| ||
| The Ovation Fan Club | ||
| ||
| Random quote: "It's much too late to do anything about rock & roll now ..." - Jerry Garcia / Grateful Dead |
 RAREST OVATIONS!!
| View previous thread :: View next thread | |
| Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2002-2003 | Message format | |
samova |
| ||
Joined: January 2002 Posts: 970 Location: Atlanta,Ga. | I thought i would begin a topic about the rarest Ovation solid body/semihollow body and acoustic guitars...I would like to open it up for discussion and get other ovation guys views on this..I have made a list of ten solid body/semihollow body models and ten acoustic models..I have them listed in what i think is the rarest 1-10...These are in order of rarest and hard to find rather than on sound,looks or quality.They are production models or models slatted for production.Not custom order or one off models.No collectors series as we will probably open atopic for those separately.So, here is my list.I would like to see others views on this.. Solid body/Semihollow 1-Blue braedwinner 2- 12 string hurricane 3-White Breadwinner(gloss finish not textured) 4-Black Breadwinner (gloss finish not textured) 5-Deacon 12 string 6-Breadwinners (early electronics,large single coil pickups) 7-Ultra GP's (all finishes,especially the honey burst) 8-Limited 9-Viper 3 (black or white finish) 10-Tan breadwinner Acoustrics 1-Adamas (slotted headstock # 27-62) 2-Contemporary folk classic(only 4 made,different color bowls,blue,red,black,green) 3-Josh white model 4-Early classicals(with the large inlayed ribbon rosette,shiny bowl,rounded brazilian bridge) 4-Glen Cambell models (shiny bowl,five point brazilian bridge)(12 string G.C. models with his signature on headstock not on trus cover) 5-Early balladeers(shiny bowl,ribon rossetete) 6-Any shiny bowls with sunburst finish(very few made) 7-Adamases with serial #77-600(Production models signed by Charles Kaman) 8-Any early 1971 acoustic electric with the early baldwin electronics. 9-Adamas one cutaway models (with single apalette and wooded volume /tone knobs) 10-Adamas one 12 string models(walnut volume /tone knobs) [ February 10, 2002: Message edited by: samova ] [ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: samova ] | ||
| |||
| Mr. Ovation |
| ||
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think the Blue or "Bluebird" Viper that were made for Glenn Campbell are pretty rare. Rumour has it that 10 were made and are out there someplace. I know of one. Also, the PF-22's may or may not fall into this category, as a bunch were made, but they are pretty hard to come by. | ||
| |||
| alpep |
| ||
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | Sam I am not sure I understand the purpose of your post. If this is your definitive list of the rarest guitars how did you come about it? is it based on production records? is it based on public demand? is it based on highest price on a sold item? Certainly I can agree on the guitars with low production numbers but just because a guitar is rare does not make it valuable. We here that love ovations have a certain value that we feel the guitars should bring. Unfortunately the general market place dictates which guitars are rare. If you are trying to tell someone to invest in an early classical guitar because they are valuable you may be mistaken. For example fender made very few swinger guitars yet they are less valuable than the strat of the same year even though the production on the strat was in fargreater numbers. I would hope you clarify exactly what you want from this posting. I think your list is very good but what purpose does/will/can/it serve. there are a ton of Breadwinner deacons limited out there I have probably owned and sold over 20 in the past 8 years. Rare? I am not so sure...more information please | ||
| |||
| samova |
| ||
Joined: January 2002 Posts: 970 Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Al, the purpose of my post is to identify and open a discussion among other ovation fans the "rarest" ovations built..As i said before in my earlier post ,no collectors series no one off or custom built models.Simply, rare production models in terms of production numbers and how hard they are to obtain..We can certainly not put a value or say they are all valuable or expensive they are simply rare models.I began this topic so ovation fans can discuss what models they feel or know to be rare.I have made a list from my experience and from Speaking to other ovation collectors,Long time employees at ovation and from Early price sheets and catalogs that i have(1966-current) which show which models were made and for how long... So i compliled my list of which models i feel from my data gathered are the rarest...I open it up for discussion...Al, i think we can hardly say that they made a ton of the limiteds.Although you and i may have seen a few in our lifetime ,the fact remains that there were only about 200 built.Hardly a large production number.... As far as the Glen Campbell blue bird my understanding was there were around 10 built but those were built for Glen Cambell himself and not as a production model.This applies to the Jerry Reed thunderhead model,about 10 built but not for production.Although rare they would not fall under the regular production catagory..The PF22 im not sure if those ever were sold a s a production model.I understood that they were about 20 total built but prototype six string and bass models..Bill, can probably answer that question....... | ||
| |||
| Mr. Ovation |
| ||
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I believe you are correct on the Bluebird being only built for Glenn. And I think the PF-22's were "slated" for production, but they just nixed it... One kinda nice, and rather odd model.. is the Eclipse. I know a bunch were made, but they do seem pretty scarce. I would have to add the Fretless Magnum and Fretless Typoon to this list, as those were production models (listed in the catalog at least) and are extremly rare. I did find one of each, so I know they exist... :) Miles | ||
| |||
| alpep |
| ||
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | sam I am think I understand what you are trying to say here but a model that is rare is not always desireable and one that is desireable is not always rare. I just think it is a rather subjective area. I am not so sure that I would put a cerain color of a certain model guitar in the rare category but I am not collecting guitars by color so for me it is not an issue. as for my statement about the breadwinners, deacon, limited please reread my sentence I lumped them all together like I tend to since they are all basically the same guitar. the average person would not know a limited from a deacon from a breadwinner, a funny story. I went to a music store that I often buy from they had a limited hangng up with refinshed body and dimarzio pickups I got it cheap because the sales guy thought that the previous owner put the relief cuts in the body himself He never knew the limited existed. In fact I think I may even still have that guitar kicking around here.... | ||
| |||
| Paul Templeman |
| ||
Joined: February 2002 Posts: 5750 Location: Scotland | An interesting discussion.I think there are two distinct collectors around, those who love instuments, their aesthetic & technical qualities & the sounds they make, & those who want to turn a profit. There's nothing wrong with either, though I fall into the former camp. I think that is a factor that conditions both price asked & price actually paid. Among my current Ovation collection I own a wide-neck Adamas with a serial number in the early 200's & a Deacon 12, I paid bargain basement prices for both. I couldn't care less if my Viper 3 is in the extremely common natural finish as that does not diminish it's ability to sound great & earn me money as a performer. My UK2 was allegedly owned by Neal Schon, so what? A Glen Campbell-owned Bluebird went on Ebay this week at over $2K. Hopefully not to a fan who can't manage a first-position C chord. check it out, there's a few decent pics http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1510281612&r... A US dealer sent me some pics of a prototype PF22 & surprisingly was asking what I thought was sensible money. There have been lots of the Eclipse model on ebay of late & in about 10 years of serious Ovation collecting that's the only Storm Series model I have ever seen in the UK. There has been an Eclipse in a UK shop for months, at more than I would pay, but it's not an unreasonable price for a 30-odd year old semi-American guitar, but rare does not always mean saleable or desireable. I have a Tornado with a "Condor" logo on the headstock, it's an Ovation in every respect. I paid less than $150, anyone fancy giving me a grand for it (Joke) I need to find out more about the Tornado/Condor/Hammond variant, so if anyone has some infomatiom please let me know. Regards Paul | ||
| |||
| Mr. Ovation |
| ||
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think Alex may have some info on the Condor. As far as the rare/collectable and worth conversation... I think those are totally different conversations. By the way, that Bluebird on eBay did not actually sell. As far as I know the reserve was not met. I heard rumor that he want's $10,000 for it. But anyway... back on earth... My definition of rare is just that... hard to find, or very few made etc.. I think collectable is purely opinion. Folks collect for very different reasons. I play and also own a studio, so that influences what I need in the way of guitars. My collection is based on my a-retentive/virgo tendancies to have matching pieces and samples of each. In a previous post Al mentioned lumping Breadwinner/Deacon/Limited into one group, and to me not only are those drastically different guitars, also have drastic levels of appeal to me. The limited to me, is an afterthought. I have one, because I have a collection. The Deacons are nice, because they are wood finished, but... the Breadwinner screams Ovation. Unique design, unique finish, unique electronics. Sam has several Breadwinners in different colors.. That's cool for him, but to me once I had one breadwinner, in each of the configurations, that's it. The blue one is a special case, as only a few were made. Maybe the UKII is a better example. I have two, one with each style of bridge.. that's it. Other may want all of the colors, and the bridge doesn't matter. To me the bridge makes it a different guitar. But again.. that's me. That's just my opinion... ....I could be wrong (D. Miller) Miles | ||
| |||
| Paul Templeman |
| ||
Joined: February 2002 Posts: 5750 Location: Scotland | Reasons for aquiring a collection could be a whole new topic in itself. I decided I wanted one example of every Ovation solidbody, simply because I loved them when I was a penniless kid & am now at a stage in my life when my disposable income allows me to indulge my teenage fantasies. I too own a recording studio, I'm also a musician & lecture in studio production at a University, so all of that affects my choice of instruments. I have a Magnum 2, which does everything I want from a Bass, I neither need nor want a Magnum 1. I wouldn't give a Magnum 3 or 4 house-room. I passed on a PF22 because I thought it was hideous, screw the rarity & reasonable price. I want a Preacher Deluxe but not a 12 string because I have a Deacon 12 & I do not need two electric 12 strings. I do not care about colour (though I do take your point about the bridge design) I make a decision to buy on condition, originality (who wants Dimarzio super-distortions on a Viper anyway?)& sound. I've passed on a couple of cheap maple-bodied Vipers because they weighed a ton & had zero acoustic sustain....Practicality, I want to play them, not put them in a cupboard & hope I can make a killing whenever. Thanks for the tip about the Condor, I'll contact Al & see if he can shed some light. This is turning into a pretty cool site already. Regards Paul | ||
| |||
| samova |
| ||
Joined: January 2002 Posts: 970 Location: Atlanta,Ga. | I think Bill Kaman can answer the PF22 question,whether they were sold as production.I understand that about 20 total were built and stayed at the factory.I have had 4 six string models and two bass models.Now as far as the color of the guitar in some cases it does make a differenece.If you look at the Blue breadwinner.They appeared in the price sheets for one year only and only about 50 were built.They are more rare than the other breadwinners and are more sought after from what i have seen.They have sold for well over $1000 dollars, the 4 four that i have seen and followed.I have not seen any other breadwinners sell for over $1000.The closest was a minty tan breadwinner on e-bay for $795.00...So, color does sometimes make a difference in a guitar... | ||
| |||
| Mr. Ovation |
| ||
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | As I mentioned in my post above.. the Blue Breadwinner is a special case.. I think it is collectable because of the short run, rather than it being blue. If it hit the catalog, and they only made 50ish and it was paisley pink.. I would consider it collectable too. I don't agree on the PF-22's being hideous, and to me a set-neck (or even neck-through) beats out ANYTHING for play-ability and tone. The PF-22 bass is awesome for tone and sustain control as bascially it's a little different body with magnum electronics and bridge. I have a Viper Bass, and the only difference between that the PF-22 besides the body shape is the Viper has a bolt-on neck.. And there is a world of differnce in the way they play. | ||
| |||
| Beal |
| ||
Joined: January 2002 Posts: 14127 Location: 6 String Ranch | The PF22 never went into production. Around 25 were made. Maybe 10 basses The Blue bdwnr was the smallest production, then the Tan or buckskin as the marketing people wanted to call it, then black and white. towards the end there were other colors and the hunchback ones, satin natural and barnboard. All the Ovation solids never sold enough to justify keeping them in production. At the end we were making just about any combination of parts and colors just to get rid of the inventory, gotta keep those bean counters happy you know. The Condor was a "Tornado" guitar made for Hammond organ and had some big pickup over the bridge that would go through the Hammond Box and make hammond organ sounds. Advanced concept for the time! I think Ovation got the contract because they were low bidder, maybe the only bidder. They were red to black sunburst mostly and only lasted about a year, although history may show it was a little longer The rarest of the rare Ovations would be the Williwah bass, the single pickup version of the Typhoon. I'm sure I spelled this wrong, it's supposed to be one of the Pacific storms, the guitars were the Atlantic storms. Check out the original catalogue, it's in there. We made as many of these as Gibson made Modernes in 58. | ||
| |||
| Mr. Ovation |
| ||
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I forgot about the Williwa! I remember reading about someplace. Never have seen one. I thought my Fretless Typhoon and Fretless Magnum were pretty rare.. I guess it has been said before, but it is worth repeating.. It's just too bad the solid-bodies didn't take off better. As I recall growing up, if you couldn't afford a Fender or Gibson you were relegated to Sears Roebuck (which I guess in retrospect now a Tiesco still brings in a good penny.. but I digress..) Ovation as far as I recall had the best "middle of the road" answer. A great guitar, built by a reliable name in guitars, at a reasonable price. One of the reasons that more Breadwinners, Deacons, Vipers, and UKII's and even Ultra GS and GP's don't show up in market I think, (besides the obvious less of them made answer) is that many folks just won't give them up. I'm sure as Al pointed out... not being able to swap pickups easily may have contributed to the ultimate demise as I am even guilty of stuffing a Dimarz DHB into the bridge position on my Viper.. then later a Carvin M-22. It was a fad at the time... I outgrew.. My comment in the PF-22 is that it is an awesome guitar. I have one that has a slightly different shape then most with an extra scalping right about where your arm hits the body on the lower bout.. It came with a note in it, "This was the Prototype for the PF-22".. I guess having a Proto of the Proto that was never mass produced makes a good campfire chat. | ||
| |||
| alpep |
| ||
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583 Location: NJ | have owned a couple of pf 22 guitars and basses. In all honesty I thought that they would have been able to compete on the market. the body style was realy cool the neck felt great it was a comfortable guitar to play and was set neck or some sort of variation of set neck. Now the two guitars I am familiar with one had blade (bill lawrence type) pickups and the other had a split pickup like a fender electric 12. both sounded grat. I don;t know if they would have sold any better than the previous solidbody guitars but I was impressed and coming from me a jaded guitarist who once quipped he has "owned almost one of everything at some point" that says something | ||
| |||
| Mr. Ovation |
| ||
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I just noticed in the "History of the Ovation Guitar" book.. that Tom Scholz is playing a double-neck Preacher. I wonder how many of those are around. I believe I have at least a picture of him playing a double-neck Deacon at a concert in Hartford... however, I guess considering it was the late 70's.. Maybe it was a Preacher that just "looked" like a Deacon.. :eek: | ||
| |||
| Beal |
| ||
Joined: January 2002 Posts: 14127 Location: 6 String Ranch | There was only one double neck preecher and it was for Scholz I don't remember a double neck deacon but sam says he has one so I guess I was out sick that year. The eclipse is just a bowl painted tornado. We were getting the bodies unfinished from Germany, they were plywood and they got sanded through on the sides and the underneath piece showed. If it wasn't too bad it bacame a sunburst, if it was real bad it got set aside. eventually the pile got so large something had to be done so they sprayed them with bowl paint (the necks too, there was a pile of them too) and we bought some cheep hardware from Helmut(Schaller) and there was the eclipse. Like they say, when you got alot of lemons...... Not to burst bubbles but we did this alot. The solid colors were never over a stunning looking pieces of wood. I suspect everyone else does this too. On the subject of collectability..... there's been alot said by smarter people than me but I think it comes down to these things 1. how rare is the instrument? 2. what is the intrinsic value/quality of the instrument. 3. What is the "cool" factor 4. How bad do you and others want it? | ||
| |||
| samova |
| ||
Joined: January 2002 Posts: 970 Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Bill, you were not out sick that year.The double neck deacon was built by Gremlins after the factory was closed at night......WEll, actually it was custom built for me but Not by Ovation.All the other parts are original ovation parts,the tuners,necks,bridges,knobs switches,etc...The body was custom built by a very high end cabinet shop here in Atlanta(yes, i have too much time on my hands)..It is made from one solid piece of the most beautiful mahogany around.I designed the body and made a template.I think it turned out better than i expected..The cabinet shop matched all the contours and pick up routings just like the original deacons.They had a custom paint shop in there shop that even matched the red stain finish from another deacon i had...The other thing that will be custom ordered is the pickguard(one piece pickguard)...I will post a pic when it is completely finished.It is being assembled as we speak..It is a beast!! | ||
| |||
| Mr. Ovation |
| ||
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7247 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Thanks cwk2 you neatly listed what we have been skirting around... 1. how rare is the instrument? 2. what is the intrinsic value/quality of the instrument. 3. What is the "cool" factor 4. How bad do you and others want it? After re-thinking, I believe I did see Tom Scholz play the double Preacher.. it may have just "looked" like a Deacon through the haze.. and it was over 20 years ago. I did see one other "home built" double-neck Deacon on eBay by an ex-employee. However, it sound like the one you are working on Sam is a much finer instrument. As I recall the one I saw, the necks were more of a V then parallel. Now as far as guitars on the rare list that I'd be interested in.. That Double-Neck Preacher seems to fit the bill (sorry about that pun) 1. how rare is the instrument? A. One Made 2. what is the intrinsic value/quality of the instrument. B. If Scholz played it, it must have been pretty nice. He has rather picky tastes when it comes to sound. 3. What is the "cool" factor Too many "cool" factors to list. 4. How bad do you and others want it? ***pleading the 5th as to not incriminate myself*** [ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Ovation ] | ||
| |||
| Beal |
| ||
Joined: January 2002 Posts: 14127 Location: 6 String Ranch | Actually Scholz didn't like the double neck. It took two years to get it to him, it didn't have dimarzio pickups, and couldn't be retrofitted and there was some other stuff he grumbled about. I never heard of him using it, not even on the night I delivered it to him! Jees, you'd think he had to pay for it or something! | ||
| |||
| hologram |
| ||
Joined: March 2003 Posts: 12 Location: australia | i own 7 guitars, a mixture of fenders and rickenbackers and one ovation breadwinner. i think alot more of the breadwinners will have to die before their considered rare and i'm not sure they'll ever be considered valuable. i bought mine in 1995 for $650 australian dollars and i guess it's still worth $650 australian dollars and it's a 30 year old guitar, whereas all my other guitars have all more than doubled their purchase value. i didn't buy my breadwinner for investment value, i bought it cause i liked its appearance and still do, it is very limited in tonal diversion it has a very dark sound but i'll never sell it because i like it to much, even if i were offered 4 times what i paid for it, i wouldn't sell it. in general a rare color will always increase a guitar's value but the fact i'll never part with mine, may be an actual indicator to a potential rareness, no supply increases demand. i think the breadwinner, hasn't become a sought after guitar because in the 70's fender, gibson, yamaha, etc, all went alittle odd in production and design, the whole period was disasterous and created the begining of the vintage market because players started buying older guitars in order to obtain a well built guitar. unfortunately for ovation they released the breadwinner into this market-mayhem and never really got the look-in they deserved. if the breadwinner had been released into a more stable market, i believe it would have been sought out as a good alternate to the other manufactures. there seems to be a stigmar reguarding the breadwinner, i saw an interview with jackson brown's band and they were bagging, jackson brown for playing a breadwinner. my breadwinner is simple and i love that, it reminds me of the simplicity of the gibson les paul junior but the les paul junior has become a very very collectable guitar, so what makes a solid bodied guitar rare or not, i don't really know but i think the names, fender, gibson and rickenbacker have alot to do with it's rareness. | ||
| |||
| playadamas |
| ||
Joined: August 2002 Posts: 398 Location: So. Cal. | How about the Richie Sambora's double neck Ovation/Elite 6-12 string. I have only seen one on eBay a couple of months ago (for a lot of $$$). I would certainly love to get my hands on one. I am not sure if it was a production model though. Please enlighten me. Thanks. Just me and my Adamas! P.S. How about a double neck Adamas (woven top)!!! | ||
| |||
| Woz |
| ||
Joined: March 2002 Posts: 389 Location: RI. That small State out East | I just "found" a Millenium on ebay last week. I hope to touch it in the next day or so... The fact that 75 to 200 guitars were made (that is the word on the street) Did cause me to be more aggresive in bidding. It does have the Cobalt Blue color (that looks great) fretboard planets inlayed...Rare? Few made. It is an Adamas CVT on steroids... It hit my "cool factor" rating. My early Adamas 12 1688-8 is my best toy. It made Sam's top 10 (I think) Art and beauty is in the eye of the beholder... | ||
| |||
| Bob Borzelleri |
| ||
Joined: March 2003 Posts: 3 Location: Folsom | I'm not sure I understand all the criteria at issue here, but if we are talking about scarcity, I think my Legend Limited 1651 (circa 1981) fills the bill. Anyone out there got one? | ||
| |||
| Paul Templeman |
| ||
Joined: February 2002 Posts: 5750 Location: Scotland | The Legend ltd was about as "limited" as the custom Balladeer was "custom". They were made for 3 or 4 years, mybe longer. The only differences to a regular Legend were the stereo electronics & the nutmeg finish. Nice guitars but I'd say not esspecially rare or collectible right now. They crop up occasionaly and don't fetch any more than a regular Legend in the same condition. | ||
| |||
| Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] |
| Search this forum Printer friendly version E-mail a link to this thread |
| This message board and website is not sponsored or affiliated with Ovation® Guitars in any way. | |
| (Delete all cookies set by this site) | |