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February 2002
Posts: 21
| Greetings, all.
Just wanted to pass along a link to an article that was in the Hartford Courant on Saturday - it was a front page story about the Adamas Q and featured quotes from Frank Untermyer and Rick Hall. Also had a photo of Frank holding the Q inside the article - nice to see some of our friends gettings a little recognition for their work.
http://www.ctnow.com/hc-adamas.artjul17,0,2649889.story |
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January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | I like the bit about the string plucking machine, I always thought that something like that existed someplace.
Of course my wife says... "I didn't know strings had feathers!". Always the farmers daughter.... |
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Posts: 266
Location: Tampa, Florida | I do have limited understanding of the topic, but why would an all solid CF Ovation go for $7k when Rainsong and CA are putting all solid CF out there for $1500 to $2500? |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I guess you would have to listen to one. |
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Posts: 398
Location: So. Cal. | Miles - well put. It's the same reason why you can buy an Adamas look alike from Temple City, CA (we saw it at NAMM) for $250.00; or a $150 all solid wood acoustic guitar versus $10K+ Martin D-45. |
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May 2002
Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | stonge
Thanks for the link to a great story, us technical types always love to hear about future technology, while we live with our ancient guitars that were revolutionary when we bought them. The Q may be the future, but the LX is the present and it seems to be doing well.
Bailey
(I just spent 2 weeks tweaking a '66 Fender Mustang that my daughter gave me with Schallers and a Seymour Duncan hot rail and vintage single coil, damn thing sounds and plays good without the "pat pending" tremolo that never comes back in tune. Cheap guitar with quality components, not as good as my Viper but "Verrry Interesting" when set up right.) |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Minor point but it was about 8-9 years ago and it was the other Cayman that got it rolling. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | btw, Stonge;
Good to hear from ya' ;) |
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Location: NJ | hey stonge
we need to kick it old school again real soon |
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January 2002
Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Zchord, i think you touched on a great point.Why would anyone pay $5500 more for a guitar that probably wont sound any better than the $1500 CA guitar? I would not!
I think Ovation has totally missed the boat on this "all composite" guitar concept.While they are still trying to get it off the ground 8 years later at $7000,others have succeeded in making a great composite guitar at a reasonable pricepoint.
I am probably one of a few who have played all three guitars(Rainsong,CA and Q).Let me just say that the CA IMHO is much better than all the others. |
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Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | At $7K it really isn't for sale, but only a concept/promo.
I would think it's a way to fish for enthusiasm.
Then there is always someone out there with ample funds and even more enthusiasm. |
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Location: NJ | why buy a maserati for 200K when you can buy a kia for 12K?????????? |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Al,your analogy should be why buy a Mazzarati for $200k when you can get a ferrari for $12k..You see in my opinion the CA is not a Kia its a Ferrari for less money.So lets not pretend the Q is this superior product.What, did ovation get this rare carbon from Brazil or Italy or something? Ive played them all.The CA is solid and great quality.And by the way CA is in the market two years now and selling very well while the Q is still trying to be developed 8 years later...Al,dont take this the wrong way and i know your business is Ovation and you have to tow the company line but this Q is getting under my skin.Ovation needs to "shit or get off the pot".Please dont insult me with a $7000 price tag on a carbon guitar that is no better than a $1500 guitar that even has the traditional bluegrass boys turning their head and converting to carbon.When did Ovation ever do that? |
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Location: NJ | Sam
I don't "tow the company line." I speak my mind. in fact I will refer you to another post on the message board...
there are customers for the kia and the maserati both are cars both do the same thing some feel that one is better than another.
or we can use the old ice cream analogy, some like chocolate some like vanilla.
As far as I know, it if difficult to compare a product that is not yet available with something that is available.
I have played CA guitars in fact I saw one cut in half and was not real impressed with the sound or the craftsmanship. my opinion.
Will the Q be better? I don't know, but it has to be better than the q597 |
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Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Apropos of today's anniversary, I thought the Q was something like the Apollo moon flight, in of itself, not much use to anyone, (just look at the price tag for both) but they both are really cool, and they wound up (or will be) a platform for significant advanement. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | From what little I have heard of the CA, it sounds like what you'd expect from a guitar without a round back. I have been listening to a LOT of acoustic guitar lately and maybe I'm at an advantage because for most of the last 40 years the only reason I owned an acoustic was to practice on or write so tone was never a big concern and I'm primarily an electric player... so I only know what I like. More recently, in the past few years, I see this urge to make guitars like "guitars used to sound". Well I'm sorry, just because you are first, doesn't make you best. All wood (read "made of wood") seem to have a skew in tone to either thin or deep. The better ones like high-end Martin's have a rich mid-range. Well I'm sorry, to my ears that's all wrong. There shouldn't be any peak anywhere. It should be consistant tone and volume, up and down the neck, and as wide a frequency resonance as possible.
I love the phrase "listen to how the mids on that guitar just punch" to which I respond "Yeah!!! MAKE IT STOP!!!!!"
Furthermore, I think this desire for that "classic acoustic" sound is detrimental to many artists. We are in the midst of the Frederick Maryland Blues Festival. Last night I listened to a few artists, of which Bo Weevil was one, and the winner of the evening who will now go to Memphis for the finals... but I digress... Most of the artists had that "classic acoustic" sound, so most of their fine musicianship was lost, unless you were in the front row. Bo's approach is a little different I guess, aside from being a great musician, he EQ's his guitar (or the mic channel he's using) to sound good. Basically, he EQ's his Taylor to sound like an Ovation. From the first strum, before anyone realizes how good he is, he has everyone's attention because it sounds so good.
Anyway... back to the topic at hand... I think CA and Rainsong and others are trying to make their composite guitars sound as much like their wood counterparts as possible. To me that's just missing the point, they should be trying to sound better. I guess it's the same reason I ride an American made, big V-twin motorcycle, that's not a Harley. I wanted something aspiring to the future and to be better, not something that aspires to be a copy of itself.
I must say, even the Q597, although it does not project like one would expect from an Ovation in that price range, the overall tone and volume across the neck is typical Ovation, and hence to me, better than most anything else. As I have said in the past, and keep in mind this is coming from someone not emersed in the Acoustic world, when I saw my first Ovation and learned why it had a round back, I figured in the near future all guitars would be round backs. Enough ancient stringed instruments have round backs, maybe they even realized the benefits back then. |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | Not having played or heard any of the aforementioned guitars, I still say that this is the kind of passionate opinion that makes for darn good discussion. My take is that the Q is a prototype like the first AC Cobras, probably not enough available to sell cheap. Miles has injected a theory of acoustics that splits players down the middle, do you boom out like a bluegrass player or do you have a jazz/Django balanced sound accross the spectrum? I vote for one booming guitar and one Django, every one of us has at least two guitars. He only thing I don't reccommend is two wives, the sex fiend and the great housekeeper, in wives you can find both in one. That is what is great about wives vs. guitars.
Bailey |
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Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I probably shouldn't split hairs cause for once someone really understood what I was saying.. but the analogies loose me. I think of bluegrass as "punch" or midrange, not "boom" like bottom end, or deep. I think of Jazz, being almost the opposite with more bottom and top, and not as much middle. I think Classical is maybe the epitome of broad-spectrum balance, based on what tunes classical players typically play. Having said that, they seem to be the biggest offenders of pushing the mid-range to an almost annoying bark.
I think all of these "classic" or "standard" sounds could be much better sounding. To use an example many of have heard, I'll mention Kaki King and give a nod to whomever recorded her. That is one of the best sounding recordings I have heard in a long time, especially of an Ovation. The bottom booms, the top sparkles, the mids are clear and not penetrating, and even the percussive work on the guitar is on par with the rest of the mix. It's all very clear, nothing muddy, nothing piercing. Unless you are an engineering guru, getting that out of a non-Ovation is nearly impossible, or at least I have not heard it that I recall. Another good example is the intro to "Crazy on You" by Heart and on some of their other quite stuff. Now I don't know if those are Ovations on that recording, but they sound like I invision an acoustic guitar should sound for the most part.
I don't know a better way to say this, but it seems like so many try to "achieve" the sound of metal strings attached to a wood block.
It's odd to me, that in a genre such as Classical, a Piano player will do whatever it takes to make an even, full, rich sound across all 88, but somewhere many guitar makers got sidetracked into aspiring to stuff all of the wonderful tones a guitar can make into a rather small notch in the frequency spectrum.
Speaking of wood blocks... even if a little off-topic... drummers, or people who record drummers who insist a drum kit should sound like an assortment of wooden blocks with reverb really annoy me too. |
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Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | Right on Miles
Jazz is treble, Blugrass is Bass, good Ovations are a balanced sound accross the spectrum. Now I have to recommend three guitars or one very high end Ovation like an Adamas. The alternative is a mandolin and an Adamas and a shiny bowl early 70's Balladeer. Or, a banjo, a Dobro, and a stand up bass, a mandolin and a Custom Legend. Damn, I just described a bluegrass band with cwk2 on Dobro.
No more speculation, it leads to frightening possibilities.
Bailey |
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Location: Scotland | CA & Rainsong are fine as long as you don't need to play above the 3rd or 4th fret. |
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January 2002
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I don't have a dobro!
I guess I'll go with Miles in that the compost guitar should be better and reach past the present. The first Qs did that sound wise. They had other construction problems and I guess they've got those ironed out. I have not played the most recent so I can't say how they are. Those from 1-2 years ago were nice but not as good sounding as the originals.
As far as price, when the concept started in 96/97 I wanted a 10K tag and it would have carried it just fine. Now we are 7 years down the road and the landscape has changed quite dramatically, with two alternatives in the market and the retail storefront scene quite different from 1997. It should still be high but the guitar needs to justify it. This guitar looks like something with soundholes that look like design rejections from the MOB(and ya'll know how I feel about that pos). We'll see how it goes............. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Okay;
Coincidentally, this article made it over to the AcousticGuitar message board as well (and naturally, fell victim to the expected "O'bashing" . . but I'm not gonna go there . . ).
The article KIND of alludes that Ovation is claiming that they "invented" the all-carbon guitar. Therein lies controversy, as others are claiming that RainSong and/or CA were way ahead of them. This is a topic of which I know "nada". I've played the other two (albeit briefly) and I played the current Qincarnation. I adored the feel and sound of the Q (but admittedly, I CAN be "biased":-) Not knowing the span of history of this genre of lutherie, I ask:
"Who did it first?" |
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Adamas Q article from the Hartford Courant
