|
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15676
Location: SoCal | Browsing the Ovation web page, I found that in the news section, they announce all the guitars that Al told us about last week. I learned something new about the slotheads. Never knew (or at least never thought about), that the 33 prototypes used the "original cloth fiberglass bowl". Now my feeling is that not too many years after the Adamii came out, the production of the bowls went away from the cloth fiberglass and probably contributed to the loss of sound. That Ovation is again using this type of bowl for the re-creation of #47 is probably contributing to the high cost but great sound.
Thoughts? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | all true |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 1445
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Didn't the moulded bowls come along shortly after the shiny bowls stopped?
Wayne |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2004
Posts: 271
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida | I agree Paul... I assume the resin that is used in the Lyrachord and GS models, is put between two molds and held in a large hydraulic press, it probably has copped fiberglass strands for strength while very good... could never be as resonant as a stranded, engineered fabric...
By the way here is a link to the #47, and all the other guitars Al spoke of... Click on the other links in the index to the upper right they are all there...
http://www.ovationguitars.com/?fa=news&art=396
The fiberglass boat industry (of which I am immersed in... in my "DAY" job) has gone thru the same transitions...
One method common to "solving" this problem in production boats at the high end (read Adamas into my analogy here) is a product called pre- preg... It uses a vacuum bag, for consistent thickness and glass/resin ratios, in production line set ups for high performance boats...
They have pre-cut exotic layers of fiberglass in any engineered set up you can imagine, traditonal 90 degree fabric, unidirectional, carbon fiber, kevlar, honeycomb, (what ever) of "pre" cut and "pre" wetted out, fabric, kept in plastic bags. When put in a mold some are catalized, most are cured by heat and pressure, (and some by ultraviolet light) in vacuuum chambers that also double as ovens... Some of these are really long for mast work 100 feet or more...
Smaller ones could be engineered for guitars because each piece is smaller... Anyway the point is Ovation surely "knows" of this technology, it is common in aerospace as well as marine... I guess the question is the extra stiffness of these engineered substrates, (read that as MAX sound transfer, as in Adamas carbon fiber sound boards) worth the extra $$$ And what would it sound like sharper, deeper, better??? It would cost some serious bucks too find out... But if the right blend of technology and sound could be found, the piece price would come down if done in any type of quantity...
Ab |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15676
Location: SoCal | Regarding the bowls, Standingovation asked me this
"Is the cloth fiberglass bowl the same technique they used on the first shiny bowls and called it "hand laid bowls"?"
cwkII, you may be the only person who can shed light on this. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Hand layup is just that, cloth done by hand with a vacuum bag.
The production cloth bowls were made on a 100 ton press, cloth laid in there and resign put in (we used a refillable handheld type cartridge). These are easy to spot, they have wooden neck blocks. Some of the later ones have SMC molded neck blocks but you can see where it was glued in.
Then there are the COMPRESSION molded bowls. You fold up this stuff that's like taffy, 30% glass fibers (1"long) and resign. It's a 300 ton press and the dies are at 350 or so degrees. These were what the applesause were, and matrix, medallion etc and every imported one. They crept into the line in the early to mid 80's. You can see these because the neck block is part of the bowl.
The bowls were never injection molded. This is a different production method and different material used. The plastic used in injection molding usually melts when heated (that's how it injects). The material used in compression molding is like an egg, once it's cooked, it's cooked. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | W-2
Somewhere in some back postings you discussed the esrly acoustics that had a superior sound because of the method of making the bowls.
Can you do it again or do we have to try to find those needles in this big haystack?
I vaguely recall that there was some ties to the Ashtabula, Ohio Corvette body fab shop where Fiberglass Corvette bodies were made. I recall it because two of my brothers worked there at various times.
Are they bringing that technology back?
Bailey |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | cwk-2
If you know where those posts are, how about bringing them up by posting to them, we have another 2 year old post revived, those would be great to see again.
Bailey |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7233
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Click All about the Bowls |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | I think they are looking at doing the cloth bowls again and they should be able to duplicate it easily, if not improve it.
Also with the aLeX guitars they are using this lighter MHC that I mentioned. Glad to see that happen. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2004
Posts: 271
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida | cwk2 check your e-mail plz... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Thanks Miles and cwk2
That was a great post and clearly defines the bowl's evolution.
Sound's like back to the future is the answer.
Bailey |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2004
Posts: 271
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida | Hey Bailey "Back To The Future" would be a good Add/Marketing, print, slogan for the NEW line of OLD Guitars the BIG O is working on releasing this year !!!
Probably have to pay the producers of the movie or who ever "OWNS" the rights to that title...
It would be nice if Ovation sent you and me a free guitar of our choice for thinking of the idea...
Is anyone LISTENING from the FACTORY in Ct. ???
AB |
|
| |
Ovation web page
