|
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Just a thought while posting a message in another thread.
I see the Deacons and Bread Winners on Ebay always sell for more then most of us figure they will prices go up a little all the time it seems?? In fact I would say these guitars very often are sold through email offers to end the auctions early. Now that says to me you ave a good product. Ovation has taken chances on things before I would like to suggest they do a remanufactured run of Deacons. Nothing crazy perhaps a couple of hundred?? I would think they could sell these for around 1K perhaps less electric solid bodies have got to be easier to make than the acoustics even though they are tooled for them. If they want Jim's old deacon back to use as a proto we can do that.....??
Just a thought
Randy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | The Breadwinner is dead......
Long live Hamer!!!!!!
Dispite the logic....they ain't coming back. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Here's the whip . . .
. . . the "dead horse" is 'round back . . . . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | nice thought but cliff's right.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret |  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Did not know this topic had been driven round the barn already? Whoops.. I am quite aware of Ovations Hamer guitars. Great great guitars I had one custom built not to long ago. I just feel these old Body styles from Ovation are so retro they'd sell real well...... Nothing like them accept for the vintage models.
Ohh well... guess you guy's know more about marketing and ovations than I. I have only been back into music and guitars for about 2 years or so now.
Cliff; I'd hate to be accused of beating that dam horse, I am just a bystander. someone else already rode him to death, not me. But hey if this horse is in Jersey.... what the hell stick him up on a spit and have a B'beque...... Whoooooooooooooooooo!!!!
Randy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | It's a great idea, the real problem is that no matter how they try to research it they will build about 10 too many and then those get blown out extra cheap and all the rest of that story.
Now how about a Magnum bass reissue...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | THAT I would go for!!!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | I've often thought about having one of the factories we deal with in China make a Breadwinner repro, but then thought about the legal implications and ditched the whole idea. That said, it's never bothered Steve Klein, and Eastwood seem to be getting away with their GP knock-off, though how long that remains a viable project now Josh Homme's guitar loyalties seem to be elsewhere, remains to be seen. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | Best bet is to have a body cut for you, put in modern electronics and your pup of choice. Mate it to an original neck - which is the hardest part to refigure.
Heeeee-Haaaaaw |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | I have several originals, this isn't a personal guitar thing, more filling a vintage reissue niche that is currently being missed, or that no-one else is interested in trying. I was thinking about a production run of several hundred here, not a one-off. I can make it happen relatively easily, just don't want to get my ass sued in the process. I'm pretty sure a well designed sub-$350 Chinese-made Breadwinner style guitar would sell worldwide in numbers worth tooling up for. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| I have no idea what the marketability is for such an animal. I do know it would have to be an Ovation reissue thing for the price to be high enough for the factory to raise an eyebrow and for the guitar collectors and players to take it seriously. A made in China Deacon is going to ruin the ones we ll have now and brand them as cheap junk guitars and they are doing so well on their own merrits.....
I just like the shape of the body and the whole idea of it being basically the first powered pickup production guitar back in the day.
It just seems like the market is filled with guitars all kinds off new brands all the time. The custom worked ones fetch huge bucks now and if they have a name that gets noticed because Slash or one of a million big name acts uses one once then they can command big bucks forever. The lesser names are always going to be stuck in cheapville and no matter how good they are made can't break the mold they cast for themselves. Gibson and Fender will continue forever as the American Icons they are....
Now Ovation still has a American following. The market is still there and I think with the right marketing and just one big name using one again on stage this old body style will come back from it's dead horse past and the gear heads will find these fun and they will sell. Perhaps some new electronics gagetry you know; Like the first powered pickups were back in the day???? How about the first Lazer powered pickup, tuner, stagelight, fretmarker, cigarette ligter, 3D optical lightshow shaped like a guy beating a dead horse!
I know it is not likley to happen but I thought it was an idea that is worth a 5.5 on an idea scale of 1 to 10
Randy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | You're right, you have no idea.
Chinese made Epiphone Les Pauls or whatever have in no way devalued originals, but they offer a reasonable to good guitar for those who cannot yet attain the real thing. And most who buy the Epiphone aspire to the Gibson, to use a brand analogy.
Anything "vintage" in finite quantity will rightly or wrongly have a value, usually inflated. Copies, tributes, relics, reissues or whatever are neither here nor there, they are merely commodities. Rolex are not threatened by $10 rip-offs of their 5-figure product, simply because the people who matter and are prepared to pay, know the difference. Fender Custom Shop Relics have not made the prices of '61 Strats take a nosedive.
Nobody except a handful of sad, desperate geeks give a toss about the Deacon and Breadwinner, and we won't settle for copies. But, in my considered opinion The Breadwiner is such a cool design that it deserves a second chance as an affordable, imported guitar for the mass market and like the Eastwood GP it doesn't really matter whether it says Ovation on the headstock or not |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 430
Location: Lebanon, TN | Personally if there was a new "re-issue" BW/Deacon I would save like a crazy man to buy one. just my 2 cents (which I will now put in a jar to save for the "re-issue" |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Comparing an Epiphone to the merrits of a Gibson is one thing. The Gibson Les paul has been around for 60 years! They are going to be one of the be-all-end-all guitar lovers guitar's of choice for 60 more. I agree Epiphone has not ruined anything Gibson makes. But if you take an Obscure not very well known electric guitar that we Geeks know as an Ovation Deacon and you do a "Made in China" copy under some other name. Those of us fools who own one of these will not be able to explain that this is a great older American made guitar anymore.....Ours have not been around and known by every guitarist that lives as a great American Icon like the Les Paul or other Gibsons....Right???........All the rest of the guitar buying public will know is that that "axe like" shape is one of those new Imported pieces of crap someone is trying to market here in the US. OUr Deacons will become associated with the Imported model not the other way round. If you see my point..
All I am saying (for the sake of discussion) is if Ovation built it here, as a copy of the ones it built 30 years ago, then there may be a small market but real one and one that will pay a good price for it. Hell I am only talking about 200 or 250 tops ? Seems like there are more people looking at a deacon each time they go up for auction than that. But again like I have said in the past..... I could be wrong I often am.
I am going to go and whip up some BBq'd Horse for dinner now!
Randy
Randy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Paul, I'll check some things for you. Still, you say several hundred and I'd bet money that the number will be 10% too high and you'll be hung with the rest. Still if you want to go for it... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I gave up my hope of getting a "new" breadwinner, was unsatisfied with what's out there, and thanks to suggestions from this board, am making my own electric guitar out of warmoth and other parts.
However, I'm sure people would like to help get this off the ground, ie sales, wood sources factories etc. Keep us posted. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | Some retro P-90s with a solid state active/overdrive would be awesome. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Bill, the factory I have in mind will make a sample run in relatively small numbers, so that could be a way to test the water without a huge investment. They are working on a lap steel for us right now. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I say y'call it the Beazlie. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 1900
| Interesting that some of the old vintage O's such as the Deacon Limited, the 1537 Elite, etc., are so popular now with enthusiasts but might struggle to motivate a reissue. The market has changed alot over the years.. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | OK, you got a factory and parts and your comfortable with them. If you need someone to walk the guitar around to shops in Brooklyn and Manhattan, let me know. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | The Beazle.
Paul, Why not have 50 prototypes made and then call it all off? If I recall correctly the only thing remotely covered by a patent/copyright is the peghead shape. Nothing protecting the body or p/g shape.
I don't believe that a complaint can be made until there is a rumble in the market place. Get them all sold before the rumble! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Great minds think alike, that was kinda my plan. Unless it went nuts and we didn't need to call it off, which would be great. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Lemme know if y'need a logo . . . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | ...or some boots! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | One headstock design would be based on the urn design currently used, but lose the "ears" at the top. Actually would be a pretty clean look. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Guitar Player rated the Ovation GP reproduction by eastwood as a best buy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 1889
Location: Central Massachusetts | fyi I emailed Michael Robinson of Eastwood Guitars re: the possibility of them doing a Breadwinner/Deacon repro and he says it's on his list -- "perhaps next year"... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| They will do well with it. I will be interested in seeing what the 12 strings look like. I have never owned a 12 string electric.... Almost bought a Rickenbacker, which is my first choice, so I will wait and see what they come up with.
Thanks for the heads up |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 1889
Location: Central Massachusetts | Now here's a thread from the past!
Hey all, just got a nice note from Mike Robinson at Eastwood Guitars and they are moving forward with a Breadwinner re-issue project! Sounds like they'll have prototypes within a few weeks.
Their GP re-issue was well received, this should be interesting... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | That will be interesting. I didn't much care for the GP's, but as a guitar they were nice and seemed reasonably priced. Considering there weren't that many original GP's made in the first place, a copy/tribute guitar seemed to make sense. However, there seems to be plenty of Breadwinners and Deacons out there already for reasonable prices and the key, especially with the Breadwinner was the bridge, pre-amp and pickups. I'm curious to see what they come up with. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 3411
Location: GA USA | NC, you could get a set of plans for an LP or whatever from Stewmac, and have a cabinet maker carve the body for you. Miles probably has a neck and a pickguard...
Never mind, I already blew your budget. But you could wind up with a custom job we'd all envy. Woody would finish it for you and make some nifty wood knobs and TRC. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | :D |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 3411
Location: GA USA | And, CWK, if the run is 10% too high. Save those back and make them the official OFC clubber of the year award. |
|
| |
Deacon/ BW factory new