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Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 23
Location: Kentucky | Does any one use compression when recording with their O?
I’ve have a cheap Alesis compressor and also tried the built in effect on my palm studio, but never had any success in getting the sound I want. My goal is to lift the soft and decrease the loud. Not too concerned about fattening up the sound.
Could I or should I try a tube preamp to get the sound I want? I’ve heard that tube preamps can act as compression but not sure if that will color the sound too much.
Also when I mic my Elite-T, where should I place the mic?
Thanks |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Compression is an artform. If your goal is to "lift the soft and decrease the loud" you actually are talking about a little expansion and some limiting, which can be done with a compressor, but it ain't easy and the affect will be directly "affected" by the way you play.
For acoustic guitar I tend to record without any affects using the best mic's for the task, then do the modification with software. I find this much easier for recording most instruments because it gives you full control working with an unaffected "natural" recording. I can just loop the take and change the parameters until I hear something I like. Many times, especially with Bass guitar, I just cut or increase the volume of single notes and that's it.
As far as micrphones go, for acoustic guitar, a good place to start is a decent condenser mic (I use a Nuemann TLM103) between the soundhole and the neck about 8-10" away from the guitar (between the epulets for Ovations) and a Sure SM57 about 6 - 8" from the neck at about a 30 degree angle pointing toward the neck and toward the body. Adjust until you get the best tone you can on each mic. With these mics I use NO EQ, just adjust the tone with placement. When it comes time to mixdown, combine them, eq, or whatever to your own taste.
With Ovations, I tend to use the onboard pre-amp and a direct box. As there is no room noise, I can then do anything I need to with the signal post recording. The advantage of the Ovation pre-amps that I hear, is they sound very natural. You can even hear the string squeaks and strap movement, but no ROOM noise. I recently recorded a mando player and he used my Ovation. This was the first time I recorded a mando without a microphone and I swear is sounded more like a microphone than any actually mic'd instrument. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | I'm a big advocate of compression at the recording stage & do not consider compressors as an "effect" but as an essential part of the process of setting up the input gain structure & avoiding overload. (essential in digital systems which must not show anything over 0dB) However I want the compression to be absolutely transparent. I.E. I do not want to hear the compressor working, I just want to see it's effect on the meters. Acoustic guitars aren't particulary loud, but they have quite a wide dynamic range and can easily produce peaks which will overload a digital recorder. However a medium threshold setting with a gentle compression ratio of around 2-1 will usually do the trick.
A compressor is designed only to reduce the gain of loud signals, they will not make quiet signal louder unless the compressors output (gain) control is raised. This needs a little caution because for every dB the gain is increased, any system noise will also iincrease by 1dB, This is why many compressors also have an expander built in. An expander does the oposite of a compressor. I.E. a compressor reduces signals above a threshold or makes loud sounds quiter, an expander reduces signals below a threshold or makes quiet signals (such as noise) even quiter. So to "lift the soft & decrease the loud" you need quite aggressive compression coupled with an increase in the compressor's gain. However you'll probably hesr a change in tone (it'll sound "squashed") & could get noisy.
There has never been a better time to buy recording gear & there are lots of moderately priced compressors available either new or on ebay
all of which will do a decent job. Avoid the Behringer composer pro. I'm usually a big fan a Behringer gear but the composer pro can be heard working on even the gentlest compression settings & sucks the life out of everything. The built-in limiter is pretty good though.
Another option is to get a mic pre-amp or voice channel. These usualy have a compressor/expander, de-esser and EQ as well as phantom-power, level-pads & phase reversal. I have a couple of Joe Meek preamps & a couple of Symetrix voice channels & use them for inputting absolutely everything I record. Tube pre's are designed to color the sound, but it's usually in a good way. ART make a little mono tube mike pre & matching tube compressor (The Levellar) which are inexpensive & work great. We have a few of these in the Uni where I teach recording & I can't believe how good they are. |
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Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Paul,
Thanks for the above info, it's very helpful.
I was wondering about the ART Tube MP preamp, which I bought a while ago, hoping to add some tube warmth to my sound, both guitar and vocal. As much as people rave about these for the money, it just seems to add a lot of noise to the sound without really doing what I thought. Do you have any recommendations for settings, or what to listen for? When it comes to compression and preamps, I feel like a blithering idiot, but know that somewhere in their mystery lies a very helpful tool.
Thanks.
John |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Do either of you gentlemen have a website or address information for ART? I have one of their "Acoustic" effects pedals that I may have to send for service (but now reading about John's "noise" problem, it may just be something inherent to their products). I'm experiencing a good amount of "hiss" coming out of this thing. I mentioned it to my local tech guy ("Dave's Sound") and he recommended me sending it directly to ART (I believe they're in Rochester, NY but not certain). If anyone has any info, it'd be appreciated.
btw, John: Dave and his wife (your old guitar teacher's sister) are coming for dinner at my next gig Sat. nite. I'll tell 'em you said "hi!". |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Cliff, Art can be found at
http://www.artroch.com/main.html
John,
I've never had a problem with the Art Tube MP being noisy. It could be a dodgy Valve (sorry, tube) or it could be the way you are setting the input gain. There are two versions of this preamp, one with a VU & one with an LED ladder meter. Either way your're looking for 0dB on the meter. Dont use the 20dB gain boost unless your input signal is really weak, plug in your guitar or mic & adjust the gain till the meter on the pre is around 0db when played with a moderate attack. Use the balanced output & keep the gain on your mixer, recorder or PA at it's minimum, and the channel and master faders at 0dB. Adjust the output on the MP till you get a reading of 0dB on the mixer meters & then adjust with the channel fader as necessary. That should ensure noise is kept to a minimum. |
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Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 623
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Paul, thanks for the info. I'll give it a shot.
Cliff, have a great gig! I landed one myself for that night, otherwise I'd come and taunt Dave and heckle you! Heh, Heh. I still plan on catching one of your gigs!
Also, Cliff..I've used other ART products that were fantiastic and not noisy.
Thanks, guys!
Johnny |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I was hoping someone would provide the "opposite" view. That's it in a nutshell Paul. Some people like me want nothing on the recorded signal and some only do it with compression to get the best sig/noise ratio. Niether is the "right" way, and niether is the "better" way. They are both just ways, and in fact I hava had occation to use compression especially on Bass at the recording stage. |
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Joined:
October 2002
Posts: 23
Location: Kentucky | Thanks to all for the valuable points. I’ll print this thread and hang on to for future reference.
I’ve been eyeing the ART Tube MP Studio V3 for a while which this may make a good case for if it offers some of the Levelar’s features. Very little money in the budget & no room for a rack mount unit in my house. |
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Compressors, Preamps & Recording Advice
