strip of flexible dummy material behind the binding under the purfling?

 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-01-24 3:15 PM (#546723 - in reply to #546722)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

d'ovation - 2019-01-24 11:52 AM

Thanks for sharing this new project. The approach os using same height binding and purfling seems to be much simples than the stepped approach with extra groove and different heights. Why not simply use purfling of the same height as binding? Or if that's not available why not glue a strip of flexible dummy material behind the binding under the purfling?

Yeah, it's simpler for them to do when building the guitar from scratch. But, it's non-standard, even for Ovation and makes the re-topping process much more difficult because there are no off-the-shelf components that can duplicate the process originally used on these guitars. (read: cheap-out)

Purfling is only available in heights of just over 1/8" (.125")

What you suggest is not possible because both of these guitars are going to get shell purfling, which requires an upper groove of almost 1/4" deep. So, there would need to be filler pieces that deep. Any sort of filler piece would also need to be 1/4" deep.

Here's a pick of the deep upper groove required for the shell purfling.

Gluing the purfling now to act as a filler means that the top will be glued to it and the lining. Once that's done the normal grooves can be routed and the purfling/binding can be glued in the standard way.



Edited by DanSavage 2019-01-24 3:17 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DarenSavage
Posted 2019-01-25 12:36 PM (#546750 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 104

Oooh. High level stuff right here.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-01-25 10:01 PM (#546758 - in reply to #546750)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Yep.

The main difference between this and model airplanes is that there's no moneykote to hide the sins...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-01-27 5:46 PM (#546801 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Happy Birthday Dan.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-01-27 8:18 PM (#546804 - in reply to #546801)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, Jonmark.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-02-24 6:27 PM (#547147 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I jointed both tops, routed them for the rosettes and glued the rosettes in yesterday. These are now ready to take to the wood shop and have them thickness sanded.

I still need to route the sound hole in my top. I didn't do it yet because I need to round the inner hole and I want to do that after the top is leveled.

I had to route out the hole on Jonmark's guitar because of how the rosette is glued to the top. Basically, it rests on a shelf instead of sitting in a groove like mine is, and like most guitar rosettes are inlaid.



It would have been extremely difficult to route out the sound hole after the rosette was glued in. In the pic below you can see the under side of the sound hole. The stock sound hole in the top is a little smaller than mine, but since the inner edge of the rosette is what defines the size of the sound hole, it won't alter the tone.



One of the tasks that needed addressing is the way these bodies were routed for binding/purfling. I talked about that about above so I won't belabor it here.

I glued the binding filler pieces today. Here's Jonmark's bowl with the filler pieces being glued into place.

Here's mine, all ready to have the top gluing surface sanded level.

This filler piece extends the glueing surface for the top and leaves a .060" shelf for the binding and purfling.



Edited by DanSavage 2019-02-24 6:29 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-02-25 8:36 AM (#547151 - in reply to #547147)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Top of the page Bottom of the page
BCam
Posted 2019-02-25 11:35 AM (#547153 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 200

Dan, I wish you lived down the street from me so I could come over and look over your shoulder.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-02-25 5:01 PM (#547155 - in reply to #547153)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Bob,

It would be really boring. A lot of waiting while the glue dries punctuated by a few minutes of work.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Love O Fair
Posted 2019-02-25 6:34 PM (#547159 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1139

Location: What week?
@Dan - >>>It would be really boring. A lot of waiting...<<<

That all depends on what you have in your fridge.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-02 7:16 PM (#547189 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I got Jonmark's parlor top sanded, fit to the bowl and bridge located.



I got my parlor top sanded, fit to the bowl and bridge located. Unfortunately, I over-sanded the front of the top and burned through part of the rosette. Actually, all of the rosette, but the only part that is obliterated is the part next to the bass side of the fret board. Live and learn. Luckily, I sanded Jonmark's top second, so I knew to stop while I was ahead.

My top getting braced.



I'll pull this out of the gobar deck tomorrow, then epoxy on the aluminum reinforcement strips. I'll also glue down the braces to Jonmark's top and will be ready to start gluing tops Monday or Tuesday.

Jonmark,

On my guitar I'm moving the upper bout strap button from the bass bout to the treble bout. I've found it makes the guitar easier to play when standing up with a strap. Would you like me to move yours at the same time?

I'm planning to pull the old molly out and seal the old hole with epoxy. Then, drill a new hole on the treble bout and install a new molly. I'll texture the old hole during the finishing process.



Edited by DanSavage 2019-03-02 7:17 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
2wheeldrummer
Posted 2019-03-02 7:46 PM (#547190 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 488

Location: moline,illinois
Those are looking good Dan,sorry to hear about your rosette is there a way to touch it up??
Looks like an A brace design bet it will sound killer, is it easier to use the aluminum reinforcement strips I seem to recall you talking about fiberglass strips on older custom legends you rebuilt,thanks for sharing the pics I love following your work!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-03-02 9:28 PM (#547191 - in reply to #547189)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy

DanSavage - 2019-03-02 7:16 PM

Jonmark,


On my guitar I'm moving the upper bout strap button from the bass bout to the treble bout. I've found it makes the guitar easier to play when standing up with a strap. Would you like me to move yours at the same time?

 

Sounds good Dan. Played with that strap arrangement for many years.

Projects are looking great.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-02 9:29 PM (#547192 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

My top at bat and Jonmark's on deck, pardon the pun...

Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-02 9:34 PM (#547193 - in reply to #547190)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
2wheeldrummer - 2019-03-02 5:46 PM

Those are looking good Dan,sorry to hear about your rosette is there a way to touch it up??
Looks like an A brace design bet it will sound killer, is it easier to use the aluminum reinforcement strips I seem to recall you talking about fiberglass strips on older custom legends you rebuilt,thanks for sharing the pics I love following your work!


Thanks.

I thought about trying to touch it up, but they're MOP, so not much can be done other than remember that the thickness sander takes off more wood than I think.

Yep, A-brace. I use whatever the base guitar had on it. In these cases, it had the aluminum. You're correct, the older A-brace had the FG, but those got retired in favor of the aluminum. No doubt a production cost consideration. Both work equally well, but the aluminum would require less prep due to the perforations which give the epoxy some tooth.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
arumako
Posted 2019-03-02 9:52 PM (#547194 - in reply to #547189)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 869

Location: Yokohama, Japan

DanSavage - 2019-03-02 9:16 AM

I got Jonmark's parlor top sanded, fit to the bowl and bridge located...

I got my parlor top sanded, fit to the bowl and bridge located...

Thanks for sharing another exciting BFLG Project with the Master, Dan! Are you going to be tapering the tops for these; do you think torrefication negates the need for tapering?

Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-03 12:58 PM (#547198 - in reply to #547194)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

arumako - 2019-03-02 7:52 PM

Are you going to be tapering the tops for these; do you think torrefication negates the need for tapering?



Hi Ken!

Yes, I usually try to taper all the Ovation tops I do. Mine aren't tapered as much as the factory tops,, but they are tapered. The factory tops have about .020" taper. Usually about .120" at the top and .105" or so at the bottom. Mine are about half that. I like the tops to be about .110" at the top and .100" at the bottom for steel string and .100" top and .090" bottom for nylon strings.

Does it help with the tone? I couldn't say. Mine have so little taper that for all practical purposes they aren't tapered. If you measure them with digital calipers you can see it's tapered, but to the eye, it's pretty much invisible.

I've found the thickness itself has more effect over tone. Thicker tops sound stiffer than thinner tops. Paul's 1617 and Daren's 1528 both had torrefied Adi spruce tops that I sanded on the thicker side, about .120" top, .110" bottom. They both sounded a really good, but a little stiff when they were first built. After a year of playing the tops have loosened up and now they both sound great.

Now I thin them a little going down to .110"/.100" because I've found that it helps the guitar sound better right from the beginning.

Speaking of tops, mine is out of the gobar deck and getting its aluminum splints epoxied into place. I'll glue it to the bowl tomorrow.

Jonmark's top is getting braced. It'll get the same routine as mine and probably get glued to the bowl on Tuesday.



Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-03-04 10:40 AM (#547203 - in reply to #547198)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Exciting!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-05 12:09 AM (#547208 - in reply to #547203)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Jonmark Stone - 2019-03-04 8:40 AM

Exciting!


Yep! Won't be long now. I'm figuring it'll be ready to ship to you around the end of the month.

I got the top glued to my guitar. I'll glue yours tomorrow.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-03-05 4:37 PM (#547222 - in reply to #547208)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
No hurry, Dan. Too cold to ship up here for a while.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-03-07 6:35 PM (#547249 - in reply to #547222)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
We'll get squared up... then might have to get Paul to break it in until the Midwest gets tolerable again.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-07 6:55 PM (#547250 - in reply to #547249)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jonmark Stone - 2019-03-07 4:35 PM

We'll get squared up... then might have to get Paul to break it in until the Midwest gets tolerable again.


The top is glued onto your guitar now, too. Next job is to start preparing both guitars for binding/purfling.

Funny you should mention that because I was also going to suggest that Paul might like to have it come over for a sleep-over.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-07 6:58 PM (#547251 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

As an aside, I thought folks might like to see the RC model airplane kits I used to sell.

I recently re-activated my old site for historical/archival purposes, so they are available online once again.

See: Savage Light Industries - Radio Control Model Airplanes

Enjoy!

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-03-07 7:14 PM (#547252 - in reply to #547251)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Very cool kits.
My uncle flew F-4's.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Love O Fair
Posted 2019-03-07 11:49 PM (#547258 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1139

Location: What week?
I really dig that F-106. Nice job, and belated congratulations on your contest podium finish with it! Back in the day I remember them as big window rattlers on take-off, and always a front runner in the William Tell competitions.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DarenSavage
Posted 2019-03-08 12:18 AM (#547259 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 104

Nice to see the ol' Flanker again. I wish it was still around. At least I still have my F-4.

Savage Light F-$ Phantom II



Edited by DarenSavage 2019-03-08 12:20 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
moody, p.i.
Posted 2019-03-08 12:29 AM (#547260 - in reply to #547249)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15297

Location: SoCal
Jonmark Stone - 2019-03-07 4:35 PM

We'll get squared up... then might have to get Paul to break it in until the Midwest gets tolerable again.


I stand ready to serve if called upon......
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-08 10:10 AM (#547266 - in reply to #547252)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jonmark Stone - 2019-03-07 5:14 PM

Very cool kits.
My uncle flew F-4's.


Thanks. The F-4 is a very popular design, both in the full-size and in model form.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-08 10:11 AM (#547267 - in reply to #547258)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Love O Fair - 2019-03-07 9:49 PM

I really dig that F-106. Nice job, and belated congratulations on your contest podium finish with it! Back in the day I remember them as big window rattlers on take-off, and always a front runner in the William Tell competitions.


Thanks. It was a very cool model.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-08 10:13 AM (#547268 - in reply to #547259)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
DarenSavage - 2019-03-07 10:18 PM

Nice to see the ol' Flanker again. I wish it was still around. At least I still have my F-4.



I know what you mean. I miss my Platypus, too. Ditto for the F-106. In that way I'm glad I never built the F-111.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-08 10:14 AM (#547269 - in reply to #547260)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
moody, p.i. - 2019-03-07 10:29 PM

I stand ready to serve if called upon......


I'll send up a flare when it's ready for you.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
moody, p.i.
Posted 2019-03-08 2:11 PM (#547272 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15297

Location: SoCal
Lol! If it's meant to be, I'm up for it. Regardless, I'd like to see it before it goes back east. By the way Dan, my Legend is here next to my desk. Got Elixir 80/20 mediums on it. A cannon.......
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-13 12:29 AM (#547339 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I got the guitars routed and carved for the binding and purfling.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-03-13 5:50 PM (#547352 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Beautiful. Both.
Will I get a tin of Altoids with my shipment?
Kind of a Sweetwater vibe.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
moody, p.i.
Posted 2019-03-13 10:24 PM (#547356 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15297

Location: SoCal
This is when it starts to get really exciting because now you can start visualizing what it will look like when completed. Dan's done 2 guitar for me and when they both got to this stage, my heart really started lusting for the end result......
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Patch
Posted 2019-03-14 9:04 AM (#547362 - in reply to #547356)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4156

Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent

moody, p.i. - 2019-03-13 11:24 PM This is when it starts to get really exciting because now you can start visualizing what it will look like when completed. Dan's done 2 guitar for me and when they both got to this stage, my heart really started lusting for the end result......

I know what you mean Moody. I felt the same way, and mine was a parlor to boot!

These are looking nice Dan! It's a shame we're 3000 miles apart from a parlor comparison session.

(Would that be cool or what?! )

Top of the page Bottom of the page
arumako
Posted 2019-03-14 11:35 AM (#547365 - in reply to #547339)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 869

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2019-03-12 2:29 PM

I got the guitars routed and carved for the binding and purfling.


Beautiful work as usual Dan! I noticed that your Englemann top has a lot of silking while Jonmark's Adirondack seems to have less to none. Is that a trick of the lighting in the photo or is that characteristic of the different types of spruce? Really interesting and educational. Can't wait to hear how they sound! As always... thanks for sharing!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Love O Fair
Posted 2019-03-14 3:44 PM (#547372 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1139

Location: What week?
When Paul comes to pick up Jonmark's for its sleepover maybe you guys can sit down and record a cool duet dual duel for us. Is that doable?

PS: Patch, maybe you can do a triple play page on the calendar with yours in it, too.




Edited by Love O Fair 2019-03-14 3:50 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-14 4:47 PM (#547373 - in reply to #547352)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jonmark Stone - 2019-03-13 3:50 PM

Beautiful. Both.
Will I get a tin of Altoids with my shipment?
Kind of a Sweetwater vibe.


Thanks, Jonmark.

Sure, I can include a tin of Altoids, if you like.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-14 4:58 PM (#547374 - in reply to #547362)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Patch - 2019-03-14 7:04 AM

I know what you mean Moody. I felt the same way, and mine was a parlor to boot!

These are looking nice Dan! It's a shame we're 3000 miles apart from a parlor comparison session.

(Would that be cool or what?! )



Thanks, Patch.

We could, but for my money, I'm leaning toward the steel string editions.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-14 5:00 PM (#547375 - in reply to #547365)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
arumako - 2019-03-14 9:35 AM

Beautiful work as usual Dan! I noticed that your Englemann top has a lot of silking while Jonmark's Adirondack seems to have less to none. Is that a trick of the lighting in the photo or is that characteristic of the different types of spruce? Really interesting and educational. Can't wait to hear how they sound! As always... thanks for sharing!


Thanks, Ken.

No, you're correct. The Englemann has more silking than the Adirondack. That's one of the things I like about it. It also doesn't have a racing stripe, like the Sitka and Adi tops I've done before.

Me, too.

They both tap similarly. The Adi has a slightly lower pitch and the Englemann, a slightly higher pitch. But, they're both going to sound great.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-14 5:01 PM (#547376 - in reply to #547372)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Love O Fair - 2019-03-14 1:44 PM

When Paul comes to pick up Jonmark's for its sleepover maybe you guys can sit down and record a cool duet dual duel for us. Is that doable?



Dueling Parlors, for instance? LOL!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DarenSavage
Posted 2019-03-15 12:20 AM (#547382 - in reply to #547268)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 104

DanSavage - 2019-03-08 10:13 AM

I know what you mean. I miss my Platypus, too. Ditto for the F-106. In that way I'm glad I never built the F-111.

Here's a nostalgia pic for you. Su-27P Flanker & Su-27IB Platypus on the tarmac.

Su-27 Flanker & Su-27IB Platepus on the tarmac.

Those parlors are looking very pretty. I'm sure they're going to sound as good as they look!



Edited by DarenSavage 2019-03-15 12:32 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DetlefMichel
Posted 2019-03-15 6:30 AM (#547385 - in reply to #547362)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 588

Location: Muenster/Germany
Patch - 2019-03-14 4:04 PM

moody, p.i. - 2019-03-13 11:24 PM It's a shame we're 3000 miles apart from a parlor comparison session.

(Would that be cool or what?! )



ca.7000.............
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-17 4:43 PM (#547397 - in reply to #547382)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
DarenSavage - 2019-03-14 10:20 PM

Here's a nostalgia pic for you. Su-27P Flanker & Su-27IB Platypus on the tarmac.

Su-27 Flanker & Su-27IB Platepus on the tarmac.

Those parlors are looking very pretty. I'm sure they're going to sound as good as they look!



Yeah, those were pretty cool models. Sniff, sniff.

Thanks! They'll both sound good, but slightly different. I'm looking forward to hearing them.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-17 4:50 PM (#547398 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I got the purfling glued down to both guitars. Mine has black pearl and Jonmark's has abalone.

Purfling scraped down level with the tops.

Binding sized and glued into place. Mine has black and Jonmark's has tortoise shell.

I'll scrape these down tomorrow after the glue has dried. After that, I'll touch up the bowls, and then it's finishing time. (Yay!)

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Love O Fair
Posted 2019-03-17 11:11 PM (#547403 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1139

Location: What week?
Not that I know squat.. but can you instead opt to scrape the purfling AFTER you set the binding so as to match flush with both the top and the binding edge, or is the binding edge too far below the scrape level of the top?
>>>and then it's finishing time<<<
Ah yes.. my favorite stage. Eastwood 2k on these??





Edited by Love O Fair 2019-03-17 11:25 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DetlefMichel
Posted 2019-03-18 5:17 AM (#547404 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 588

Location: Muenster/Germany
WOW these are going to be wonderful guitars. If one of them would be mine I would have asked you to add an abalone purfling beside the fretboard extension, just like the Martin "45" style. Did you ever try that?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-18 11:42 AM (#547405 - in reply to #547403)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Love O Fair - 2019-03-17 9:11 PM

Not that I know squat.. but can you instead opt to scrape the purfling AFTER you set the binding so as to match flush with both the top and the binding edge, or is the binding edge too far below the scrape level of the top?
>>>and then it's finishing time<<<
Ah yes.. my favorite stage. Eastwood 2k on these??



The zipflex purfling is only .055" tall, so that's as deep as purfling channel can be routed. I've found it's better to have the top of the zipflex as close as possible to being flush with the top to minimize how much the shell needs to be scraped.

The BWB purfling is almost twice as deep, which means that about half of the BWB is above the top. This is too tall to get a good glue joint with the binding. So, the BWB needs to be scraped down before the binding is glued.

The binding is quite a bit taller that what is needed, so I use my Stewmac binding trimmer to get them close to flush. This minimizes the amount of scraping it needs.

Whether the purfling gets scraped to level with the top before the binding is glued or after, I've done it both ways. Plain purling is glued on at the same time as the binding, so they all get scraped at the same time. The zipflex has to be glued with CA, so the gluing technique is different.

Yes, these will be finished with Eastwood 2K.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-18 11:46 AM (#547406 - in reply to #547404)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
DetlefMichel - 2019-03-18 3:17 AM

WOW these are going to be wonderful guitars. If one of them would be mine I would have asked you to add an abalone purfling beside the fretboard extension, just like the Martin "45" style. Did you ever try that?


Thanks!

I know what you're talking about, but I've never done it myself. I like how it looks, too.

If I were to try, it would have to be on a guitar with a removable neck. It would be very difficult to nearly impossible on a guitar with the neck in place, such as these.

In fact, I'm really beginning to dislike replacing the tops on guitars with the necks in place. It's hard enough with plain BWB purfling. Making the shell purfling look good at the ends added another level of difficulty.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
2wheeldrummer
Posted 2019-03-18 5:43 PM (#547412 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 488

Location: moline,illinois
Don't those parlors have bolt-on necks I would have thought "97 " would be bolt-on,I suppose it's a bit of a Catch-22 if you take the neck off its easier to work on the top but then you have to do a neck-reset after you get the new top finished,Beautiful work all the way around and I love the silking on the Engleman Spruce.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-19 10:21 AM (#547417 - in reply to #547412)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
2wheeldrummer - 2019-03-18 3:43 PM

Don't those parlors have bolt-on necks I would have thought "97 " would be bolt-on,I suppose it's a bit of a Catch-22 if you take the neck off its easier to work on the top but then you have to do a neck-reset after you get the new top finished,Beautiful work all the way around and I love the silking on the Engleman Spruce.



They do not. By 82 or 83 Ovation had moved over to the bolt-on neck via the K-bar and the SMC bowl. These have the SMC bowl, but the truss-rod neck. The glue-on neck is a pain to work around when re-topping, but the TR makes for a lighter guitar.

I prefer to align the neck during the construction phase. By the time the guitar is finished, it's just a matter of attaching the neck, either by gluing or by bolting it on.

Thanks.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-03-19 10:33 AM (#547418 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Beautiful, Dan. Thanks for your hard work.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-19 4:53 PM (#547419 - in reply to #547418)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, Jonmark.

It won't be long now.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
arumako
Posted 2019-03-20 5:17 PM (#547427 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 869

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Beautiful! Jonmark Stone is in for a real treat! That's some fine detail with the purfling under the neck, Dan. How did you get that in so clean? Looking forward to a smooth finish!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-21 3:05 PM (#547436 - in reply to #547427)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
arumako - 2019-03-20 3:17 PM

Beautiful! Jonmark Stone is in for a real treat! That's some fine detail with the purfling under the neck, Dan. How did you get that in so clean? Looking forward to a smooth finish!


Thanks, Ken.

If you go back to Patch's Parlor thread there's step-by-step photos of how the shell purfling is glued into place.

Because the purfling is glued a piece at a time instead of all at once like the BWB purfling, this allows some time to fit the pieces into place before hitting them with the thin CA.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
DarenSavage
Posted 2019-03-22 5:45 AM (#547440 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 104

I mentioned to Dan it was hard to tell the difference between the abalone and black pearl binding in his earlier photos. Dan said it was because of the flash. He texted this flash-free photo. Youza!

Dueling Parlors they are!



Edited by DarenSavage 2019-03-22 5:49 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DetlefMichel
Posted 2019-03-22 6:59 AM (#547442 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 588

Location: Muenster/Germany
The abalone has the bling that I love but the black pearl with the tortoiseshell binding surely will look more elegant...the best would be to own both of them...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mark in Boise
Posted 2019-03-22 9:00 AM (#547445 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12655

Location: Boise, Idaho
Both are stunning and the binding is a perfect match for the rosette on each.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-22 11:14 AM (#547447 - in reply to #547440)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
DarenSavage - 2019-03-22 3:45 AM

I mentioned to Dan it was hard to tell the difference between the abalone and black pearl binding in his earlier photos. Dan said it was because of the flash. He texted this flash-free photo. Youza!

Dueling Parlors they are!



Yeah. From even a short distance it almost looks like my parlor doesn't even have shell purfling.

It's not until you get close and catch it when the light hits it that you can see the pearl.

Then, the black binding makes it look like it's not even there, like the top continues all the way to the edge.

I'm still getting used to looking at it. I like it, but it's really different from what I'm used to seeing on standard Ovations.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-22 11:17 AM (#547448 - in reply to #547442)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

DetlefMichel - 2019-03-22 4:59 AM

The abalone has the bling that I love but the black pearl with the tortoiseshell binding surely will look more elegant...the best would be to own both of them...

The abalone does have a lot of sparkle compared to the black pearl.

Interestingly, the tortoise shell binding of this thickness is almost black. Here's a couple of pics that show what I mean. You can see a few light brown spots, but mostly it's a very dark brown, almost black.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-22 11:27 AM (#547449 - in reply to #547445)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Mark in Boise - 2019-03-22 7:00 AM

Both are stunning and the binding is a perfect match for the rosette on each.


Thanks, Mark. I think so, too.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-23 6:06 PM (#547452 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Both guitars' bowls are touched up, tops and necks are masked and ready for finish.

I'll be spraying the first coats in the morning.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-24 10:04 AM (#547454 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

First coats of clear are on the tops.

The biggest take-away is the different personalities that are emerging.



Jonmark's top has really strong silking, which is surprising for Adirondack spruce. The top has as much sparkle as the abalone purfling. The rosette is brighter and bolder in person than what shows in the photo. This is definitely a stage guitar. It'll be very flashy.



Because of the close grain on my top its silking is much more delicate and subtle, which fits in with the subtle nature of the rosette and purfling.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Patch
Posted 2019-03-24 12:27 PM (#547455 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4156

Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent
Those look pretty dang nice!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
2wheeldrummer
Posted 2019-03-24 4:09 PM (#547456 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 488

Location: moline,illinois
Looking very awesome dan,does the difference in silking have anything to do with how old the trees are the tops came from.



Edited by 2wheeldrummer 2019-03-24 4:09 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-03-24 4:31 PM (#547457 - in reply to #547456)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Wow.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-24 5:41 PM (#547458 - in reply to #547456)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

2wheeldrummer - 2019-03-24 2:09 PM

Looking very awesome dan,does the difference in silking have anything to do with how old the trees are the tops came from.



Not really. What you're seeing is what's known as "medullary rays."

In short, these are the cells responsible for conducting sap through the cells of the tree.

These are most visible when the wood is perfectly with the grain perpendicular to the face. (quartersawn) As the cut gets more off being quartersawn, the medullary rays become less obvious.

Medullary rays are most noticeable in spruce, but are also present in other species of wood.

In the case of these two guitars, the Adi spruce has wider grain, so the medullary rays will be longer and stronger, visually. The opposite is true for the Englemann spruce. Tighter grain makes the medullary rays more delicate looking.

Here's a crude diagram that shows the medullary rays.



Edited by DanSavage 2019-03-24 5:46 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-24 5:42 PM (#547459 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, Patch & Jonmark.

BTW, this site clamps all posted images to 700 pixels wide. I usually resample them down to 1024px. So, if you want to see the full-size pics, just right-click the image, then select 'view image' from the pop-up menu.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
kentrookie
Posted 2019-03-24 6:17 PM (#547460 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 211

Location: Seattle
Man those are nice (guitars.

For those of you using a mac that's control >open image in new tab... not sure of the resolution but it is a larger picture with where you can see more of the detail of this beautiful guitar.>>>> 1024x768)

But y'all probably already knew that.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-03-24 8:19 PM (#547463 - in reply to #547460)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
kentrookie - 2019-03-24 4:17 PM

Man those are nice (guitars.

For those of you using a mac that's control >open image in new tab... not sure of the resolution but it is a larger picture with where you can see more of the detail of this beautiful guitar.>>>> 1024x768)

But y'all probably already knew that.


Thanks, Kent! Yep, you're right. 1024x768.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
arumako
Posted 2019-03-24 10:10 PM (#547464 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 869

Location: Yokohama, Japan
You've got the consistency of your rebuilds upto the level of an artform! I suppose that's another way of saying "craftsmanship". Knowing these are torrefied tops, you know these are going to have really special voices. All this is tempting me to strip down Vincent (my '97C) of the poly-finish and refinish him with French polish. The rosette, binding/purfling combination is beautiful... almost time for moody, p.i. to make his entrance!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DarenSavage
Posted 2019-03-25 3:33 AM (#547466 - in reply to #547457)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 104

Jonmark Stone - 2019-03-24 4:31 PM

Wow.

Welcome to the club.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Love O Fair
Posted 2019-03-26 9:11 AM (#547472 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1139

Location: What week?
Medullary rays, 'eh? Goes to show that you just never know what you'll learn from Dan Savage on any given day. So if you have a piece of wood that has silking across it, and you quartersaw it perpendicular across the silking lines, the tiny specks you see on the sawed edge are the tip ends of the severed medullary rays? Like little conduit tubes that carry nutrient? I think we saw some medullary rays that you weren't very happy about on a tiny block of wood you were using about a year ago to repair the chipped ear on a headstock. Anyway, thanks for the lesson!


Edited by Love O Fair 2019-03-26 9:19 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Tom The Piddler
Posted 2019-03-29 5:51 PM (#547509 - in reply to #547472)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
March 2019
Posts: 9

Location: Cass County, Texas
Love O Fair - 2019-03-26 9:11 AM

"Goes to show that you just never know what you'll learn from Dan Savage on any given day."



I second that!



Edited by Tom The Piddler 2019-03-29 5:55 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-03 12:20 AM (#547543 - in reply to #547509)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Just a quick update.

I've finished spraying the finish on the guitars.

Now, I'm waiting a week for the polymer chains to fully cross-link and then I'll start the cut and polish process.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
arumako
Posted 2019-04-03 8:30 AM (#547545 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 869

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Thanks for the update Dan...waiting with bated breath!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
2wheeldrummer
Posted 2019-04-03 5:53 PM (#547550 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 488

Location: moline,illinois
Cool!!!! Looking forward to the beauty shots of the finished guitars.
Were getting in deep this time from medullary rays to crosslinked polymer chains,when does the chemistry class start


Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-03 8:33 PM (#547551 - in reply to #547550)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
2wheeldrummer - 2019-04-03 3:53 PM

Were getting in deep this time from medullary rays to crosslinked polymer chains,when does the chemistry class start


Yeah, that's a fancy way to say, 'wait for the finish to cure.'

Class over.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Notalent
Posted 2019-04-11 10:15 PM (#547633 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
September 2018
Posts: 11

Thank you. I love to watch the rebuilds from you. I enjoyed Arumako’s too. We should get a tv show for you guys; something like ‘Ovation Rescue’, or ‘Bowl Bending’....I bet Discovery would buy it...you could even do Guitar Builder challenges...

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Patch
Posted 2019-04-12 8:20 AM (#547634 - in reply to #547633)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4156

Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent

Notalent - 2019-04-11 11:15 PM ...you could even do Guitar Builder challenges...

 

The losing instrument gets "trebucheted"...

Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-12 12:05 PM (#547644 - in reply to #547634)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Yeah, I think I'll pass on the whole reality-show thing. Re-topping guitars is stressful enough.

Speaking of which, I got mine strung up last night. It's a cool-looking, sweet-sounding guitar.

I'll be stringing up Jonmark's guitar tonight. Once it's done I'll post a couple of Q&D photos.

I'll post proper beauty shots tomorrow afternoon.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
moody, p.i.
Posted 2019-04-12 2:36 PM (#547649 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15297

Location: SoCal
Any chance that I might swing by tomorrow about noon to take a look?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-04-12 3:38 PM (#547651 - in reply to #547649)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Great news. Spring weather is cooperating at this end.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-12 4:28 PM (#547652 - in reply to #547651)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Paul,

That sounds fine to me.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
moody, p.i.
Posted 2019-04-12 6:34 PM (#547653 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15297

Location: SoCal
Cool. I'll call before I get there.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-12 9:46 PM (#547657 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Here's the Q&D photo.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
arumako
Posted 2019-04-12 11:06 PM (#547658 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 869

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Oh WOW, Dan! Looking aweful SWEET! Hope your able to get some video of moody, p.i. playing those beauties! As always, thanks for sharing!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
marenostrum
Posted 2019-04-13 11:11 AM (#547662 - in reply to #547658)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 1003

Location: Tuscany, Italy
arumako - 2019-04-12 6:06 AM

Oh WOW, Dan! Looking aweful SWEET! Hope your able to get some video of moody, p.i. playing those beauties! As always, thanks for sharing!



+1
Top of the page Bottom of the page
BCam
Posted 2019-04-13 12:41 PM (#547663 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 200

Beautiful, they have the look of an antique Spanish guitar.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
2wheeldrummer
Posted 2019-04-13 3:35 PM (#547668 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 488

Location: moline,illinois
Sweet!!!!!!!!
Both are beautiful but love the look of the one on the right,Yours I believe

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Love O Fair
Posted 2019-04-13 4:38 PM (#547669 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1139

Location: What week?
Like twins of different parents. Then cousin Dan came along and merged the proper pedigree. Hoping you and Paul are recording that dual dueling duo as I type. We'd love to hear one! To the mad scientist behind the door at Savage Laboratories I am sending congratulations on yet another fine marvel of keen craftsmanship!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-04-13 5:04 PM (#547670 - in reply to #547669)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Is the new compensated sadle your doing, Dan?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-13 6:22 PM (#547673 - in reply to #547670)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Ken,
Thanks! Sorry, no video today. Paul came over and played them -- loved them, but no video.

Bob,
Yes, the antique look is one of my favorite features of the torrefied wood tops. Well, that an the antique sound.

Kevin,
Thanks! Yes, I've become partial to it, too. I really liked the look of my I had my 2078T (Darth Ovation) along with the blacked-out look of the 2007 Collectors. In fact, the 2007C was a strong influence on this one. I originally put gold strap buttons on it when I put it together, but they looked out of place, so I replaced them with black ones. The black binding really makes the black MOP purfling pop.

Al,
Ha ha! Hence the thread title, 'Dualing Parlors.' Not so much identical twins any more as much as fraternal twins.

Sorry, no video today. I can say, and I know Paul will back me up, they both sound as spectacular as they look. Sound-wise, they are very similar with only very subtle differences. It would take a very good ear to be able to tell the difference between the two.

Jonmark's is slightly more resonant than mine. I attribute this more to the construction than the species of wood. When Ovation built Jonmark's they thinned the top quite a bit more than usual. As a result, when the neck got glued on, the fretboard extension is closer to the top. To keep from having to remove the neck and reset it, I had to eliminate the usual tapering I do when I thickness sand the tops.

Mine is tapered as usual, so it's slightly less resonant. As Paul said today, it'll be interesting to hear these guitars in a year or two. Even though the torrefied wood sounds (very) broken it, the wood continues to open up with age. It happens a lot faster than non-torrefied wood, but it still happens.

Jonmark,
Good eye. No, the compensated saddle I made is for the wide pick-up. (OCP-1K)

For some reason, when Ovation built these 5741 guitas, they used the slimline pick-ups, but used non-compensated saddles. I replaced yours with a compensated slimline saddle and the intonation is perfect. It plays in tune all the way up and down the neck. You're really going to like it. I put Elixer 80/20 Extra Light strings on both guitars.

I used the same Chicom undersaddle pick-up I put on my Frankenvation, then topped it with a Graphtech compensated black Tusq XL saddle. I also used the black Tusq nut on mine.

I've decided that one of my next 3D projects is to create a replacement compensated slimline saddle. Well, that and some preamp slider knobs. Mine was missing a couple of knobs, so I'm going to make some replacements. Once they're done, they'll go on my Shapeways page where anyone can buy them.

Speaking of Shapeways, they recently started offering very high-end, very rigid polyurethane and urethane methacrylate materials, so I ordered one of each. Once they get here, I'll put them on a couple of guitars to hear how they sound.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-13 8:31 PM (#547675 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA

All done.

Jonmark's guitar gets tortoise shell tuner buttons to go with the tortoise shell binding.

My guitar gets real black MOP tuner buttons to match the black MOP purfling.

 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
moody, p.i.
Posted 2019-04-13 9:03 PM (#547676 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15297

Location: SoCal
I played these today. Stunning. So much sound comes out of such small bodies. And the torrefied wood just pumps it out. The workmanship, as always with Dan, is first rate. The guitars are just as beautiful in real life as they are in the pictures. The tone is very very good. Balanced, but with a full bass. Jm's addy top is a little more, how to describe it, solid sounding than Dan's Englemann spruce top. There are differences, but it's hard to describe.

I would love the play them with light or medium gauge strings on them, but both Dan and Jm use extra lights. Regardless, they are just going to get better as time goes on. Well done Dan....
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-04-15 11:14 AM (#547691 - in reply to #547676)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Beyond my expectations, Dan. Thank you.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Love O Fair
Posted 2019-04-15 11:40 AM (#547692 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1139

Location: What week?
We know it's finally over and done when we see the brick pillar. I really dig that Eastwood finish.. and nice bling on the matching tuner buttons!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d'ovation
Posted 2019-04-15 11:54 AM (#547693 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 778

Location: Canada
Beautiful! Congratulations on another project well done.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DarenSavage
Posted 2019-04-15 1:18 PM (#547697 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 104

Congratulations! They're both beautiful guitars. I love the MoP tuner keys.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-15 1:33 PM (#547698 - in reply to #547691)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jonmark Stone - 2019-04-15 9:14 AM

Beyond my expectations, Dan. Thank you.


You're very welcome.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-15 1:35 PM (#547699 - in reply to #547692)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Love O Fair - 2019-04-15 9:40 AM

We know it's finally over and done when we see the brick pillar. I really dig that Eastwood finish.. and nice bling on the matching tuner buttons!


Yep. I really like working with the Eastwood finish.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-15 1:39 PM (#547700 - in reply to #547697)
Subject: RE: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
DarenSavage - 2019-04-15 11:18 AM

Congratulations! They're both beautiful guitars. I love the MoP tuner keys.


Thanks! As nice looking they are in these shots, the photos really don't do them justice.

Same for the MOP tuner buttons. The depth and figuring are unreal.

It wasn't until I got these that I realized that the tuner buttons on my Vega banjo are also real MOP and not pearloid. Real shell has a completely different look and feel than plastic.

The plastic comes close, but when you see them side-by-side, there's no comparison.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-15 1:40 PM (#547701 - in reply to #547693)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
d'ovation - 2019-04-15 9:54 AM

Beautiful! Congratulations on another project well done.


Thanks!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-04-19 2:12 PM (#547775 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy

It hasn't even shipped yet and I'm waiting by the door.

Just a little excited.

 



Edited by Jonmark Stone 2019-04-19 2:13 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-19 3:59 PM (#547776 - in reply to #547775)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Ha ha!

And, for good reason.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-04-19 5:41 PM (#547778 - in reply to #547776)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
BTW... did you end up glossing your neck?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
arumako
Posted 2019-04-19 7:42 PM (#547782 - in reply to #547775)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 869

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Congratulations on another superb project, Dan! Too bad you couldn't capture moody, p.i.'s session on video. I know you've already done plenty of torrefied videos; but if I may just say, from my spectator's perspective, one just never gets tired of hearing these torrefied treasures (figured, it never hurts to ask!). I'm just lucky I don't need a "video" to satisfy my thirst for torrefied resonance, cuz I got one of these baby's sittin' right in front of me!

moody, p.i. - 2019-04-13 11:03 AM

I played these today. Stunning...

Thanks for the succinct review, moody, p.i. always appreciate your perspective. Arigato!

Jonmark Stone - 2019-04-19 4:12 AM

It hasn't even shipped yet and I'm waiting by the door.

Just a little excited.


Mr. Jonmark Stone you are in for just an amazing treat! That "'little' excited" thing is going to jump-up a notch or two when you take delivery. Please post your thoughts (or a video!) when yours arrives. Congratulations!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
moody, p.i.
Posted 2019-04-19 9:26 PM (#547784 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15297

Location: SoCal
Been playing my DS Legend a lot lately. These are really wonderful guitars. Full deep sound yet that Ovation vibe. I've had this for 2 years and it's really coming into it's own. Jm, you're gonna like your guitar.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-20 12:26 PM (#547787 - in reply to #547778)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jonmark Stone - 2019-04-19 3:41 PM

BTW... did you end up glossing your neck?


No. I got lazy and decided just to re-top it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-04-22 8:16 PM (#547804 - in reply to #547787)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
I have a package shaped like a guitar box arriving tomorrow morning...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
arumako
Posted 2019-04-23 2:01 AM (#547807 - in reply to #547804)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 869

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Jonmark Stone - 2019-04-22 10:16 AM

I have a package shaped like a guitar box arriving tomorrow morning...

Woohoo! Exciting!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-04-23 7:15 PM (#547818 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Well, it's here, safe and sound. Probably no surprise here that Dan is as meticulous in packaging as he is at building.

Top is beautiful. As he said, pictures don't do justice. How does it sound?
Loud.
Ballanced.
Warm.

I'll get around to some audio clips.

Really impressed... both by Dan's work... and the torrefied top.

Did I say it was loud? Big voice for a small salad bowl.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
arumako
Posted 2019-04-24 10:02 AM (#547822 - in reply to #547818)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 869

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Jonmark Stone - 2019-04-23 9:15 AM

I'll get around to some audio clips.

YES!!!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-04-24 11:42 AM (#547823 - in reply to #547822)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jonmark,

Phew! I'm very happy to hear it arrived in good condition. Shipping a guitar is always stressful for me.

As Daren wrote, welcome to the club. We're a small, but growing cabal of torrefied-top Ovation guitar owners.

Enjoy!

Dan
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-05-07 6:33 PM (#548912 - in reply to #547823)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Wanted to give an update. Promise I will get some clips available as soon as I can.
I've been giving this guitar a serious workout and it's still amazing to me how much more this top has to offer than the original. Won't repeat the same adjectives I used above... they still stand... it's just a wonderful instrument.

The week I got the shipment, I headed down an extensive dental rebuild process. Root canals, crowns, extractions & implants. Yuck.
So much for the Tesla roadster I had my eye on.

I'll get back on track soon.

Just didn't want anyone to think my silence equated to disappointment. Far from it.
Dan's a master.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-05-07 6:41 PM (#548913 - in reply to #546714)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1403

Location: Indy
Come to think of it... should have asked Dan if he did dental work...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DanSavage
Posted 2019-05-12 9:37 AM (#548934 - in reply to #548913)
Subject: Re: Dualing Parlors...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1978

Location: Lake Forest, CA
I was wondering how you and your guitar were getting along.

I got a chance to play mine again this week. I had been practicing on the Frankenvation in preparation for the worship service last weekend, so it was nice to get back to the Parlor. Like you, I'm really happy with mine.

My only disappointment is that I don't like how it wants to roll under when I play it standing up with a strap. I bought one of those plastic do-dads that attaches to the back of the guitar. (Standing Ovation) It worked, but it looked so out-of-place on the guitar there was no way I was going to use it in public.
Top of the page Bottom of the page