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Joined:
July 2004
Posts: 812
Location: Hicksville, NY | My sincere thanks for all your replies. Let me explain further the event(s) which lead to my departure from this ministry.
For the past seven years, I was a member of an English Ministry that is a part of a larger Korean Presbyterian church, located in Queens. As of this writing, the EM is going through a lot of transitions and changes. After the departure of the former pastor, a lot of its members either followed wherever his new church may be, or simply decided to seek a new place of worship elsewhere. I was one of the few who decided to remain, and give the new pastor the shadow of a doubt.
In my seven years there, I had my share of struggles. But I also had my share of numerous triumphs and have watched myself grow in faith as His servant in His house of worship. With the exception of missions and its Internet-based group, I had served every branch of the ministry from greeting and ushering, as well as, teaching ESL classes, and serving as a deacon-in-training for a year. Most recently I was a member of the praise team where I played acoustic guitar and once in a while, back-up vocals.
As per the new pastor, all members of the praise team, became part of his so-called "leadership" team, due to the fact that we are in front of the congregation, leading them into praise and music. He also made us attend a mandatory meeting and rehearsal every Saturday from 9 a.m. to 12 noon.
Unfortunately, I have health issues to contend with, and spent a considerable amount of time in the hospital because of it. Since my release, I have my daily struggles and adjustments every morning when I wake up, that it must be alleviated by a combination of simple exercises, prescription medication, and a strict diet, which can be time consuming. Without it, I am unable to function in an effective, efficient and productive manner for the rest of the day.
I explained my condition to the new pastor. It's not that I could not make it during the Saturday meetings, but I just could not make it on time, as per my health concerns. I may arrive late for at least, 30 minutes because of it. I also added that I have such a strong desire to follow God's will and to continue serving Him, thus there had to be some exceptions to the rule. Instead, the pastor asked me to step down.
Sadly, I decided to make this past Sunday (10/15/2006) my last attendance there. I was just another warm body among the congregation praising and glorifying God that day. |
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Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Sounds like all this church spoo is getting a little corporate. If it walks like a suit and quacks like a suit, and dresses like a suit.....
Anyhow this always seems to make people mad when I tell it, but that is not my intension. We were at a nice southern dinner and after everyone got done talking about the football game, and our dear president it got onto all the church services they go to, Saturday, Sunday and Wednesday night. They wanted to know about me. I said I went to the church of Callaway for 4-5 hours every Sunday and sometimes on Saturday when I could get a tee time. As far as Wednesday night Bible study I replied that to me religion was like the times tables, you learn it when you're young and use it the rest of your life. However once you're past 30-40-50(you pick the number) you don't need to relearn how much 9X9 is. It got real quite and they said "You're not from around here, Are you?" and then went on to debate if I had a real point or not. We left before the final verdict arrived. Since we've not been asked back for dinner I just assume it was unfavorable.
At least one guy agreed, he's joined our foursome.
My simple point it A. learn the how to act Christian stuff early.
B. live by it. Just do it. You don't need to read the book again! |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 5331
Location: Cicero, NY | "You're not from around here, Are you?"
:D :D |
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August 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | That would explain your 36 handicap! :eek: :eek: |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | I own a set of clubs, so therefore I can be called a Golfer. There are poor Golfers and better golfers. There are some that go for the company, some that go for the walk'in n cuss'in and some that go because they truly love the game and it is part of them. They feel the call to endure, struggle and perfect their game.
But it is just a game.
Your relationship with your Creator (and we each have one, however we view it)is something different. I have also learned this is not the place to have a serious conversation about that sort of thing. It can only end in chaotic defense and internet spoo.
I've been to dinners like that too Bill. Usually it ended in an Amway presentation. |
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Joined:
March 2006
Posts: 1634
Location: Chehalis, Washington | Originally posted by schroeder:
Amazing how unChristian some paid Christians can be. Some of them even invade other countries. It's an interesting point you bring up, and I think that it speaks to the whole reason behind the first post on this thread.
The perception that the vast majority of people, including those who do believe, is that Christians or other religious people are or should be better or on a higher level than everyone else. The reality is that NOTHING could be further from the truth. I've been let down by more Christians than non in my life, and I'm not the only one. It's like at some base level, we forget that we're all still human, even the Canadians (sorry guys ;) ).
I have a good friend who's a long-time Christian, who refuses to go to church at all because of a bad experience he had in a church (with church people) when he was younger. This happens all the time. It's kind of like your story, Bill, that you go when you're a kid, and then move away from it as you get older, and you develop a different kind of view of "churchy" or "religious" people as a whole. If you stay involved, you expect that people that are like you there will live up to all your expectations and not let you down.
The problem is that the term "un-Christian" doesn't mean anything. Being a Christian doesn't mean you don't screw up. It doesn't mean that you're better than anyone else. People usually expect different things of you, but you don't stop being a faulty, prideful, selfish human being, like we all are.
On Bill's analogy again, the truth is it doesn't matter if you ever go to a church, read a Bible, or sing a song. At the basemost level, not a single piece of that matters. Arguments over denominations and traditions are less important and more subjective than arguments over politics. To be a Christian is to come to grips with the fact that you DO screw up, and to try to live your life striving for that perfection - something you can't ever possibly achieve on your own. So, to be "un-Christian" would be what - to NOT acknowledge that you screw up? I think that the basis for virtually all dissapointment in people of a "religious" or "spiritual" persuasion stems from the assumption that they are better (or think they are) than everyone else.
Unfortunately, a lot of "Christian" people use heir religious status or image as a front, an excuse to glorify themselves or a way to appear better than those around them, and cause a bad image to appear on those who don't deserve it. The same holds true for non-Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, even athiests - any time we are given a position or perception of authority, as human beings our innate desires run directly contrary to what we should know to be right. It would be the same if we assume that all Islamic people are genocidal maniacs - generalizing like that is as ludicrous as assuming that someone is without failing just because they are religious.
As humans, we can't ever achieve perfection. Taking this back to the main topic, even pastors fail, ministers have a bad day, and I still curse when I hit my toe with a hammer. The problem is putting your trust in PEOPLE and not what you believe in your heart. People will fail, guaranteed, no matter where they are in life. Even Billy Graham had his failings.
If another Christian (or anyone for that matter) does something that hurts you or bothers you, you have the choice to either confront them over it for the sake of reconciliation, or let it go and move on. Either way, you will always have the experiences along the way, and this is not the end of the journey. Sometimes we are led different directions for a season, sometimes to grow, sometimes to rest.
It's hard to see the whole path until you're standing on the mountain top. |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Amazing how unChristian some paid Christians can be. Some of them even invade other countries. some with guns, some to proselytize as their beliefs are "better"...how can we tell the faithful that held their beliefs in the Soviet Union, China, and elsewhere under Communism that a "traveling bible salesman" knows better. |
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Joined:
March 2004
Posts: 629
Location: Houston, Texas |
Amazing how unChristian some paid Christians can be. Some of them even invade other countries. some with guns, some to proselytize as their beliefs are "better"...how can we tell the faithful that held their beliefs in the Soviet Union, China, and elsewhere under Communism that a "traveling bible salesman" knows better. All the religions in the world can't all be right. The height of arrogance in the world is to believe that your religious beliefs are correct.
Yet higher education and the scientific process of peer revue and repeatability has proven that anyone, in any country, of any belief, can create a nuclear weapon.
It's time for all people, everywhere, to realize that we must recognize what the human race doesn't know and what it does. And to stop believing in ancient rituals and beliefs in an afterlife which has no scientific basis whatsoever.
Yes, every individual is expendable because life itelf is self-perpetuating. But if we continue to believe in what was thought to be fact thousands of years ago and ignore what humankind has learned as fact up to the present, then all of humankind and life itself on this planet is expendable.
Hey, if everyone would just acknowledge that no one knows for sure how life started, or the origin of the universe, humankind would have a better chance for survival in the long term, considering what man has been able to achieve through the educational and scientific process.
How can mankind be so smart yet so stupid? :(
It's a stark reality. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7231
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | And I hope here ends (or rather doesn't start) any religious discussion. but on topic...
I guess every conversation needs a putz (can I say that here) and it's going to be me. Did you really expect to even get a response? Let me understand this... and I am not immune that you had reasons... but the bottom line is that after seven years I'm sure there were some expectations of you, and with basically no notice, you inform them that the last gig (that day) was your last gig? I'm surprised you got any response at all and I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to use them for a reference.
Maybe I'm a bit bent, but isn't nicer to leave a position you care about, knowing they obviously will survive without you, than to have gotten some long slobbery "we need you, please reconsider" that would make you feel guilty about following your own heart?
I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I don't mean to come across as cold, but I'm a realist. |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I don't mean to come across as cold, but I'm a realist.
we'll accept "realist" but not cold :p |
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Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | Maryanne and I have considered from time to time the possibility of moving to a warmer climate...maybe easier on the arthritis. The trouble is, as soon as you move south of the Mason-Dixon line and look at churches you're forced to deal with Southern Gospel. Can't go THERE.
All kidding aside, I'm not ashamed of my faith because of this new pastor's behavior. I'm not ashamed of my faith because of Bill's unfortunate dinner experience. Some people are just jerks...no matter what label they go by.
Please don't take the guys on this thread and lump us in with the worst examples of Christianity you've met; we're just trying to make our way through life just like everyone else.
John <>{ |
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Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | ...though I like to think the fact that we play Ovations gives us an edge. |
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Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by edensharvest:
and I still curse when I hit my toe with a hammer. Get your work up on a bench and this won't happen any more...  |
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Joined:
March 2003
Posts: 195
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | "when I hit my toe with a hammer."
Well.. Heck...
There's your problem..
You're supposed to hold the nail with your fingers!
;) |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | Maybe this calls for a song:
Dashboard Jesus
Then all I can say is accept no substitutes... |
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OT: we are expendable ... or are we?
