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Location: Phoenix AZ | Here's a page with the laser vibrometer plots. If you would like to add yours please scan it in 300 dpi reslolution jpg format and email it to me.
Dave
LASER VIBROMETER PLOTS |
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Location: Simpsonville, SC | Sorry, found explanation in another thread. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Three guitars now posted. This is kind of cool. Any more? |
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Location: NJ | need to hook up my scanner and as soon as I do I will get it to you.
preparing for 1000 sq ft of sod tomorrow |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I'll send you #5 tomorrow. |
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Location: SoCal | Darren showed me the graphs from all the 47's (and the original 47) while I was in CT. They are all remarkably consistant. It's pretty interesting to see. |
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Location: Germany | Used materials and manufacturing are very consistent so I don't expect too many variations between the plots. I also would think that all OFCs sound the same, at least to my ears. But I know there are some guys out there who can perceive even slight variations.
Al, feel free to scan also the plot of #10. Would love to see it here.
Karl |
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Location: SoCal | The graphs that I would like to see are those of the original 33 slotheads. While the bodies of all the slotheads are mostly synthetic materials, I believe that they do "play in" over time and sound better and better. |
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Location: Tennessee | I'll send the plot of #6 when I get back home on Friday. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Just found this thread, although Tony told me about it when I visited him. I didn't see a plot in the envelope, but I must admit I was looking at all the other goodies. Charlie, even to my ears I could tell a sound difference between my OFC and Tony's. Possibly enough that after only a week of trying to play mine a few minutes each day I would be able to tell the difference by the sound. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | If only our scanner worked. A=164.4485 at 38.332 dB B=83.8552 at 37.447 dB |
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Location: SoCal | Mark, that would make yours an 83???
Oh, well. You can be the bass man :p :D :p |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | It has no shortage on the bass end. It's obviously not as consistent as Paul says the 47s were. I don't quite understand it, but it is interesting. |
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Location: Tidal Mudflats of Virginia | Still working out the move in. Right now limited to a 28k dial-up, hope to have the scan by the end of the month...
For the statistics...
A: Freq X:167.3131 Y:-40.913
B: Freq X: 91.4176 Y:-40.313
Tim |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Tupp, the plot will be e-mailed to you later, but the readings are:
A: Freq X:148.262 Y: -40.845
B: Freg X:93.0101 Y: -35.1
I have no clue what all this means. I did note that the lower reading of the original No. 47 was 99, which was the highest reading of all the original slotheads. Knowing that No. 47 is considered by many to be the best sounding of the original lot, I surmised that its higher reading had something to do with the sound. As somebody previously pointed out, these differences may be noticeable on the Laser Vibrometer printout, but probably not to our ears (at least not mine). |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Good question Professor. If it's not too much trouble, could one of the scientists illuminate what these graphs mean. I have an inkling that they show something about the highest freq, but I thought that was measured in hertz or megahertz, with a low number being a low sound, and higher number, being a higher pitched sound.
Thanks |
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Location: NJ | The graphs merely document that your collective checking accounts have taken a major "hit" . . . |
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Location: closely held secret | ...which accounts for the high-pitched sound. |
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Location: south east Michigan | The print-outs are cool but what I'd really like to have is an m-peg, color video of a test. That is where you can really see just how dynamic the top a guitar is.
I'd use it as a screen saver.
However, it might fall under the "trade secret" and will never be seen outside the hallowed halls of the Mothership. |
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Location: Colorado | I have one of original 43....I'll send it as soon as I'm out of the dentist's chair...... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Slipkid:
The print-outs are cool but what I'd really like to have is an m-peg, color video of a test. During the very first OFCT they ran a live test on an ADII. I'm pretty sure someone captured it on videotape.
Dave |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | UPDATED 7/15.
Now includes guitar numbers 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8.
http://www.roundbackguitarforum.com/vibrometer.htm
Dave |
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Location: SoCal | Dave, you need to re-open the OFC side of the Ovation Gallery just so we can see who owns what and to keep track of things..... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I'm working on it. It takes time to photoshop every single picture and paste Martin headstocks on all my ovation and adamas guitars.
Dave |
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Location: Colorado | Original Slothead #43
A = X: 192.1012 Y: -39.245
B = X: 74.3071 Y: -37.607
Preparing to email to Dave |
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Location: Tennessee | Wow! EA, was this run at the recent slothead reunion? I wonder how much of this is attributable to lots of play. What was the original reading (did they do that on the slotheads?) Might answer the question of whether they "open-up" or not. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I think No. 43's plots were made back in the days when horsepower was gross rated at the flywheel. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | That is some range, if I have any clue what this means. |
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Location: Colorado | Sheesh - am I that old perfesor? This plot was made at the slothead reunion a couple years ago...I'll see what else I can dig up out the archives - a.k.a stack of papers on the dresser in the basement.
Mark |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Webpage is updated. Now includes a section for the plots of the original slotheads.
http://www.roundbackguitarforum.com/vibrometer.htm
So far Mark's #43 is the only original one. If anyone else has plots of their originals and wants to share them, please do. I'd love to have a plot of # 42 but I don't think that one was at the reunion.
Dave |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Actually, Mark, I'm really impressed with the range on your plots. Its adds credence to the theory that maybe these things really do open up over time with use, and I recall that yours might possible have seen more use in its life than any of the other originals. OFC No. 5 wants to be just like original No. 43 when it grows up. |
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Location: NJ | ". . Its adds credence to the theory that maybe these things really do open up over time with use . ."
OR, . . that the Originals (or this one in particular) just sounds that much "different" from the Re-Issues . . .
The "opening up" theory would require a plot from when the guitar was NEW to be used as a comparison to substantiate it . . . |
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Location: SoCal | Tup, why do you want a plot of #42?
Cliff, you're right. Without a plot of the originals made when they were new, there's no way of knowing short of waiting 30 years. |
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Location: NJ | Wouldn't take THAT long.
More like 29 years, 10 months . . . |
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | Slothead #45 was at the reunion in Sept '05. Its results:
A:Freq Resp 2/1 X:182.4022 Hz Y:-35.305 dB
B:Freq Resp 2/1 X:78.2582 Hz Y:-36.552 dB
Its Freq Resp was originally recorded as 92.
Whatever it all means! |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Marks says he's looking for the original scan on No. 43. This will be enlightening if he can locate it. |
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Location: NJ | I don't think that the machine was "around" back then . . . |
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Location: Germany | The lowest response frequency of #43 moved from 93 Hz to 74 Hz, #45 moved from 92 Hz to 78 Hz. I think this supports the "sound development theory". Looks that they tend to become more bassy.
Karl
PS. OFC #10 is expected to arrive on Friday. |
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Location: Colorado | I do not have a plot like the one done a couple years ago. Back then they measured time with a calendar and motion/distance in cubits. Only additional information I have about this guitar pertaining to this topic is its fundamental resonant frequency - which is 93Hz. If it has opened up - I cannot prove it...not sure if it has...Over the 20 years or so I've had the guitar...the change would be so slow - I would not be able to tell - sounded good then - sounds good now. Professor - I'm still betting your OFC sounds better - I'm trusting 30 years of learning leads to something better....I'd bet at the very least the OFC is louder. I have personally found the best sounding guitars are the ones in which the PLAYER actually hits the notes precisely in time and in tune...a novel concept. Several years ago Phil Keaggy played #43 for ten minutes..trust me - it sounded much better then. You also have to remember - when the originals were made - it was a progression over time - with educated experimentation involved in the process (Bill - tell me if this is incorrect). The great art form is ....what response do we need from the guitar to make it sound subjectively good (measurement by one player with bias)...and what science in the process should be there - to consistently make a lot of them objectively good (measurement by lots of of players without bias). Man...can you tell I'm a HS principal in the summer with nothing to do but write? I gotta get back to work....maybe I'll buy some string tubes. |
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Location: NJ | Mark;
In answer to your PM:
Yes I did take some pics of the "Master Printout" at the SlotHead Reunion in '05.
However, since it was so large (about 3' wide x 10' long) and that it was laid-out on a table, the "overall" pic doesn't show any readable details. By looking at some of the "close-up" pics it show various dimensions, weights, dates and such for each guitar. It lists the "Resonant Frequency" for each guitar, but that's about the extent of anything along those lines . . .
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by Charlie Ramon:
The lowest response frequency of #43 moved from 93 Hz to 74 Hz, #45 moved from 92 Hz to 78 Hz. I think this supports the "sound development theory". Looks that they tend to become more bassy.
Karl
PS. OFC #10 is expected to arrive on Friday. But the higher frequencies may also have moved up ... all of the OFCs seem to at most be in the mid-160s, and the originals are now in the 180s and 190s. I wonder if the volume also picks up based on the lower -dbs of the originals?
Guess I'll just play the crap out of mine for the next 20-30 years and then see if I can get another plot. Check back, I'll let you know. :cool:
The anticipation must be killing you Karl. ;) |
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Location: Colorado | Thanks Cliff - great piece of history you have there...folks - I cannot jump to the conclusion that the resonant frequency in 1976 equates to the A and B measurements a couple years ago...it might - but I dunno...but it was freaky watching Darren run the video plot of the geetar...as Cliff suggested - - even Darren admitted through video analysis this particular guitar has some unique sound signatures...so be it! I'm guessing we need a prof. interp. Even if it opened up - it still doesn't help me play an Ab augmented flatted 9th with and F natural on the low E string! |
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Location: Germany | #10 arrived safely with the carbon case. It looks and sounds tremendous. Thanks Al for the many hours you put into that guitar and all the other stuff. Dave, I will send you the laser plot.
Jerome, Tom and I took some pics on the Imperial Castle of Nuremberg. There was a lot of interest in our guitars, especially from some US tourists. They were very proud to hear that these nice guitars were built in their home country.
Karl |
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Location: Tidal Mudflats of Virginia | Dave,
Email sent your way for #9.
Now we just need to get Darren or Rick to let us have a copy of our respective 47RI's scans.
Tim |
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| This is great for Ovations, nice to brag higher numbers or what-have-you but I am curious if anyone has the numbers for a high end Taylor, Martin, Gibson acoustic and so on?? I would be curious to see comparitive numbers between the traditional guitars themselves and in comparison to the Ovations.
I know little of this technology so I suppose these numbers on the traditional guitars my exist somewhere......???... but I have only ever heard Ovation sporting the frequency results on thier guitars.
By the way, Nice photo's gentlemen! |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | i've seen a plot from a samick D-1, guitar for $100 and it had 83-155 hz range.
but it doesn't mean anything. that guitar sounded like a crap no matter what plot said. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Personally I don't think the numbers mean crap. It's like the torque curve on a Ford F-350 pickup truck. Nice to look at when your shopping for a new vehicle, but I doubt it ever crosses your mind when you're hauling the boat out of the water. Don't get me wrong, it's very good that the company has this capability and maybe it can weed out the extremes, but I think it's only relevent to help visualize that identical guitars in fact perform more or less the same on the vibrometer. They have measured some benchmark guitars (read "D28") and found similar patterns, or so I've heard. But I don't think you're gonna look at a bunch of plots and say the Gibson sounds like it does because of these peaks, and the Collings sounds like this because of that slope, etc. The only definitive correlation I have seen is a plot of a high end Taylor. The shape of the plot distinctly resembled a limp penis.
Dave |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | For me, in this particular case (samick) numbers didn't mean anything.
guitar sounded great when you strummed or picked it without pressing the strings to fretboard. but if you wanted to play a barre chord, this guitar's "distinctive" sound turned into a flat crappy sound of a cheap guitar.
i'm sure that there are ways to make plot look great, not neccesairly to make guitar sound great.
and about the numbers.
you could say that Lamborgini Murcielago is much faster than Lancer Evolution based on numbers
Lambo has 6,2 V12 engine, rear wheel drive and 580hp, and EVO has 340HP (mr340), 2 liter engine and costs 10% of Murcielago. And still, head to head on track EVO Wins.
and still you need a really good driver (or guitar player) to use everything that car/guitar gives. |
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | Finally scanned the plot of Slothead #0045.
I emailed Dave a Hi-Res copy.
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OFC GUITAR - LASER VIBROMETER PLOTS