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Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Hey guys...
Wow! That "surf's up" topic has among the most responses I've seen on this site. It's almost turning into a battle ground.
Many of you guys are really extremely knowledgeable about Ovations and deserve a lot of respect for your knowledge about the guitars. I really appreciate that knowledge, and the fun/humor we have sharing it.
It's great to express our opinions and vent our frustrations, and as a result, disagreements are inevitable. Perception is EVERYTHING in life. This MOB is a drastic change to the ovations we are used to.
Let's keep in mind we share a love for an incredible brand of guitars. This site is a source of fun on a daily basis, and for me a much needed stress reliever during the workday. Keeping our input respectful and appreciative of each others opinions really makes this site and ovation "community" work. Let's keep it cool.
Johnny
(that freakin' hippie....) |
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Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 32
Location: Columbus, Ohio | I think the MOB is great. I'm buying one as soon as it hits GC here. Got a buddy who is going to put a California Santa Monica sunset on it from a picture I took. I hope Ovation markets this thing on VH1 and MTV. This cool little guitar could put Ovation back in the spotlight. Look at what it's done for this message board. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | If you one want I can order it for you. send me some e mail |
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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | If this is the guitar that puts Ovation back in the spotlight, they I give up. Is this the image we want people to have of Ovation? No wonder people have post on this site titled "Ovation and no respect"....Paul Hebert |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | PH, I can't wait to hear your opinion of the "Q" Unless you start substantiating your comments, I read them as you think the ONLY guitar Ovation should make is the Adamas, and frankly that's not the best sounding guitar they have ever made... so that doesn't make sence either. With every post now, your credibility is going downhill, where at the begining of this whole topic, you had some good points. I don't understand that either. If you think the MOB is ugly, at least it looks like a guitar which the Q does not (I like the Q by the way, I just think it looks pretty not of this earth... alien techno). I have heard shallow bowls that rival an Adamas in tonal depth, and deep bowls that sound empty and dead. I think the top and bracing plays a bigger part then the depth. I almost fell into the trap of "it shouldn't say Ovation on the headstock"... well, then I wondered why you didn't rant about the celebs and such that also say Ovation. Then I realized... The MOB sais TANGENT on the headstock (by Ovation in little tiny letters as it should be) so that totally blew your credibility.
Again, I respect your right to opinion, and I guess if you don't want any of us to understand it, that is your perogative too... I'd like to understand it. I like understanding opinions I may not agree with, however, in this case, I am lost. |
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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Miles, must we get so deep here? Yes I do think the MOB is an ugly guitar. What bothers me is that is an Ovation. I don't mind the Celebrity series. My nephew has a CCO1 with the mahogany top that is a nice little guitar, and he loves it. My bitching started with the tangent. I could not believe Ovation could make something so ugly that sounded so bad. And I must take example with this deep bowl thing. Call me what you must, but I have never played a shallow bowl that I liked. I remember the first shallow bowl I played. I had talked my brother into ordering a 1984 collectors series guitar. We were so excited when it came in. BUT, I will never forget his face when he strummed it. Where is the bass he said. Hell I didn't know, all I knew was that it was an Ovation. Needless to say, that guitar was sold rigt away. Now he is a Taylor fan, well that is awhole other issue. Yes I am dissapoined with the current state of Ovation. I am dissapointed because like most of us in here I have spent along time deffending them. But as has been said many times by many people in the group, sound has apparently taken a back seat to things such as appearance. And I believe the MOB is a perfect example of that....Paul Hebert |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | "BUT, I will never forget his face when he strummed it. Where is the bass he said"
Anyone who bitches about a shallow-bowl guitar not having the bass response of the deeper bodies is missing the point of the instrument completely. The lack of bass is not a fault with the guitar but the result of a DESIGN FEATURE. The super-shallow bowl is intended to reduce feedback when amplified and improve comfort when strapped on. It makes about as much sense as bitching that the Viper (new version) has almost no acoustic volume, or going to extremes, bitching that a Strat sounds crap unless it's plugged into an amp. As Miles pointed out there are exceptions but as a general rule if you want a big acoustic sound, buy a deep or mid bowl. If you want an easy way to play loud and minimise feedback, buy a shallow, but expect a payoff in the unplugged tone. It's a simple as that. Jesus, how many times do we need to go over this. I'm not a fan of the super-shallow guitars but I understand completely why they are a popular & successful product. I personally choose to go with the deeper guitars and deal with feedback in other ways. |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 38
Location: Seattle | Very very interesting. I must agree w/ those who feel that for Ovation to survive in a saturated market, it must reach out to a new demographic. I think part of Ovation's trouble in reaching new players is it's strong association w/ "old farts" like me, but she need not have to choose between who to please.
Sought out an MOB and played it. Looked very cool and sounded as good or better than anything in it's price range. I think it has what it takes to effectivly attract new round back players. I would think that would please a true Ovation fan, but then sometimes this forum resembles a lynch mob more than a fan club.
Meanwhile, if Ovation is sincere about reaching the hoytie toytie 5 grand bunch, then the Q is their chance to do so. Unfortunately, for whatever reason the MOB is in the stores and the Q is not. Is that a result of priorities or abilities? Given the 6 year gestation period of the Q, I tend to suspect the latter.
Long live Ovation. |
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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Paul T, let me see if I get this straight. I know good and well that a shallow bowl Ovation is a great stage guitar. Here is the problem. Almost all Ovation are shallow bowls! Oh excuse me a few mid bowls. So I guess the guy whos just wants good sounding Ovation is screwed. Oh but he will have a great stage guitar. In your words Paul T..JESUS!!!! |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | To BOTH Pauls!!!
"Anyone who bitches about a shallow-bowl guitar not having the bass response of the deeper bodies is missing the point of the instrument completely."
There seems to be this odd thinking that a shallow bowl sounds... well shallow. Anyone who thinks this played or heard a well made shallow bowl!!! Maybe most of TODAY's shallow bowls do not hold the sound, but they used too!!! I have heard it, and played it. Al owns one, a 12-string no less, and I believe there is one at the factory that can prove this point also. It is as deep as a deep bowl Adamas? (by the way I like the mid bowl sound better) No, it is closer to the mid-bowl sound. I have heard thin guitars that are terrible "live", but it doesn't have to be that way. I think that should be the bigger concern. |
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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Miles, what model does Al own? I would sure like to hear it? Is it a normal prouction model?...Paul Hebert |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | 1885-5
You will hear it on the OFC Cd |
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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Al, great I look forward to it....Paul Hebert |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I've heard it.
Miles is right.
I've also played a shallow bowl Custom Legend 12-string in a store that sounded awesome!! I even A-B'd it against a deep bowl model (same guitar, only a few years older). If I was prepared to buy right then and there, I would'a went home with the shallow bowl. It was also a helluva lot more comfortable to play. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | "There seems to be this odd thinking that a shallow bowl sounds... well shallow."
Miles, the sound of an acoustic guitar is governed by basic acoustic physics. An acoustic guitar is, at it's simplest, a Helmholz resonator. The Helmholz principle states that the body size of the guitar, coupled with the size of the sound hole(s) will dictate the lowest frequency resonance of the instument. The simplest demonstration of the Helmholz principle is to blow across a bottle. The bigger the bottle the lower the note produced. In a guitar there are other variables such as the top & how it's braced & the back/sides, which will affect the sound, but in most cases a small air cavity means a higher resonant frequency, or less bass. That does not mean there aren't shallow-bowl guitars which sound good unamplified, but my guess is that they are the exception rather than the rule. I have no problem with the shallowbowls, I just choose not to own any. As for the "live" sound, a lot of guitars I hear plugged-in, regardless of body size, pickup, preamp or manufacturer, sound pretty dire to me, but that's usually down to human error.
PH, your initial comment was that you don't like shallow bowl guitars, not that Ovation don't make enough deep bowls, which is a separate issue. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Paul T, you forgot one essential ingredient to the formula, and that is the top, which can as easily block certain frequencies as amplify them. Just the same (sortof) as a 10" Bass speaker can smplify the same frequencies as a 18" Bass speaker, the cone and ring must be designed specifially to accomplish this. The deeper bowl will generate the lower frequencies at a higher volume, requireing less work of the top. Now lets be clear, I don't think the combination, no matter how great, can go as low as a deep bowl, but I wouldn't want it to for my taste. I think one of the reasons Al's 12-string sounds so full, is that it does have rather deep tone, but also the shallow body may amplify the mids a bit better giving it a full sound.
As you stated it is all physics, but the top plays an important role. Maybe on the good sounding shallow bowls it's the top NOT amplifiying the high tones that makes it seem like it is a deeper tone, just at less volume. The 'ol thing about a tone pot on the guitar "adds high end" when in fact it takes it away.
I also agree that these better sounding shallow bowls may not be the rule... but WHY????? With all modern technology at hand, and the body and top being made of a synthetic material, you'd think an amount of consistancy can be achieved. |
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The Surf is making a lot of Waves!
