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| Damn!!!!! where is Ovation?
2004 Guitar Players' Choice Awards |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I would not get too upset. These "surveys" are for the most part self-serving and meant to sell magazines. Put "CF Martin Guitar of The Year" on the cover and you'll attract a hell of a lot of Martin owners. Everyone wants to read how "their" guitar is the best. And let's face it, Martin owners outnumber us big-time. Plus, who exactly is taking the so-called "survey". It's the same as those Motortrend "Car Of The Year" awards. New Chevy Malibu - car of ghe year. Yeah, right. Two pieces of Germany's finest sitting in my garage indicate otherwise.
Anyway, back to the "survey". As I look at it more, I actually don't disagree completely. Here's my take:
Over $1000 Acoustic - AG picks CF Martin. No disagreement from me.
Under $1000 Acoustic - AG picks CF Martin. This is tough because of the huge numbers of guitars. Maybe "Best Guitar For The Money" would be a better catagory. The Martin D16 and Taylor Big Baby are good buys in my book.
Nylon - AG picks Godin. I don't know nylons unless they are attached to a good looking womans legs. Ovation does not compete in this segment.
12 String - AG picks Taylor. I've never actually played a Taylor 12-string, so I can't comment. A lot of people use them and it can't be because they suck. I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Taylor. Ovation would not be considered because it's not acoustic.
Acoustic Electric - AG picks Taylor. THIS is the one to hit the shitbox about. No way Ovation should not get first place here, or at least get mentioned. This upsets me. Ovation makes the best pickups, pre-amps, and playability guitars for live work.
Can you imagine how the course of history would have been changed if Clapton had played an Ovation on his Layla un-plugged MTV/DVD/Tour/TV Special/CD Cover ???? Is anyone awake at AR ????
Dave |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Acoustic Guitar magazine hates Ovation, as do most of its readership, so why is this a surprise????
Taylor 12-strings are very good in my experience, a very close second to Ovation. Putting Martin 12-strings above Ovation is laughable, it just proves that no one actually bothered to compare them. I've played several Martin 12-strings in various shops and I don't waste my time with them anymore.
They should just call these the Players' Choice All-Wood Guitar awards and be done with it.
Roger |
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Posts: 365
Location: NC | Just keep picking guys and gals........I look at it this way.............if you have an Oasis that provides plenty of pleasure, do you want to share it with other who will pillage it? I think of Ovation the same way, hope they sell enough to keep going and we keep a small circle of good people. Just my two cents!
As for the Malibu........I will keep my Toyota, never in the shop and will run for 400,000 miles!
Merry Christmas..........man it's cold here.....6 dgrees with a -10 wid chill and snow! Looks like Christmas to me! :D |
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Location: NJ | I don't particularly know if Acoustic Magazine hates Ovation or Adamas. I have met Teja and spoke to him several times, he seems like a good person.
As for the readership there is absolutely a bias agains Ovation/Adamas.
I agree putting Martin on the cover sells mags. |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Al, saying that Acoustic Guitar magazine "hates" Ovation may be putting it a little too strongly....but they sure don't cut Ovation any breaks when it comes to reviews, or even allowing them to be reviewed. Witness the Legend LX review against the other acoustic-electrics last year. It was damned with faint praise, and virtually ignored when it came to the summary at the end.
The story on Kaki King a couple of months ago is as much positive ink on Ovation products as I've seen since I began reading the magazine. I will admit that Adamas got a fair shake in that article.
There is no question the readers hate Ovation, that is why the poll results showed what it did.
Roger |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | An excerpt that Teja posted on the AG Board back in Sept. in the midst of an extensive round of "OvationBashing" at the time:
". . Few guitars get people as worked up as Ovations. A lot of players love them, others hate them, and a lot of people don’t really know much about them, but still decide they don’t like them. I’ll be the first to admit that Ovations don’t tend to be my first choice for my own kind of music. However, there have also been some very memorable Ovation guitars that I’ve played. One of Charles Kaman’s Adamas prototypes that I got to play at the factory once still ranks as one of the coolest guitars I’ve come across. Likewise, I had a lot of fun with one of their Long Neck models recently, and that’s a guitar I really wouldn’t mind being able to take to a gig every now and then.
Like it or not, Ovations are chosen by a lot of great players. None of these folks get rich of their choice of guitars, so there must be other reasons. I recently interviewed Kaki King, and she mentioned how no other guitars hold their tone as well as her Adamas when tuned low. She loves the neck on her guitar, and she also gets really good tone with the (stock) onboard electronics. Kaki’s also been using a very nice Lowden O10 on stage, so she certainly knows what a good wooden guitar is like, and she’s be a fool to listen to many of the people posting here about what guitar to play.
Another argument I hear a lot when it comes to putting down Ovations is that they’re too mass produced. I’ve been to the factory three or four times now, and every time, I’m amazed how much more “down-home” the place is compared to say, Martin or Taylor. Actual production numbers for US-made models support this, as they’re quite a bit lower than the other two companies mentioned. The fact that the backs are pre-made doesn’t change the fact that an incredible amount of hand-work goes into these instruments, and the folks working on them are as into luthiery and guitars as anyone.
In any case, if you have some actual experience with Ovation, by all means, post about it, but this is not the place to come in order to slam a maker just because it’s fun . . . ." |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | He was probably tuned out and ignored in what is a rather astute comment. Happens to me when, as it used to be said in my profession, "He done quit preachin' and gone to meddlin'!" |
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Posts: 365
Location: NC | Paul post one more time so your posting number is no longer 666..........I am not superstitious but better be safe than sorry...LOL! :D |
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Posts: 1180
Location: Vermont USA | Ya I'm the one who made the mistake of asking about Ovation on that board, when I was thinking about the Elite I have. I don't think they swayed me as the guitar did all the talking, the best sound pluged and unpluged. Thats this players choice for what it's worth.
Paul
:D |
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Posts: 970
Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Its easy to get upset at Guitar Player magazine and other magazines for that matter but lets not forget one thing.For many years(90's)Ovation turned its back on the true acoustic guitar market.They decided for marketing reasons to blur the line between the korean/american guitars and also basically abandoned the non electric acoustic guitar.We all complained for years about the Ovation "plug it in" mentality and marketing.Ovation focussed on the young,cool skateboarder market where it was more important to make guitars in all the crayola colors and have neat figured tops with shallow bowls.Im not saying that this was wrong finacialy but Ovation chose to take that route.Many guitar players including some of us OFC members did not like it.We would go to the stores and see a mixture of american and korean guitars that basically looked the same and mostly if not all were super shallow bowls.Uninformed store salespeople had no idea themselves on what these models were or how to sell these guitars.People left stores with a bad Ovation experience not fully understanding them .Well, if we the Ovation fans did not like this how do you think the other traditional wood guitar players felt about the Ovation guitars.If it wasnt enough that guitar players already hated Ovations from the 60's thru 80's now they had even more reason to hate the newer ones with toneless SS bowls.So, Ovation now has to convence the whole guitar world that they are an acoustic guitar that sounds great unplugged.I know with the new offerings recently of the slothead reissue,adamas 1 reissue they are addressing these issues but they have a long uphill climb to make up for the 90's marketing strategy.
So, it does not suprise me in the least that Ovation did not get any recognition in the awards handed out.They are still trying to dig out of a hole they made themselves.maybe in a few years with their new offerings they can turn things around and earn respect.It will all come down to acoustic tone. |
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Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Stop the presses... raise the flag. I agree with Sam!!!!
only to add...
There is nothing wrong with good 'ol Yankee Ingenuity. I grew up with it and believe in it myself. Basically "make the best product you can for the least amount of money." This is a balance between production quality and production cost. Ovation did this, and did it well, but then started leaning toward the "sell it for the least amount of money" which is the production cost vs profit model. At some point I think they even went the route of producion numbers vs production cost which means instead of building 100 great widgets at $1000 (just a number) a piece they make 1000 really good widgets for $200 each. This is what I call the "sell as many units as possible to look impressive" model which I do not like at all.
In recent years, especially after having been to the Factory, and seeing, playing and hearing guitars like the Adamas I, and Slothead, how could a company not only keep moving away from thier own "holy grail" but discontinue previous models for lesser models on a consistant basis.
I am so glad to see these new models in '05. Re-releasing the flagship and benchmark instruments that were initially responsible for getting them on the map is long overdue. Adding new technology to traditional craftsmanship is also getting back to the Yankee Ingenuity that Ovation used to stand for.
Hat's off to those that made it happen, it's about damn time!!! |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I agree with Sam also. He's dead on about the cause of the dislike for Ovations. And Miles is right that it's about time for Ovation to go on the offensive....
Forward....into the past! (innovation....)
Roger |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Since miles agrees with me i want to change my opinion..Forget everything i said!!! |
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Location: SoCal | One thing that needs to be pointed out (and I do agree with everything that Sam and Miles said), is that Ovation is not a stand alone company. They have to answer to the larger corporate entity, Kaman. There are times, in that situation, when you are forced to adopt a strategy that you don't like in order to please the bottom line bean counters.
Did Ovation go in a bad direction in the 90's? Yeah. Do I assign all the blame to Ovation? No, not all. It's not always easy and/or satisfying to work for a large corporation. That's a big reason I'm self employed.
Also, nobody I know would have me, but that's another story and another thread. |
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Location: NJ | I honestly hope that when they recreate #47, they do it VERBATIM and leave as a strictly ACOUSTIC guitar.
These guitars were designed/created/tuned to be ToneMONSTERS!!
An ulra-efficient device for converting guitar-string physics into breathtaking guitar tones.
They possess EVERYTHING that the Martin/Taylor Snobs have long touted that Ovations "lack" . . . and THEN some.
If there was to be a guitar to shut them the f@&% up, . . THIS is the one!
If you're looking for something to "plug in" (even just occasionally), select one of the other upcoming releases . . . . |
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Location: SoCal | How much difference can the p/u and preamp make in the overall acoustic sound?
If that little box makes that much difference then maybe the solution for those of us that want to plug in is to use the straight thru p/u that was used on the FD14. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Don't get me wrong, I'm not even going as far as commenting on if the past practices were right or wrong, or even if todays offerings and approach are right or wrong. I'm sure there were good reasons for doing or not doing what they have been doing.
I am just selfishly glad that they have seemingly chosen to get back to their roots. Who knows, maybe if they had done things differently they wouldn't even be here today, one can never know for sure. I know in my own little way I have made mistakes, but many of those same mistakes put me in position to do some things I am proud of or at least were successful at today.
The majority of comments I hear from the non-Ovation crowd are "they used to make" and either insert "good sound", or "well made" or whatever as the description. The other is "they slip off my leg." All of the other comments like made of plastic and such can be defended with education, but now, we can even respond to the most basic comments. The reviewes next year should be interesting. |
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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Amen Sam, you got it right. But Sam, Ovation does make the MOB. :D |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | There is a noticable difference acoustically. It's not so much box as it is the bigger Saddle which has the pickup in it. More weight and it's a different shape and there's silicone (soft rubbery stuff) on the inside. Also the softer saddle material vs a bone acoustic saddle. This is why I had the bone saddles machined for the A/E pickups. It's harded and gets closer to the all acoustic acoustic sound. |
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Location: SoCal | Interesting. Then I guess the question becomes, how do we talk O into machine bone saddles like the ones Bill just discussed? |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | I, too, agree with Sam. I don't want to get into my opinion of O's management, but there is a reason why there has been a huge loss of respect while Taylor's stock has skyrocketed. And I am one of the guys who keeps scratching my head over the latter.
One explanation is that Taylor prices -- new and resale -- are so high that people who spend that kind of money are obligated to try to keep up appearances. ;) I have owned well over a dozen different Taylors from 400 through 800 series guitars and have yet to play one that I thought justified the price even if it was a decent guitar. (The lead player in my worship band spent $1500 on a new Taylor in search of a guitar that would sound as good in our mix as my Custom Legend #1869 that I got for $400.) |
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Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Going back to miles and PI's thoughts
I agree and also dont think that it was completely wrong for Ovation to do what it did marketing wise in the 90's.In fact if Ovation had not gone overseas and built the celebrity deluxe and a few other models they may not have survived as a company period! I dont know this for a fact but the USA sales alone would not have made enough money to keep Ovations doors open.The seagulls,Taylors,Larivees,martins,tacoma's made a big jump in the market especially in the entry level guitars so Ovation had to do what it did to survive.In fact im sure the korean Ovation market kept the Ct. doors open..This however had consequences to Ovations already troubled acoustic past,which we spoke of earlier..
So, in doing what they did in the 90's right or wrong,it allowed them to be in the position to be here today to reissue such classic models as the slothead adamas,Custom legend reissue,etc..
The reissues that are going to offered are probably a direct influence of the OFC club im guessing.I dont think Ovation in its wildest dreams a few years ago ever imagined that they would be retooling to build these extinct dinosaurs.I hope that they are a huge success and hope that people step up and buy them or we will never be listened to ever again.In other words be careful what you wish for because you may have to reach in your pocket and come up with $5000.
So, as i ramble aimlessly here i want to close with i hope Ovation would someday add a model that has wooden back(round or traditional)and the adamas style top with epalettes.I have always wondered what it would sound like.AAA spruce top,rosewood back and sides,carved headstock and bridge.An all wood adamas.I think rainsong is doing something like this now..Ovation could offer a model like this to directly compete with the Martins and Taylors of the world and would probably sound great..OK,now i will shut up!! |
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Location: SoCal | I've been on this board since almost the beginning and haven't bought a new Ovation since I bought Big Blue in 1996, and even then, only spent $1750 on it.
I've put my name in for an OFC guitar and am willing to come up with $5k for it (let's see... sell each kid for $2k and the dogs for $500 total... then send my wife to walk the streets...... well, somehow, it's going to happen).
I'm pleased with what the company is doing and not only want to show my support, but am planning on spending more on one guitar than I probably have in 10 of my guitars combined.
But again, I'm not certain that all of the blame for what Ovation became in the 90's can be laid directly at Ovation's feet. It's tough when you're told by corporate that you have to do certain numbers. The bottom line for corporate is what's important and if you can't do better than what they could get by liquidating the company and putting the cash in the bank... well, doors will close.
When I was in the corporate world, I understood this. What I couldn't understand is why they kept talking about the french word for king (ROI). Oh well.. |
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| Now I feel much better! Thanks guys! |
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2004 Guitar Players' Choice Awards
