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Location: south east Michigan | Because BrianT & I don't gig very often we have lots of extra time to think/worry about set lists.
How much thought do you put into it???
In a 10 song set we "think" we need to start and finish with something catchy "A" songs and relegate the "B" songs to the middle.
And do we burn all our Beatle songs at once or spread them out over a couple sets?
Is there a method to this or are we just overthinking it?? |
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Location: East Tennessee | Start with a couple of fast songs to get the crowd's attention.
Then something slow to relax them and then maybe a medley of Beatles songs to give something familiar.
End with your best song.
But what do I know? If I had to live on what I've made as a musician, I'd be on welfare. :D |
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Location: NJ | Most of the places we play are bars that are also restaurants.
We'll start off with a couple of mellow tunes while the last of the "dinner crowd" is finishing up, as this allows us to "warm up" as well. We'll tend to "ramp it up" depending on how the crowd is going.
Conversely, there's a couple of places we play that're just a crowded, cacaphony of people. In instances like this, we'll pick a tune that'll be a 2x4 between the eyes t'get their "attention", and then we just have the to keep the upbeat stuff going, throwing in the occasional ballad to catch our breath. Being that we generally play 2 two-hour sets, we tend to welcome when the place starts to empty-out at the last half hour or so, so that we can "ramp down" with some mellower tunes to close the night with.
We really don't do much of a "set list" at all (at best, it'll be VERY "loose"). We used t'do it, but then the "requests" start up, and any semblance of "order" goes out the window. We've got 6-8 songs that we'll often cycle through as "openers", and we have a few "barn-burners" that we save to end a set (or the night) with.
John B. often wonders how in the HELL we get re-booked.
We often have NO problem publicly voicing our personal musical tastes.
A woman will come up and request an Elvis song, and I'll politely decline. When she asks "why", I'll point-blank tell her "because he SUCKS!".
As she's walking back (dejectedly) to the bar, we'll play the one-and-only Elvis tune we know, and all is forgiven. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by cliff:
A woman will come up and request an Elvis song, and I'll politely decline. When she asks "why", I'll point-blank tell her "because he SUCKS!".
As she's walking back (dejectedly) to the bar, we'll play the one-and-only Elvis tune we know, and all is forgiven. It did happen to be Pricilla Presley. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | For a three hour gig, I divide the list into three sets, one per hour, then select numbers depending upon the crowd. The last three gigs have been as background at an art gallery with people looking at art while sipping wine, so everything is relatively mellow. I modify the list so the effects and tempo of each song are never repeated, and as others have said, open and close each set with something up-beat from which they might walk away humming. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I always played to the crowd and as Cliff I played a monster number of requests...careful in going this route as memorization can get tedious: I use a lyric book...although after many, many years playing, I had most down by heart. I tried to do several two or three song medleys of an artist (say Jimmy Buffet etc.) and saved my big crowd pleasers for the final set(s). I would start out as the gig as the crowd deemed and go with it from there. I actually never did "set lists" per say but did usually do the same songs in a given time slot such as 2nd set etc. Although I have not played out since 1993, I do learn new songs (not at the pace as before), but with a songbook of over 400 classic pop, rock, easy listening, and country songs, I could go out and do a gig this weekend if I had to. Good equipment and practice are essential as is a modicum of talent. Have fun, work the crowd, do the requests you can, learn how to handle the drunks and difficult persons, and there ya go! I toured for over 10 years straight and then again for three years at a later date all the time managing myself and my band (although I did use Agents time to time)...If I did it today, I'd play locally and keep my day job. My family means more to me than any gig now. But it was a blast for a while...but got old rather quickly...some good memories of back in the day…Best wishes!
Blessings...
:cool: |
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Location: south east Michigan | Thanks guys.... sounds like we are about on the same page.
The last thing we want to do, and we have done this, is to finish a song then look at eachother and say...
"Whadda wanna do?"
"I dunno.. whadda you wanna do?"
"I dunno.. whatever you want to do".
That does not help at all.
Ya gotta have some kind of plan. |
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Location: SoCal | Good equipment and practice are essential as is a modicum of talent.
It's that need for a modicum of talent that always seems to come up and bite me on the butt..... |
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Location: south east Michigan | Paul... It's getting kinda hard for you to hide behind that modesty bush. To many people are finding out.
And that brushes on another thread topic I've been thinking about. But I'll save that for another time.
Advice from all you guys that have been "out there" is very useful to us wannabees. |
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Location: ms | I make a rough list and then go with the crowd or with the spirit if i`m in Church. |
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Location: Scotland | There are basic conventions about how to construct and pace a set, such as finish on something strong, and be aware of tempos, keys and grooves. However I think as soon as you attempt to "read" an audience and give them what you think they want, you have basically put them in control.
Once you have some experience you should have the confidence and conviction to do what you do as well as you can, and if the audience don't like it then play to a different audience who do like it. It's they that are wrong, not you. If you try to please all the people all the time you end up with no musical identity or direction. That said, you need to start somewhere and I'm speaking from the point of veiw of a sideman/instrumentalist here, and I'm fortunte enough that I generally get hired by musicians with reasonable track records who usually play to partisan crowds. After countless years of crappy gigs I made a conscious decision that if I couldn't go out and get paid to play what I personally actually want and choose to play and enjoy playing, then I'd rather not bother. I'm still gigging as much as I need to.
The biggest "mistake" for want of a better word, that I see constantly with bands at a grassroots local level is that they consistently underestimate the intellect and attention span of their audiences and play a totally "safe" set, full of the lamest, most tired, done-to-death material. There are enough people out their who are up for being challenged a little while they are being entertained. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | I've got a friend who says that if you play out enough and play your material well, you don't need to "find" the audience. They'll come looking for you.
I also think that an audience gets an inherent value out of personality too and a lot of us have seen you and Brian, Brad. Put the set you want to do together and go have fun. The audience will see that and they'll have fun too. Don't over-think it, man. That's why they call it playing. |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Weaser P:
I've got a friend who says that if you play out enough and play your material well, you don't need to "find" the audience. They'll come looking for you.
Absolutely right. |
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Location: Scotland | Brad & Brian, what you guys are doing is great, and you get better every time I see you. Don't over-intelectualise it |
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Location: NJ | beatle tunes are slam dunks
great for set enders |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | All good advise, and I would especially heed what Mr. Templeman has stated. In maybe some other words, if you play a song you love that may not be that popular, it will go over much better than playing a "pop" tune without your heart in it.
The only thing I can add is that after you put your list together, use it as a guide, not the law. Have a couple of "Justine Case" tunes for each set. No that's not Lisa's long lost brother. Have a Jam song, or an alternate slow tune. Just a couple for each set if for some reason the alternate seems more important, or the set runs long, or or or or. At the end of the night, they come in handy for encore numbers or if you get extended, etc etc..
As some may know I have some friends in a band that tours 100+ gigs a year around the world. I get a kick out of watching the whole "setlist" evolution of a show. One guy, the lead singer does the list. They have a catalog of 20+ albums at least plus a bunch of covers and three "must play" hits. Occasionally they have replacement members on keys, drums, bass or 2nd lead, so the list obviously has to be tunes everyone knows. They also have a primary sound guy, but if he can't make it, they don't do certain songs because of the effect and extra sound que's that require knowing the material and having the effects or samples programmed. Ok, so they make a setlist, they have usually two "just in case" tunes, so far so good. But they also read the audience and occasionally, if the mood swings, they will switch up the setlist on the fly. It's kind of funny really. It's like all the effort of the setlist creation is just to fall back on if they don't think of anything better to play.
You'd think after 30 years of touring they'd have "A" setlist. But no, it's written fresh, every show.
Not sure this info helps at all, but I find it interesting, but it falls into what Paul T. wrote in essence, play what you want to play, and don't over think it, and as you get into it, the set will just flow. Trust your judgement. If the audience doesn't like it, get another audience. |
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Location: Scotland | Damn, I wish I'd said it like that! |
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Location: Alberta, Canada | Interesting topic. As I was reading the posts, I was recalling a few gigs we did. At one, we tried everything we could come up with to try and get people up on the dance floor. The whole night we had maybe 6 couples who actually made it up on the floor. By the end of the night we were completely baffled and felt for sure we would be raked over the coals when we got payed.
Surprise, surprise, they could not thank us enough for the most enjoyable evening of music and were most appologetic that so few had got up to dance. They rehired us on the spot for the same function the next year.
The other that comes to mind was a gig where our drummer did not show up. So we had lead/rythm guitar, steel guitar and electric bass. By the end of the first set perhaps 1/2 dozen couples were dancing. Once again it was a head scratching time and we were just not sure how we were going to pull this off. On the first break we sat and talked about it and decided we were just going to get up and play for ourselves and try to enjoy the rest of the night. I think it was the third set, I put the bass down, and used the lead players Ovation for a couple of tunes and then the steel player grabbed his Takamine and we did a few with the 3 guitars. Just having fun, we had never before (or since) did something with just guitars. The crowd loved it.
By the end of the night the dance floor was full and everybody was having a great time. It was one of the best gigs I remember.
Also, at the end of the night, 3 guys came up and booked us for their communities "Firemens Ball". They said they figured if we were that good without a drummer, they just knew they had to hire us for their towns biggest event of the year. We played that gig 6 years in a row.
So I guess my point is to not get too hung up on how "you percieve" the crowd. Just make a point of playing for yourself. If you are having fun, the crowd will read that and react in turn.
Oh, and the set thing; we had about a dozen different pages with four full sets on each. If we started getting bored with a certain nights set we would dig out a different one for the next gig. Helped keep things fresh.
This almost makes me wish I was playing out again.
Dave |
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Location: Omaha, NE | "Mean Woman Blues" is a great Elvis song...you can really rock it, and its not so worn out. Does anyone NOT have "Love Me Tender" on their permanent "NFW ever again" list?
Beatles tunes kick ass...we do "Back in the USSR" and "Saw Her Standing There". Everyone likes a Beatles song.
Another song we recently added that really works is "Squeeze Box" by The Who. That's been really well received.
Back to set structure...Our strategy, to the extent we have any, is to play 12 to 14 seriously dancable songs per set. Generally we group them in threes or fours...don't want a lot of breaks. At the end of the set, we want them tired and THIRSTY! Gotta pay the bartender, after all.
KILLER closing song: Drive by The Cars. If you can't hook up at the end of the night when that song starts, you better just go home. |
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Location: ms | When i play solo i do few covers and that can be a hard sell. While i agree with Paul to a point i still like to get the feel of the room and go from there, but most nites i do just play what i feel like playing and hope folks go along for the ride. But i think Paul was saying if your into it they will be more likely to follow and i think thats true. I`ve spent a lot of time as a sideman with people like BrandonJane, while she will do a few covers shes good enough to win over most crowds doing sfuff they have most likely never heard. Its harder for me, she looks and sings better. |
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Location: Isle of Man, UK | Originally posted by Omaha:
KILLER closing song: Drive by The Cars. If you can't hook up at the end of the night when that song starts, you better just go home. The problem with that theory is that I'm usually in the band! I get to watch everyone else hook up, then pack up and go home. Ah well...
I usually wait for the setlist from our bass player, and then play it!
The one good thing about Rockbilly is that it's all pretty much high/medium tempo rock and roll.
This means, that when I get to do the setlist - I put it in a spreadsheet, generate a random number next to each song, and then sort it in order by that number. A couple of tweaks where we need songs of the same key next to each other for the singer, and bingo!
I love being an Excel geek!
JB |
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| Oi! Rockabilly Boy! Remember me? Did anything arrive? |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Once upon a time, when I was in a punk rock band, we really didn't give shit. It just went for .5 hour at full blast. That was it. Have a beer. Hope the audience enjoyed it as much as we did. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Before this drops to far out of sight I want to thank everyone for the advise.
Good stuff here. It might even merit (with a little editing), being part of Miles' proposed FAQ / Info section. |
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Location: Australia | I heard Cliff talking about doing 2 hour sets?
I'm wondering what the standard convention in other countries is for a regular club/pub gig.
In Australia you normally do a 4 hour gig, 4 sets with a 10/15 min break in between.
Is it the same elsewhere? |
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Location: Spain | We do three hours with two 15 minute breaks .Two 45,s and one 60.Most audiences love us but if I ever figure out what turns a good gig into a real blinder I'll let you know!!! personal opinion is that an audience has to be up for it . playing to 30 to 100 people they have to want to have a good time. Although I agree with comments about finding other audiences there is a fine line between enjoying yourself and actually entertaining people.A good half of our audiences would not be there to see us, they are just there.You are payed to bring in customers and keep them there .On an average night here a bar will lose money by putting a band on ,because the increase in turnover does not pay for the band.Resteraunts are better as they earn more from food. Being a gigging musician at the low end of the scale is hard work.........!! |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Driftwood:
On an average night here a bar will lose money by putting a band on ,because the increase in turnover does not pay for the band. If a venue loses money by promoting music they should either charge to get in, change their booking policy, fire the manager or quit promoting music and do something they are better equipped to do. That's nothing more than common sense and good business practice. |
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Location: Spain | Quite true Paul but that still dosent help me find more venues.Alot of the bars provide music once a week to keep their customers happy,not to make money .If they wanted to make a fortune they sure wouldn't have a bar here.As in all holiday areas competition is fierce so an entry charge is not an option.It is a simple thing really, too many bars not enough people.It will get better though as a few more go bust and the remainder become buisier. |
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Location: Scotland | I spent 10 years running music venues for a living, and countless years promoting music privately (something which I still do when I feel like it, and always for little or no financial return, which is why it's only when I feel like it) I could write a book on why the local music scenes, and especialy bar gigs pretty much suck, regardless of where you are in the world. Bar gigs are shit because the venue owners either don't understand or don't care how to make it better. Jesus, I could write a book on this, it's hardly rocket science, yet the vast majority get it soooooo wrong.
The good gigs have a dedicated performance area, something approaching a half-decent house PA and maybe an attempt at some stage lighting. The management turn off the big screen TV's showing sports when the band is playing. They play music between sets that is complimentary to the band that is playing that night. They encourage noisy customers to use other parts of the venue so their inane yakking doesn't spoil the enjoyment of the people who have come to listen. (Have you noticed how those it's those assholes who always shut up between songs and clap loudest, but shout their conversations at each other as soon as the music starts again) They provide an area to chill before and after the show and maybe even a few snacks and a couple of drinks for the band. Finally and most importantly, they understand that unless you happen to be a name act with a good following, it's the job of the venue to attract an audience by promoting the gig properly, and your job to entertain those who turn up without unneccesary obstacles being rammed in your face.
I've pretty much stopped playing places that don't meet those fairly basic and obvious critera, And if more musicians took the same stance, things might get a little better. |
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Location: Flushing, MI | I never have a set list. I work off the top of my head all of the time, and it works best for me. Even in a band situation, if I've been working with a rhythm section long enough, they'll know the visual ques that I use, and after finishing up a tune, I can just launch into the next without telling the band what it is, or what key. And it comes off like we planned to do this, but it's much more natural feeling, not to mention the fact that you can tailor the set along the way to suit the crowd. It keeps the band REALLY on their toes too! It forces them to listen tightly, and watch close. So you know that you're really tuned into each other.
For solo acoustic gigs (no backing), I'll start off with some kind of Big Bill Broonzy-like guitar boogie shuffle thing - usually in E so that it'll be easy to solo over top of open bass strings. It may or may not be a vocal tune, but it'll let the audience know that I plan on being guitar-intensive with my act. From there, I'll shift gears to something that may be more familiar to the average folks - depending upon the venue.
I play a BBQ joint occasionally, and they want nothing but classic Blues such as Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, Sonny Boy Williamson, John Lee Hooker, etc. and THAT'S what I specialize in. But if it's a "regular" crowd that wants familiar oldies ("My Girl", "Heard it Through the Grapevine, Beatles, Elvis....) I've got that covered as well.
My biggest two downfalls are that I don't know much material post-mid 70's, and I don't B.S. with the crowd very much. I'm very mic-shy by nature. I'll sing all night, but I don't want to speak into a mic at all. |
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Location: south east Michigan | My biggest two downfalls are that I don't know much material post-mid 70's, I know what you man... I'm in the same boat. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Unfortunately unless you're in a "live" music scene area like parts of Memphis, and a few other places, the view of club management at popular night spots can be summed up very simply..
"I have a packed house no matter if I have a live band, a DJ or just plug in the Juke Box. It's nice to change things up with live music or a DJ once in awhile, but hardly worth the hassle." |
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How Do You Set Up Your Set???