|
|
Joined:
July 2004
Posts: 338
Location: Omaha | Billy B,
While you could get another 20 (or 100!) opinions about alternatives to Taylors, I can't help myself; you really should play a couple Larrivees if you must have an all wood guitar.
The 03 series are about the same price as an Ovation (with onboard piezo and preamp), and with all solid woods, most that I have played sounded as good as their 05 (mahogany) and 09 (rosewood) series guitars. I just haven't found a better sounding or better crafted (both build and materials quality) production guitar out there. Larrivees are very consistent guitars; I'm inspired every time I pick one up; I'm sorry I can't say the same for Taylors (like a few others here).
That's my $.02 that you didn't ask for...
;)
Current Larrivees:
1992 05-OM
2002 09-LV |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | Larivees are terrific guitars. The lead player at our church has one and it's a damned fine instrument. However, today he was lamenting over a small scratch in the back. I pointed out that I never have that problem.....
He goes thru a small eq board to get a good sound out of it plugged in. I had Big Blue today and the OP 24 didn't need a thing to sound good.
I wouldn't tell anybody who loves their guitar, that they have the wrong guitar. If they feel as strongly about their guitars as I do about mine, then they are doing just fine.
Just don't sit there and tell me how wrong I am. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Just a point about the Taylor Expression Pickup System. Taylor had their user message board closed down because there was so much negative opinion from people who had bought guitars equipped with this system. The ES system, despite the hype & input from Rupert Neve simply SUCKS. They tried to reinvent the wheel & failed, dismally. The ES may well sound great in a store or at home, but in the real world night-after-night, show-after-show, at concert volume, piezo technology at this point in time does a better job. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Taylors are not ice cream, they are ice milk. Lo-carb lo-fat ice milk.
As we used to say years ago they are GSOs (guitar shaped objects)
There are so many other options for non-O guitars, I'd exhaust them before going to a Taylor. I would say that choosing a Taylor over a colonoscopy would be a good choice though. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | I won't say anything bad about Taylors. They are a nice guitar. They just don't make me smile when I play them. They do make me wince, however, when I look at the price tag. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 123
Location: Massachusetts | I have been wanting to get another acoustic for a while now. I have an S771.
I'm looking used and really want a custom legend, mid bowl that isn't black. Billions of black and CCB shallow bowls though, don't want that.
The other part of me wants a used Taylor. I've been jonesing for their low end 314ce which is $1500 new...for that you can get a new custom legend and the Ovation blows it away for looks and sound.
But the 300 series is very bright sounding, almost Ovation like. You have to move up to the 400 and higher series to get any kind of bass and mid depth.
Used they are still $1100 for a 3 year old guitar which is just nuts.
Oh, I compared a Taylor 314ce to a brand new Adamas CVT I really wanted bad and the Adamas had better bottom and a brighter top but not much definition in the middle. Between the Taylor and the Adamas the Taylor won but between Taylor and Taylor the 300 series is pretty weak and overpriced.
Oh, I did play and Elite LX against the 314ce and the LX was very warm and bassy and blew away the Taylor. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2002
Posts: 651
Location: Australia | I own one Taylor (714) and two Ovations ( CL & Adamas).
The Taylor is a fine sounding acoustic but I always seem to find myself reaching for an Ovation.
It's the playability of the the O's, the general feel and the best necks (and electronics) in the acoustic world.
Also, I must agree on the Taylor Expression System, it really does SUCK. Nice in theory and that's about it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga. | I used to play a Taylor, albeit not the top of the line (a 310). Nice guitar for what it was, and I used an LR Baggs M-1 top plug in with. The 310 was quickly showing the wear and tear of gigging and I also got tired of fussing with the EQ settings to get the sound I wanted. Saw a good deal on my Elite T and never looked back. Now I just plug in and play. Still trying to put away a few bucks from each gig to get an Ovation 12 string to replace the one I foolishly sold a couple years back to buy that Taylor! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Fort worth Texas | Corvairfan,....thats the line I played the low end 314ce I had the same opinion and the 310ce which was even cheaper sounded great to me.
I still love my O though.
What do you guys say about the claim by Taylor that their expression system stops feedback almost completely since it uses magnet sensors instead of piezo crystals,... they claim that when you attack using piezo systems the sound quadrouples causing feedback and distortion.
I dont know if I agree with this but I do know in certain situations I have had trouble getting my O up in the mix even with the OP-40's notch filter,.... usually it makes since cause its a small stage or the stage volume is just way too high.
Ideally I want an acoustic electric that dosent feedback,..period. Is there such an animal? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Ideally I want an acoustic electric that dosent feedback,..period. Is there such an animal?[/QB]
yes it is called the viper |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | Picture in the local paper today. REO Speedwagon did a concert and one of the guitarists was playing a modern Viper. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | Kevin Cronin uses the EA68 Viper for his stage acoustic. He has a longtime association with Ovation, and was one of the poster boys for the 1985 Collectors' Series. The other in that pic is one of our own beloved.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | ? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Billy Blaze:
[QB]
What do you guys say about the claim by Taylor that their expression system stops feedback almost completely since it uses magnet sensors instead of piezo crystals,... they claim that when you attack using piezo systems the sound quadrouples causing feedback and distortion.
QB]
If they are making such a claim then they do not understand the relatively simple physics involved.
Feedback happens when a PA or monitor system amplifies the signal at sufficient volume that a microphone or pickup receives it at the same level as the source sound. This is know as "unity gain". What then happens is the sound from the loudspeakers is again amplified through the system and you have a feedback "loop". The big problem with acoustic guitars is the energy from the sound system sets the guitar top in motion, so it really doesn't matter whether you have a piezo, a microphone or a magnetic pickup, the acoustic physics and the resulting problems remain the same. The Ovation Viper works well because the top is relatively stiff because of the semi-sold body, so it's almost impossible to get a loop happening.
For what it's worth, my experience of the ES system is that it's feedback threshold is significantly lower than a piezo system. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . If they are making such a claim then they do not understand the relatively simple physics involved. ."
Since said claim is being made by their Marketing Department . . . . . .(click.) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Fort worth Texas | ok...here is what they say word for word.
"For the past 30 years the vast majority of acoustic pickups have used a source known as piezo crystal. Piezo is a square law device meaning that if you double your attack the output of the pickup quadrouples and so on.
The harder you play the worse it sounds.
Piezo's require a pre-amp just to function, both to match the high empedance leveals and to correct the undesireable native sound that the pickup itself produces.
In the end, however, you still hear the voice of the piezo crystal as well as the distortion it produces when you play hard." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 95
Location: Fort worth Texas | Hey Tony,
I know you posted about a 615ce? I looked up the current price of that guitar and it retails for
3,628.00....ouch!!!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Billy Blaze:
ok...here is what they say word for word.
"For the past 30 years the vast majority of acoustic pickups have used a source known as piezo crystal. Piezo is a square law device meaning that if you double your attack the output of the pickup quadrouples and so on.
The harder you play the worse it sounds.
Piezo's require a pre-amp just to function, both to match the high empedance leveals and to correct the undesireable native sound that the pickup itself produces.
In the end, however, you still hear the voice of the piezo crystal as well as the distortion it produces when you play hard."
Yes, but it has nothing to do with feedback threshold. We all know that piezos are far from perfect, but they are practical & can be made to sound pretty damn good if you know what you are doing.
The best-sounding pickup I have heard so far has to be the LR Baggs I-Beam, but it's virtually unusable for me because it's feedback threshold is even lower than the ES system. In fairness, the ES sounds OK, it just has a way to go before it'll convince me. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 71
Location: Charlotte NC | My chiropractor recently found out I play guitar and brought his Taylor in for me to check out. I thought it had a nice sound. Somewhat fuller and warmer than my 1771LX but I wouldn't say remarkably better. It was a big thing and it felt like I was holding one of those gigantic guitars the guys in fiestas down in Mexico play. He said he got it on a private sale for a little over 3 grand. Heck, for that much, I could get another LX to leave at my office, another one to keep in my car, and yet another one for each of my kids! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15680
Location: SoCal | I've posted this before, but about a year ago, I found a music store that had a Balladeer Special (?? the one with the satin face and wood rosette?) with new strings on it. I played it against several Taylors and it was a much better, fuller guitar. When you actually listen with your ears instead of your ego, O's compare very very well against a great number of very popular guitars. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | I still have this churning around in my head:
"They are a glass of warm 1% milk."
Let me add - Why have a Garden Burger when you want a Thick-n-Beefy. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . .Topic: What do you guys think about Taylor guitars . . ."
- I usually try NOT to.
". . . and why? . . ."
- I have no REASON to. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 873
Location: puerto vallarta, mexico | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Yes, but it has nothing to do with feedback threshold. We all know that piezos are far from perfect, but they are practical & can be made to sound pretty damn good if you know what you are doing.
The best-sounding pickup I have heard so far has to be the LR Baggs I-Beam, but it's virtually unusable for me because it's feedback threshold is even lower than the ES system. In fairness, the ES sounds OK, it just has a way to go before it'll convince me.
is the i beam what they put on the rainsong paul? it had a mic and a piezo, and was a nightmare playing infront if the amps. (not bad in the parlour plugged in.) i thought it was the thin carbon fiber body. maybe both. i couldn't even begin to play with the mic on without making the patrons wince from the WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Russ, every Rainsong I've seen with electronics has had Fishman and as far as I'm aware none of the larger companies are installing the I-Beam. It was probably the internal mike causing the problems. In my experience unless you have the mike & pickup on separate outputs, a very high quality sound-system & a competent engineer, internal mikes are usually more trouble than they're worth.
With the Exception of the I-Beam I'm a big fan of Baggs pickups, especially the LB6, which is the only after-market piezo pickup which comes anywhere close to the OPP in terms of output, string-to-string balance & feedback rejection.
As an alternative to Piezo pickups, the Baggs M1 magnetic is stunning. To my ears it's bettter than the Sunrise & the Vanden Mimesis (the original Scottish handmade version of the Fishman Rare Earth) |
|
| |
What do you guys think about Talyor guitars and why?
