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Location: Michigan | Anybody have a list of the models prodiced in black? |
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Location: SoCal | All of them? It was just a standard color..... |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Really, I just looked at the archive and there are alot of older models that only come in natural and sunburst. But most everything nowadays comes in Black...
BUT! I have pretty much given-up on black guitars, because you can see every fingerprint and pick track on them. They look pretty while they are new... |
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Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | "I wanna new tour bus fulla O Guitars"
OMA, can I steal that from you? Sara and I are doing up an acoustic version of that song. That line would be a fun inside joke. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | At one time or another the following models came in BLACK
Balladeer, Custom Balladeer, Pacemaker, Matrix, Celebrity CC57, Legend, Custom Legend, Elite, Custom Elite, Classic, Folklore, Ultra, Pinnacle, Balladeer LX, Legend LX, Elite LX, Viper, VXT, Adamas I, Adamas II, Al Dimeola, Balladeer 12-string, Legend 12-string, Custom Legend 12-string, Eclipse, Elite Special, Custom Elite LX, Elite 1537, Elite 12-string, Breadwinner, Elite-T, Elite-T LX, Tangent, Elite Bass, Mandolin, Country Artist, Preacher Deluxe, Magnum Bass, Ultra GP, UK II, 1987 Collector, 2008 Collector.
I may have missed a few. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Thunderbolt as well if include pearl black. |
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Posts: 482
Location: enid, ok | When i was quite young, a guy that worked at a music store that I hung around in took me aside and told me, "never buy a black guitar-or one where the finish is such that you can't see the wood grain. That's where they hide the imperfections in the wood." This is for solidbodies, mostly. And I have a few black guitars, but the price was right. But he was dead-on. I saw a breadwinner that was refinished recently-the body was two pieces of wood. I generally buy natural finishes for that reason. That, and they look so cool anyway. |
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Location: Northeast Ohio | Can the black finishes be removed to reveil the wood grain or is it truly not worth the hassle? Just wondering, does the paint dampen the vibration of the top? Also what about the thick clear coat on natural models for that matter? |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Pretty wood and good sound is not the same.
Pretty wood gets a natural finish.
I own a couple of great sounding black guitars. |
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Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | Originally posted by bowl playin boy:
Can the black finishes be removed to reveil the wood grain or is it truly not worth the hassle? Just wondering, does the paint dampen the vibration of the top? Also what about the thick clear coat on natural models for that matter? I found out the hard way they cannot be removed. It is a very hard, thick finish.
Anyway thanks to all esp. Gallerinski for the list. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I don't think I'd go with black & shiney.
I you just gotta have a black guitar, go with something like a UTE. Or at the other end of the spectrum... an Elite T. No issues with fingerprints there.
But at the end of the day, if it's a wood top, I'd much rather see the grain. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | A shiny black guitar is a bitch to keep clean, no doubt about that. Then again so is a black Ferarri. But some things are worth a little extra elbow grease.
As far as the black paint covering what's undernieth, well that's true and I do know that some builders will use the less visually attractrive woods for black guitars. But that does not mean they sound inferior. In fact they could sound better.
I know that Ovation build a small number of the 87 Collectors guitars in black. The reason was that they had a few soundboards that actually looked stunning. So much so that if they made them natural nobody would have bought the "regular" natural ones. So they painted them black to hide the "goodness". Or so I've been told.
I wouldn't buy or not buy a guitar because it was black. I'd base it on sound and feel. If a certain model was absolutely identical in both natural and black then it would just be a personal preference. Some guitars just look good being black - the Al Dimola model, the Takamine Bon Jovi model, Strats, etc. At least to me.
Toby |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Which reminds me of a topic I've been hesitant to bring up here. I know all of you who have "bearclaw" guitars think they are great, but I have to tell you, bearclaw is NOT a desirable feature. It restricts the vibrations on the top and reduces the sound. Back in the old days, it was my job to grade wood for the tops, and as pretty as it was, I was instructed to have any bearclaw tops painted. For the bast sounding guitar, what you want is an extremely tight and even grain.
A lot of the flaws that are covered up with paint are minor. There may be a small knot, or even an inadvertant mark with a felt tip pen that soaked in too much to sand out. Most sunbursts have some flaw in the outside, most solid colored tops have flaws in the middle. Does the paint change the tone? I really don't think so, but in some cases, the flaw in the wood that caused them to paint the guitar will. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
Which reminds me of a topic I've been hesitant to bring up here. I know all of you who have "bearclaw" guitars think they are great, but I have to tell you, bearclaw is NOT a desirable feature. It restricts the vibrations on the top and reduces the sound. Back in the old days, it was my job to grade wood for the tops, and as pretty as it was, I was instructed to have any bearclaw tops painted. For the bast sounding guitar, what you want is an extremely tight and even grain.
A lot of the flaws that are covered up with paint are minor. There may be a small knot, or even an inadvertant mark with a felt tip pen that soaked in too much to sand out. Most sunbursts have some flaw in the outside, most solid colored tops have flaws in the middle. Does the paint change the tone? I really don't think so, but in some cases, the flaw in the wood that caused them to paint the guitar will. One of the more interesting reads posted here today. It makes a lot of sense.
I recently had somebody at a GC show me a D-45 w/ bearclaw spruce. I suspect that he doesn't know this much about it (and he's a very nice guy to boot)..... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Many of our ears might be misled by our eyes. Fortunately, my ears aren't that discerning. I rather doubt, if blindfolded, I could tell the difference between a Sitka spruce vs. an Engleman spruce guitar, but I might tell spruce from cedar. |
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Location: closely held secret | I just knew there was a good reason why I didn't own any painted or Bear Paw guitars.
Thanks for that, CS! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | About 2 years ago I paid $50 for a pallet load of "outs". Sitka Spruce and Western Red Cedar.
Sometimes the Spruce looked more interesting with a wavy grain or darker line showing up. Probably just visual characteristics that don't impede sound.
I also learned with a -5 12 Custom Legend that you don't truly know how much spit and dead skin you produce until you play a Black guitar under bright lights. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Black lacquer finishes maintained correctly are beautiful. They can also be ruined in a heartbeat with the wrong polish. Learned the hard way on this one. |
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Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
Which reminds me of a topic I've been hesitant to bring up here. I know all of you who have "bearclaw" guitars think they are great, but I have to tell you, bearclaw is NOT a desirable feature. Yeah, but us guys are visually oriented. So whatever looks good, is good.
Would bog wood be good stuff? I've got a private source of 10,000 yr old hardwood that's been in a bog. It has made some spectacular furniture. Might there be a market for guitars? |
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Location: NJ | only if it's from a snipe bog . . . |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I've always been suspect of BC for the reasons CS mentioned. When I look at tops. I want straight and tight (ShutUp et al) |
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| I have natural and black guitars. No red, no blue, and absolutely no sunburst. |
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December 2008
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Location: Nashville | i am new to this forum and hope to spend some time getting to know my around. but for now, i need help. just recieved an Ovation cc245 as a surprise anniversary gift from my wife ( ha who else ) i have always been curious about these guitars even really wanted one in the 80's but not ever learned enough about them to have a favorite. my ? is ... is it normal for the back of the guitar to leave your pants leg looking like an oil change rag. the guitar is new and maybe it will rub off.. or it is shipping or warehouse dust.. i don't know if it was packed air tight my wife bought a case for it as well and it was in there... if this is a common thing and someone knows what to do about it i would be very happy to hear. may post this as a new thread somewhere but i just wanted to get the ? out there for now. it sounds great and i look forward to playing it and learning from you folks here in the community about this specific breed of guitars. thanks... Lee |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Welcome SUMNA...
No! That is not normal.
If it was damp, oily stuff, I would say someone wiped the bowl off with something.
If it is dry, powdery stuff, I would think that it is warehouse dust.
Either way, it is not normal. I have only received two new Ovations, and two new Celebrity's.
None of them left crap on my leg. They should have been packed with those little silica packs and it should be dry. (not dusty)
I hope that the guitar is alright, but if it ain't...Send it Back.
[Also, you could, and maybe should, start a 'New Topic' under 'General Posting' :cool: ] |
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Location: GA USA | That's good OMA, SUMNA sounds almost as good as TAFKAR, but not quite up there with Iffy. |
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Location: NW of Philadelphia | I would notify the store no matter what. If someone cleaned it with the wrong stuff, it could be a chemical reaction. If so, a new bowl is in order. Hopefully, this is not the case. |
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Posts: 283
Location: Portland, OR | There is at least one black Nakao N769 Craftsman. You can track the grain pretty easily, but the thing I like best is the contrast with the abalone. Kind of like the striking thing for me on the Central Park video is the way that contrast shows up on Simon's CL.
I heard that went to Carrie Fisher as part of their divorce settlement and recently sold for charity a few years back as I recall. Here's a link but doesn't say how much it went for:
http://customlegendfan.blogspot.com/2008/05/ovation-guitar-tribute-...
http://www.forbes.com/2001/09/19/0919pow.html
Anyone know? |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Black is Beautiful: '87C-5
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Location: Chicago | The finish on my Al Dimeola (1769 II AD) is sort of transluscent. You can see and appreicate the grain of the wood through the black finish: it would be tough to hide a serious blemish or some other trick. I'm not sure how they did it, but it is a thing of beauty. |
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Location: Munich, Germany | I love black guitars!
And yes, you can see the grain through the finish. Here it is a perfectly grained Engelman spruce:
Beste regards,
Kurt |
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | Nice one Kurt. Merry Christmas ! |
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Location: Tampa Bay area, FL | Or the super rare maybe-one-of-a-kind Viper T!!
(just had to add this pic!)
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Location: Chicago | Thanks, Kurt: my point exactly! |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I love Black guitars... I kinda like 'em myself...
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Location: Michigan | Ok guys here is what I am looking for. I do not know if it exists or what model it would be.
-Deep Bowl
-1 7/8 nut width
-Prefered not cut away
-steel string
-Black
-Electronics needed but no preference
Is there such an Ovation out there? |
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Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | Al has some black textured top non-cutaway Adamas. May or may not have electronics. They may not be 1 7/8 nut, though. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | The last 1-7/8 steel string was the old model Folklore 1114/1614. There were a few made in black but not many. Once they introduced the flushed mexican blanket everything went to 1-3/4 except the classicals. Today the only 6 string with 1-7/8 is the Classic LX.
Your best bet if you really want 1-7/8 would be to find a black Legend or Balladeer 12-string and just string it up with 6 strings.
Toby |
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Location: south east Michigan | Aren't twelve string tops braced to hold up to 12 strings worth of tension??
The 12 string top might not perform as expected with just six strings.
But what do I know... I'm just a friend of an idiot who sells gear for a living. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | "Grafter" is an old Pacemaker that "lost his head". I fabricated a replacement, but only with 6 tuners (nice ones, too!). Strung it up with mediums (.012-.056), and it "put out" real well.
As with all my critters, it was not destined to a dreary, neglected existence with a bottomfeeder luthier, so it is now enjoying life in a sunnier clime, appreciated, & played regularly!
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Location: Munich, Germany | Originally posted by twistedlim:
Ok guys here is what I am looking for. I do not know if it exists or what model it would be.
-Deep Bowl
-1 7/8 nut width
-Prefered not cut away
-steel string
-Black
-Electronics needed but no preference
Is there such an Ovation out there? Dave's idea might be the best regarding to costs, but I'd hate the idea of having a large, heavy twelve string head on a "six string".
The best would be to custom order your guitar the way you want it. Make sure before you do to know WHAT you want. A-bracing to my ears corresponds much better with a deep bowl center hole than the scalloped-X.
Your guitar could nearly look like this -
my custom order Country Artist in Black - KLICK!
Best regards,
Kurt |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
Which reminds me of a topic I've been hesitant to bring up here. I know all of you who have "bearclaw" guitars think they are great, but I have to tell you, bearclaw is NOT a desirable feature. It restricts the vibrations on the top and reduces the sound. Back in the old days, it was my job to grade wood for the tops, and as pretty as it was, I was instructed to have any bearclaw tops painted. For the bast sounding guitar, what you want is an extremely tight and even grain. Yes and no. True, Back in the day, when Adirondack spruce was plentiful and Sitka was considered a poor second, spruce lumber showing bearclaw figure would be down-graded or rejected. But it was on appearance only. Bearclaw certainly does nothing detrimental tonaly, or structually for that matter. It's just that now, much like Brazillian Rosewood or Hawaiian Koa, it's gotten some mythology (aka bull$**t) attached to it, and premium prices can be asked. Which is nonsense really. Some builder are stating that their guitars are made with "Master Grade Bearclaw Spruce. Not long ago this would have been a contradiction in terms. But with really good spruce getting more expensive and harder to find, what's a little marketing BS between friends?
Bearclaw only appears in old-growth spuce. Old growth invariably has a very dense, even grain structure which produces tops with the highest strength to weight ratio. (that's why carbon fibre works so well) The are other advantages to this grain density, such as it's velocity of sound, which gives bearclaw, and any other spruce of similar quality it's very quick, snappy response. The rippling of the longitundinal fibres which create the bearclaw patterns do not have any detrimental affects tonally, but neither do they produce any benefits. Bearclaw is no better or worse than comparable spruce without the figuring, it sounds good because of it's grain structure, not because a of cosmetic flaw. But the way it's being marketed leads the consumer to believe that the bearclaw figure is the key to it's sound, when in fact they are just asking premium prices for cosmetically flawed wood. Personally I like the look of bearclaw, and I've never heard a bad-sounding guitar with a bearclaw top. |
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Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
The last 1-7/8 steel string was the old model Folklore 1114/1614. There were a few made in black but not many. Once they introduced the flushed mexican blanket everything went to 1-3/4 except the classicals. Today the only 6 string with 1-7/8 is the Classic LX.
Your best bet if you really want 1-7/8 would be to find a black Legend or Balladeer 12-string and just string it up with 6 strings.
Toby The 1614 sounds perfect, anybody have a black one to sell? :) |
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | Wow Paul, what a clear explanation ....!! |
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Location: Scotland | A temporary abberation. I've just cracked a bottle of vintage Port. That's the last spark of clarity you'll be getting from me tonight. |
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Posts: 3969
| Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
A temporary abberation. The clarity of information was not the aberration, 'twas the lack of impatience and dearth of cynicism in the reply that surprised us all :D |
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Location: NJ | christ! . . . . DON'T get him "started" . . . |
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Location: south east Michigan | 'twas the lack of impatience and dearth of cynicism in the reply that surprised us all
Oh my.
Now all we have to do is sit and wait for the Vintage Port to kick in. |
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| Brad - Paul knows I'm yanking his chain. He and I are kindred spirits - neither one of us suffers fools and incompetents gladly. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | "...vintage Port"?
I learn something from that guy every time he posts. I didn't know there was such a thing! That's kinda like a "pre-war Esteban", ain't it? :D |
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Location: NJ | it's Pre-Fender Port. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Thanks for the info, Temp. I love this site. I have met some great people, and have learned so much. Do you have a book out? If not, you ought to consider it. I can guarantee you would sell copies to every member here, and probably a lot of other guitarists and luthiers too. You remind me of Jim Ricard who was head of R&D in the old days at Ovation. No matter what the topic, he had vast amounts of knowledge about it, and was willing to share it. Unfortunately he passed away some years back, but it's nice to know that if I have questions I can come here and seek out your knowledge. Thanks again. |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Interesting that you mention Jim Rickard. Do you remember his articles for Frets Magazine in the early 80's? When I was a kid I used to thrive on that stuff. It was Rickard's and Jim Siminoff's articles in Frets that got me really interested in the acoustics, physics and mechanics of stringed instruments. |
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Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Yeah, I used to get Frets magazine and then I would show it to people and say "This guy is a friend of mine." Rick WAS a good friend, as well as one of my bosses. He was legendary around there. We all admired him so much. Not only could he speak with authoriy on any subject, but he was "one of us". I mean, they finally let him make his own hours 'cause he just wasn't a morning person. So he'd come in late, but he'd stay late too. Sometimes really late when he was working on something that fascinated him. And there were a lot of things that fascinated him. I could go on and on. He was one of my hero's. |
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black finish ovations