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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Chris, the complaint is not that other companies in other countries are making guitars...
The complaint is that the Corporate Elite in OUR country is shipping our jobs overseas.
Due to Corporate Greed NOTHING is manufactured in the United States.
We don't make TV's, Radios, Computers, Coffee Makers, and very few Guitars.
This is not because we can't, this is because greedy people ship the jobs elsewhere.
As to a Korean worker buying a US Product... What product would he buy?
The USA makes NOTHING that he cannot get in Korea for cheaper.
Most, if not all, of our electronics are made in Korea or China. Also our tools.
Even our Pharmaceuticals are cheaper overseas than they are here.
The only thing that we used to make for export was Tractor-Trailers and Bulldozers...
And the Tractor-Trailer factories are leaving.
These Corporate People expect Americans to BUY all these products without Jobs to pay for them.
So, when you have an American Product that you are Proud of... Such as Ovation Guitars... You get annoyed when the JOBS are shipped overseas. And also the Quality of the Ovation nameplate is lessened by making inferior products and calling them Elite or Balladeer.
Personally, I will continue to buy Used, under-appreciated USA Ovations from evilBay and TJ! :p |
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Location: Yalova/Turkey | OK, Old Man Arthur, the trouble are companies in the hands of managers istead of former owners... cause managers having studied Business Administration and related subjects don´t care for the company, its tradition, people, products and also not for the country they belong to but just for profit, growth, cash flow and whatever they have learned. But in the end we come back to the same thing: If people don´t invent, build up their companies and lead them themselves, but sell out to managers, boards, share holders and so on, things will go the way they are going right now. But it won´t go long, because this system will have a major breakdown like it happened in 1929. I just hope their will be men like Kaman to start once again... |
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Posts: 4071
Location: Utah | Originally posted by Chris from Yalova:
We all got a bit too comfortable during the last 50 years or so... I think you're right on track there.
The Korean luthier would be wise to try to buy local first, if he can. Just as you'd be wise to try to buy from a local producer in Yalova. Keeping the money in your own economy is smarter than exporting it, at least if there is a significant trade deficit such as we have in the USA. Since we export so little, chances are that foreigners won't be looking at many Made in the USA products.
Educated people say that cheap imports are good for us because they improve our overall quality of life. That is fine until the foreigners have all of our dollars, while we are left with products that lose value and have a limited useful life.
We do indeed need visionary businessmen such as Charlie Kaman whose loyalty is with the long term benefit of his employees and customers, not with his quarterly stock bonus before taking the golden parachute as the company dies. We need to make products that the world wants to buy, and we need to make them here. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I sincerely appreciate the mini-MBA. But you seem to have missed one important fact. Fender did not CLOSE the ovation factory and move those jobs overseas. The factory is humming with workers building guitars. They're not the models you want? Well tough shit, get over it. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
Fender did not CLOSE the ovation factory and move those jobs overseas. The factory is humming with workers building guitars. They're not the models you want? Well tough shit, get over it. BINGO! |
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Location: New Hampsha | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
I sincerely appreciate the mini-MBA. The OFC: bringing enlightenment to the masses.
As far as Adamas is concerned, that factory is just about closed. Is Ovation much of a presence in that building anymore?
Oh, BTW, this is the Ovation fan club, not the Guild fan club, so the "get over it" was a downright stupid statement: Roughly equal to: "Hey Ovation Fan Club - your favorite brand is dying, get over it." Huh???? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Your favorite brand is not dying, it's just being built in a different factory in a different part of the world. If that bothers anyone then they should boycott and stop buying Ovations. Personally I was much more upset when I found out that the VW Beetle was being built in Mexico instead of Germany. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
Your favorite brand is not dying, it's just being built in a different factory in a different part of the world. If that bothers anyone then they should boycott and stop buying Ovations. Personally I was much more upset when I found out that the VW Beetle was being built in Mexico instead of Germany. Or Toyota in Kentucky? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Personally I was much more upset when I found out that the VW Beetle was being built in Mexico instead of Germany.
Good analogy. I like the analogy of the VW Beetle and the New Beetle...
Just like the new Beetle is not the old Bug, the AX and TX Ovations are not USA Ovations.
The hype is there, but the product is totally different.
And like the VW commercials that have the little black Beetle and Tommy Chong VW Bus, the new Ovations are using the USA Ovation as marketing schtick!
Unfortunately, the Korean Ovations are just an extension of the Ultra experiment.
Since the Standard Elite and Standard Balladeer and the T series are not the same guitars, as well as not being made in the same place, those models are Dead.  Just like your VW Beetle. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Personally I was much more upset when I found out that the VW Beetle was being built in Mexico instead of Germany.
the AX and TX Ovations are not USA Ovations.
The hype is there, but the product is totally different.... those models are Dead. Just like your VW Beetle. How are they different? I suspect that if you put a USA built Balladeer next to one built in Asia, you couldn't tell the difference. |
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Posts: 416
Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
I suspect that if you put a USA built Balladeer next to one built in Asia, you couldn't tell the difference. Perhaps I'm missing something here but are you saying there is no difference between one of my shiny bowl balladeers and an Asian built one? I've played both and they seem different to me!
I feel one was built when product was as important as profit, the other built when profit was the only goal.
As for the VW beetles, I went through a lot of air cooled VW parts in the early '70s racing formula vees, and I know from experience the mexican parts paled in comparison to the german made parts.
Seems to me, anytime a manufacturer shifts production "off shore" to save money, the quality of the product always suffers. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
How are they different? I suspect that if you put a USA built Balladeer next to one built in Asia, you couldn't tell the difference.  
That is the 1771AX and the 1771LX. Besides the color, the bridge is bolted on the AX.
This means that it is probably NOT routed into the top like the LX.
We know that the AX does not have the LX neck.
Since I have not handled an AX, I do not know it the neck is a glue-on, but I think it is.
I know that Jukebox Joe has done the Side-by-Side with T's and TX's, but since you chose Balladeer that it what I am using. Then we could talk about whether the AX list price includes a case. |
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Location: Michigan | oh boy this is starting to get good :D GWB |
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Posts: 888
Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | Gentlemen:
Good spirited discussion. Sorry to bring up such a divisive topic amongst friends. Here's my final post on this topic and I'll try to keep it simple.
I was originally attracted to Ovations because I felt they were innovative, different, high quality, beautiful and built by my fellow Americans...a tall order. When people choose to spend their money (like I do)on domestically made products, that's called economic patriotism...and that's who I am. I'm sure I'll die that way too. Any time a country's citizens refuse to purchase their own products in mass, there's never a good ending. "Jobless recovery"?...that's an oxymoron.
The whole thing with Fender reminds me of the time AMF purchased Harley Davidson. There was no love for the product and their customers knew it. Profit was more important that the product or the love people felt for their product. We're not buying hammers here folks...we're buying guitars. A product that brings enough joy into our lives that it supports an international fan club.
It will be interesting to see if Ovation's innovative culture will continue. I was pretty impressed with the LX features, Idea MP3 preamp, the Contoured Body...very cool developments. But my experience has shown that innovation usually happens where the manufacturing is. It's tough to be innovative in an office building. We'll see and it won't take long to find out.
Dave said "tough shit, get over it" and of course he's right in that we have no choice. But that doesn't mean I have to like it (or choose it). There are still a few O's on my must have list but unfortunately, they won't be new models.
Nuff said. |
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Elite AX?
