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Location: Warren,Pa. | I have a '97 Collectors', and the slothead feature is a classy touch. Can someone tell me (in technical terms) why a "12 fret" design sounds better than a 14? Something to do with the bridge placement? My '02 CL 12str. is my main guitar and, while I'm fond of it, I'm wondering about seeking out a slothead 12 fret 12str. Any opinions?? John <>{ |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | the bridge is two frets further back on the top, abiut 1.5" |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by cwk2:
the bridge is two frets further back on the top, abiut 1.5"
...........and that position places the bridge right into the centre of the lower bout. Many believe that because this position is less stiff in relation to the bracing, that the top can be driven more efficiently. The increased break-angle at the nut caused by the slot-head also has an influence on why 12-fret slot-heads (pretty much regardless of make) sound good. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Right you are Mr T. (although you don't look like Mr. T) I think the sound is better on the 12 frets that don't move the sound hole back too. When that moves back the X bracing moves too so while the bridge is more central it's is closer to the side braces and a tad stiffer. I suspect this is a small issue however, like many nitpicking details of guitar design. However as guitar experts, self-appointed and other wise, these details are ever so important to us all!
Paul, your thoughts on this? |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | The above is correct, I'm sure....but it seems like the body is often a little bigger on 12-fret guitars(extended out to the 12th fret), and I wondered if that might help as well(more sound board)?????
Roger |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | Let me jump in here for a moment and say...you 2 are just the ones I was hoping for feedback from! I wanna hear more, but here's what I'm considering: My wife will not permit me to aquire another guitar. I MUST sell my current 12str.(mid bowl CL) to get the $$ for another one. Assuming I have the patience to look carefully over time, what previously-released Ovation should I be looking for? The Pacemaker is OK, but not up to par with a CL. Tell me, Oh Wise Ones... |
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Location: SoCal | I have the GC acoustic and the Custom Legend 1658 - both slothead 12's. Both dated - acoustic for the GC although there are a/e's; 1658 has stacked tone/vol knobs.
Both are outstanding examples of a woodtop slothead. |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | Pardon me...I think I just found my own answer. How about a CL 12 model 1158. OK...how impossible a search is this gonna be? Is it worth the trouble, or should I keep what I have? I know it's a matter of opinion, but your opinions are highly respected by this relative newbie. |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | Yes, Tony...also the 1658. |
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Location: SoCal | Not going to be easy...your 2002 CL 12 should sell fairly quickly if you ask a reasonable price.
Be prepared to act (bid) immediately if you see a 1158/1658 of either finish.
Had the acoustic from 1981-1991 - great projection but always wished I had the a/e; didn't want to hardwire a p/u and the old Lawrence centerhole was potential disaster with the chord hanging down. A/e 1658 is hard to find - little compromise on the acoustic side but not much. |
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Location: SoCal | While I suspect that it's not a slothead, you might want to hold off and wait for the LX 12 string. It was shown at the summer NAMM show and is reported to be very very good. |
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Location: Converse, Texas | bauerhillboy: Check your email. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | As I see this puzzle come together - one more opinion:
My 1615 Pacemaker feels better and plays cleaner and louder than any other 12 string box guitar I have touched. The Adamas SMT's and ME's I have found in stores have shown a better action, feel and control over tone unplugged. Plugged in the options for control expanded greatly.
I took a LOF (leap of faith) and connected for the Custom Legend 12 from Strummin12 - it is remarkable! The OP 50 is all I could ask for and the feel of the neck is outstanding. Unplugged in the backyard while jamming - I would appreciate the Pacemaker for its projection. For more serious playing the CL12 exceeds expectations.
I still drool for a texture top deep bowl GS bodied ANS necked slothead Adamas 12 string. If they throw in a Longneck option my Wife would be receiving a Lexus...
Lets talk prices. Pacemaker $300ish, CL12 $900ish, SMT or CVT or ME $900-$1100ish, my dream $2000-$2500ish. :eek: Choose your level of comfort and style. |
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Location: Scotland | Bill, I'd aggree about soundhole position and the way it affects the position of the bracing. That's why Martin & others have been making a big deal about "pre-war style forward-shifted bracing" which is supposed to loosen up the top on a 14-fret.
John, I think the 12-fret thing may apply moreso to 6-string guitars, at least with Ovations. While I much prefer the look of the old 12-fret slot-head 12's, the newer solid-head 14 fret versions generally sound better to me. Better articulation and separation if I had to put it into words, though you'd need to compare them for yourself. The other issue is that changing strings on a slot-head 12 is a major pain in the ass. |
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Location: Wooster, Ohio | Personally I think that you should consider a new wife. What is more important marital bliss or a new Ovation. You better check your priorities.
Steve |
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Location: SoCal | Temp's right. I love my 69 GC 12 string. But push comes to shove, my 93 Adamas 12 string is a much better guitar. But that doesn't mean that I don't play the 69. It's wonderful. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | For 6 string guitars, I totally agree. Without question my favorite configuration is a wide neck, 12 fret slothead. That's what makes my Josh White and Folklore Deluxe so special. It would be interesting to see what a good quality wooden box guitar sounded like in a wideneck, 12 fret slothead configuration. I don't know ... maybe a Martin, or somethng like that. And if it looked kind of "vintage", that would be cool too. |
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Location: SoCal | Recently, someone was interested in my 1659 CL 12-string (std headstock) to perform with - told him that he should look to the 6759 or an Adamas. Electronics as the prime reason. GC is great but again dated pre-amp (mine is an acoustic.)
Between two sisters, the 1658 and 1659 CL 12's, there is a difference in the sound - enough to use one over the other? Probably not but a good reason to have both :} If I do sell one, I will keep the slothead.
Over all of the 12's that I have, to include the Adamas I w/OP-50, I'd probably go with the 6759 if performing (haven't played the SMT or CVT.)
New slothead CL or Adamas textured top (with updated pre-amp)? I'd buy it. |
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Location: SoCal | Dave,
I just don't know, maybe if it was a really nice one. Might be afraid to play it though. And all of that checkering in a couple of years.
And the "box" - just doesn't feel that comfortable anymore compared to a rounded back.
Would look good as a decoration on the wall. |
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Posts: 338
Location: Omaha | stadingovation wrote:
"It would be interesting to see what a good quality wooden box guitar sounded like in a wideneck, 12 fret slothead configuration. I don't know ... maybe a Martin, or somethng like that. And if it looked kind of "vintage", that would be cool too."
Actually, there are some awesome sounding "boxes" out there: Martin is making some, but I find the tone on those "hit and miss" - maybe with age some of them get much better.
Larrivee's new slotheads, on the other hand, are incredible sounding right off the wall. I'm partial to Larrivee guitars; they're my "box of choice" (hey, that might make a good thread here...). I've only met a couple Larrivee's that weren't impressive guitars, and usually they're made out of a body wood Larrivee calls "blackwood" I believe. |
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Posts: 265
Location: Warrenton, Virginia | "...........and that position places the bridge right into the centre of the lower bout. Many believe that because this position is less stiff in relation to the bracing, that the top can be driven more efficiently. The increased break-angle at the nut caused by the slot-head also has an influence on why 12-fret slot-heads (pretty much regardless of make) sound good"
Paul T. Agree with your comment. This is standard, I believe, with all 12 fret slotheads.....my Martin is designed same way...sounds great. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Life is what happens when you make other plans.
It is also the greater reward! |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Boy, this has got me excited! My latest project is restoring an 1114 that was just listed on Ebay. Remains to be seen how much repair it will require. Kim & John may get some more of my business. I suppose I could replace a couple of frets, if I had to. It appears I may need to add on some more room in my "O"rphanage, at the rate the group is expanding! |
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Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by Tony Calman:
And the "box" - just doesn't feel that comfortable anymore compared to a rounded back.
Interesting (to no one)...last night I was at the local store and was playing through their extensive stock (ha!) of acoustic boxes. The only one that felt comfortable was a tiny little Gibson thing with awful tone (perhaps because it was so small?). Everything else was just so...boxy...it felt like I was throwing my warm around a package just to get at the strings. I think I've been spoiled by my shallow bowl. I did check out the used Std. Balladeer 12-string they have (medium bowl)...that was comfortable, but still 'bulkier' than my Elite.
I guess I'm destined to only play shallow Os and solid bodies. :) |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Cruster, if you ever get to Elderly in Lansing, try a Larrivee parlor guitar. They fit nicely, and the sound is not boxy(although certainly NOT with the depth of a dreadnought, either). The only problem is the short scale and 12-fret-to-body neck, it makes the neck feel "short".
Roger |
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Slothead 12 fret-to-body
