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February 2011
Posts: 2
Location: Stafford, UK | When I first read some of the content from memebers regarding Ovation Bowlbacks versus Wooden Boxes, of which I own a few, I was put off the site almost altogether due to the apparent inability to see any good in any form of guitar other than that based on Lyracord.
Here I was, having owned and played wooden-boxes for 47 years, standing on the brink of purchasing an Ovation and therefore seeking an informed opinion or view.
Instead I was met by sarcastic bigotry suggesting that asking guidance of such sort was asking for disdain.
Owning wooden boxes from Martin, Lowden, Taylor and Larrivee I can give cosidered views of the plus and minus points of features and benefits of different manufacturers, styles and of course the question of tone-woods.
Despite my considerable investment in this particular form of construction I would never have possessed the arrogance to proclaim that only one manufacturer represented the ultimate in constructure of wooden-boxes or that wooden boxes were superior to bowl-back and that is why I was saddened by the initial response to my first post: withe the one exception.
Anyway, I listened to the thoughtful post regarding whether to buy an Ovation Elite LX and went ahead and bought it. So, for the record and having played the bowl-back for just a week-end, I will now give you a considered view between my new Ovation Elite LX and my several wooden-boxes, the most expensive approaching £5000.00, I am totally amazed at the tonality and playability of the Ovation. The electrics are not as convincing as on one or wo of my wooden-boxes when recording into Pro-Tools 9.0, but are as good as or slightly better when playing live via my AER 60watt Acoustic Amplifier in terms of resisting feed-back.
The only negative is that the Ovation tends to be less stable when in use on my lap.
In conclusion though I will give you what I found missing in response to the initial response to my first post, despite having invested big-bucks in wooden-boxes, I have invested in an Ovation guitar which in most cases is at least equal to the acoustic tone as observed and valued by myself delivered by any of the wooden-boxes in my collection.
My Ovation may not be an ADAMAS or a CUSTOM by I am wholly delighted by my new, but 2nd hand, Ovation guitar and I can only describe my pleasure at the purchase as extensive. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I am Glad to hear that you are Glad with what you Hear.
I am the one who responded first to your original post by stating "This is the Ovation FAN Club"...
Thereby implying the many readers and posters here Love their Ovation guitars.
If that is bigoted disdain, I am sorry.
I didn't tell you that $5,000 for a wood-box is a total waste of money and you were suckered by advertising.
That would be bordering on Disdain.
Like I said, I am Happy that you like your Ovation.
But if you somehow wanna hurt someone's feelings... Get over it. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ok you two.. now what do you think the 1000 new people that have read this so far are going to think? Yes, since this posting over 1000 new people have read the two comments, that's how much traffic we get. It's a hypothetical, not need to really answer....
Wirewalker... welcome. Glad you found a nice Ovation and thanks for taking the time to compare them to your many wood box guitars. You'll be right at home here as many own all kinds of guitars.
I am curious what sort of setup you used for the plugged-in test as your results do not surprise me. Very few engineers know what to do with an Ovation when it's plugged in as the natural tone of the guitar is totally different than a wood guitar. If your amp was set up for how you like your other acoustics plugged in, and you just plugged in the Ovation, I'm surprised it sounds as good as you say it does so you might want to revisit that test.
The main difference between most Ovation (not all) and most wood guitars (not all) is Ovation's focus has been on even, "full range" tone all the up'n down the neck. Wood guitars tend to lean toward more mid-range. Sometimes it's a case of them primarily producing mid-range and very little really high highs or really low lows. If they do have a fuller range, it seems to be slated to either the low-end of the high-end but not both. Ovation's tend to be about even from low lows, to high highs.
The first you'll see an engineer do that is unfamiliar with Ovations, is yank down the mid-range so the "acoustic guitar" doesn't punch so much. Well, if it's an Ovation, they just sucked the life out of the signal and when they compensate with volume, they're just pushing lows and highs so it sounds super thin.
To make a long story short... for a quick test, run all of your eq's on both the pre-amp and amps flat and compare. Else, take the time to optimize settings for your guitars to see which you can get the best out of.
My whole reason for this post is that I have not found a pre-amp on par with Ovation for any recording. Oh sure, there are some great sounding pre-amps out there, but I try to reproduce the sound of the guitar. I don't want to hear the sound of a pre-amp. It's like playing an Acoustic through an SWR California Blonde. Its gonna sound fantastic... it's not going to sound like the guitar that's plugged into it, but it's going to sound great. With the Ovation pre-amp, it's going to sound like the guitar it's in. So again... if you were EQ'ing the same as you do for your wood guitars.. it's not going to sound very good for an Ovation.
Just some brain snacks..
Miles |
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Joined:
January 2011
Posts: 12
Location: S Derbys,England. | You might like to look at my view re stabilizing your Ovation on your knee with the 'Standing Ovation' device.As a player of fretted acoustic instruments since '68,I'll steer clear of waxing lyrical on Lyrachord vs wood.I love my gtrs from Ovation/Adamas along with ALL of my Gibsons Guilds Gretschs Martins etc etc.Cheers,Nick. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | total crap.
I own a couple of Martins takamines guilds epiphones and a very high end archtop that are all wood. Yes I use my adamas to play out but that does not mean people here do not appreciate other brands except maybe trailer |
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Joined:
January 2011
Posts: 12
Location: S Derbys,England. | Pretty well what I said but with added/unnecessary profanity.Am ok with poorly-expressed views tho[I heard enough as a coalminer and mental health nurse.Never engage in a public argument with a fool tho-bystanders may not know who's who.A recording made in uncharted waters for me[picked/strummed w/full set of picks]often elicits favourable reaction from listeners eg 'nice wooden guitar sound'.It was recorded acoustically halfway down a noisy room onto minidisc and featured my Adamas Millenium Edition.Regards,Nick. |
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Posts: 3969
| Nice. Walk into a stranger's house and piss all over his furniture. I must've missed that chapter in "How to Win Friends and Influence People". |
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January 2011
Posts: 12
Location: S Derbys,England. | Just wanted to participate in an open forum without folks using dismissive/disdainful language.Didn't realise that I'd have to pay the tribute of deference to guys who OWNED the site?.I've done some things that I'm not proud of(including a spell you know where-yes there--and met some REALLY hard cases within-most of whom were amazingly polite!)but I didn't INTRODUCE the words that have taken a friendly conversation to another place.Surely no-one wants what seems to be a pretty decent resource to become like one of the left-wing groupings lampooned by Python?!.At 58 I've got a fair few friends in the real world(many I've known since schooldays).At 18(weak opinions strongly-held--now hopefully the reverse)I might have been concerned about(hopefully temporarily)ruffling the feathers of those who rudely interject--but such fears get old.I'm relatively new to the www,but is this the quality of argument and language on here(ok it's REALLY crass on some other sites)?.In fact one gets the feeling on some musos' sites,y'know,that those who curse out their wife/boss would be much healthier if they told the objects of their ire to their faces!.Unless roused I much prefer fraternal discussion myself to rudeness addressed to posters gobsmacked that their(initially)innocuous contributions have inadvertantly raised hackles ANYWHERE.To tip the hat to Bobby the Zim probably most of us 'don't appreciate when we're liked.Anyway hearty thanks to the guy who let me in on what so-called sound engineers have been doing to my Ovations for a few years,but do folks Stateside realise how expensive quality guitars(and in the past I'm pretty sure some B-stock sold as new)can be overseas?.Have whatever day you fancy having-I'll just sign out and stick to playing what working 24/7 for years got for me ie my guitars/banjos/mandos etc(but not all 30 at once!)as opposed to discussing 'em. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | I'm trying to figure out what this guy did wrong.... |
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December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I'm probably just fanning the flames (and speaking of flames lets keep them to a minimum)... but as I was saying... I got a little giggle when I read "often elicits favourable reaction from listeners eg 'nice wooden guitar sound." To many, including many Ovation owners, being told your guitar has a "nice wooden guitar sound" or "sounds almost like a wood guitar" might be a compliment. However, to many of us that would not be the desired comment at all. Maybe because I play electric more than acoustic.
As they say... a picture (or video in this case) is worth 1000 words..
I found this Video on YouTube.. It compares an Adamas and a Martin D28. What I find interesting is the point of the video was supposed to be how great the D28 sounded.. And it does sound great, but all it does for me is convince me I have no desire to ever own a D28. To me, the Adamas is the better sounding guitar, hands down.
I opened the clip in two windows so I could bounce back' forth between them easily and compare the two examples... and to me the Martin has a slightly wood or nasal tone and is a bit more jangly. It sounds like a traditional wood guitar. As they say "great, if you like that sort of thing."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acs6t48Zb98
Anyway, I thought it was a nice comparison of two great guitars. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | I am just trying to figure out what his problem is...
but I gave up on amateur psychology.
one more rant that mentions me in vane and vacation time |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ok.. this is just too funny... and I guess makes my point... Just six months after uploading the above video... he uploads round #2 and he is SELLING the Martin. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i9fDZbso5I |
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January 2011
Posts: 12
Location: S Derbys,England. | To tell the truth(now we've had the elavated/diminished craic),I only own one Martin(a '49 5-18 that I plan on high-stringing but a tone below)and prefer(what,until the '20k made per annum'era in the '70s was admittedly far less of a 'factory-handmade' product)--Gibsons.I'd put my '90s(ok Indian Rosewood & with a ridiculously small bridge)Adv Jumbo against many recent Nazareth d/noughts I've seen.With the UK vying with the US as a dumping ground for inexpensive Ovation copies,I think the 'wooden sound' guy meant it as a compliment!.I can conversationally skirt around the edges of Mr Burnette's involvement in the AJ reissue/it's forward-shifted bracing or luthier problems in extracting bridge plates from '70s double-x bat-bridge J200s(I REALLY need to get out more)as well as 'too much lacquer/wood on MIJ Gretsch 400s to Ibanez 529 Mandos,but you fellers(ALL of you)seem to be a mine(as opposed to a minefield)of information on all things Kaman,and more power to your collective elbow.Cheers,Nick. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12754
Location: Boise, Idaho | I was going to say Al should lighten up, but it's Paczki Day, so enjoy today and start lightening up tomorrow, Al and all others of similar ancestry. |
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January 2011
Posts: 12
Location: S Derbys,England. | Not really a 'double-blind' clinical trials sorta guy is he,that suspension-bridge supports wrestlin' feller(prefer lighter-gauge strings meself)doing the Adamas/Martin sound test on the Tube??.The 2 gtrs aren't even tuned similarly.You can take the boy outta the coalmine but sadly not vice versa.Had occasion to see my GP recently who announced he'd settled on a diagnosis for me.He told me that I was an agnostic dyslexic insomniac.I replied that,strangely enough,I HAD been burning the midnight oil a fair bit recently wondering if there really was a dog. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | find a new translation program |
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December 2006
Posts: 6994
Location: Jet City | Maybe if we scramble the words up some it will make more sense....
You can take the Tube??.The 2 gtrs aren't even tuned similarly.You can take the boy outta the midnight oil a fair bit recently who announced he'd settled on a diagnostic dyslexic insomniac.I replied that,strangely enough,I HAD been burning the midnight oil a fair bit recently who announced he'd settled on a diagnosis for me.He told me that I was a dog. Not really a 'double-blind' clinical trials sorta guy is he,that suspension-bridge supports wrestlin' feller(prefer lighter-gauge strings meself) |
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Joined:
January 2011
Posts: 12
Location: S Derbys,England. | Apologies are in order I think since I did some research.You fellers do(kinda)own the site or were around at its inception.at least meanderings led me to a quite breathtaking vocal performance re a song about Camden(J Rodgers' last recordings made there?)with obviously heartfelt lyrics and a beautiful CLEAN-sounding understated guitar/vocal delivery to boot.Well-- a genuine compliment's GOT to be a much better way to butt out than smartass ripostes such as 'if you see Kay-tell her this from me'. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | ok done |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Ya'll having fun here? |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Doesn't seem like it.
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but for my 2 cents.... I'm about a Ovation-centric as you can get yet I've played a good number of "wood boxes" that I can really appreciate. |
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Joined:
January 2011
Posts: 344
Location: Italia, Zianigo di Mirano (Venezia) | ....mr,Ovation said before :...the point of the video was supposed to be how great the D28 sounded.. And it does sound great, but all it does for me is convince me I have no desire to ever own a D28. To me, the Adamas (the CL 1719 30 th,for me) is the better sounding guitar, hands down......,clear concept:
I'm totally agree, these words are perfect for me .... there are so many guitars in the world, perhaps better, but who loves the Ovation (and Adamas), is part of something that, I don't know,it can be defined "family"?or league....... |
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I Take It All Back About Wooden Boxes
